Game of Thrones [thronies rejoice! XD]

vonFiedler

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sure, the real world is that bad and things like this do happen in real life. but was the intent of this scene to be like "maybe this will make people realize marital rape is a thing and it's wrong"? i highly doubt it. it was used for shock value and to further theon's storyline and villainize ramsay.

you can't excuse the use of sexual assault in the scene because it might make some people realize that rape takes many forms, because it wasn't a scene designed to educate. the intent of the writing matters.
How do you know that? That's how I interpret the scene because I'm a book reader, and that'd be true to the book. I realize the showrunners have wavered, like, a lot, but if they get something right even on accident I'm not going to give them shit for it.
 

Solace

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How do you know that? That's how I interpret the scene because I'm a book reader, and that'd be true to the book. I realize the showrunners have wavered, like, a lot, but if they get something right even on accident I'm not going to give them shit for it.
because they've included sexual assault time and time again for no point other than to show that westerosi people are depraved. meera reed's unnecessary assault, ros's brutal murder, jaime raping cersei, etc. i'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt. if the scene wanted to show how bad marital rape is, they'd focus on sansa's reactions and not focus on theon, because the way i interpreted the scene was as another use of sexual violence to further a different male character's storyline.

i'm a book reader as well and was disturbed by the ramsay/jeyne storyline in its own context, and i don't see why the show feels the need to include this storyline over many other ones that show female empowerment vs. female victimization.
 

Jimbo

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I agree with Solace. That scene was disturbing and if anything just made me hate Theon more. When/if he finally comes around I'm not going to be super thrilled about it. More like roll my eyes because it's a long fucking time coming. Dany, Cersei, and now Sansa have all now been raped without book material dictating it... I don't think they're really trying that hard to educate in any form here.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Couple quick comments, book material did suggest that Dany was raped through the way the story was told. Given her age and the impossibility of consent it's automatic rape but that's less pertinent than her unwillingness and whatnot.

Solace quick comment on Sansa x Tyrion I'm like 90% sure that it's established in Westeros that if a wedding isn't consummated it can be annulled by any priest pretty easily (possible a lord I'm not sure). It's possible she's considered married under the seven but most lords wouldn't care too much about that, and being married in the sight of the Old Gods at Winterfell signifies that she's being married under her own lawful religion.
 

Solace

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Solace quick comment on Sansa x Tyrion I'm like 90% sure that it's established in Westeros that if a wedding isn't consummated it can be annulled by any priest pretty easily (possible a lord I'm not sure). It's possible she's considered married under the seven but most lords wouldn't care too much about that, and being married in the sight of the Old Gods at Winterfell signifies that she's being married under her own lawful religion.
even so, revealing herself as sansa stark and getting married to a bolton (who's house is loyal to the lannisters and the reason they're in winterfell in the first place is because of the lannisters) would be certain death because cersei believes that she's partly responsible for joffrey's death and wants his killer dead. it just tactically doesn't make sense for littlefinger to have arranged this situation.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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even so, revealing herself as sansa stark and getting married to a bolton (who's house is loyal to the lannisters and the reason they're in winterfell in the first place is because of the lannisters) would be certain death because cersei believes that she's partly responsible for joffrey's death and wants his killer dead. it just tactically doesn't make sense for littlefinger to have arranged this situation.
I'm not certain the Bolton's are actually loyal to the Lannisters. With the might of the north behind them they can cut off any attack from the South at the Neck and so hold only a titular allegiance to the Crown. Roose certainly won't execute the Queen in the North when she's married to his son.

Also do you remember the scene where Littlefinger was talking with Cersei and telling her that the Boltons betrayed her? He's hedging his bets here. If the South wins his reward is Warden of the North via his deal with Cersei while if the North wins he has the power of the Vale and an alliance with the restored Queen of the North (with the might of the Northmen behind her) via helping Sansa regain her familial seat. Either way he ends up with a greater power than he had before he brokered the marriage returning Sansa to Winterfell and his game is all about ascension through chaos. I won't argue that giving up his best chip in Sansa's virginity was a necessarily smart move but he's positioned to come out ahead in this no matter the outcome.
 
i dunno, if there's one thing that we know about roose bolton, it's that he's cautious as hell - i very much doubt he trusts littlefinger at all and it's an incredibly risky move for him to take in sansa, much less not alerting cersei of it when stannis is knocking on his door and he needs all the support he can get right now

littlefinger also has no reason to believe that roose isn't loyal to cersei, and given the amount of effort he put into secretly sneaking Sansa out of king's landing, it's hard to understand why he'd just hand sansa over to roose

isn't a better plan for littlefinger to head to the wall and try to win stannis baratheon's support? sansa already has the vale lords on her side so marrying a bolton is only going to weaken her claim to the north, whereas allying with the baratheons is much more likely to have the northerners and the vale lords actually rally behind them

littlefinger's plan doesn't actively work out for him in most scenarios
* if stannis and roose fight and then the lannisters come in to clean up, he loses sansa (and given how the show has portrayed him as absolutely obsessive over both catelyn and sansa, he'd probably rather avoid this)
* if stannis wins then littlefinger is actively screwed regardless of whether he's allied with the boltons or with the lannisters
* if roose bolton stays alive and ramsey bolton eventually is named warden of the north, neither sansa or littlefinger actually gain any power???

i don't see how littlefinger's plotline is beneficial to him, roose, or sansa at all. i'm not sure why they didn't just head to the wall to find stannis
 

Hipmonlee

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the intent of the writing matters.
Assuming the sort of caveats that you need on an internet forum because someone will always try to find a way to interpret a perfectly sensible statement as something preposterous by picking it apart word by word but:

The intent of the writer never matters.

