Kabutops [QC 0/3]

[ryan]

[OVERVIEW]

• Great late-game cleaner or mid-game wallbreaker
• Really difficult to switch into because most Rock resists are Water weak
• One of the few physical Water-types in the tier
• Typing can make it difficult or easy to set up depending on the opposing team
• Not many offensive checks, but many of the best ones are common

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Aqua Jet
move 4: Waterfall / Rapid Spin
item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Swords Dance to boost
• Stone Edge for powerful STAB with good neutral coverage
• Aqua Jet to clean
• Waterfall for secondary STAB with flinch chance, which helps break bulky teams
• Rapid Spin for offensive spinner that can break bulky spinblockers
• Superpower can be used to hit Ferroseed, doesn't hit much else

Set Details
========

• Swift Swim can be used on rain or as a tool against rain
• Weak Armor can be cool for a Speed boost but makes it more difficult to set up
• Life Orb for extra power, Lum Berry for ease in setting up

Usage Tips
========

• Set up mid-game to break balanced teams or late-game to clean offensive teams
• Try to spin on Pokemon that you can force out because Kabutops isn't bulky enough to live much
• Save Kabutops for its priority when necessary, otherwise you can play more recklessly with it
• Toxic Spikes support because most of its best checks are weak to them

Team Options
========

• Healing Wish support from Mesprit or Lilligant
• Hazard weak Pokemon appreciate spin support
• Strong special attackers to pressure physical walls, esp Ferroseed and Quagsire

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Choice Band
• Knock Off
• Giga Drain to lure Quagsire
• Hidden Power Fire to lure Ferroseed
• Stealth Rock

Checks and Counters
===================

• Quagsire
• Ferroseed
• Gourgeist
• Torterra
• Fast Water resists

 

[boltsandbombers]

Only one set? I'm still under the impression that spin + 3 attacks is the best set, as it was on the XY analysis [sd is still great dont get me wrong]. I don't see why not to separate it into two sets again, with spin 3 attacks the first one and sd 3 attacks the second. I feel that the two play differently enough to be split up, but if you strongly disagree I'm willing to change my mind.

 

[ryan]

spin three attacks is trash i m h o. i don't even like spin on kabutops but i can't just not put it on the analysis.

sd three attacks is by far the best set esp since no gatr/no toad which means no gatr checks looming on every team

 

[CanadianWifier]

its literally the best rapid spinner in the tier by a mile, idk why it wouldnt get a spin set

but you're the tl so its up to you :)

 

[Ares]

Like I said on skype, it needs a 3atk spin set. Idc if it goes last but it is definitely good enough to get a set. I've seen tennis use it to success multiple times. Its pretty much this scenario, if you need to spin to bring in something on HO you can, if not you still have offensive presence and aren't useless. On top of which it gives you a rain check on HO.

Maybe test out Band I will if I remember.

 

[Punchshroom]

3 attacks + spin is fine for its own set after SD; they play substantially differently in that SD tries to break teams while Rapid Spin plays more like a hard hitting utility mon, which also means they get stopped by different mons (SD w/o spin won't contribute too much against Quag, while offensive spin doesn't really mind / care). Weak Armor 3 attacks + spin Kabutops is imho one of the best utility mons for offensive teams to have, with Weak Armor letting it check Normals and Flyings and pull off a spin easier; didn't miss Swords Dance on it one bit. Having both Waterfall and Rapid Spin on the same set boosts its consistency much more than you think.

Obviously its spinning capabilities need to be noted in Overview.

 

[honchkrow]

yea i definitely think spin 3 attacks with life orb deserves a set. Also under moves, you have "Aqua jet to clean", i would put that its a nice priority STAB move as well.

