It could work well though for things like the Delta Episode. Sure, it was included in the game, but things like that could be made in-between actual games.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I feel the DLC stuff could work as long as it's ACTUALLY new content and the amount we get in the game is appropriately large enough to justify that cost. Also it would go great if it wasn't really part of the main story or something and that there would be no benefit other than more story or something new to do to have it (like don't make new megas so people will buy DLC)
I have a friend who despises both Garchomp and Lucario, simply because my other friend loves them.
Friendships are weird.
Friendships are weird.
Okay, to clarify my position on potential DLC:
1) I don't think it will happen. In fact I said as much when I brought it up. But I do think it would be a good idea.
2) No selling power - that means, for example, paying for Mega Stones is right out. We already have event Pokemon which are bad enough. Potential DLC candidates would be stuff like extra post-game sidequests, an expanded battle facility and/or new minigames, or more customisation options for the player character's appearance (but I'm talking really small microtransactions for that last one, like ten cents for a hat or something).
1) I don't think it will happen. In fact I said as much when I brought it up. But I do think it would be a good idea.
2) No selling power - that means, for example, paying for Mega Stones is right out. We already have event Pokemon which are bad enough. Potential DLC candidates would be stuff like extra post-game sidequests, an expanded battle facility and/or new minigames, or more customisation options for the player character's appearance (but I'm talking really small microtransactions for that last one, like ten cents for a hat or something).
Or ten cents for no hat, Gamefreak would probably make a few hundred dollars in a day if that was an option. =P
Oh, not so much ninja-ing, I read your post at the same time as Kurona's, but you make a few points I would have mentioned too. Namely, that it's in Game Freak's financial interest to keep their games coming, since there so obviously exists a market demand for them. Not to mention, nothing gets the Internet Hype Machine (AKA the best marketing tool ever) running like the announcement of a new game. And Game Freak wants that machine to be running all the time, so the word Pokémon will be at the front of people's consciousness at all times.
Aaaanyway, there's another point too, that you didn't touch upon: The structure of the Pokémon games themselves. In a way, the games sort of have two "grand themes", that actually kind of clash with another.
A huge part of the games' fell are about the journey. You start an adventure with humble beginnings, setting out from your home town with a small creature by your side. You eagerly explore the new world, all its secrets and unknowns, all its people and places. You see the wonders of the world, you fight trainers, encounter many people, and your team of Pokémon steadily grows and changes as you make the journey. It's a heroic tale, from the first careful steps you take into the tall grass in your backyard, until you stand in the Hall of Fame renowned as the best trainer in your region. Your Pokémon grow from small, cuddly creatures, into fierce monsters. In that sense, it's very much like a traditional game, taking you from a humble corner of nowhere, to the top of the world.
On the other hand, there's the Pokémon themselves. From the moment you leave the relevant professor's lab, it's clear to you that they are your friends. The trainer catches them, befriends them and forms bonds with them, and wouldn't you know it, so does the player. Players grow fond of their Pokémon. They're the ones that take you through the hardships of your adventure. They do all the action. When you're about to lose, it's your valuable team mate who turns the tide and helps you secure a victory. The loss conditions aren't related to the player's health, or running out of food or money. No, you lose if your Pokémon all faint, and you have to keep them all healthy. They become your "friends", sort of. And after you progress into the post game, you will have several boxes full of Pokémon, some of them very rare, powerful, or dear to you. You will have a well-equipped Item Bag, with all the convenient stuff and TMs you've crossed the region to find and collect. A well-filled Pokédex, with quirky information on hundreds of monsters. This all represents several tens of hours of work, spread across sporadic play over a period of weeks or months. After a while, though, you'll feel that you've done it all. You once again long for the start of the adventure, where you had nothing but a Starter Pokémon to rely on. Where you gradually built a team to overcome the challenges the game set up for you. Back when there was actuall progress to your playing. It gets lonely at the very top after a while, after all.
