Gonna have to disagree as zard x NEVER runs outrage and so what if it has to give up coverage for roost? Mega diancie and mega altaria(offensive ones) both hate taking a flare blitz and even defensive mega altaria can be overwhelmed by sd zard x. Rocky helm chomp does to dragon claw and damage can be roosted off. Stealth rocks are a problem but it was S rank before even with that problem and zard x really doesn't care for most priority bar bisharp's sucker punch and talonflame's brave bird.
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Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139
- Thread starter AM
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Ok, Outrage you're right. tough it needs much more Support than the Mons in S-Rank.
I don't agree with Char-X going to S because the meta hasn't stabilized enough to a point where I can confidently say that it should cement itself as an S rank threat, after the Landorus ban. I put it up as a discussion point to maintain the notion that it's a possibility in the future not so much that it's definite at this very moment, unlike Landorus when it was nommed back to S and it was blatantly obvious. You might call this a shitty reasoning, but it's a reasoning that I'm using so I don't just jump to a conclusion based on bandwagon mentality.
Small convo I had with a friend summing up my thoughts on why I'm on the fence about M-Venusaur.
You can take that as you will.
Chesnaught should drop, Amoonguss is a bit shaky, but Amoonguss is realistically going to be more useful than Quagsire on most defensive teams that it's on due to the mindlessness of Regenerator in my eyes. Quagsires ability to pivot puts strong emphasis that it stays very healthy at almost all costs while worst case scenario Amoonguss just needs to switch out and it just made up for lost ground. This is speaking from a pivot stand-point btw, the only thing you can acknowledge is that Quagsire can slow down threats like BD Azu and Char-X, cause everything else it's suppose to blanket check comes with the idea that you're not contending with heavy duty special attackers and hazards in the back that will more or less take advantage of it much more easily. This is the basic idea of where dropping Quagsire comes from, similar to Char-X where it'll be more clear in due time.
Neutral on Scolipede from lack of use, neutral with Reuniclus from extended use, Mandibuzz I think is bad so staying neutral on that, Kabutops neutral on since really depends on who you ask hence why it's up for a discussion point as well.
Slurpuff and Nidoqueen are E rank material when I have time to actually get to that. They're being overrated for D by a long shot. Stunfisk is like F rank lol. It's cute for hipster semi-stall but the reality is that it's pressured as shit by about everything else in the meta. Coming from extended use as well.
M-Gard to A+ is way too soon just cause Landorus got the boot. With that being said M-Diancie and M-Gard should probably be looked at it to be in the same rank of A subjectively speaking I don't see M-Diancie that superior to M-Gardevoir. M-Gyarados in due time as well, it's being a little underestimated for going to A at this point but it's A+ in the Lando meta, so we'll see how that turns out.
Oh and I unranked Doublade forgot to put that in the update, I'll be doing that now.
Small convo I had with a friend summing up my thoughts on why I'm on the fence about M-Venusaur.
brokenwings: huh AM ithought mega venu was A+ already
brokenwings: it should be!!
AM: we're debating about it
AM: shit like torn-t, and m-alakzam really suck for it
brokenwings: tru but its not like zam wants to switch in whatsoever
brokenwings: and not that hard to deal with via teammates
brokenwings: hopefully
brokenwings: torn t usage will die down
AM: more or less its dependency on consolidating so many roles find itself in positions where it can possibly get overwhelmed
brokenwings: once lando goes
AM: at least right now
brokenwings: yea that's the main issue with it i think
brokenwings: it can get overwhelmed
AM: we'll see in like
AM: couple of weeks
brokenwings: sand also sucks for it
AM: it does better in fatter metas
brokenwings: so do scald burns
brokenwins: such a good glue mon tho
brokenwings: it should be!!
AM: we're debating about it
AM: shit like torn-t, and m-alakzam really suck for it
brokenwings: tru but its not like zam wants to switch in whatsoever
brokenwings: and not that hard to deal with via teammates
brokenwings: hopefully
brokenwings: torn t usage will die down
AM: more or less its dependency on consolidating so many roles find itself in positions where it can possibly get overwhelmed
brokenwings: once lando goes
AM: at least right now
brokenwings: yea that's the main issue with it i think
brokenwings: it can get overwhelmed
AM: we'll see in like
AM: couple of weeks
brokenwings: sand also sucks for it
AM: it does better in fatter metas
brokenwings: so do scald burns
brokenwins: such a good glue mon tho
Chesnaught should drop, Amoonguss is a bit shaky, but Amoonguss is realistically going to be more useful than Quagsire on most defensive teams that it's on due to the mindlessness of Regenerator in my eyes. Quagsires ability to pivot puts strong emphasis that it stays very healthy at almost all costs while worst case scenario Amoonguss just needs to switch out and it just made up for lost ground. This is speaking from a pivot stand-point btw, the only thing you can acknowledge is that Quagsire can slow down threats like BD Azu and Char-X, cause everything else it's suppose to blanket check comes with the idea that you're not contending with heavy duty special attackers and hazards in the back that will more or less take advantage of it much more easily. This is the basic idea of where dropping Quagsire comes from, similar to Char-X where it'll be more clear in due time.
