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Diancie
- Thread starter TheEnder
- Start date
the basic offensive set should be the first or at least second one listed, as it's probably the most consistently effective and threatening variants of mega diancie. discuss the costs of running hp fire over ep (ie major things you lose from not running ep especially the lowered damage output on metagross and jirachi) and mention something about easily getting through skarmory as well as losing the speed tie with other 110s, which is pretty big. mention that ep hits gross and rachi on that set as well. mention how protect can be used to scout scarf landorus-t and give you a free hit if it u-turns and how it can be used to mess with mega lopunny, letting you beat it from full health as lopunny needs the damage from fake out to kill with hjk and at the least causing mindgames that discourage mega lopunny from firing off a strong hjk.
max attack is a really cool option for the basic offensive set that you should mention, especially with spikes support as it has a chance (30.5%) to 2hko chansey after rocks with diamond storm and always 2hkoes with sr + 1 layer spikes up. you can get the same effect with tspikes support from the likes of alge/tenta, whatever, but that little bit of extra damage secures the 2hko and can undoubtedly be useful because it actually lets diancie break stall kinda well. i guess you can throw sharpen in oo cause it kind of achieves the same purpose though i wouldn't generally recommend it.
rp needs a naive mention somewhere because it's still a perfectly fine option for teams that are weak to threats like keldeo, landorus-i, and garchomp, allowing diancie to outspeed them once mega evolved. cm should have ancient power slashed with psyshock because you don't beat any talon with roost (ie all of them) without it.
checks and counters is kinda bare, you need some more mons. stuff like mgross (espec with bullet punch), scarf landorus-t, azumarill (espec av), balloon tran w/ flash cannon or ep, spdef and balloon drill, mvenu, amoonguss, hippo with a lot of sdef (252/32+/224 being the bare minimum here), celebi with at least 252 hp/196 sdef (neutral nature) or just standard spdef, spdef alomomola, spdef mew, and av tang are some examples of mons worth mentioning. iron head skarm is also an ok team-specific tech that deals with most diancie pretty well.
implement this stuff and i'll approve.
max attack is a really cool option for the basic offensive set that you should mention, especially with spikes support as it has a chance (30.5%) to 2hko chansey after rocks with diamond storm and always 2hkoes with sr + 1 layer spikes up. you can get the same effect with tspikes support from the likes of alge/tenta, whatever, but that little bit of extra damage secures the 2hko and can undoubtedly be useful because it actually lets diancie break stall kinda well. i guess you can throw sharpen in oo cause it kind of achieves the same purpose though i wouldn't generally recommend it.
rp needs a naive mention somewhere because it's still a perfectly fine option for teams that are weak to threats like keldeo, landorus-i, and garchomp, allowing diancie to outspeed them once mega evolved. cm should have ancient power slashed with psyshock because you don't beat any talon with roost (ie all of them) without it.
checks and counters is kinda bare, you need some more mons. stuff like mgross (espec with bullet punch), scarf landorus-t, azumarill (espec av), balloon tran w/ flash cannon or ep, spdef and balloon drill, mvenu, amoonguss, hippo with a lot of sdef (252/32+/224 being the bare minimum here), celebi with at least 252 hp/196 sdef (neutral nature) or just standard spdef, spdef alomomola, spdef mew, and av tang are some examples of mons worth mentioning. iron head skarm is also an ok team-specific tech that deals with most diancie pretty well.
implement this stuff and i'll approve.
I would change the part where you said it can come in easily on Flying-type attacks and mention in the overview that its awful HP completely negates its bulk.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 114-135 (47.3 - 56%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 153-181 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
That's not "coming in easy", unfortunately.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 114-135 (47.3 - 56%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 153-181 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO
That's not "coming in easy", unfortunately.
I think so too. It would be better to say, "Diancie checks flying types such as Talonflame, Pinsir, and Staraptor."
did
I'd remove the OO mention of Double Dance it needs the coverage in order to be effective first and foremost. Sharpen seems weird for something primarily spamming Moonblast in a lot of scenarios and hits extremely hard with Diamond Storm already for its intended targets. If anything a small mention at best. Make a mention of NP Pass Celebi under its Rock Polish set for team options and elaborate on why it's a good partner for it. QC 1/3 when you do that.
i would deslash ancient power on the cm set, hitting talon and zard-y is irrelevant when 1)they're not going to switch in to check a diancie and 2) psyshock 2hkos both after a boost. it doesn't have any notable coverage and all it's good for is fishing for boosts, though someone can feel free to correct me on that. also to avoid any cases of overlap between the cm and rp sets, i think it would be better to at least give a mention of the two set up moves in the moves section of their respective analyses, but not slash them. that way their isn't any confusion if people might think double dance is just as viable as regular rp or cm. give a mention of substitute in oo, idk seems a lot better then sharpen lol. looks good tho, 3/3
cmd + f volcarona
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let's fix that.
from experience, one of the largest perks for using mega diancie is its ability to reflect hazards (most notably sr) while maintaining offensive pressure, which teams using volc definitely appreciate. mega diancie happens to check talonflame, heatran, and dragonite, three of volcarona's main checks, and volcarona does the same by beating scizor and ferrothorn, leaving diancie free to run earth power instead. while they share a water weak, this is something that proper teambuilding can mitigate. volc and mega diancie creates a rather potent heavy offense core, with one of them weakening common walls so the other can sweep in the end-game. just some food for thought.
also, make sure to remove any greninja mentions in the written analysis!
