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252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 267-315 (61.6 - 72.7%) = 72% [mons round down]
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Blizzard vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 252-297 (58.1 - 68.5%) + 6% from hail damage = 74.5% -> 74% [comparing max rolls]
So yeah, if I did the math right blizzard + hail is slightly stronger than Refrigerate boosted Hyper Voice. Technically speaking hyper voice will end up doing max 66% in this scenario factoring in leftovers recovery and hail damage essentially cancels out lefties recovery so it would do max 68%, therefore stronger.
With this in mind, whats the reason to use Refrigerate over Snow Warning? The hail damage might be a negative to teammates that dislike the passive damage (eh almost anything dislikes it but specs aurorus is best fit on offense which doesnt care as much as defensive mons would about residual damage) and nature power I guess to avoid sucker punch, but blizzard + snow warning should definitely be main slashes imo. Quite situational in regards to the potential 2% greater damage output, but screwing over moonlight and synthesis can be game changing to help a teammate sweep.
I'll look at this after Punch's essaycomments have been implemented, obviously there is a lot to go over here.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Refrigerate Aurorus Hyper Voice vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 267-315 (61.6 - 72.7%) = 72% [mons round down]
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aurorus Blizzard vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 252-297 (58.1 - 68.5%) + 6% from hail damage = 74.5% -> 74% [comparing max rolls]
So yeah, if I did the math right blizzard + hail is slightly stronger than Refrigerate boosted Hyper Voice. Technically speaking hyper voice will end up doing max 66% in this scenario factoring in leftovers recovery and hail damage essentially cancels out lefties recovery so it would do max 68%, therefore stronger.
With this in mind, whats the reason to use Refrigerate over Snow Warning? The hail damage might be a negative to teammates that dislike the passive damage (eh almost anything dislikes it but specs aurorus is best fit on offense which doesnt care as much as defensive mons would about residual damage) and nature power I guess to avoid sucker punch, but blizzard + snow warning should definitely be main slashes imo. Quite situational in regards to the potential 2% greater damage output, but screwing over moonlight and synthesis can be game changing to help a teammate sweep.
Literally I can't agree with those changes any less. Blizzard has less PP, is weather dependent, hinders teammates, can't hit through substitutes, and is straight up weaker. On the off chance the opponent has 1 of the 3 Pokemon in NU that actually uses weather-dependent healing, it still isn't even useful: Gourgiest is non-existent + heals mainly with Leechseed +lefties anyways, Vileplume is super uncommon in ORAS post drops (it has been used a grand total of 0 times in spl) or Musharna. Musharna is the only forseeable reason as to why you'd want to use Snow Warning, and even then its pushing it, cause there are a lot better things you can use to check mushy than snow warning Aurorus.
tldr, literally 0% sold on snow warning outside of lead to break sashes, and scarf to revenge weather sweepers. Refridgerate is a fantastic ability.
Literally I can't agree with those changes any less. Blizzard has less PP, is weather dependent, hinders teammates, can't hit through substitutes, and is straight up weaker. On the off chance the opponent has 1 of the 3 Pokemon in NU that actually uses weather-dependent healing, it still isn't even useful: Gourgiest is non-existent + heals mainly with Leechseed +lefties anyways, Vileplume is super uncommon in ORAS post drops (it has been used a grand total of 0 times in spl) or Musharna. Musharna is the only forseeable reason as to why you'd want to use Snow Warning, and even then its pushing it, cause there are a lot better things you can use to check mushy than snow warning Aurorus.
tldr, literally 0% sold on snow warning outside of lead to break sashes, and scarf to revenge weather sweepers. Refridgerate is a fantastic ability.
I know I'm not always right nor do I expect everyone to agree with everything I say, but I might as well try and defend myself.
So, the arguments against Blizzard + Snow Warning are:
Less PP
Weather dependent
Hinders teammates
Cant hit through subs
"Straight up weaker"
Less PP: Are you really telling me that you'd end up clicking Hyper Voice 9 times in a game [as opposed to Blizzards 8 PP]? Because I dont see any scenario where that would be the case (if I'm wrong tell me), most of the time its between 2 and 6ish (at most) because most of the time Aurorus gets a kill or heavily dents something and then something revenge kills / forces it out due to its awful typing. Nothing super relevant with Pressure apart from Articuno, so this doesnt seem like a great negative.
Weather dependent: Why is this an issue? Snow Warning summons hail and then you can freely spam blizzard, its not like specs aurorus is staying in for more than 5 turns, and there arent any relevant pokemon that can automatically get rid of Aurorus's Hail apart from hippopotas which has no business switching in and is very uncommon, and manual weather setters like uxie and liepard take massive damage from Blizzard upon switch in [uxie is 2HKOed iirc and obviously Liepard straight up dies], and its basically they are coming in after Aurorus gets a kill, which isnt a great justification.
Hinders teammates: This is one of the more significant negatives, but like I said earlier, Specs Aurorus mainly fits on offensive teams which arent completely ruined by residual damage, unlike defensive pokemon which have to switch in and out a lot.
Cant hit through subs: Lets go over the list of potential sub users after skimming through the vr thread that having Hyper Voice would be beneficial for:
Sub Endeavor Tauros: Pretty non existant in ORAS after mega steelix is gone, but on the chance it has EQ that would deal hefty damage anyways.