Neutral on Scolipede from lack of use, neutral with Reuniclus from extended use, Mandibuzz I think is bad so staying neutral on that, Kabutops neutral on since really depends on who you ask hence why it's up for a discussion point as well.
It wasn't unanimous with team, until then it stays in A. Same deal with Celebi.
Slurpuff and Nidoqueen are E rank material when I have time to actually get to that. They're being overrated for D by a long shot. Stunfisk is like F rank lol. It's cute for hipster semi-stall but the reality is that it's pressured as shit by about everything else in the meta. Coming from extended use as well.
M-Gard to A+ is way too soon just cause Landorus got the boot. With that being said M-Diancie and M-Gard should probably be looked at it to be in the same rank of A subjectively speaking I don't see M-Diancie that superior to M-Gardevoir. M-Gyarados in due time as well, it's being a little underestimated for going to A at this point but it's A+ in the Lando meta, so we'll see how that turns out.
Oh and I unranked Doublade forgot to put that in the update, I'll be doing that now.
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Would just like to vouch for Mandibuzz remaining in B-.
Yes, it's not a great Defogger, but it's got a pretty damn great support movepool that people overlook, and since you get U-Turn, you don't have to be sapping momentum. A Roost/Foul Play/Taunt/U-Turn set (to maintain momentum and stop getting set up on, while still checking/countering your physical threats) is plenty great.
Hell, instead of Taunt and U-Turn, you can run Toxic, Tailwind (although this is pretty team-specific), Knock Off, or Whirlwind, all of which are great supporting tools.
Sure, Mandibuzz isn't as great as it used to be, but its very-nice raw bulk and useful resistances plus a great supporting movepool (seriously people having a rocks-weak defogger is almost always not preferable) that lets it check/counter a ton of strong (mostly physical) threats means Mandibuzz should stay B-.
Yes, it's not a great Defogger, but it's got a pretty damn great support movepool that people overlook, and since you get U-Turn, you don't have to be sapping momentum. A Roost/Foul Play/Taunt/U-Turn set (to maintain momentum and stop getting set up on, while still checking/countering your physical threats) is plenty great.
Hell, instead of Taunt and U-Turn, you can run Toxic, Tailwind (although this is pretty team-specific), Knock Off, or Whirlwind, all of which are great supporting tools.
Sure, Mandibuzz isn't as great as it used to be, but its very-nice raw bulk and useful resistances plus a great supporting movepool (seriously people having a rocks-weak defogger is almost always not preferable) that lets it check/counter a ton of strong (mostly physical) threats means Mandibuzz should stay B-.
Zard X is a discussion point for S? YES!
Anyways so I've used this monster very extensively this gen because everyone prepares for it terribly (unless you have Quagsire). When you think of Zard X you mainly think of the DD sets because of their power and sweeping ability. I'll just quickly go over its good things even though everyone's mentioned it but lots of power, great STAB coverage, good bulk and defensive typing, Roost, blah blah blah. As for cons, you have "some) unfavourable metagame trends, SR weakness, easily worn down, and splashability, the latter which was brought up by Albacore and I think is a good argument for it to stay in A+. So for metagame trends there isn't much that actually hinders it except like Hippowdon and bulky Garchomp who doesn't hinder it but makes it take a lot of extra damage. That's really it, but I don't think that's a big enough reason when you consider Hippowdon take a ton of damage from +1 Flare Blitz or is OHKO'd by SD sets (which are actually extremely underrated) after Spikes or something. Not to mention Adamant is a viable nature now since Scarf Landorus-T is less relevant now but it may gain usage because Landorus-I is banned. SR weakness...well that has an obvious solution in hazard control and yes that is a flaw but it had the same flaw last gen when it was S rank.
The "easily worn down by Flare Blitz recoil" argument is the exact reason why I use Charizard X as a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper, but can still sweep if conditions are right. Most of the time I can't sweep late-game because something else did that or because it's low on health. That's why I use it as a DD wallbreaker and sometimes SD and that's because it wears itself down but nukes/outright kills fat stuff in the process. It's also not hard to find a set-up opportunity considering Electrics and Steels are really common and you have other less common but still relevant stuff like Mega Venusaur, Celebi, etc. Splashability is the one argument I actually can't say anything against since it's true and that applies to everything in S right now since they're all splashable where as Zard X isn't like it was last gen.
After all this I'll just say if the metagame becomes more bulky now after Landorus' ban then maybe Zard X can go to S since bulky WoW sets have good surprise factor and fit nicely on bulky teams. I think at this point Charizard X should stay in A+ because we need to see how the meta develops now and whatever. Keep Charizard X in A+...for now at least.
