Ladder Monotype [Read post #393 for Tiering Updates]

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Oh, i understand better your point of view now!

But (because it always had a but), there is the same problem with some type against M-Zard Y (Grass, Bug, Ice), M-Pinsir (Grass, Fighting), M-Medi (Normal, Steel),...
What about this? They aren't Sandstorm dependents...
Zard Y needs to have a clear field - if stealth rocks are up, it has trouble coming in. Excadrill takes next to no damage from Stealth Rock. Furthermore, Zard y's speed tier is rather average. It functions as a wallbreaker, whereas Excadrill is not only a sweeper but has strength that is close to a wallbreaker.
Mega Medicham is strong, sure, but we're back to the issue of speed tiers - it does have a few priority attacks, but they're not all too powerful.
Mega Pinsir is a different case - strong, access to SD and great coverage, but suffers from Stealth Rock which bug may struggle to keep off the field and does rely on quick attack at times.

They may not be sandstorm dependent, but they can only hold their selective mega stones. Excadrill can hold the Life Orb, powering its attacks up even more. Also, it outspeeds everything in the meta under sandstorm, which is the issue.
 
Could someone explain why bug gets to keep genesect but grass and ice have to give up skymin and kyuwhite? I really doubt two of the worst types in this meta would become broken just because of those two pokemon.
 
Honestly, I don't have a clue.

Bug has access to a lot of other offensive Pokemon and a removal of Genesect won't affect Bug that much at all. It's wide movepool is also insanely good but again, if it gets banned then it won't make too much of a difference to it. Also, Bug doesn't really need a nerf but having the removal of Genesect certainly makes bug users think slightly more. But in truth, I really don't understand why it isn't banned.
 
Could someone explain why bug gets to keep genesect but grass and ice have to give up skymin and kyuwhite? I really doubt two of the worst types in this meta would become broken just because of those two pokemon.
Genesect should be banned but it really is not a problem as of this moment, and Skymin could sweep Water teams by itself, and any other types weak to Flying, or Grass saw a lot of trouble with Skymin. Skymin was just more ban-worthy than Genesect. I doubt I need to elucidate on Kyurem-White as, Draco Meteor hurts the world. I am also going to mention that I thought these Pokemon should of never been let into Monotype, and Genesect is by far the weakest of the three.
 
The last time I asked the room why Genesect was allowed on bug, the reason that kept popping up was so that bug had access to Ice Beam, for monos such as Dragon and Flying. That's all, though.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
Could someone explain why bug gets to keep genesect but grass and ice have to give up skymin and kyuwhite? I really doubt two of the worst types in this meta would become broken just because of those two pokemon.
The problem with Skymin and Kyu-W was that they were both rediculously metagame-breaking. Genesect is very powerful, but it's not the only viable mon on bug: An offense team might expect to have mega pinsir, scarf heracross and volcarona as well as Genesect, where all three are very powerful. Genesect is the most broken mon, and there is a very strong argument for banning it, but it's not really forcing anyone's hand. This is different to Kyurem-W and Skymin where offense teams were pretty much that mon and five support mons or death fodder. Moreover, they were immensely broken against a certain set of types, whereas Genesect is just an immensely difficult pokemon to play around for every type, more than outright destroying any particular types.

So tl;dr yeah it could probably do with a ban, but the reason it's still here is that it's far less of a problem than the other two were.
 
I have been lurking recently and been laddering with a fighting team, so excuse if my post sounds Biased

-What answer do fighting types have for M-Pinsir?

-Why Do psychics types get so many good mons? (I blame gamefreak for making so many event ones psychic) I am talking about Mew,Celebi,Jirachi,Lati@s all these are legendary,have good movesets and/or abilities and can be used by psychics

-What is preventing from making a "Uncompetitive" flying team composed of Landorus,Thundurus,Tornadus,Serene Grace Togekiss,Skarmory/Mandibuzz,And some Mega flying (Pinsir/Aerodactyl/Charizard) And ranking to the top?

-My only other gripe is landorus, as he can easily outspeed and maul almost the entire metagame, the best of all? flying types can use it

Apologies if my points sound heavily biased, but i am saying this from a fighting type perspective, where i am forced to run the same 8-9 Mons (I know i dont have a excuse when Ice Types barely got any viable options)
 
I have been lurking recently and been laddering with a fighting team, so excuse if my post sounds Biased

-What answer do fighting types have for M-Pinsir?

