Serious Blankism

[Holiday]

hello all. This is my first thread I've made in here, so bear with me if I'm doing something wrong (I read the rules and it said it was fine.)

For those that don't know me, I'm a pretty outgoing, upfront guy. I don't hide anything, and that includes what I look like. If you don't feel like checking through Smogon Pic album, just know I'm a Hispanic as that's the main thing. I don't mind posting selfies or having my Twitter handle on the site, as I really don't care if people see me outside of Smogon; however, something changed a few days ago.

Someone on PS! pm'd me with link of my pics from the thread and had some very creative comments including "go back to your own country alien", "fix my roof you spick" and my all time favorite "fucking tacoboy"

Of course, I thought nothing of it. Just some internet user, haters gonna hate etc etc. His comments got me thinking, though. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in this community is some pimply, pale skinned Caucasian kid. One of my favorite things about Smogon users is how diverse they are, how they stem from all walks of life. I'm positive the majority is white, and while I don't care, it's clear that there are people who are out to hurt and tear people down because they are different. This isn't just racism like the majority of this post has been, as there are many other ways to discriminate.

Small rant aside, so here's the main question: Have you ever experienced any form of racist sexist, homophobic, classist (hate bc you're rich or poor etc) or religiophobic (yes it's word I looked it up) remarks that have made you think about quitting Smogon/Made you quit Smogon, and what advice would you offer to those who experience/have experienced such?

Only other example I've gone through: I get dragged for being a Protestant all the time, not even by randoms half the time.

 

[cookie]

If people are being racist in PM you should report that to a mod.

 

[Cresselia~~]

No??
I'm part Chinese and I am really living in Hong Kong. I don't see anything.
Just never assume that your race is a problem. You don't have to think that you are different or inferior.

Also, Smogon is not PS.
I've seen the foulest Spanish comments on PS that include "fuck your mother" something like that.
(Yes, I do read Spanish)
Hispanics can be awful too. There's bad people in every race, and it's particularly obvious when it's a competitive place like PS.
It just happens. You don't have to do anything about it.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Honestly PS is so much of a cesspool in terms of this stuff. The lobby chat is unreadable for me. In game, most of these remarks tend to come after losing a match so they're trying to get under your skin to get even. Get a mod in this case. Mods do a very good job in taking care of things like this.

Luckily PS now has "Ignore Opponent" and "Ignore Spectators" for this very purpose. :)

 

[jeb4]

For the question: no.

The way I usually dealt with that kind of stuff was to fight back. I have no problems treating people with the same respect they show me, and over the years over the internetz I got pretty good at finding nerve sweetspots pretty fast. But I don't really do this anymore, since at the same time I also grew some hard skin. This blankism shit bounces off me like I'm superman now.

edit: and ironically, this thick skin is actually helping me at my job too. Professionalism: developed by getting bashed for years on the internet.

 

[doublenikesocks]

On the forums I've gotten hate before for my conservative principals, I just don't post much anymore. Never felt any forms of hate or discrimination on PS because I don't chat ever. I generally feel smogon is the exact opposite of welcoming for the most part unless you have something meaningful to contribute, such as metagame questions or ubers community advice.

My advice: tune it out, or go to a mod with evidence. I've found that the staff are generally helpful.

 

[Rugi]

Can we just make this a discrimination thread in general? It seems to specific for it just to be Smogon related.

I've never experienced much racism of any kind as I am a pale skinned caucasian kid living in Australia which is already a pretty non-racist country but I have had my experiences. My old weekend school was in a predominantly Asian area. I never cared too much or noticed anything until one of my friends told me that some guys were walking up to me and saying shit about me in Vietnamese. It lasted for a while but then a teacher overheard them and got them into trouble and I think they stopped after that. For all I know people have been insulting me all my life, I just don't know the right languages to understand them. Race, gender, nationality etc are the types of things I don't identify with so if someone insults me with any of those I don't think I would care too much anyway.