Sub CM Uxie: Awful set in ORAS compared to CM 3 Attacks, but I can kinda see the merit here.
Sub Klinklang: lol it just kills you anyways
Sub 3 Attacks Malamar: This one is a pretty good reason, but RestTalk is much more common.
Sub Split Rotom: Fair one, but still not switching in obviously.
Sub SD Bouffalant: Thats fair as well.
I feel that hitting through subs just isnt beneficial enough to justify the use over Blizzard.
Straight up weaker: No its not, as I showed with the calcs Blizzard + Hail outdamages Refrigerate Hyper Voice by 2%.
if you're using aurorus on offense, it can be great to take away sun or rain too, which normally do great against offense (obviously not as relevant as the scarf set here since you're killed by grass/water attacks, but you disrupt solarbeam, resist sludge bomb, and can let your teammates outspeed the SwSw/chloro user, so it has a use). the breaking sashes/gimping musharna's recovery seem like more valid arguments to me than pp and weather dependency (although going through subs is very cool).
I know I'm not always right nor do I expect everyone to agree with everything I say, but I might as well try and defend myself.
So, the arguments against Blizzard + Snow Warning are:
Less PP
Weather dependent
Hinders teammates
Cant hit through subs
"Straight up weaker"
Less PP: Are you really telling me that you'd end up clicking Hyper Voice 9 times in a game [as opposed to Blizzards 8 PP]? Because I dont see any scenario where that would be the case (if I'm wrong tell me), most of the time its between 2 and 6ish (at most) because most of the time Aurorus gets a kill or heavily dents something and then something revenge kills / forces it out due to its awful typing. Nothing super relevant with Pressure apart from Articuno, so this doesnt seem like a great negative.
Weather dependent: Why is this an issue? Snow Warning summons hail and then you can freely spam blizzard, its not like specs aurorus is staying in for more than 5 turns, and there arent any relevant pokemon that can automatically get rid of Aurorus's Hail apart from hippopotas which has no business switching in and is very uncommon, and manual weather setters like uxie and liepard take massive damage from Blizzard upon switch in [uxie is 2HKOed iirc and obviously Liepard straight up dies], and its basically they are coming in after Aurorus gets a kill, which isnt a great justification.
Hinders teammates: This is one of the more significant negatives, but like I said earlier, Specs Aurorus mainly fits on offensive teams which arent completely ruined by residual damage, unlike defensive pokemon which have to switch in and out a lot.
Cant hit through subs: Lets go over the list of potential sub users after skimming through the vr thread that having Hyper Voice would be beneficial for:
Sub Endeavor Tauros: Pretty non existant in ORAS after mega steelix is gone, but on the chance it has EQ that would deal hefty damage anyways.
Sub CM Uxie: Awful set in ORAS compared to CM 3 Attacks, but I can kinda see the merit here.
Sub Klinklang: lol it just kills you anyways
Sub 3 Attacks Malamar: This one is a pretty good reason, but RestTalk is much more common.
Sub Split Rotom: Fair one, but still not switching in obviously.
Sub SD Bouffalant: Thats fair as well.
I feel that hitting through subs just isnt beneficial enough to justify the use over Blizzard.
Straight up weaker: No its not, as I showed with the calcs Blizzard + Hail outdamages Refrigerate Hyper Voice by 2%.
1) PP: admittedly, it's hands down the weakest point against Blizzard - but it's literally never a bad thing to have more PP. Now obviously PP rarely ever comes into play, but Blizzard would come closer to that (he's stalling me out of Blizzards) thought while playing more often than Hyper Voice would. On a side note, when playing against Hail teams which are no longer non-existent (only nearly non-existent), Having more Hyper Voices vs Articuno is helpful.
2) Out Damages: time to math.
Alright. Now, this is Choice Specs fucking Aurorus we're talking about here. It hits rather hard. There's very few Pokemon who won't be getting at the least, 2HKOd by it. and those that do avoid the 2HKO? What item do you think they're gonna have? Is that super bulky thing going to have a Life Orb? Likely not. In fact the only Pokemon who could potentially be Offensive and take 2 stab hits are Articuno, Cryogonal, and Regice, all of which are immune to Hail anyways. So it's safe to say that anything avoiding just getting nuked (by either set) will be holding Leftovers - which cancels out Hail's mythical 6% advantage it has over Hyper Voice. [In laymans terms: the Pokemon who takes a Hyper Voice gets hit 6% harder, but heals 6%. The Pokemon getting hit by Blizzard gets hit 6% weaker, but doesn't heal.]
This stands true for any Pokemon that takes around 70% or more damage, aka a clean 2HKO, from Hyper Voice. (at that high of a damage range, Hyper Voice cleanly beats out Blizzard by 6%) But, Hyper Voice sadly doesn't always outdamage Blizzard by 6%. At lower ranges it gets beaten out after Hail; but how low is too low? Aurorus has great coverage it loves to abuse against any wall that would take less than 40%~ from it's main STAB Ice move (the one we're comparing), so it's silly to compare damage ranges below about 40%. At 40% for Hyper Voice, Blizzard would be doing about 36.5% so let's round er' up and say 37%. Against any competent player, the hail damage would round down (odd HP) to 5%. This leaves us with: Blizzard does 3% less damage + 5% additional hail damage = somewhere around (depending on damage variations) a grand total of 1-2% more damage per turn, even if you use Blizzard at the minimum viable range. To say the least, this point is as powerful as the PP point - it's negligible in 99% of games.