-Why Do psychics types get so many good mons? (I blame gamefreak for making so many event ones psychic) I am talking about Mew,Celebi,Jirachi,Lati@s all these are legendary,have good movesets and/or abilities and can be used by psychics

-What is preventing from making a "Uncompetitive" flying team composed of Landorus,Thundurus,Tornadus,Serene Grace Togekiss,Skarmory/Mandibuzz,And some Mega flying (Pinsir/Aerodactyl/Charizard) And ranking to the top?

-My only other gripe is landorus, as he can easily outspeed and maul almost the entire metagame, the best of all? flying types can use it

1. Apologies if my points sound heavily biased, but i am saying this from a fighting type perspective, where i am forced to run the same 8-9 Mons (I know i dont have a excuse when Ice Types barely got any viable options)
Fighting does have a harder time against Mega Pinsir, but the best way to beat it is to get rocks up early, and force it out with Scarf Terrakion. Bulky Cobalion is a shaky check as well if it carries Stone Edge.

+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 300-354 (77.7 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ofc Close Combat's doing a lot more, but I guess you'd have to play around it by preserving your sashes. (Thinking of Rock Tomb Breloom). Iirc, Hawlucha lives a neutral Quick Attack at full health and can KO it with Acrobatics or Sky Attack.

2. Legendary doesn't mean good, there are reasons why non legendary Pokemon such as Slowbro are used more often than mons like Celebi and Jirachi. Good Pokemon are Pokemon that can help its type cover its weakness or provide utility that it needs. (Mew = Stealth Rock, Heal Bell, Defog. Latias = Healing Wish, Defog etc)

3. Nothing, but as you climb higher up the ladder the people there are more prepared to take on "generic" Flying. In addition to that, Flying lost its best Defogger (Zapdos) making it somewhat harder to teambuild. (Pinsir isn't allowed on Flying monos btw)

4. Tbh, Landorus isn't as bad here but it is a very good Pokemon. However, people have found ways to play around it, you just have to look for them.
 
I'll answer your questions one by one.

The fighting-type has Cobalion, and Terrakion as Checks because Cobalion severely cripples, and Stone Edge.

Psychic is just a really lucky type. Not much else I can say here.

Stealth Rock can severely limit a flying teams capabilities if not played correctly, and with a team like that it would be easy enough to out play. So such teams are definitely not "noncompetitive". When you add Zapdos to the equation.

Landorus is outspeed by many pokemon, such as scarfers, and base 102 and up pokemon. Ice Shard. Landorus is a problem but not a big enough problem as, Flying nor ground can give it the perfect support it needs to devastate as it did in OU per se.
 
I'll answer your questions one by one.

The fighting-type has Cobalion, and Terrakion as Checks because Cobalion severely cripples, and Stone Edge.

Psychic is just a really lucky type. Not much else I can say here.

Stealth Rock can severely limit a flying teams capabilities if not played correctly, and with a team like that it would be easy enough to out play. So such teams are definitely not "noncompetitive". When you add Zapdos to the equation.

Landorus is outspeed by many pokemon, such as scarfers, and base 102 and up pokemon. Ice Shard. Landorus is a problem but not a big enough problem as, Flying nor ground can give it the perfect support it needs to devastate as it did in OU per se.
that would kind of explain why my team is dieing so quick after cobalion got taken out

Nothing to say here, they won the type lottery i guess

Its just i see genies everywhere, they have burned fear into my memory, especially landorus

Either i am unlucky or all landorus i see are scarfed, When i am getting my fighting types with levitate? Or ghost half,Or fairy half, hopefully sometime on the future

Lets see what happens when i tweak the team abit...
 

Freeroamer

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While everything RZL and Anttya said is perfectly true, I do feel Psychic is getting a little too good, benefiting from all the bans that have occurred recently apart from the Galladite ban(which I actually think we were a bit hasty on, but w/e). I honestly believe it's starting to become a Flying 0.2 of sorts, in that while it has a generic build, it also has enough options to keep you guessing particularly in it's huge choice of megas o.o. I honestly don't think it will be long before people are calling for some kind of Psychic nerf, as it just seems so usable compared to everything but Water atm, and has a lot of nice matchups and few bad ones which can even be better on the surface than they appear. Take Dark for example, if the opponent is running a Mega Gardevoir, I would actually say this is a pretty even matchup as they can straight up OHKO everything on your team and outspeed it, and with careful play with the likes of Victini, can pivot to get them in safely.
 