 

[Cresselia~~]

On the forums I've gotten hate before for my conservative principals, I just don't post much anymore.

I've gotten hate for my elitist point of views too.
Although I don't think it's my fault, I can choose to not post them anymore.
Things seem to go quite well after that.

 

[Sapientia]

I've never experienced any offense on PS/Smogon besides occasional nazi jokes, especially since I'm from Dachau. Compared to League or CS for example Smogon is actually a kinda nice community.
I also think that most people just want to offend you and are not really racist. Just pissed because of something and think that they can hurt you that way.

Just user DaFlo is an incredibly classist abuser. He keeps telling me that my poverty pisses him off =(

 

[Acklow]

I'm Russian. The only racism I've experienced is being called a Russian spy which is partly true so...


Real talk tho I love hanging out with people of other cultures and nationalities. It's partly the reason I want to become a teacher so that I can properly reach out to kids that come from multicultural backgrounds. :)

 

[Tressed]

So I was originally going to post something in the LGBTQ thread, but felt that it wouldn't be worth it given how I don't really have a story to go with it, and I don't like posting without having something to contribute.

I figured out I was bisexual about half a year ago, and since that discovery I've been a lot more conscious of how homophobic language is these days. It's not a conscious thing, either. I've met enough actual homophobes to tell the difference, but I find that even people who're cool with it still drop the occasional slur every once in a while. I don't mind it so much since I know they don't actually mean to insult me, but it can still be irritating. It kind of reminds me of getting poked: it doesn't hurt, but after enough times it starts really getting on your nerves.

I've actually found Smogon to be pretty decent regarding this, as far as gaming is concerned, though I suppose part of this comes down to most people having at least a little respect for each other, as well as moderator presence. More chaotic environments can get pretty bad (TF2, Hearthstone, occasionally Showdown), but I haven't really felt as though that was enough of a reason to quit.

@ v, I'm a dude and I like dudes and women. I think people who would call me a [can't use this word on forums] would say I qualify. Gay =/= Bisexual, but they're similar.

 

[faint]

Like most others have said the answer to your question is no. However, I am a white cisgender agnostic male, so ignoring the fact that my family is in the lower-middle class doesn't leave much to work with. As cookie stated you should contact a staff member on PS! (@'s, #'s, ~'s) if someone is attacking you. The same applies for instances here on the forums. There is a good chance that if you have proof of said attacks the person attacking you will be punished.

 

[jumpluff]

actually yes, the prevalent atmosphere of racism and transphobia, especially transmisogyny, made me quit smogon for good, more than anything. i literally hid my racial heritage for years on this site because i was ashamed and thought it meant the slurs on here would apply to me. they still did, i disrespected my mom and my entire childhood and history so that i could ignore my best friends' entire senses of humour rested on trite antiblackness. that was my choice but i was an isolated kid with zero support network who had just been pushed out of another pokémon site by its rampant paedophilia and i didn't want to be hated by people i looked up to (who were largely older than me). accepting misogyny was the condition for being popular here and it was degrading and miserable. most of my favourite friends from here never shit on my gender or my race, or they changed to become more accepting, or even if their beliefs sucked they understood how to be respectful when interacting with me.

but i got really really tired of this site when it became a reddit derivative and the punchline to every joke was 'check your privilege' or 'stop oppressing me i am a triggered attack helicopter otherkin' or making fun of trans people and individuals who aren't even around anymore (for the exact same reasons, fyi). i spent like my last year arguing with stupid posts here and i was able to build a lot of solidarity with some people on here who genuinely want to learn and be kind to others and not reinforce shitty power dynamics on everyone they meet, and other people who felt the same as me, and i thought that would make it bearable, but the stupid tumblr jokes just pushed smogon's tendency to the most adolescent of edginess as a sign of maturity into the territory of utter banality, and i got sick of accepting the way everyone was treated in order to remain part of this community.

i joined this site when i was 14. i'm 21 now. sad to see some people never grow up but heartening to see a lot of other people did (sadly most of them also left). if you're wondering why it took me six years to leave it's because there are plenty of good things about this community and smogon was here for me during some of the hardest periods of my life and i won't ever forget that. but most of those people are gone too, whether they got fed up or just moved on.