Anyways so I've used this monster very extensively this gen because everyone prepares for it terribly (unless you have Quagsire). When you think of Zard X you mainly think of the DD sets because of their power and sweeping ability. I'll just quickly go over its good things even though everyone's mentioned it but lots of power, great STAB coverage, good bulk and defensive typing, Roost, blah blah blah. As for cons, you have "some) unfavourable metagame trends, SR weakness, easily worn down, and splashability, the latter which was brought up by Albacore and I think is a good argument for it to stay in A+. So for metagame trends there isn't much that actually hinders it except like Hippowdon and bulky Garchomp who doesn't hinder it but makes it take a lot of extra damage. That's really it, but I don't think that's a big enough reason when you consider Hippowdon take a ton of damage from +1 Flare Blitz or is OHKO'd by SD sets (which are actually extremely underrated) after Spikes or something. Not to mention Adamant is a viable nature now since Scarf Landorus-T is less relevant now but it may gain usage because Landorus-I is banned. SR weakness...well that has an obvious solution in hazard control and yes that is a flaw but it had the same flaw last gen when it was S rank.
The "easily worn down by Flare Blitz recoil" argument is the exact reason why I use Charizard X as a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper, but can still sweep if conditions are right. Most of the time I can't sweep late-game because something else did that or because it's low on health. That's why I use it as a DD wallbreaker and sometimes SD and that's because it wears itself down but nukes/outright kills fat stuff in the process. It's also not hard to find a set-up opportunity considering Electrics and Steels are really common and you have other less common but still relevant stuff like Mega Venusaur, Celebi, etc. Splashability is the one argument I actually can't say anything against since it's true and that applies to everything in S right now since they're all splashable where as Zard X isn't like it was last gen.
After all this I'll just say if the metagame becomes more bulky now after Landorus' ban then maybe Zard X can go to S since bulky WoW sets have good surprise factor and fit nicely on bulky teams. I think at this point Charizard X should stay in A+ because we need to see how the meta develops now and whatever. Keep Charizard X in A+...for now at least.
Haxorus has an amazing attack stat of 147 and a decent speed of 97 plus it gets dragon dance boosting its attack and speed even more. It also great with a choice scarf or band. However I do know that is has some flaws.For starters it has base 76 hp and 70 special defense so, its not the bulkiest pokemon. Plus with fairies added in the game it now has another weakness. But with strong moves like earthquake,dragon claw, outrage, and poison jab in my opinion it deserves at least a C+ rank.
Charizard X: A+ > S
Mega Venusaur: A > A+
Amoonguss: B > B-
Chesnaught: B > B-
Quagsire: B > B-
Scolipede: B > B+
Reuniclus: B> B+
Mandibuzz: B- > C+
Kabutops: B+ > B
And why is cham B+ when mega chomp is B lol that's pathetic. Mega chomp has twice as much bulk, superior stabs, superior boosting move, superior typing, and has absolutely zero counters to just one set: SD/Stone edge/outrage/earthquake. It's practically impossible to revenge kill without strong ice attacks or STAB dragon attacks, and ttar already takes care of latios. (mlop ice punch OHKO's only 31% of the time after rocks, for example). Sand makes it a literal god, but it doesn't need any help at all to do its job. NONE
Megacham is stronger and slightly faster (which hardly helps because its still in the most crowded speed tier and its prio is ass and usually goes adamant anyway), but has to choose between fake out, zen headbutt, hjk, bullet, ice punch, thunderpunch, baton pass, and Sub, and even after all that it has counters like reuniclus, mega sableye, and cresselia. You need dark/ghost types like weavile/bisharp/gengar to actually break through slower teams, and you also need a fairy or whatever the fuck else you fancy to break down mega sableye, only the most commonly used mega on stall teams, which are the kinds of teams mcham is supposed to be breaking through. It basically needs a minimum of two pokemon to help it do its job. Not to mention its easy as hell to revenge kill.
Seriously somebody explain this to me.
Its checks are far too common, like ttar, hippo, slowbro, sand rush exca, and lando-T. Al of these pokemon are extremely common and just solid overall, and thus see high amounts of usage. Thus, char-x seems independent, but in reality it needs a lot of help breaking all of these common physical walls down. Its a fantastic mon but there's too much work cut out for it. Keep A+
Mega Venusaur: A > A+
Easily worn down but the raw amount of shit it checks combined with actual strength (invested sludge bomb 2hko's so many of its "switch-ins") just commands A+.
Amoonguss: B > B-
never rly liked this thing, and it relies solely on regenerator/giga drain for recovery which isn't enough. It's also weak as hell and the only thing to be scared about is spore. move it down.