3) Teammates: Something that isn't negligible in 99% of games is your team structure. Now obviously Aurorus doesn't restrict your teambuilding by very much if it carries Snow Warning, but it prevents you from wanting to carry your own Musharna, Vileplume, Gourgiest, Sturdy Sawk, Sturdy Magneton, Sash Vivvy, Sash Archeops, Sash anything, because if you end up forced into it at an inopportune time, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot. Obviously with Refridgerate teammates are 0% an issue. I personally don't understand handicapping yourself for a 4.091% (couldn't find 1750 cause smogon.com/stats only has lc stuff?) chance of running into a Musharna and limiting it's recovery. Wanting that Sturdy still intact on your Sawk likely happens more than 4% of battles.
4) Hitting through Subs: First two points we've debated about really both are negligible. They come into play so fucking rarely that neither can be determined "better" than the other soley from that. Hell, even the 3rd point is rather shaky, maybe you can create a great Offensive team with Snow Warning Aurorus without Sturdy, Focus Sash, or Weather-based Healing Moves. This last point, while again not a common occurrence, has nothing but positives to offer for Fridge side of the debate, and nothing to offer for the Snowy side.
I would argue that maybe, once in every 10 battles (let's ere on the side of caution here with estimates), that you bring in Aurorus on something that has a Sub up. That's 10% of the time, having Hyper Voice and Refridgerate is more beneficial. That's double as often as Snow Warning is potentially (only lasts 5 turns) able to ruin Musharna's recovery.
tl;dr: I honestly think being able to hit through subs and not have to even think about teammate conflicts is worth a lot more than you're playing off. The extra damage is negligible, the PP is negligible, so it all falls onto those last points. I really don't care if we slash Snow Warning and Blizzard afterwards on the Specs set and explain the differences in Set Details between how the abilities play, and what you can expect with them - I just refuse to allow Snow Warning to be called the "better" ability for the Specs set. It's simply not true.
spent more time on point 2 than I did on the actual analysis so far ROFL
Not going to make another full post responding to everything since I think we've both covered just about anything we could say on the matter, but I'm totally cool to compromising with slashing blizzard after hyper voice and snow warning after refrigerate. From your first post, I got the impression that you didn't want it slashed at all on the set, and I probably implied that I felt Snow Warning was completely better, so glad we can meet somewhere in the middle on this. As long as they're both slashed on the set, I'm happy with it. Not worth spending any more time on this lol, lets just move on :P
If other QC have thoughts on this, chime in.
Tag me or w/e when you finished punch's stuff and I'll give my feedback.
just slash Blizzard and Snow Warning behind Hyper Voice and Refrigerate, both have their uses. (also Specs Aurorus isn't always used on full offense btw so residual damage is definitely annoying to bulkier teammates as well as Sturdy / Sash stuff that tcw mentioned)
That's pretty much what I implied anyway when I said to slash Snow Warning and Blizzard after Refrigerate Hyper Voice; I acknowledge Refrigerate Hyper Voice is the better 'go-to' for Specs Aurorus due to its sheer consistency. Snow Warning + Blizzard yields its own benefits and disadvantages, which you can note on to justify it being secondary slash.
Also why do people say Geist is non-existant? It's by no means common but they've been popping up as of late because, you know, fuking Kabutops.
On your last point for checks and counters, make sure to note that Cryo can only beat the special Aurorus set as either stone edge or Banded Return smacks it.
Other than that, you did a pretty good job. QC 1/3
Here's a guest appearance by Aurorus in GCN's "Dino Dino Jungle" from 2003:
Anyway it's another Pokemon with a majestic cry.. (click the Aurorus)
Overview
########
Mathematically the WORST possible defensive typing.
Also rather slow cause it's not only pre-historic, it's also Frozen
Two amazing abilities that allow it to preform many different roles.
Refrigerate boosts Aurorus' Normal-type moves to frightening power, and Ice-type attacks are already rather hard to switch into in NU.
Snow Warning allows Aurorus to act as not only a fantastic weather supporter on Hail teams, but also a nice suicide lead capable of breaking focus shashes without attacking. It also cripples Pokemon such as Gourgiest, Musharna, and Vileplume, who rely on weather-based recovery moves for healing.
Has access to fantastic coverage options for both physical and special attacking sets, which makes switching into it safely very difficult.
Rather unpredictable due to how many viable sets it can run thanks to its two usable attacking stats.
Great offensive check to the ever dangerous Fletchinder.
Despite its lackluster typing, its bulky enough to take most strong neutral hits.
Hyper Voice is the most powerful STAB move Aurorus gets thanks to the Refrigerate boost. It also allows Aurorus to by-pass Substitutes due to Hyper Voice's classification as a sound move. I am a dinosaur, hear me roar.
Earth Power is fantastic coverage alongside Ice-type STAB, as it allows Aurorus to hit any Steel- or Fire-types, such as Magmortar, Klinklang, and Magneton, super effectively.