(this is a harsh post; i don't want to hurt my friends. i don't hate everyone here fyi i just hate the atmosphere and have nothing but contempt for the people who prop it up, i have no problem talking to most of you and am still easily contacted.)

hth

p.s. some of the posts above are splendid examples of the maturity of this site's staff and the dominant ideology in this community if you're wondering

 

[Cresselia~~]

A lot of nice people left after you left, Jumpluff.
All of these people I refer to are non-Americans.
Smogon changed a lot after you have left.

Whilst no one had been racist to me on here yet, some people apparently think that I need an invitation before I talk about Hong Kong (where I live).
They don't share the same attitudes when people say stuff that's decidedly American.

And of course, that means that there are people I don't like who are on this forum.

I feel ashamed that I didn't know you were so upset.
Thing is, I didn't even see anything. That means I must be very insensitive.

 

[MikeDawg]

I'm gay (though not nearly as raging a homosexual in real life as I am on Smogon), and while we're operating in a culture where humor revolves around slurs (to the point where chaos had to ban some of them), I think that it's all in good fun. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that much of the administration is comprised of minorities, but I've always felt that any references were wholly playful. It's safe to assume that the Smogon community is smarter than average (the 'nerd' streotype), so this would also contribute to the overwhelming liberalism.

I don't think that the community is completely innocent, though. Underrepresented minorities (think mental disabilities, etc.) are subject to more sincere ignorance, which is unfortunate. This could probably be chalked up to the fact that you wouldn't know that somebody had a mental disability unless they explicitly said so or you knew them on a very personal level. As a result, it seems like there isn't a need for sensitivity. Add that to the fact that there is ignorance surrounding mental disorders all over the world, and you end up with genuine hostility.

I think that there is also genuine politcal/etc. hate. Minority opinion (ie. Conservatives) are shut down, and I can see that making some users feel ostracized. I assume that being religious elicits the same response.

 

[cookie]

actually yes, the prevalent atmosphere of racism and transphobia, especially transmisogyny, made me quit smogon for good, more than anything. i literally hid my racial heritage for years on this site because i was ashamed and thought it meant the slurs on here would apply to me. they still did, i disrespected my mom and my entire childhood and history so that i could ignore my best friends' entire senses of humour rested on trite antiblackness.

it's sad that you had to do that. All the time I've been here I've not seen anyone be judged for their race/sexuality. Here we quite liberally throw slurs around but the context is far more important. Language is far more nuanced than to convey one meaning. Among the channels I hang out in I've never seen anyone actually give a shit about factors that are funnily enough completely irrelevant on the internet. You're gay? Black? Not relevant, you're mostly a bunch of text to me until I get to know you better.

but i got really really tired of this site when it became a reddit derivative and the punchline to every joke was 'check your privilege' or 'stop oppressing me i am a triggered attack helicopter otherkin' or making fun of trans people and individuals who aren't even around anymore (for the exact same reasons, fyi). i spent like my last year arguing with stupid posts here and i was able to build a lot of solidarity with some people on here who genuinely want to learn and be kind to others and not reinforce shitty power dynamics on everyone they meet, and other people who felt the same as me, and i thought that would make it bearable, but the stupid tumblr jokes just pushed smogon's tendency to the most adolescent of edginess as a sign of maturity into the territory of utter banality, and i got sick of accepting the way everyone was treated in order to remain part of this community.

you need to understand why people use those phrases mockingly: this movement of feminazis and tumblrinas and god-knows-what-the-fuck-else is genuinely stupid and immature, and it directly clashes with the old-school idea of the internet which is that it's a free-for-all where trolls troll trolls. Tumblr is teeming with people who cultivate a victim complex for so long that they've lost responsibility for their own feelings, and as such expect the rest of the world to cater for them. You need a thick skin on the internet, just like you do in real life. You need to take responsibility for your own feelings. If I read something on Tumblr that I really dislike, I stop reading it. And believe me, there is a lot of stuff on the internet that I do not like - every gold nugget I find is swimming in a cesspool of circlejerking, hatred and ignorance. But not once have I ever expected or desired those views to be removed for my sake. If reading shit on Tumblr is triggering someone, get off the internet and take a walk.