However, if you want to experience the adventure aspect of the games again, you have to restart the game. And then all the work goes down the drain. The Pokémon don't carry over. Restarting the game yields a sensation that something is lost. You have to throw away the old, for a chance to experience it anew. All that accomplishment - gone. Many players can't bring themselves to do that.
Also, half the fun of your adventure is starting from scratch. Not only in the sense that all the trainers want to battle you, and the gyms are reset for their badges to be earned again, but in terms of exploration. Finding out which Pokémon are found where. Marvel at the sight of new locations. Wandering around in a cave until you finally find that elusive TM or Mega Stone. Restarting a game you've played through will not yield that same sensation as starting a completely new game.
And so, you're stuck with a bit of a dilemma:
- Play the game for too long, and the postgame gets a little boring and monotonous.
- Pretend to start anew, by catching or breeding a team of low-level Pokémon and set out from your starter town on foot. However, all the trainers in the game are beaten, the items found, the badges earned and the obstacles removed. This is no fun either.
- Actually starting anew would have you lose all your progress. This can be hundreds of hours' worth of playing.
- Using trades and/or Pokémon Bank to transfer your Pokémon to the new save file is quite tedious, and you'll still lose out on stuff like money, access to postgame areas, progress in battle facilities, TMs and so forth. Besides, the game is remarkably less fun when you play with fully evolved, traded, overpowered Pokémon.
But... what about buying a new game?
Then you won't have to say goodbye to all your Pokémon friends, or that mound of cash, the TMs it took you so long to find, all the Secret Base flags you've collected, or that sweet Grand Duke title in the Battle Chateau. That stuff you spent so long time "unlocking" is still available. Meanwhile, you get to play a new adventure, and once again make the journey from zero to hero.
Pokémon works in a weird way. The only way to fully satiate that desire to play the "fun parts" of the game again, would be to play a new game. That will give a mix of the fun, familiar feeling you have on a new adventure, and the sense of newness and mystery of an unexplored region, while also preserving the accomplishments you've spent so long time making.
In short, players require a new game from time to time. It's simply necessary to replicate the feeling of a proper Pokémon adventure. Once every 12-18 months seem to be plenty of time for players to beat (and grow slightly tired of) the previous game, but not long enough for the Pokémon franchise to lose its relevance in pop culture or on the Internet.
DLC wouldn't do quite the same, I'm afraid. For a start, you can't design a story which is completely independent of the players' expected progress. Will you make an area catering to players who have 'mons around lvl. 60 (having just beaten the Elite Four) or lvl. 100? Nevertheless, both of those level, uhh... levels are a little too high. For a game to be fun, there has to be some progress to it. Stuff you earn, after working for it. Pokémon becoming stronger and evolving as you progress. It's just not quite the same to grab your lvl. 87 Blaziken and going to town in a new area filled with trainers whose Pokémon are levelled in the sixties. You'll face no resistance at all, your Pokémon won't evolve, and you've already got all the tools you could ever wish for after beating the main adventure. Even if you earn something after completing the DLC storyline, what would you use that for? I mean, you've beaten the rest of the game already anyway. Level-independent postgame stuff like a Battle Frontier might be fun for a while, but it doesn't recreate the "adventure" aspect of the games, which is pretty important for the casual part of the target demographic. We Smogonites might see the story mode as an annoying hassle to go through before unlocking the postgame, but the main bulk of the players want adventure more than battle facilities.
As for multiple save files per cartridge? You run into the "newness" problem pretty quickly, I think. It might be fun to play the same adventure over once again, using different Pokémon, but ultimately you will still carry over loads of knowledge of Pokémon locations, storyline events, and so on. And what are you supposed to do once you reach the post game on your second save file? Then you can do exactly the same as you could do on the first save file, but there you've unlocked all the convenient stuff.
TL;DR: New games are probably the best things that can be done after a while. The franchise is sort of dependant on that, to retain the reputation it has, and the feelings players have for it.