Chesnaught: B > B-
too specific in the things it checks, and there are plenty of other things to lay down spikes. BD+Sub+salac is a weird set which i've seen but I personally don't like that set b/c stabs don't have fantastic coverage. B- pls
Quagsire: B > B-
I think it should stay because of its ability to handle electrics (basically everything bar gknot thundy) combined with ability to tank physical shit. It's less sturdy than hippo but typing is very nice, and it can't be overwhelmed just by boosting like hippo can. It's not as bulky as people think/want it to be but its still solid, keep it B.
Scolipede: B > B+
Idk about this one honestly, but one thing i can be sure of is that it doesn't seem at home alongside mons like slowking, togekiss, mamo, terrak, and victini. Scolipede may just fit in better at B.
Reuniclus: B> B+
definitely. Bulk, bulk, bulk, recovery, ability, fairly strong, and then more bulk. Move it up.
Mandibuzz: B- > C+
God how much can you hate this thing lmao. It's hilarious to be moving down mandibuzz to the level of trash like magneton and rhyperior. Mandibuzz has the recovery, bulk, utility, typing, and even decent speed to check practically every physical threat in OU that isn't fairy or rock (malt, azu, terrak, ttar. 4 mons reliably beat it on the physical side. 4...). Don't use this thing for defog, just run taunt/toxic/foul play/roost or something like that and watch it check fucking everything.
Hell, it doesn't even have to be physical! You can dump sdef into him instead and watch him COUNTER LO gengar and LO alakazam too, some of the most difficult pokemon to switch into in the tier!
If you ask me, this big bird should be B+, but you people just seem to have some retarded idea that because aegislash is gone this thing is useless. Just use this thing, let it roam free on a battle without rocks, and it won't let you down.
Hell, it doesn't even have to be physical! You can dump sdef into him instead and watch him COUNTER LO gengar and LO alakazam too, some of the most difficult pokemon to switch into in the tier!
If you ask me, this big bird should be B+, but you people just seem to have some retarded idea that because aegislash is gone this thing is useless. Just use this thing, let it roam free on a battle without rocks, and it won't let you down.
Kabutops: B+ > B
competition from mega pert/omastar i guess? I don't see this thing as much on rain teams anymore, but its still extremely threatening to every archetype and all it takes is an SD to OHKO damn near everything. I kinda wanna keep it at B+
And why is cham B+ when mega chomp is B lol that's pathetic. Mega chomp has twice as much bulk, superior stabs, superior boosting move, superior typing, and has absolutely zero counters to just one set: SD/Stone edge/outrage/earthquake. It's practically impossible to revenge kill without strong ice attacks or STAB dragon attacks, and ttar already takes care of latios. (mlop ice punch OHKO's only 31% of the time after rocks, for example). Sand makes it a literal god, but it doesn't need any help at all to do its job. NONE
Megacham is stronger and slightly faster (which hardly helps because its still in the most crowded speed tier and its prio is ass and usually goes adamant anyway), but has to choose between fake out, zen headbutt, hjk, bullet, ice punch, thunderpunch, baton pass, and Sub, and even after all that it has counters like reuniclus, mega sableye, and cresselia. You need dark/ghost types like weavile/bisharp/gengar to actually break through slower teams, and you also need a fairy or whatever the fuck else you fancy to break down mega sableye, only the most commonly used mega on stall teams, which are the kinds of teams mcham is supposed to be breaking through. It basically needs a minimum of two pokemon to help it do its job. Not to mention its easy as hell to revenge kill.
Seriously somebody explain this to me.
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Using one pokemon as a defensive example is not a good reason for saying one set outclasses another. Slurpuff does not have a buffer against priority (Azu has its own) and cannot deal with Sand Rush Excadrill whatsoever while Azumarill is one of its best checks. Also comparing Slurpuff's BD set to Azu's CB set doesn't make any sense. Hey, let's compare Zard X's Swords Dance wallbreaker set and Mega Altaria's Dragon Dance sweeping set, because they totally do the same thing! Let's not forget that Azumarill is actually WAY more powerful. Slurpuff literally has to set up a Belly Drum to do anything while Azumarill can attack without using BD to weaken potential switch-ins for when it BDs later.
There is so much wrong with saying Slurpuff outclasses Azumarill that nobody is going to take the time to refute every single point you made. Firstly because of its typing, Azumarill has very few reliable switch-ins, the primary ones being things like Mega Venusaur, Amoongus, Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and then super fat stuff like bulky Mega Scizor and Skarmory. Then when you consider that these are switch-ins to Choice Band but Ferro / Emp get bopped by Superpower and Amoonguss and Ferro are actually liabilities against Belly Drum then the set of consistent switch-ins shrinks. The fact that Azumarill has these two solid sets (not to mention AV which yes is not trash like people say) - that must be played around in almost completely opposite ways - versus Slurpuff's one linear and predictable set makes it a ridiculous claim that it is outclassed.