I've gotten hate for my elitist point of views too.
Although I don't think it's my fault, I can choose to not post them anymore.
Things seem to go quite well after that.

what kind of hate, and for what elitist point of views?

 

[Cresselia~~]

what kind of hate, and for what elitist point of views?

I actually don't know.
You'd have to ask zorbees and Stratos for that.

They said I've always been very elitist.

 

[vonFiedler]

you need to understand why people use those phrases mockingly: this movement of feminazis and tumblrinas and god-knows-what-the-fuck-else is genuinely stupid and immature, and it directly clashes with the old-school idea of the internet which is that it's a free-for-all where trolls troll trolls. Tumblr is teeming with people who cultivate a victim complex for so long that they've lost responsibility for their own feelings, and as such expect the rest of the world to cater for them. You need a thick skin on the internet, just like you do in real life. You need to take responsibility for your own feelings. If I read something on Tumblr that I really dislike, I stop reading it. And believe me, there is a lot of stuff on the internet that I do not like - every gold nugget I find is swimming in a cesspool of circlejerking, hatred and ignorance. But not once have I ever expected or desired those views to be removed for my sake. If reading shit on Tumblr is triggering someone, get off the internet and take a walk.

To elaborate, thick skin is seeing someone respond to the concerns of one of the most universally respected members of the community opening with the term "feminazi" and not letting it ruin your day.

It does not however preclude rolling your eyes.

 

[Minwu]

cookie , I can only conclude you really haven't been paying attention if you think shit bigotry doesn't tarnish your forums. Let's pretend for a second that wading through an atmosphere of micro-aggressive slurs and facing targeted harassment and out-casting is honestly separable. Do you *honestly* think no one has been blatantly driven out of this site cuz of their identity before? Perhaps gender discrimination doesn't even fucking count. I'm not going to count bodies for you, but you fuckers derailed and killed the LGBT thread, for one. Socialization suffers. Trans people drop this place and try to find another close-knit outlet of discussion that doesn't fucking suck. If you want to talk about thick skin, try getting over your infantile giggles or discomfort every time you're inconveniently reminded that women have dicks to start.

 

[cookie]

I actually don't know.
You'd have to ask zorbees and Stratos for that.

They said I've always been very elitist.

so why did you stop voicing your opinions when you weren't directly subjected to hate? That's a terrible reason to keep controversial opinions to yourself, which kind of keep this sub-forum alive.

actually yes, the prevalent atmosphere of racism and transphobia, especially transmisogyny, made me quit smogon for good, more than anything.

I'm only aware of hatred towards Cathy but I don't remember enough to know what parts of that weren't just because of her personality. Also as someone who isn't involved in a lot of this site I'd like to know what kind of transphobia/misogyny you have experienced/seen to get a better understanding of where you're coming from here.

To elaborate, thick skin is seeing someone respond to the concerns of one of the most universally respected members of the community opening with the term "feminazi" and not letting it ruin your day.