Cod, you perfectly summed that up.
Also, I don't think we'll be getting a new game this year anyway*. We've just had three years in a row with releases. The last time this happened (Platinum, HGSS, BW), we had a break the next year. We likely won't get anything till next year, roughly Fall 2016 (Summer at the soonest).
*Considering my luck with statements like this, there will be a new game in 2015.
Also, I don't think we'll be getting a new game this year anyway*. We've just had three years in a row with releases. The last time this happened (Platinum, HGSS, BW), we had a break the next year. We likely won't get anything till next year, roughly Fall 2016 (Summer at the soonest).
*Considering my luck with statements like this, there will be a new game in 2015.
I know the word "might" was used, but from what I have seen elsewhere in OI, I feel somewhat obligated to say that not everyone on this site feels that way about the story. I never rush through the story just to get to the competitive part.
And, since I haven't yet posted a "true" opinion, that will come later. :P
^I touched upon it in my post. Basically, a big part of the game experience is taken away after the first play through, as you lose the exploration aspect on your second play. There's also the issue with the game putting you in the same fundamental situation at the end of every play through anyway. There's not much you can do differently in the post game with multiple files...
Also, there's the financial argument: GameFreak wants to sell as many games as possible, and having multiple save files on one cartridge would mean players could share games => Less revenue.
Also, there's the financial argument: GameFreak wants to sell as many games as possible, and having multiple save files on one cartridge would mean players could share games => Less revenue.
I believe the reason we don't have multiple save files is because back in the days of RBGY they wanted you to name EVERY Pokemon you caught. That took up memory, so there was only room for one save slot. Now we have 700+ Pokemon, and they probably still don't want to make more saves because of the memory it takes up. 718 Pokemon... Gamefreak, do you really think we want to name every single one? Give us our multiple saves and take my money!
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Wait... what does multiple save files mean?
Does it mean
1. Several players can have their separate files in one game
or
2. You can choose your progress in the games, and revert your save if you are not meant to save. (You have several time frames to choose from when you switch on your game)
If it means 1. then I'm against it. Because definitely people are going to share their games.
I wish there will be 2. though. Sometimes you just save and regret it.
Does it mean
1. Several players can have their separate files in one game
or
2. You can choose your progress in the games, and revert your save if you are not meant to save. (You have several time frames to choose from when you switch on your game)
If it means 1. then I'm against it. Because definitely people are going to share their games.
I wish there will be 2. though. Sometimes you just save and regret it.
I guess with 1 I guess, but 2 does sound cool. But that is if your willing to share your game with a friend or sibling. To me, if you have a sibling who plays Pokemon, just make them buy the version of the game you aren't getting. I would use one save for playing casually, doing the Pokedex, etc. The other would be for trying to make a VGC competitive team.
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Anyway, if it means multiple player files in one game, then I'm against it.
Because otherwise, people aren't buying their own copies.
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I hate Ash. I want him to be replaced with someone similar to Alain.
Pokemon really isn't attracting kids nowadays. Youkai Watch took everything.
Kids relate themselves to Youkai Watch a lot more than Pokemon, and they are all for Youkai Watch.
I just think Pokemon should switch to an older group of target audience.
Because otherwise, people aren't buying their own copies.
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I hate Ash. I want him to be replaced with someone similar to Alain.
Pokemon really isn't attracting kids nowadays. Youkai Watch took everything.
Kids relate themselves to Youkai Watch a lot more than Pokemon, and they are all for Youkai Watch.
I just think Pokemon should switch to an older group of target audience.
I really don't like Ash either. He forgets basic rules a lot, his Pikachu resets so that he can't trample everyone with it (That would be so amazing.) and then he barely evolves his starters. I just saw Origins, and I think some series like that would be interesting. Just seeing the game being played out in the anime. In Origins of course, they skipped things to move along with the story. To make the show longer, all they need to do is have one episode be different events, and not skip things. Ash... can't you at least grow older? Learn to do stuff? Maybe beat a champion, just once? He doesn't understand that to be the master... you can't not evolve your set of three starters, abandon your probably level 50-100 teams every time you move, and evolve Pikachu. Please.