There is so much wrong with saying Slurpuff outclasses Azumarill that nobody is going to take the time to refute every single point you made. Firstly because of its typing, Azumarill has very few reliable switch-ins, the primary ones being things like Mega Venusaur, Amoongus, Empoleon, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and then super fat stuff like bulky Mega Scizor and Skarmory. Then when you consider that these are switch-ins to Choice Band but Ferro / Emp get bopped by Superpower and Amoonguss and Ferro are actually liabilities against Belly Drum then the set of consistent switch-ins shrinks. The fact that Azumarill has these two solid sets (not to mention AV which yes is not trash like people say) - that must be played around in almost completely opposite ways - versus Slurpuff's one linear and predictable set makes it a ridiculous claim that it is outclassed.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
You are missing the fact that comparing BD Slurpuff to BD Azumarill makes no sense. Sure BD Azumarill loses to Rotom-W but Slurpuff has way more flaws as a BD user than Azumarill. If you want me to name them all I'll do but I think it is pretty obvious that Slurpuffs niche over Azumarill is too small to consider it over Azumarill.
p2
Banned deucer.
Haxorus is so low because it's outclassed by other Dragon dancers in the tier. Haxorus doesn't do anything that the other DDers can't do better. Need high immediate power? ZardX. Need Mold Breaker? M-Gyara. The only thing it has over Gyarados, Altaria and Dragonite is its higher speed tier. It's just horribly outclassed outside of that. Although it could use a little bump up to C-, I tried to push for that but it just never came up again, but Haxorus is way too outclassed to be in B- or even C+.Haxorus-> C+ or B-
Haxorus has an amazing attack stat of 147 and a decent speed of 97 plus it gets dragon dance boosting its attack and speed even more. It also great with a choice scarf or band. However I do know that is has some flaws.For starters it has base 76 hp and 70 special defense so, its not the bulkiest pokemon. Plus with fairies added in the game it now has another weakness. But with strong moves like earthquake,dragon claw, outrage, and poison jab in my opinion it deserves at least a C+ rank.
Completely agree with this. Not only does chomp pressure pretty much every defensive pokemon, it has the raw bulk to make a stand against offense as well and shrug off pretty much all priority attacks in the tier. It's also not strapped for power outside of sand:
252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And even to the few things capable of taking on SD MegaChomp, it's Mixed set can be used to obliterate them.
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Reuniclus to B+? I have to say that I agree. Let's compare it to MG+CM Clefable.
Clefable has 95/73/90 bulk compared to 110/75/85 which is by all means slightly better. Reuniclus just wishes for a better type but oh well. We can all agree Poison and Steel types are on the rise making Clefable's life hard especially with Bisharp, Scizor, and Dragalgae around. Reuniclus is no better being Knock Off and Pursuit bait. But the beauty of Reuniclus is in fact it's sheer bulk. From a quick glance at the rankings the most viable of his weaknesses are (M) Scizor, Bisharp, Gengar, Mega Gyarados, M Sable, Tyranitar, M Pinsir, Weavile, and plenty more while Clefable has significantly less. What's common about all of these? Most can't OHKO it and Trick Room shits on them. Psyshock/Psychic, Focus Blast, and Shadow Ball is all it needs with Life Orb to fuck shit up. Well except for M Sableye. It also breaks stall wonderfully having an easier time taking hits than Clefable with CM+MG as well.
Compare calcs
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Reuniclus: 178-210 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Reuniclus: 178-210 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
The damn blob does better even without lefties. Clefable just wins out of typing 6 times out of 10.