I used 'feminazi' because it is good example of people who go so far with fighting against inequality, oppression and discrimination that they become perpetrators of it themselves. They are a stain on the movement that gave birth to them, and have very quickly distorted terms such as 'privilege' and 'trigger'. These are the very words whose lampooning jumpluff was describing. I am not attempting to disrespect anyone, and if I did it wouldn't matter if they're universally respected. In discussion I will respect everyone until they disrespect me.

cookie , I can only conclude you really haven't been paying attention if you think shit bigotry doesn't tarnish your forums. Let's pretend for a second that wading through an atmosphere of micro-aggressive slurs and facing targeted harassment and out-casting is honestly separable. Do you *honestly* think no one has been blatantly driven out of this site cuz of their identity before? Perhaps gender discrimination doesn't even fucking count. I'm not going to count bodies for you, but you fuckers derailed and killed the LGBT thread, for one. Socialization suffers. Trans people drop this place and try to find another close-knit outlet of discussion that doesn't fucking suck.

as stated above, I can only speak for Firebot/IRC, so again I'd like to know how "fuckers" like me apparently derailed that thread (I have not read that thread). I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that if you or anyone else sees hate-breeding behaviour in threads here that you contact a mod about it. From what I get in this thread is that people feel unwilling to come forward about being bullied/flamed. If this shit is happening anywhere (especially Cong) you need to contact a mod about it.

If you want to talk about thick skin, try getting over your infantile giggles or discomfort every time you're inconveniently reminded that women have dicks to start.

you want to flame me in a serious discussion? Nice way to practice what you preach. Not to mention accusing me of shit I haven't even done. The only transgendered person I've interacted with here was Cathy, whom I disliked and insulted for reasons wholly separate from her gender identity issues.

And because apparently I need to say this: I am not out to attack anyone.

 

[Aldaron]

holy hyperbole batman!

EDIT:

also what is minwu talking about with "you fuckers derailed and killed the LGBTQ thread"

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/lgbtq.3487061/page-23

The last two pages I see standard conversation??? And it seems like it just lost activity organically?????

If you're really commenting on some shit that happened in the middle of the thread that very clearly was dropped, since you know, the thread moved on and was obviously active after that, you either have an axe to grind or are just being hyperbolic for the sake of doing so.

 

[Cresselia~~]

so why did you stop voicing your opinions when you weren't directly subjected to hate? That's a terrible reason to keep controversial opinions to yourself, which kind of keep this sub-forum alive.

Ummm... because when you talk about politics, you aren't sure whether you really are moral.
It's not like how I'm obsessed with conservation and recycling, and definitely know it's morally right, and I'd bug people about it (if I have a chance)

Also the fact that politics isn't that science based. I just want to stay away from stuff that involves more emotions than science.
I don't like to argue when I don't have enough science to back up my opinions.

 

[Aldaron]

lol did she really say "I'm not really against any conquering/ relatively more successful race/ nationality to enslave another race they have won over"

somewhere?

Like seriously seriously?

now I get it Myzozoa

 

[Exeggutor]

a lot of people from both here and on PS! participate in casual racism and it seems to be the norm. i'm black and i've pretty much desensitized myself to the use of slurs online - i've been surrounded by discussion using them to the point where i honestly don't feel too much anymore and, living in a predominantly black country, i've never actually come across anyone who used racial slurs against me in real life (thankfully) for them to have a significant impact on me. i can't say i really let it bother me. it does kind of get to me when people close to me just throw around (BAN ME PLEASE) like nobody's business but i know i'll probably get brushed off if i ever bring it up, so that's that.

from my experience people here are better with LGB (and only LGB) people than they are with transgender people as well as with their attitude towards casual racism but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Cresselia~~]

im pretty sure i have a reason:


that quote is a gem btw, but you cant just essentially condone slavery and be like "this debate isnt science based idk why people find me elitist for my opinions?!!?"

What?
If they win, then they win. They are the ones to decide what to do with the losers.
How is that elitist?
Or is slavery actually elitist?
No, I think it's the way it is.
Most people do enslave what they have won over, if you study history. I mean the history for ancient civilization.
Some even had fun torturing them, or make those lost tribes wear funny stuff on their heads. There's one that put a ring onto people's nose and so they can be easily controlled if you pull them.

It's just the way it is. You'll just have to pray that the winning ones would be merciful.