Cresselia~~ : I honestly had to Google Youkai Watch. It seems it's a Japan-only thing, though at least Nintendo are planning on a Western release (remember this is a company that had planned to restrict Xenoblade Chronicles of all things to Japan, until huge consumer pressure forced them to rethink).
Seeing Level 5's name attached to the game doesn't convince me that it will be able to rival Pokemon in the West to be honest. Level 5 are a very unique company, but the games they make are pretty niche titles. Ni No Kuni, probably Level 5's greatest achievement, was universally lauded by critics, but the 1 million copies or so it shifted (still really good sales, mind you) doesn't hold a candle to Pokemon's numbers.
Seeing Level 5's name attached to the game doesn't convince me that it will be able to rival Pokemon in the West to be honest. Level 5 are a very unique company, but the games they make are pretty niche titles. Ni No Kuni, probably Level 5's greatest achievement, was universally lauded by critics, but the 1 million copies or so it shifted (still really good sales, mind you) doesn't hold a candle to Pokemon's numbers.
Honestly, I only got the demo of Ni No Kuni because I heard Studio Ghibli had a hand with making it, and I love those movies. The only Level 5 game I actually completed was Fantasy Life.
Honestly, I have yet to meet anyone who likes Ash at all. I can see people liking some of the Pokemon he used because some created some really great character moments like Bulbasaur, Butterfree, Charizard (nobody saw this coming), Hawlucha etc. but Ash's character is all over the place and inconsistent.
In gen 1 and 2 he was pretty much a dick and a pitiful trainer, in gen 3 he became more mature, gen 4 he is more of a "friendship rulez" person similar in gen 5 and the current series he is more overdramatic character who has almost give up on his goal after losing to the first Gym leader who used a Surskit and Vivillon if it wasn't for Serena.
In gen 1 and 2 he was pretty much a dick and a pitiful trainer, in gen 3 he became more mature, gen 4 he is more of a "friendship rulez" person similar in gen 5 and the current series he is more overdramatic character who has almost give up on his goal after losing to the first Gym leader who used a Surskit and Vivillon if it wasn't for Serena.
She IS hard if you choose Froakie though. But his character definitely isn't a consistent one.
I find generic NPC's to be overall way more interesting, helpful, and deep then most of the "unique" characters (gym leaders, elite four, professors, etc.)
Part of it is the mystery since they do get very little screen-time to work with, but the other half is the bar is set so low for NPC's that when one surprises me it seems like more of an accomplishment. To contrast, when a cool looking gym-leader utterly fails at helping the plot it just frustrates me in a "you had so much potential" kind of way.
Some examples:
-The friendly Team Plasma Grunt from B2W2, the one that infiltrated evil group and helps you out in their bases (generally giving tips and spotting for you while you nap). Bro's got your back more than Hugh.
-Cameron the photo-guy from HGSS. Mostly for the Earthbound reference
-The masked superheroes that are totally not Sycamore's researchers (although this might be cheating, since they did have unique masked models...)
-Anytime there's a former Team "___" member, but spotlight on the Rocket Grunt from Gold/Silver in Misty's Gym who quits and shows up in B/W having cleaned up his act.
-The Winstrate Family in Ruby/Sapphire, and their eldest son who appears on Victory Road.
-Anything to do with Sea Mauville in ORAS.
Part of it is the mystery since they do get very little screen-time to work with, but the other half is the bar is set so low for NPC's that when one surprises me it seems like more of an accomplishment. To contrast, when a cool looking gym-leader utterly fails at helping the plot it just frustrates me in a "you had so much potential" kind of way.