 

[Kiyo]

uh i agree with holly on this, spin 3 attacks is just mediocre imo (i'd rather use sandslash as a spinner) and SD is a huge offensive threat

 

[scorpdestroyer]

does spin need to be slashed with waterfall? I've always found waterfall to be really useful, don't think it should be given up when tops doesn't spin that well anyway

Spin + 3 attacks should be a set imo, I wouldn't use it on a team that absolutely needs hazard removal cos tops can't last long enough but sometimes spinning is nice to have against spikes stacking or TSpikes teams and the like, plus I feel spin is much more effective when you aren't trying to sd along with it. definitely put it below sd

(I'm also fine with a spin slash with sd if you don't want a separate set cos they aren't all /that/ different)

team options can probably mention rain teams as tops works well on them but they aren't mandatory

 

[Blast]

I don't like Rapid Spin Tops either but tbf that's cuz I reaaaally hate offensive hazard removers in general

Rapid Spin should probably just get a set of its own (below SD 3 atks) with SD slashed on that, I don't like cramping up SD with a Rapid Spin slash bcos SD 3 atks is just better imo

 

[Punchshroom]

Why is HP Fire even in OO when u already have Superpower in Moves? @_@

Rapid Spin slashed after SD is a perfectly fine alternative to making an entire set with very minor tweaks. SD is better but that's not to say Spin is bad, and is a valid option for users who can't find the time / be arsed to set up SD with their Tops (like me).

 

[ryan]

all waterfall does is hit torterra and flinch things. i almost never click it on sd three attacks anyways, which is why i slashed spin after it. i have used SD spin and thought it was ok. it's not super relevant though because the only spinblocker that can actually block it is small gourgeist which is faster anyways. i just ran SD spin because i wanted spin and a not-weak pokemon.

i'm going to test choice band and see if it's any good. it sounds really strong on paper because lanturn is the most common water resist in nu.

 

[marilli]

Why haven't we qc checked this yet
1/3 unless I'm missing something important

 

[Punchshroom]

It's mostly because I still don't find SD a mandatory move on the set (at least make it slashworthy), and I don't know why holly is so adverse to Waterfall being a main move when it OHKOes shit like Rhydon, Claydol, and Golurk off the bat, actually pressures Regirock, and is a reliable kill move in general (which was why everyone was on Barbaracle's case :/)

I mean hell hollywood didn't even note on Tops being the best offensive spinner in the tier wat (even if it isn't utterly magnificent at spinning it should still be noted). Only way I'm QCing this is if Rapid Spin is also slashed after SD, which by extension also makes Weak Armor a more appealing and usable choice as it doesn't need setup and can pressure foes with +1 Speed dual STABs, one of which will be a much more respectable 80 BP instead of 40.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Yeah spin 3 attacks and swords dance dont really play that differently so that can be just reflected in move slashes. I realize that you, holly, dont think that its good as an offensive spinner, but I still feel strongly that it deserves at the very least a slash on the set if you're opposed to giving spin 3 attacks its own set. I get that swords dance is super threatening, but sometimes you're never going to get an opportunity to set it up based on matchup and in such a case spin 3 attacks would be more useful, note that another use of Waterfall is that its not inaccurate.

Probably make it look like this:

name: Offensive
move 1: Swords Dance / Rapid Spin
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Aqua Jet
move 4: Waterfall / Rapid Spin
item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

Stone Edge and Jet shouldnt be slashed with anything because they're really important. Superpower also hits Poliwrath which is cool.
Thoughts?

 

[boltsandbombers]

hollywood please show progress on this in the next 48 hours, as in implementing my set or thinking of a better one to use, or I'm reassigning - Kabutops is a pretty important pokemon

 

[marilli]

uhh what

i think that set is perfectly fine and honestly i think they're kind of the same pokemon anyways except that SD Spin actually gets to OHKO things with the boosted Stone Edge. I think just mentioning in the comments about spin 3 attacks and are its upsides / downsides, and renaming the set 'offensive' or something like that would be ok as well if people really have to disagree on this.

 

[Punchshroom]

i think that set is perfectly fine and honestly i think they're kind of the same pokemon anyways except that SD Spin actually gets to OHKO things with the boosted Stone Edge. I think just mentioning in the comments about spin 3 attacks and are its upsides / downsides, and renaming the set 'offensive' or something like that would be ok as well if people really have to disagree on this.

Wait by 'that set' do you mean by holly's set or bolts's (+ my) set? As for SD + Spin, I just never really found the chance to actually set up SD since Tops is either too busy spinning or wants Waterfall to actually deal with the SR user right there (scaring out as much as you can is vital to Spin Tops's success), so I personally wouldn't put SD + Spin on a much higher pedestal than 3 attacks + Spin.

I mean let's be real we can all agree that SD + 3 attacks Tops is best but if we're gonna slash Rapid Spin somewhere, both Swords Dance and Waterfall seem equally expendable / slashable.

 

[Blast]

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