While everything RZL and Anttya said is perfectly true, I do feel Psychic is getting a little too good, benefiting from all the bans that have occurred recently apart from the Galladite ban(which I actually think we were a bit hasty on, but w/e). I honestly believe it's starting to become a Flying 0.2 of sorts, in that while it has a generic build, it also has enough options to keep you guessing particularly in it's huge choice of megas o.o. I honestly don't think it will be long before people are calling for some kind of Psychic nerf, as it just seems so usable compared to everything but Water atm, and has a lot of nice matchups and few bad ones which can even be better on the surface than they appear. Take Dark for example, if the opponent is running a Mega Gardevoir, I would actually say this is a pretty even matchup as they can straight up OHKO everything on your team and outspeed it, and with careful play with the likes of Victini, can pivot to get them in safely.
I completely agree with how psychic is becoming but if they were to try and nerf it what do you think would go? Nothing stands out. Imo it will be like the zapdos ban where they get rid of a wall. The only thing I could see going is the deoyxes forms but few teams even use them. I think it's just a good type and there is nothing to ban they work well together that's about it I wouldn't be against them doing something to help balance it out but I doubt it will happen.
 
I completely agree with how psychic is becoming but if they were to try and nerf it what do you think would go? Nothing stands out. Imo it will be like the zapdos ban where they get rid of a wall. The only thing I could see going is the deoyxes forms but few teams even use them. I think it's just a good type and there is nothing to ban they work well together that's about it I wouldn't be against them doing something to help balance it out but I doubt it will happen.
It is a very diverse type and I find it difficult to find ways to effectively balance it.

Synergy is at the core of Psychic Teams.
 
I completely agree with how psychic is becoming but if they were to try and nerf it what do you think would go? Nothing stands out. Imo it will be like the zapdos ban where they get rid of a wall. The only thing I could see going is the deoyxes forms but few teams even use them. I think it's just a good type and there is nothing to ban they work well together that's about it I wouldn't be against them doing something to help balance it out but I doubt it will happen.
The psychic-type is incredible diverse with many Pokemon easily filling the same roll as another. Thus finding a Pokemon to truly balance this type is quite an arduous task. I will state unlike the other types that were recently nerfed, Psychic is not at all limiting another type, and requires quite a bit of understanding to make a successful team as, you are not lumping 5, or 6 Pokemon together to make a perfect team. Psychic has a variety of ways to make very good teams, but they do require the user to have skill in using this type so, no one can just pick up Psychic and go, just like that. Psychic is arguably the best type to use right now but it is by no means in need of a nerf. I think due to its repertoire of good Pokemon a nerf would just be futile, and resourceful players would just find something just as effective. I will also state that it is undeserving of a nerf as, it is not, and I reiterate not, inhibiting any type insofar as a nerf would suffice.
 

scpinion

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I'm going to agree we do not need a Psychic nerf at the moment. There isn't a clear pokemon that we could ban, but more importantly I think the type will be checked as the post Zapdos, Greninja, Metagrossite meta develops. Bug is clearly on the rise and Psychic has an even matchup with every type that is at the top of the usage stats.

Psychic beats the lesser-used types by virtue of its diversity and wealth of good pokemon, not a single OP threat.
 
It is a very diverse type and I find it difficult to find ways to effectively balance it.

Synergy is at the core of Psychic Teams.
That's pretty much my point the sheer amount of mons they get to pick as well as the ballance they have make ot a great type. I am not implying to ban anything, in fact the opposite it is not broken yet. I just wanted people to ask themselves what deserves a ban. I don't think anything comes to mind and that's the point they have as you said synergy as a type can that be preserved as broken yes, and I think that's the confusion.
 

scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
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The May usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.
Turns out you can't keep those Flying users down...
RIP Water and Steel. The Matchup Tables support their drop in usage. :(

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html

I changed the organization of the stats section once again because the raw data files used to generate everything were getting a bit large. The standard pages will now only contain the previous 5 months. There is also an archive section where you can view the stats broken up by metagame period, opposed to month. Finally, a sprite gallery and metagame trends page containing all months is also in the archive section.

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!
 
Water has been confirmed Satan. 6.66% Usage.
Water is still a great type but requires much more skill to utilize as Greninja provided a lot of Coverage, irreplaceable coverage in some cases. I often find some people wanting to run water just for Greninja so, this was a huge drop but it was incoming. Also with Drizzle Politoed become almost relevant at 34% usage, any thoughts on that.