0 results
let's fix that.
from experience, one of the largest perks for using mega diancie is its ability to reflect hazards (most notably sr) while maintaining offensive pressure, which teams using volc definitely appreciate. mega diancie happens to check talonflame, heatran, and dragonite, three of volcarona's main checks, and volcarona does the same by beating scizor and ferrothorn, leaving diancie free to run earth power instead. while they share a water weak, this is something that proper teambuilding can mitigate. volc and mega diancie creates a rather potent heavy offense core, with one of them weakening common walls so the other can sweep in the end-game. just some food for thought.
also, make sure to remove any greninja mentions in the written analysis!
I'm actually not too sure it checks Heatran, Dragonite, or Talonflame consistently. Sure, if Mega Diancie is at full health, she'll force Talonflame out, but if she comes in on a Brave Bird, she loses anywhere from 44% to 53%. If it does over 50%, it can just do Brave Bird again and kill her. Dragonite lives Moonblast and Diamond Storm from Multiscale and OHKOs with an unboosted Earthquake. Heatran can easily run Air Balloon or Scarf + Flash Cannon to take care of Diancie, so she's certainly not a reliable check to any of them because you must scout Heatran's set in order to decide to attack (no air balloon or flash cannon) or switch out (has flash cannon or scarf).
The truth is, Diancie really can't take any attack. Her HP is very valuable to have since it's so small, and even resisted hits really wreck her. Like I said, she has a chance of getting 2HKO'd by Talonflame's Flare Blitz and Brave Bird, so I'd, again, remove that she can easily come in on Fire and Flying-type attacks.
The truth is, Diancie really can't take any attack. Her HP is very valuable to have since it's so small, and even resisted hits really wreck her. Like I said, she has a chance of getting 2HKO'd by Talonflame's Flare Blitz and Brave Bird, so I'd, again, remove that she can easily come in on Fire and Flying-type attacks.
You're thinking of countering, Diancie still checks all of them. Scarf Heatran has to be locked into Flash Cannon to win (and if it has Flash Cannon you'll know its Scarf) and Diancie won't come in on an Air Balloon one anyway, Talonflame needs to be Banded or boosted to have a chance to 2HKO while SD is forced out since it can't OHKO after Rocks, and Dragonite dies after Rocks anyway plus Band > DD.
Mention Psychic on the first set. Psychic enables you to lure Mega Venusaur who is otherwise a hard counter to Diancie and also lets you to 2HKO Physically Defensive Amoonguss, which makes it a pretty good partner for the many things which want MVenu removed such as Sub CM Keldeo, Thundurus, and BD Azumarill (particularly the latter since it lures Ferro for Diancie). It's better than Psyshock for the most part since a lot of Venusaurs run a physically defensive spread which avoids the 2HKO from it, whereas in order for Venusaur to even have a chance to not be 2HKOed by Psychic after Stealth Rock it needs to run either 252 SpD with a Bold nature or 128 SpD with a Calm nature, an amount of SpD investment which is almost never seen on it.
okay, so i did what ben gay suggested about double dance mentions. ill just include this as the 2nd check, becuase the analysis has to be written in order to get the 3rd one.
did this
did
Hi, I was messing around with the calculator earlier and was looking for a good Diancie spread, when I found out that 16 Atk Evs doesn't get the guaranteed KO on Zapdos after rocks:
16 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 282-332 (73.6 - 86.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (with 68 SpA to guarantee the Thunderbolt KO on Pinsir)
It actually needs 36 EVs for the guaranteed KO:
36 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 288-338 (75.1 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'm not sure if those 20 EVs more taken from Sp.Atk make a key difference against other mons though.
16 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 282-332 (73.6 - 86.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (with 68 SpA to guarantee the Thunderbolt KO on Pinsir)
It actually needs 36 EVs for the guaranteed KO:
36 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 288-338 (75.1 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'm not sure if those 20 EVs more taken from Sp.Atk make a key difference against other mons though.
ok. here's a few comments:
for the rock polish set, mention mons that diancie usually is safe mega evolving against (e.g.: mons choice-locked into resisted moves, heatran, talonflame, mandibuzz). this is especially important because of the lack of protect on the set. in addition, mention manaphy in the team options for the offensive and rock polish sets due to its ability to break past many of the targets that diancie would miss with whatever coverage move it uses.
qc 3/3 once this is done.