Also: I started reading the first book, I am hoping the series improves as it goes along, but IMO so far, this book is not as well written as the tv show. That Sansa scene is probably an example of that (not sure, still on the first book). And things are already going fairly poorly for Jeyne Poole.. I guess that isnt about to turn around very quickly then?
 

HBK

Subtlety is my middle name
Apparently, Sophie Turner "secretly loved" being raped by Ramsey........I wasn't exactly shocked at what happened, it's consistent with Ramsey's psychopathalogical nature, but they made it more about Theon/Reek than Sansa herself. And I was, of course, disappointed that all we got to see was her upper back. One thing's certain, Littlefinger won't let anything happen to Sansa. We can only assume that he's planning to expose/implicate/coerce Cersei in some way.
 

Hipmonlee

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Littlefinger doesn't need his plots to make sense when he can travel from Winterfell to King's Landing in a single episode. If things go wrong he'll just get on his Jet-horse and fly to the Summer Isles.
He went by boat. Catelyn made the same trip in the space of an episode too.
 
i dunno, if there's one thing that we know about roose bolton, it's that he's cautious as hell - i very much doubt he trusts littlefinger at all and it's an incredibly risky move for him to take in sansa, much less not alerting cersei of it when stannis is knocking on his door and he needs all the support he can get right now
Roose still was pretty calculating in this- it was either take in a Stark to give himself more legitimacy in the North and disrupt the Lannisters or keep the situation with other Northern families the shaky way it is and keep the Lannisters where they are. Really a crapshoot either way, and given that people like House Karstark are going to be more helpful in immediately coming to aid when Stannis attacks, he chose this.

littlefinger also has no reason to believe that roose isn't loyal to cersei, and given the amount of effort he put into secretly sneaking Sansa out of king's landing, it's hard to understand why he'd just hand sansa over to roose
That's why he went to Cersei in the first place instead of blowing her off. Cersei didn't even know where he was, so she couldn't exactly punish him for not meeting her. Roose may still be loyal, but Cersei now (probably, assuming she wasn't playing dumb for Littlefinger) distrusts Roose, which is even better when you think about it. As mentioned before, Roose can only hurt Sansa so much- she's there to placate the Northerners, giving her back to the Lannisters will cause a full-scale uprising right then and there.

isn't a better plan for littlefinger to head to the wall and try to win stannis baratheon's support?
IMO, Petyr has a much better chance of convincing Cersei of one more in a looooong string of half-truths and lies than convincing Stannis to trust him and ally with him. Safer bet for him.

littlefinger's plan doesn't actively work out for him in most scenarios
* if stannis and roose fight and then the lannisters come in to clean up, he loses sansa (and given how the show has portrayed him as absolutely obsessive over both catelyn and sansa, he'd probably rather avoid this)
* if stannis wins then littlefinger is actively screwed regardless of whether he's allied with the boltons or with the lannisters
* if roose bolton stays alive and ramsey bolton eventually is named warden of the north, neither sansa or littlefinger actually gain any power???
If his gambits with Sansa and Cersei go the way it's planned:

If Stannis wins and stays, Sansa is given power (unless Jon decides to change his mind, but is unlikely) and Littlefinger gets power that way. Stannis will definitely not hurt Sansa.
If Stannis wins, but is then beaten by the Lannisters, Lannisters gain control of the North and he is rewarded for telling them to go there.
If Roose wins and stays, this is the only scenario where Littlefinger really loses, but even in Game of Thrones where evil wins 99% of the time, the Boltons being able to resist Stannis, the Lannisters, and (most likely) the other major Northern families is quite unlikely.
If Roose wins, but is then beaten by the Lannisters that he got to distrust the Boltons, same thing would happen if it was Stannis.

Plus, if the Lannisters lose, that weakens their position in the South, creating a small but noticable power vacuum that someone with the Knights of the Vale behind them would be able to fill....
 

UncleSam

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The producers state that little finger hadn't heard about ramsays nature and wouldn't have handed Sansa over if he knew. Either way I seriously doubt littlefinger would hve given Sansa up and I think this whole plot line was just one writer being like 'hey wouldn't it be cool if' and the rest just ran with it without thinking it through. I'm hoping there's a bigger plan but I doubt it.

If stannis doesn't throttle that piece of shit Ramsay (we all know he'd beat the shit out of him in a fight) then I'm probably done with this show.
 

HBK

Subtlety is my middle name
but can we talk about the return of the dire wolf too

like

dog.
Ghost, if I recall correctly. As Gilly sat there, cleaning Sam's wounds, I swear, I was like, "When are they gonna do it, if ever" and then ! Lmao

Ramsey Bolton? More like Joffrey 2.0 Though you can't blame Sansa for being unaware of what a number he did on Theon. And it was so satisfying to finally see Cersei being bitten in the ass by one of her own conniving schemes.
 
check out the hilarious graph of rotten tomatoes approval rating (via wikipedia) for each episode of season 5... oopsy daisy episode 6

 
"...and it will be a feast for crows."

AH! AH! HE SAID IT! HE DID THE THING!

EDIT: OH GOD THOSE LAST 15 MINUTES I WAS ACTUALLY SHORT OF BREATH
 
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Arcticblast

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I would have loved to comment on Tyrion and Dany, or on Theon confessing to Sansa, or on Cersei being reduced to sucking water off the floor

But then zombies.
 
who was the mystery hooded person that rowed jon's boat out of hardhome?!?!?!?!?! it looks like they were tied up when the wildling lady tossed him/her on the boat..... is it benjen?? im so intrigued........

that was episode 9 quality excitement for sure. the fact that it was only ep 8 gets me super pumped for next week
 
Drogon likes to fly around... could he possibly decide to pay the North a visit? or nah that's too soon isn't it

now THAT episode reminded me to never give up on GoT
 

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