Freeze-Dry is used to hit Water-types such as Prinplup and Lanturn super effectively, and to hit Mantine 4x effectively. It is stronger than Thunderbolt due to STAB, therefore don't ever fucking use Thunderbolt.
Psychic allows Aurorus to 2HKO Hariyama after Stealth Rock, which is noteworthy as Thick Fat Hariyama is one of the most common Ice-type resists in NU.
Nature Power, which turns into Tri-Attack in battles, can be used over Hyper Voice for its 20% chance to inflict a status condition, as well as its classification as a non-attacking move, causing Sucker Punch to fail.
Remove Nature Power from moves in to OO, its only niche is to avoid sucker which isnt worth a moves mention.
If Snow Warning is the chosen ability, Blizzard becomes Aurorus' most powerful and reliable STAB move; which hits as hard as Refrigerate Hyper Voice after factoring in end-of-turn residual damage from Hail.
Set Details
========
Choice Specs are used to hit as hard as possible off the bat. Aurorus is generally used as a hit-and-run type of attacker, so being able to change moves isn't as crucial to its success.
The choice between Snow Warning and Refridgerate comes down to residual damage by the hail, PP comparison between STAB moves, and Refridgerate's ability to abuse Hyper Voice and hit through Substitutes. Refridgerate is the better choice if you dislike constant Hail damage racking up on the rest of your teammates, are worried about Blizzard's measly 8 PP running low, or enjoy being able to bypass Substitutes with Hyper Voice. However, if Aurorus' teammates don't mind the cold (as it's never bothered them anyway), Snow Warning is also viable as it disrupts weather-based healing moves such as Synthesis and Moonlight and is a pain for opposing weather teams.
EV spread allows Aurorus to switch into Stealth Rock five times, while maintaining maximum attacking power and Speed.
Aurorus doesn't need the additional Speed granted by a Timid nature because it would not outspeed anything relevant with the added Speed, and the boost of power provided by a Modest nature is extremely helpful.
Usage Tips
========
Bring it in on resisted hits such as Fletchinder and Swellow, or against Pokemon that can't do very much back such as Xatu
Proceed to click the appropriate coverage move, or just fire off a Hyper Voice if the opponent lacks Ice-type resists.
Team Options
========
Sneasel appreciates having Ice resists worn down, as it is quite fast and can easily clean up late game once Aurorus has chipped away at anything that can live an Ice-type attack.
Fighting-types in particular can smash through defensive cores with Aurorus, and especially pair well with Snow Warning Aurorus who nerfs the recovery of popular Fighting resists.
Being able to keep Stealth Rock off the field is crucial to Aurorus, as it is actually quite bulky at full HP even with no investment; however due to its hit-and-run style, losing 25% of its HP every time it switches in is very detrimental. Some viable entry hazard removers include Kabutops, Pelliper, and Prinplup.
Choice Band
########
name: Choice Band
move 1: Frustration
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Zen Headbutt
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Refrigerate
item: Choice Band
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 242 Spe
nature: Adamant
Moves
========
Frustration is the most powerful physical STAB move Aurorus gets thanks to the Refridgerate boost. It's Aurorus most powerful move, and is easily spammable as it has no drawbacks.
Earthquake is fantastic coverage alongside Ice-type STAB, as it allows Aurorus to hit any Steel- or Fire-types, such as Magmortar, Klingklang, and Magneton, super effectively. It also allows Aurorus to hit Lanturn super effectively.
Zen Headbutt allows Aurorus to 2HKO Hariyama and Poliwrath, both of which would otherwise wall it.
Stone Edge is used to hit Water-types hard such as Prinplup, with the two most popular defensive Water-types, Pelliper and Mantine, being hit super effectively. In general Stone Edge is the best neutral coverage Aurorus has for the fourth slot.
Set Details
========
Choice Band is used to hit as hard as possible off the bat. Aurorus is generally used as a hit-and-run type of attacker, so being able to change moves isn't as crucial to its success.
EV spread allows Aurorus to switch into Stealth Rock five times, while maintaining maximum attacking and Speed.
Aurorus doesn't need the additional Speed granted by a Jolly nature because it would not outspeed anything relevant with the added Speed, and the boost of power provided by an Adamant nature is extremely helpful.
Usage Tips
========
The Choice Band set plays nearly identically to the Choice Specs set; however, the two sets share very different Checks and Counters. You can use this to your advantage by luring in and disposing of problematic Ice-resists for a teammate, or by just OHKOing a Pokemon that your opponent thought was going to be safe.
Bring it in on resisted hits such as Fletchinder and Swellow, or against Pokemon that can't do very much back such as Xatu.
Proceed to click the appropriate coverage move, or just fire off a Frustration if the opponent lacks Ice-type resists.
Team Options
========
Sneasel loves having physical Ice-type resists worn down early in the game, as with its high Speed, it can easily clean up late-game if given the opportunity to set-up.
Being able to keep Stealth Rock off of the field is crucial to Aurorus, as it is actually quite bulky at full HP even with no investment; however due to its hit-and-run style, losing 25% of its HP every time it switches in is very detrimental. Some viable entry hazard removers include Kabutops, Pelliper, and Prinplup.
Stealth Rock
########
name: Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Blizzard
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Freeze-Dry / Encore
ability: Snow Warning
item: Focus Sash / Icy Rock
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
Modest should be the main nature on SR because you dont outspeed anything relevant with Timid and the power difference is noticeable. Also remove icy rock because hail teams are bad and super uncommon. OO seems like a better place.