I'll also comment nice rebound Flying users. Bug seems to be very popular as it had a percentile increase of .4 which is fairly large. I thought Psychic would be more used than it was. So does anyone have any thoughts on these new statistics?
 

scpinion

Life > Monotype... unfortunately :)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Water has been confirmed Satan. 6.66% Usage.
Water is still a great type but requires much more skill to utilize as Greninja provided a lot of Coverage, irreplaceable coverage in some cases. I often find some people wanting to run water just for Greninja so, this was a huge drop but it was incoming. Also with Drizzle Politoed become almost relevant at 34% usage, any thoughts on that.

I'll also comment nice rebound Flying users. Bug seems to be very popular as it had a percentile increase of .4 which is fairly large. I thought Psychic would be more used than it was. So does anyone have any thoughts on these new statistics?
Drizzle Politoed could be skewed by the Core Challenge w/ it and Ludicolo. I have lots of thoughts on the statistics, but I'd love to hear what other people have to say first! Who knows, we may be getting another Stats Hour with DoW.
 
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Being on mobile, I am having difficulty loading the page with usage stats past Jan., what are currently the 3 least used types, and if one of them is normal, 4 least used?
 
Water has been confirmed Satan. 6.66% Usage.
Water is still a great type but requires much more skill to utilize as Greninja provided a lot of Coverage, irreplaceable coverage in some cases. I often find some people wanting to run water just for Greninja so, this was a huge drop but it was incoming. Also with Drizzle Politoed become almost relevant at 34% usage, any thoughts on that.

I'll also comment nice rebound Flying users. Bug seems to be very popular as it had a percentile increase of .4 which is fairly large. I thought Psychic would be more used than it was. So does anyone have any thoughts on these new statistics?
Fairy Usage is a lot lower than the last time I remembered :<
 
Wow, a lot of things in these stats surprised me.

First of all, ayyy @ Flying users. Way to mold to the metagame after you guys took a huge hit...really impressive. Second, seems like Ground is not as centralizing as many of us thought. Honestly, I was expecting the usage to be wayyy higher, but it's actually dropped. I don't even know what is going on with Fighting (high usage, but 5 bad/terrible matchups? really weird). Dark users also seem like they're finally adjusting, although Dragon is on the rise and Altaria is second highest mon in usage there (rip). Psychic is just Psychic. There have been many posts about that lately; it's good, but then again, it's always been good. With Bug on the rise, the usage has dropped, so I think talk of a nerf can stop.

I'd like to make a note about the type analyses / matchup tables- Ground, Flying, and Bug have NO matchups that are Bad or Terrible-- implying they have an even or good chance against every other type in the metagame. We were talking about nerfing these types with Smooth Rock ban, Zard X ban, and Genesect ban respectively, but the usage stats don't really support these bans (especially in Ground's case)...it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I think the meta should be allowed another month or two to settle before any more changes are made. There were some drastic differences between the stats these past two months, and anything could happen. It seems like there's no immediate overpowered threats to the balance. Thanks scpinion for the updates c:
 
Wow, a lot of things in these stats surprised me.

First of all, ayyy @ Flying users. Way to mold to the metagame after you guys took a huge hit...really impressive. Second, seems like Ground is not as centralizing as many of us thought. Honestly, I was expecting the usage to be wayyy higher, but it's actually dropped. I don't even know what is going on with Fighting (high usage, but 5 bad/terrible matchups? really weird). Dark users also seem like they're finally adjusting, although Dragon is on the rise and Altaria is second highest mon in usage there (rip). Psychic is just Psychic. There have been many posts about that lately; it's good, but then again, it's always been good. With Bug on the rise, the usage has dropped, so I think talk of a nerf can stop.

I'd like to make a note about the type analyses / matchup tables- Ground, Flying, and Bug have NO matchups that are Bad or Terrible-- implying they have an even or good chance against every other type in the metagame. We were talking about nerfing these types with Smooth Rock ban, Zard X ban, and Genesect ban respectively, but the usage stats don't really support these bans (especially in Ground's case)...it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I think the meta should be allowed another month or two to settle before any more changes are made. There were some drastic differences between the stats these past two months, and anything could happen. It seems like there's no immediate overpowered threats to the balance. Thanks scpinion for the updates c:
The only thing that hasn't changed are the bottom rungs of the usage statistics.

I still like Electric though :<
 
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