Some examples:
-The friendly Team Plasma Grunt from B2W2, the one that infiltrated evil group and helps you out in their bases (generally giving tips and spotting for you while you nap). Bro's got your back more than Hugh.
-Cameron the photo-guy from HGSS. Mostly for the Earthbound reference
-The masked superheroes that are totally not Sycamore's researchers (although this might be cheating, since they did have unique masked models...)
-Anytime there's a former Team "___" member, but spotlight on the Rocket Grunt from Gold/Silver in Misty's Gym who quits and shows up in B/W having cleaned up his act.
-The Winstrate Family in Ruby/Sapphire, and their eldest son who appears on Victory Road.
-Anything to do with Sea Mauville in ORAS.
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Youkai Watch's anime is really funny though.
And one of the main characters explain the Youkai's with a dictionary, so it's totally ok if you don't know that Youkai.
I really think it can rival Pokemon in the West.
My big issue with Ash is that making him such a static protagonist clashes with the show's format. Characters that don't ultimately change are fine in something episodic like Spongebob or a Slice of Life anime.
But Pokemon's anime has continuity and is meant to be a journey with progression. For it to fell like it's come anywhere, Ash has to feel like he's changed or matured, learned something from his journey. Imagine Avatar: the Last Airbender, if they got to the climactic battle at the series finale, and Aang was still the same goofy free spirit he was in the beginning of the show: it'd really take away from the show on the whole and the sense of everything that's happened over its run.
If it's for the sake of being able to introduce new things every generation, just have Ash, as an experienced trainer, teach and explain things to the inevitable newbie partner.
That's my big problem with Ash. After 5 regions and almost 20 years of journeying, the character is barely different from how he was in Season 1, beyond maybe just being slightly hot headed. One of the things that makes Pokemon fun for me is that I became more familiar with the fundamentals of the series, so after that it became a matter of seeing how each region could challenge me with what I (at least think I) know about how everything works. Even Red in the 4 episodes of Origins had more of a sense of development/change than I feel like Ash has had on the whole.
But Pokemon's anime has continuity and is meant to be a journey with progression. For it to fell like it's come anywhere, Ash has to feel like he's changed or matured, learned something from his journey. Imagine Avatar: the Last Airbender, if they got to the climactic battle at the series finale, and Aang was still the same goofy free spirit he was in the beginning of the show: it'd really take away from the show on the whole and the sense of everything that's happened over its run.
If it's for the sake of being able to introduce new things every generation, just have Ash, as an experienced trainer, teach and explain things to the inevitable newbie partner.
That's my big problem with Ash. After 5 regions and almost 20 years of journeying, the character is barely different from how he was in Season 1, beyond maybe just being slightly hot headed. One of the things that makes Pokemon fun for me is that I became more familiar with the fundamentals of the series, so after that it became a matter of seeing how each region could challenge me with what I (at least think I) know about how everything works. Even Red in the 4 episodes of Origins had more of a sense of development/change than I feel like Ash has had on the whole.
I think this hits it on the head. The franchise as a whole really is about growth. We start out the game as a trainer with one little Pokémon. As we leave the comfort of our childhood home and head out into the real world, we alongside our Pokémon grow and evolve. While Ash's Pokémon certain grow and evolve (and sometimes, side characters as well), Ash doesn't. He's virtually the same person that left Pallet Town. To be more accurate, he's virtually the same person he was once the series got into it's stride around the third or fourth gym in Kanto. A little smarter, but not much.
To be fair to Ash, there is good things about his character. He tries to be the best he can be, both as a trainer and as a person. He does better as a trainer that we give him credit for (he does consistently make it high up in the Leagues) and as a person. While brash and immature, he will try to do what is right. The biggest problem is the fact that this is a good place to START with a character. It would have been nice to see him grow (and not with age, but wisdom). And the makers thinking that he would eventually grow up too much for the show to follow him, I have this to say: no one ever stops learning.