Moves
========
Stealth Rock is very nice to have on Aurorus, as it forces plenty of switches against slower Pokemon, which gives it ample opportunities to set them up. It also gives Hail teams a Hail setter and Stealth Rock user in one slot, which is fantastic for Hail teams cramped teamslots.
With Snow Warning as the chosen ability, Blizzard becomes Aurorus' most powerful and reliable STAB move.
Freeze-Dry hits Water-types such as Mantine, Prinplup, and Pelliper super effectively, preventing them from Defogging on Aurorus.
Earth Power hits Fire- and Steel-types such as Klinklang and Mawile, who otherwise wall Aurorus' Ice STABs.
Encore can also be used effectively on the lead set, allowing Aurorus to lock opponent's Pokemon into their first move, and let Aurorus react appropriately.
Set Details
========
Snow Warning allows Aururos to beat Lead Archeops in one turn, and Crustle before it can get off a second attack barring a Custap Berry, meaning Aurorus works as a fantastic counter lead to common entry hazard leads.
Timid Nature is used to outspeed as many opposing lead Pokemon as possible, and give Aurorus an easier time against random Taunt users and shit like that.
Icy Rock is the better option if you're opting to use Aurorus as a weather setter on a Hail team, as it prolongs the Hail to a much more usable duration. However, on an offensive team where Aurorus' goal is to break through opposing leads and set up Stealth Rock, Focus Sash is much more important.
Usage Tips
========
/lead matchup/ lead.matchup{
choose_lead {aurorus};
if {opponent=crustle, archeops} then {click attack.Blizzard};
else {click attack.Stealth_Rock};
die;
}
Aurorus can OHKO lead Archeops on the first turn to limit it to one action
Freeze Dry allows it to scare away Defoggers and deter Xatu switch-ins
Team Options
========
Offensive Pokemon that appreciate both Stealth Rock and Ice-resists worn down include Sneasel, Jynx, Fletchinder, Scyther, and Artincuo.
Additonal, more general offensive teammates who appreciate early Stealth Rock include Tauros, Magmortar, Mismagius, Pyroar, Kabutops, and Pinsir.
While Aurorus matches up well against Lead hazard setters, it's still a wise idea to bring an offensive hazard remover to help support Aurorus if it's able to switch out and keep its Focus Sash intact. A fantastic example is Kabutops.
Remove modest from scarf because losing to base 110s sucks.
Moves
========
Blizzard becomes Aurorus' most powerful and reliable STAB move when using Snow Warning.
Freeze-Dry hits Water-types such as Ludicolo and Poliwrath super effectively.
Earth Power hits Fire- and Steel-types such as Klingklang and Mawile, who otherwise wall Aurorus' Ice STABs.
Stone Edge grants Aurorus the ability to OHKO Fletchinder, Cryogonal, Articuno, and Jynx, while doing considerable damage to Regice and Lapras - all Pokemon who otherwise give Aurorus trouble.
Psychic is also an option in the last slot, as it can 3HKO Hariyama, and 2HKO it after 2 rounds of Stealth Rock + Hail.
Set Details
========
244 Speeed EVs and a Timid nature is used for outspeeding base 110s such as Archeops. A Timid nature is needed to outspeed Archeops, Pyroar, Mismagius, and Scyther; however if this is unnecessary for your team, a Modest nature should be chosen otherwise, as it grants a huge boost in power.
20 Attack EVs allow Aurorus to OHKO Cryogonal, Jynx and 0 HP Articuno with Stone Edge, all of which can take on Aurorus otherwise, while still allowing Aurorus to outspeed positive natured base 110 Speed Pokemon.
Snow Warning allows Scarf Aurorus to beat weather sweepers such as Victreebel, Ludicolo, Poliwrath, and Exeggutor by replacing the current weather condition with Hail, then subsequently outspeeding them.
Usage Tips
========
1) Bring it in on a weather sweeper whom of which is currently in the process of sweeping your team.
2) click the appropriate move, or hell, maybe even predict a switch if it's that kinda game.
3) Be thankful you had this Aurorus.
(note:) this Aururos is best used for taking care of weather-based sweepers, and can not be held accountable for failing to beat boosting sweepers. - Punchshroom
Team Options
========
Fighting-types such as Sawk and Hariyama really appreciate that their common counters, Musharna and Vileplume, have their recovery cut in half during Hail. Having Hail active makes these Pokemon much easier to wear down, as they struggle to stay healthy, so try to bait them in early game to get them worn down quickly.
Aurorus can actually sweep rather easily late game once Ice-type resists are worn down. Pairing Aurorus with Pokemon such as Nasty Plot Jynx or Choice Band Sneasel can result in a late game Blizzard Sweep; however, with more than once Ice-type on the team, an entry hazard remover is a necessity.
Rock Polish
########
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Hyper Voice / Nature Power
move 3: Freeze-Dry
move 4: Earth Power
ability: Refrigerate
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Modest
Moves
========
Rock Polish attempts to remedy Aurorus' low Speed stat and give it the chance to sweep the opponents' team with Aurorus' power and coverage moves.
Hyper Voice is the most powerful STAB move Aurorus gets thanks to the Refridgerate boost. It also allows Aurorus to by-pass Substitutes due to Hyper Voice's classification as a sound move. I am a dinosaur, hear me roar.
Nature Power is also very useful on a Rock Polish set, as the lack of power is less crucial when cleaning up late game, and being able to bypass Sucker Punch from the likes of Cacturne, Kangaskhan, or Pawniard can be huge.
Earth Power is fantastic coverage alongside Ice-type STAB, as it allows Aurorus to hit any Steel- or Fire-types, such as Magmortar, Klingklang, and Magneton, super effectively.
Freeze-Dry is used to hit all Water-types super effectively, as well as Pokemon that commonly wall Aurorus such as Pelliper and Mantine 4x effectively.
Set Details
========
Life Orb and a Modest nature are used to give Aurorus as much attacking power as possible.
Refrigerate is used to abuse Hyper Voice's Substitute-bypassing properties, and greater PP than Blizzard; as well as not having Aurorus' main STAB move be weather-dependent. Hyper Voice's immediate damage is preferable to Blizzard's chip damage as Rock Polish Aurorus cannot afford to wait for Hail to claim the KOs.
An much slower, bulkier spread of 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe allows you to outspeed Sneasel and below after a Rock Polish, and grants you significantly more bulk. However, it leaves you vulnerable to Scarfed Sawk, Lilligant, and Magneton, all of which you beat with 252 Speed.
Usage Tips
========
wait until late game, try switching in against a Pokemon such as Fletchinder, Xatu, or Swellow that fails to do anything back to Aurorus.
click Rock Polish
pray to go nothing left has any priority moves barring Fake Out
try to sweep?
Team Options
========
Pokemon that buy free turns for teeammates are obviously veery helpful when trying to give Aurorus a free turn to set up. A great example is Yawn + U-turn Uxie.
Pokemon that wear down common problematic priority users such as Kabutops, Hariyama, Gurdurr, and Samurott. Garbodor does this job nicely, as Rocky Helmet plus Aftermath damage, plus the residual damage from all the entry hazards it sets up can eliminate the opponent's priority allowing Aurorus to sweep freely. Ferroseed also does an okay job at beating the non-Fighting-types, and it also handily beats Kabutops, another huge problem that Garbordor struggles to beat.
Other Options
########
Physical Rock Polish :: faces stiff competition from Shell Smashers.
Calm Mind 3 Attacks :: Too vulnerable
Sub CM :: Not enough coverage
RestoChesto CM :: Not enough coverage, too vulnerable.
Mono-Attacking RestTalk CM :: No coverage.
CM Mixed :: A great lure, but too vulnerable.
CM with just physical attacks. :: Another fantastic lure. Try this one tbh.
Just the move Calm Mind. :: Seems like a fun gimmick, but that wears off quickly when you realize that you could be sweeping if you just had an attacking move.
Toxic Orb + Facade :: actually for real a fun gimmick, but it doesnt hit that much harder than banded, and it dies too quick.
Dual Screens :: This one is simply bad, we were just trying to make Aurorus DPPt Torterra.
Just mention cm 3 attacks toxic orb facade and physical rock polish, as well as the stuff I said earlier to move into OO. Remove everything else
Checks and Counters
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**Priority**: Aurorus is weak to Aqua Jet, Mach Punch, and Bullet Punch, so it's rather easy to revenge kill even if it has already set up a Rock Polish. Common users of these moves include Gurdurr, Hariyama, Basculin, Carracosta, and Samurott.
**Faster Pokemon**: Due to Aurorus's poor defensive typing, it is not hard to revenge kill prior to setting up a Rock Polish. Pokemon such as Sawk, Ludicolo, Kangaskhan, and Samurott can all revenge kill Aurorus easily.
**Bulky Ice-type resists**: Thick Fat Hariyama only has to fear Psychic from the Specs set, and can retaliate with either a Close Combat or Bullet Punch. Offensive Articuno can switch into any of Aurorus' attackign barring Stone Edge, and can Pressure stall it out of PP. Cryogonal can shrug off any hit Aurorus throws at it, and can stall it out with Toxic and Recover. Even Assault Vest Kangaskhan can switch in, and OHKO with Drain Punch.
Also before I give QC, can we move Rock Polish into OO and move Band to the last set? Rock polish is way too easy to revenge and way to difficult to set up. Band is also much more niche than scarf and Lead SR which have actual defined niches in the meta.
Also before I give QC, can we move Rock Polish into OO and move Band to the last set? Rock polish is way too easy to revenge and way to difficult to set up. Band is also much more niche than scarf and Lead SR which have actual defined niches in the meta.
I'm reluctant to move RP to OO just because it isn't completely awful late game if you have other icy things to weaken ice resists, and hariyama (from what I've heard) is way down in usage. It's definitely the worst of the sets, which is why it's last, but I think at the very least it's viable enough to deserve a set
Band plays nearly identically to specs (which is the best set by far) and that's really the only reason I have it second. Both are viable, it just depends on what spectrum of attacker your team preferred. Hell, even Never-Melt-Ice mixed is viable (iirc thats what I saw kiyo posting about somewhere) but thats besides the point tbh. I don't have a real problem with it dropping, cause the other sets listed are also killer good; but it's literally just a re-colour if you will of the specs set, arguably as effective at punching holes cause people expect specs - which is why it's listed directly below.
reluctant to remove icy rock cause it is the best hail setter, i know holly had a decent hail team with it. Despite it being rare, it's still very useful, and a secondary slash doesnt really hurt anyone as long as it's explained in set details to only ever use icy rock if it's on a dedicated hail team.
other nature-y stuff I did, ready for your opinions.
I'm reluctant to move RP to OO just because it isn't completely awful late game if you have other icy things to weaken ice resists, and hariyama (from what I've heard) is way down in usage. It's definitely the worst of the sets, which is why it's last, but I think at the very least it's viable enough to deserve a set
Band plays nearly identically to specs (which is the best set by far) and that's really the only reason I have it second. Both are viable, it just depends on what spectrum of attacker your team preferred. Hell, even Never-Melt-Ice mixed is viable (iirc thats what I saw kiyo posting about somewhere) but thats besides the point tbh. I don't have a real problem with it dropping, cause the other sets listed are also killer good; but it's literally just a re-colour if you will of the specs set, arguably as effective at punching holes cause people expect specs - which is why it's listed directly below.
reluctant to remove icy rock cause it is the best hail setter, i know holly had a decent hail team with it. Despite it being rare, it's still very useful, and a secondary slash doesnt really hurt anyone as long as it's explained in set details to only ever use icy rock if it's on a dedicated hail team.
other nature-y stuff I did, ready for your opinions.
Keeping Icy Rock as a secondary slash is fine, even if hail teams are non-existent.
Rock Polish isnt completely awful, but thats why it should be put in OO. It definitely isnt viable enough for a set because you dont set up on anything, and even the things that you do set up on, ie fletchinder and swellow, are usually accompanied by a Kabutops anyways to R-Kill fairly easily. It also cant set up on any of the Normal types in the tier, and ice types like vanilluxe and sneasel have coverage options to beat it.
Band doesnt hit nearly hard enough to compare to Specs. We're comparing base 77 attack to base 99 SpAtk, and the difference in BP of moves isnt large at all. Even with physical rock STAB, what does that hit that Freeze Dry doesnt? It definitely doesnt punch holes as well as specs and is much more niche, and should be listed below sets like Sash SR lead and Scarf.
Keeping Icy Rock as a secondary slash is fine, even if hail teams are non-existent.
Rock Polish isnt completely awful, but thats why it should be put in OO. It definitely isnt viable enough for a set because you dont set up on anything, and even the things that you do set up on, ie fletchinder and swellow, are usually accompanied by a Kabutops anyways to R-Kill fairly easily. It also cant set up on any of the Normal types in the tier, and ice types like vanilluxe and sneasel have coverage options to beat it.
Band doesnt hit nearly hard enough to compare to Specs. We're comparing base 77 attack to base 99 SpAtk, and the difference in BP of moves isnt large at all. Even with physical rock STAB, what does that hit that Freeze Dry doesnt? It definitely doesnt punch holes as well as specs and is much more niche, and should be listed below sets like Sash SR lead and Scarf.
I'd like a few more qc opinions on rp before I completely axe it. I'm certainly not opposed as it's less writing for me, and frankly I couldn't care less, but having secondary opinions on it would be nice because so far you're the only one who's brought it up.
specifically, Montsegur, Punchshroom, Blastral, scorpdestroyer, Raseri, boltsandbombers; one of you guys :)
yeah I'm not a big fan of RP either, just seems really hard to actually sweep. Kiyo apparently likes it but screw kiyo
I agree with moving Icy Rock to OO, hail teams aren't bad but they're too niche to get full slashes imo (esp. cause unlike Hippo, Aurorus is usable even outside of full hail)
2 general things:
Update the formatting please, you know the drill :P
Remove Magneton mentions.
[Overview]
Re-order this so that Aurorus's qualities are before its negatives.
Its only useful resistances are Normal, Flying, and Ice I guess so in the line about it checking Fletchinder I'd rather it just say its a decent offensive check to flying types, most notably fletchinder.
[Specs]
[Moves]
Remove the mention of Thunderbolt, we're telling people what to use, not what not to use; Thunderbolt isnt even OO material.
Super nitpicky, but Psychic isnt a guaranteed 2HKO on 0/252 AV Hariyama after Stealth Rock [the on-site spread] although everyone creeps with base 50's so maybe reword the part about 2HKOing it. Not a huge deal tho.
Move the line about Blizzard to after Hyper Voice just to be in accordance with slashing.
[Set Details]
Add somewhere mentioning the EVs, it can be as simple as "max special attack and max speed are used to hit as hard as possible"
Timid honestly doesn't sound that bad as it outspeeds Adamant Pawniard, Adamant Barbaracle, and max spe neutral natured Sandslash and Flareon.
[Usage Tips]
Expand a bit more here, generally 3 lines is sufficient. Maybe something like "if your opponent has an offensive threat that Aurorus checks, be sure to preserve it and keep entry hazards off your side of the field", and the latter part about hazards could be its own point as well if you'd like, considering that maintaining the survivability of offensive mons is always good.
[Team Options]
I get that Sneasel is a good teammate, but to newer players it may not be clear as to why and it has pretty bad type synergy with Aurorus. Its fine to be listed but I don't think it should be first.
Give examples of Fighting types.
Add a bullet point for Pokemon that like Aurorus luring in Pokemon with its coverage moves so they can clean up later on, I'm sure you can think of some. You should also list general setup sweepers and fast late game cleaners because Aurorus wallbreaks so they can clean up later.
[Stealth Rock]
[Moves]
List examples of Fire types that Earth Power hits.
I wouldn't be opposed to mentioning Stone Edge as it whops Cryogonal that try to spin on you, and it also hits Sneasel harder I guess.
[Set Details]
Might as well mention a Timid nature here as well because without a power boosting item the +spa nature isn't as important.
[Usage Tips]
This isnt html nerd xd
Be a bit more descriptive about how it has a really good matchup versus most opposing entry hazard leads and entry hazard removers.
[Choice Scarf]
[Moves]
Remove Fletchinder as a target for Stone Edge since it cant do much back and takes min ~80% from Blizzard.
[Usage Tips]
Be clear that this set is best used as a revenge killer, since if it switches into Ludicolo as it Rain Dances Aurorus loses. [Aurorus switches in, summons hail, its removed with Rain Dance]. Note that it can also revenge a slew of other offensive mons like the ones you listed in Set Details.
[Team Options]
Add a bullet point about general offensive Pokemon (not ones you listed already obviously) because offense is the playstyle that typically struggles the most versus weather teams given that they can't really take a hit most of the time and respond.
[CB]
It's 252 Spe, not 242 :P
[Moves]
Stone Edge doesnt do much to Prinplup so remove that as a target.
[Set Details]
Do what I said earlier about specs for just simply listing the EVs and also remove bullet point 2.
[Usage Tips]
Almost sure we're not allowed to cross reference sets so remove that mention.
[Team Options]
Again, add a bullet point for Pokemon that like Aurorus luring in Pokemon with its coverage moves so they can clean up later on, I'm sure you can think of some. You should also list general setup sweepers and fast late game cleaners because Aurorus wallbreaks so they can clean up later.
[RP]
Add a bullet point in team options for wallbreakers, they soften up bulky mons so Aurorus cleans late game.
For other options, a lot of that stuff seems a bit unnecessary and I'd like you to try and condense it down a lot and think of what actually would have some practical use or purpose.
Put faster Pokemon first in C&C.
This is a lot, so tag me back or reply when this is done.
Its only useful resistances are Normal, Flying, and Ice I guess so in the line about it checking Fletchinder I'd rather it just say its a decent offensive check to flying types, most notably fletchinder.
Remove the mention of Thunderbolt, we're telling people what to use, not what not to use; Thunderbolt isnt even OO material.
Timid honestly doesn't sound that bad as it outspeeds Adamant Pawniard, Adamant Barbaracle, and max spe neutral natured Sandslash and Flareon.
Might as well mention a Timid nature here as well because without a power boosting item the +spa nature isn't as important.
Stone Edge doesnt do much to Prinplup so remove that as a target.
All the other relevent flying types beat it, specifically Archeops and Scyther, so mentioning just Fletchinder Specifically seems like the best bet.
Much like the Archeops-no-item thing, I feel lit's semi necessary to reinforce how bad of an idea thunderbolt is, otherwise un-educated readers will just think "wow, the person writing this didn't even think about thunderbolt". By mentioning that thunderbolt is infact always weaker, it shows that it was accounted for, it just sucks. Explaining why it sucks in a quick sentence isn't a terrible idea imho.
re those: no, timid is awful. with it, Aurorus doesn't even hit 300 Spa, and all the mons you listed are either irrelevant, or uncommon at the least. Modest > timid so much, it barely deserves more than a small mention inset details as to why its bad.
Stone edge is the move that does the most damage to bulky waters, and Prinplup is the only bulky water in NU that isnt weak to EQ / neutral to Ice. thats why it's mentioned, if there was another bulky water that fit that description, I'd mention it instead.
Currently in the process of doing the rest, but hockey is on so brb 3 hours, boltsandbombers. tagged so you can input on my "rebuttals" while im gone.
I'll quickly comment on the above - saying all the other relevant Flying types beat it isnt entirely true, as some Archeops don't carry EQ (bulky variants which albeit not that great still exist), it chews hits from Swellow relatively well and also decently checks Scyther. Aside from safely switching in, it still does a great job of checking most flying types in general to some degree since one of the definitions of checking something doesnt require switching in, its just getting your check a free switch in by a double / volt switch / u-turn / baton pass in order to threaten them out.
Hm, that's a valid point so I guess you /could/ mention it in OO but only to state that its awful, but not in moves for sure.
Fair enough, no need to mention Timid - not a big concern anyways.
I'll quickly comment on the above - saying all the other relevant Flying types beat it isnt entirely true, as some Archeops don't carry EQ (bulky variants which albeit not that great still exist), it chews hits from Swellow relatively well and also decently checks Scyther. Aside from safely switching in, it still does a great job of checking most flying types in general to some degree since one of the definitions of checking something doesnt require switching in, its just getting your check a free switch in by a double / volt switch / u-turn / baton pass in order to threaten them out.
Hm, that's a valid point so I guess you /could/ mention it in OO but only to state that its awful, but not in moves for sure.
Fair enough, no need to mention Timid - not a big concern anyways.