While on this subject I've got a ranking request
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxMTEhUUEhQVFBUVFxgaGBcYGRcXIBwYGBgcFxoXFhcYHS0gGhomHhcYITEhJSo3Li4vGx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGBAQGi8mHyU2LCwvLCwsLSwsLCwsLCwsLDQtLCssLCs3LS4sNS8vLSwsLjcsMDc3LC0sLCwsNCwrLP/AABEIAOEA4QMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAEAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQYDBAcCAf/EAEgQAAIBAwIEAwUEBQgHCQAAAAECAwAEERIhBQYxQRNRYQcicYGRFDJCoRUjUmKCMzRDU3KSscEkVHOTorLCFiVERZTR0uHw/8QAGgEBAQADAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBv/EAC0RAQACAgAEBAUDBQAAAAAAAAABAgMRBBIhMQUTQfBRcYGh0RQyYSJCkcHh/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDuNKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKVzf2j81yGT9H2blJNIa4mXrEjDZEI6StkEeQ3+Bnjpa9orWOspbmb2hQW7tBAhurleqIcKnl4sp91fhufSqfdcycSmzruFtwfwW6DI9DJLqJPqAPgKjbKzSJAkahR+ZPmx6k+prPUfRcP4VipG8nWfs1zBKTlru9Ynv9plX8kIA+QrZtLu7h/kb65GO0jLOvz8RdX/ABV8pR1zwXDzGuSE/wAM9o88O1/Crx957cH3R5yQklvmpPwrovDr+KeNZYXWSNxlWU5BrjlYeGcVk4ZKbiEFrdj/AKRbjpjvPEOiuO4H3hVeTxvhcUrN8Xb4fh3KlYbS6SVFkjYOjqGVhuCCMgis1HilKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoI/mDii2ttNcPuIY3fHnpBIUepOB864nwWN/DMkpzNOxllP7z74+AGB8q6J7ZJSOGsn9bNDGfg0gyPoKpdHt+DYom1rz6dHylKVHvlKUoFCKUoLJ7HL8otxYsSRbuHhzviGXcLnvpYN9a6TXHORnKcaTHSW0kUj1SQMD+eK7HVfG8XjjHmtWO2ylKUc5SlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKBSlKCie2dP+7g39XcQMfgJAD/jVIgkzt5V1jnPhBu7G5txjVJEwTP7YGUz6agK4jwi6MkSschh7rg7EOvusD8xR7XhGTU2r9U3SsEdx5/Ws4NR78TElKUopSvjMB1rXnudj2A6k+VGM2iEnyDGZONZH3YLRsn96STAH0Brsdc39i/DD4M1664N0/wCrz18CMaUJ+J1H6eddIqvjuKyeZmtePWSlKUaClKUClKUClKUClKUClKUClKUClKUClKUCsN5dxxKXldY0HVmIUD4k1T+L86vJK1twuNbmZSRJMxIgh/tuPvvn8C79fI1r2nJyM3i38jX82c5lH6pPSKD7igeuTRlWkykzz7buSLWO4vCO8MTaM/7V9KH4gkVzPmnhtzFcS3q2csNtKQ00ZeGQo+MGZEhYkIce9nuSemMdfUADAGAOgGw+QrT4zxSK1heeY6Y4xk9yc7BQO5JIAHrU26McTjtF6z1hyOGVXUMpDKehG4NZAa1Lnh7Sy+NFGtipJJhj94tnoZAcRhvgvzr3e3PhrqKs3vBcLjPvHA6nzIqvoseS3JzXrr377tsSt518Mp861XuHXZre7B8jbzf/ABr1ELmTaKyuG9ZF8Bfm0mPyFCeJxx/czGtW24XPxBjHbIHgQjxpC/hq+CMwxvpPvHuQMDHXzn+F8hTzkG8lCx94Yc4PpJKdyPRR866RYWUcMaxRIscaDCqoAA79B671NvP4ri5vHJTpH3RkPNMtuoWbhs8caAANAY51CgYGFRteP4am+BczWl4D9nmVyv3k3V1Pk0bAMvQ9RSoXjnK9vdHW6mOYfduIj4cqnsRIu5x1wcim3kzi+C40qg2vMtxw9li4kRLbsdKXyjGCei3SDZD++NtvpfEcEAgggjII3BB7g1WqY09UpSiFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFc54xxeXikz2tm5itImKXVwvWQ94IG+uW/wDx3PaDxaSWSPhdoxWa4XVNIP6G2BwzZ7M2Co/yyDUxwnhsVtCkEK6Y41AUf4knux6k+dGylNvnCeGQ20SwwII40GAo/wASTuSe5O5rcpSsXQVXufODSXdm8UJHihkkQHoWjbUFPx3H0qw0oOGycwKh0TB4ZO8bowbPoMe98RUvwTl2e+ddUbwWoZWd5BoaQKdWiJDuASN2ONuldc1Hzr5V26snG5r15ZlrfYx5mvaWqjtn471mpUc83tPqUpSjEpSlBjuIFkVkdQ6MCGVhkEHqCPKqpwW6bhNxHayMz2E7abeRjkwSHJEDsdzGfwnt0q31o8b4VHdQSQTDKSLg+h6hh6ggEfCqwvXmhZaVUPZzxiSSKS1uDm5snEUh/bXH6qb11qM58wat9VzFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFYby6WKN5HOERSzHyCjJrNVJ9r9yw4cYUOHu5YrdT6ytv/wAKtQR/s7geSOW/nGJr59YHXRCNoowe4wM9uo2q314ggVFVEGFQBVHoowPyFe6jrrGo0UpSopSlKBSlV7mPiz61s7U/6VMMluogi6NO/rv7o7mqkzpPRSqwyrBhkjKkEZU6WGR3BBBHYivdVDhsC8NuVgBP2W6wImYltF0FGpGY/wBaFLgn8Qbzq30InZSlKilKUoFKUoKnfv8AZeMWkw2S8R7aXsPETDwk+pyyiuh1zr2lDENtJ+KK+tXX4+Jj/Oui1k5skasUpSjApSlApSlApSvMkgUFmIAAJJOwAG5JPlQeqrXEeerOKQwq7XEw6xW6NMR/aKDSv8RFViW+n4y7CJ3t+GoxXWhKyXRXZgrfghzkZHXHrgWrhfC4bZBHbxJEg7IAMnzJ6k+p3o2VxzLVXmy5O68LusebSWqH+60uagecuLNObHxLa4gEV5HLIZFUoqqkg1GSNmXALDv3q50qbZ+VD4Dncd6+0pUbSlKUClRnG+P21ouq4mSPP3Vzl2x2SMe8x3HQd65/zlzVfPG/hxSWUATXlvdnlj76Bj9TkBsHc7fKqtYm06rG5WzjfMreKbSwUT3e2o9Y4FP4526ZxnCA5O3z3+WuAJaI3vGWaU6p52+9I/mfJRkhV7CpbgHLttbRBLZAqH3sjqxI++7dWY+ZqVSFR0AqtHmR3QnFeCJdwvBMuY3GD2II3DKezA7g1AcI4vLbyiy4gf1vSC4xhLhR69FmHdT16jrV+rQ43waC7iaG4QOh89iD2ZWG6sPMUY+ZO9telc6/7RXHD7mW1YSX9vCUXxP6ePUusIR/T6VKb7HerhwbmK1uv5CZWYfejPuyL/ajb3h9Kjo66iZjulaUpUClKUFR58WWYQQwQSzFLmCWUKAgEaNrOJJCELHGMZ+OKnH45f8AVbGPHk9yob6KhX86kqVWE0iZ3KIPOrRb3llcW6DrIoW4Qep8AswHxWrJw3iMVxGJIJElRujIQR+Xf0rSqqcX5ekgkN5wzEU4y0sA2juR1KsvRZT2cdzv1zTbXbFrs6FSoblTmKK+txNHlTkrJG2zRyLs0bjsQamarUUpSgVRvaXcvKbfhsRIa8Y+Mw/DbR4MvzYHSPPfcVeaoFrIJuN3jH/wtvBEvoZS0jY+OkUZVjc6WO0tkiRY41CIihVUdAo2AFZaUrF1FKUoFQnMfF57d7cRQxyrNJ4ZLyGPS5GYxnSR7xBUfvaR3qbqI5tszLZ3CL9/w2eP0kjHiRn+8oqpbsxtLxRtlsrdPWS5JH0SMmvi8vcRm/nF6kC947SPf4ePLlvooqRl5hP6Phu1AIkFsxJ6BJXQOx8sKxPyqxVXNN7S4hc8FiteI3CgM5RoWDyEyPoZATl233ZHqT9qfEY5RK0Z1AW5XI3yzA4A8/vAfGrPz1ypLPItza6TKq6JI2OkSJnUuG/C6knGdjkjbrUTy9yVcSTRyXiLDFEwcRBldndTlfEK+6qA+9gEkkDpij1sPFYa4Imf3ViY18d+rofD4SkUaHqqKp+IUCoTmvm+KyaONo5JZJQxVU0LsmASWkYD8Q2GT6VY6172ximXTLGki+TqGGfPBFHkV1E9eyG5T5tivjKqI8ckOnWj6Ds+dJDRsVPQ7ZyMdNxmw1gtLOOJdMSJGv7KKFH0FZ6Ftb6dnIL39XxW6L9BdQyfwGKLf4e4w+VYPabaQ3FzmNVMhaGNJE2Ot2C5Drvtr/I1ced+UpJ5VubXR4oXRJG50iRASVIcA6XXLYyMHVjbrWnynyZMJ0uLwIghJMUKtrOsgr4kjAY2BYBR55J7UerXicP6eN/uiJrr5+rebku4j/mvErmMdklEdwv1kXV+dP0RxcbC6sn9Wt5VP0WbFXOtN+IqJ1gGS7IznHRVBCgv5aicDzw3kaPK5pUppuIreQ27z2r5UyzCOCRdEQIUe80re87HAGOzHtVqqvcAfxL3iUp6ieOEeiRQrsPTU7n4k1YajopvXUpSlRmUpSgqbL9h4tFKm0HEcxSr2Fwi6o5MdiyqVOOvXGa6HXOvai2myWUDLQXNtIn9oShdvkzCui1k5skakpSlGBXPuHRiLjXEFPW4itZV/gDxn/Kug1Q/aJCYJ7XiA+5GTBcekUpGiT4I4yfRjRnjmOaNrLStS3vAdm+vY1tisXVNZjuUpSiFRvMN6IreZ26LFIx+CoSa2prsDpua5/7SeL+4lorL412cEHoIl3fVjfBxpA770bK0nv72vXKHDVbhNrBOgZWtY0dG8jGAQa1rccQsgIwn6QgXZW1qk6r2Vg/uTEftalJHmeuHlfn2CXTBcKLScABUY+4+Nv1MnRh6HDenerpWThtWazq0alW05sPQ2N8G/Z8HPy1htH514k5pkjKPc2r21sx0mWR0JRuqmVI9SpGcEay+xKggZqz15kjDAhgCCMEHcEeRFGL6rAjIOQe4r7VXbk1Y97K5nsv3IyskfyhmDKo9FwK+fYOLLst5aSDzktnB+ZjmAz8qC018Jqr/AGLi7dbqyT1W2kY/8U2Pyp/2PMv8+u57tf6slYYz6NHCF1j0YnPfNBsHnaxBIacIobSJXVliYjYiOcjw3wdjg9aTc88NUZN9an+zNG5+ikmor2oW4Th6BFCxx3Ft7oGAEEqjoNgBkfSqMIlHRQPkKPQ4PgP1NZnm1r+Ft4n7TFcaeHxGYnI8aQGOJcbEjI1SEeQGPUVrez3j5S4eG7w09yxZbnp4pXJEBU/yehSdCg4I1HY5zUUtykupB7kmdY8nA2cfEDScd9J868cdk0QmUfehKSofJ43DLj5jHzo77+F464bd+aPX5flfuAv4fEuJwHYtLFOue6yRKCR8GRhVnrjN7zFOl/Ff3GcyK0ckUY1CK2XDg5AyxVsMzeZIG2K6vbcQBAJOoEAhhvkHofWpLzow2rHLPePT5t+lY1mU9CK9Fx5j61E1L1SsD3Sjvn4VpXV5kHJCqASfgNySfKjKuOZQ3OB8eSztV3Et1GW/2cOZnJ9Mqo+ddEqi8jWpuZ34gwIj0mG0BGP1erMk2P32UY/dA86vVWHJltE26FKUqtZWC9tEljeKRQySKVZT0KsMEGs9KDl36zhj/Z7ok2uQLa6O4APSG4P4WHQOdiMb5qwxyd1Ox7g9atlxAkilJFV0YYZWAYEHsQdiKqM/s8gU5tJ7iz/difMf+5kDIPkBU06sfE6jVurN9ob9o14ZyepJqPu+VbuJGeTiwSNASztbQjAHUltWkfSq/ByvPxBSEnumgIIFzcMY1b96C0hCah5PIceQNTTZ+ppHaEne8wZkNvZp9quf2E+4mfxTy/dQbHbOTWW85AcWNwzN4/EJNM3ibAeJCdccMQP3Y8jT65yas3K/KcVkqrHJK2lcYJCKc9WMUQVC37xBb1qw1Yhz3zWtO3B4XjuYQWUMjjdWHRhsVIPQg5FbfDL+9tBi0uCUHSG4BlQeitkOo9M1YubuRZlme54cFbxDqltmOgFsbyRP0Vj3B2PWq2tveE6f0fdhvLQmP7+rTj1zVe5XiuF4nHHnaiffaVpsPaeV2vLOWPzkhInT44GHA9CKsXC+fOHT7R3UQb9hyYm/uSAH8q5zc8Ov411vYT6RudDRSMB6xo2T/DmtBPAuEzpSVc4wygkEdQwYZVh5Gjmjw/BmmfJyfSfcO6xTKwyrBh6EH/CslcBHA4B9xTH/ALN3j/5WFZxaygYS8vkHkt1MP+qjXbwfNHaY9/R3elcK0XP+v3//AKhq8tayEYe7vnHk11Mf+qjGPCeI/j/P/HZeYbWGa3lhuGCxyoysSQuAR1BPcdQfMVw6Hi8ccjW008TyRnSJUZSkg/CwYHCuR1U75zWb9BwH76eIfORmk/5ya2xaRhdHhpo/Z0rj+7jFHocHwGbh7c3NHy7/AIfJbyNRqaRFHmWA/wA6jJXN0VVARbhgzuQV8TSchEB305G7Y6dK3YuEW6nUsEQI6EIu3w22r5xC8YFYoV8S4lOmKMb7nbU2OiDqSdsA1HdlnVZnJMRX19/6WH2fW6SXtzcS6fBtofAy2NJeUh5M58lVV/iNYbyQ8NuIorQG8sp/EKJGyu8LKC7JHv76acsF67NjpveeReFRWtubQHxJIiDOxGNcsoEhb1HvYHwx2rY4ryfZzkOYVjlBys8Q8KRSOhEiYPyO3Wq+Wy8Ra+W2SPVWeF8ftrjPhTKWGzIfcdT0w0bYYHIPapPFR13YQi4jt+LQQ3AlOm3vTGqlm7QzsB+rlO2kg4ffABGKmV9nnDf9XBHkXlI+hbFY6bI4v4whb7j1vEQrSBpD92KMGR2+EaZPzO1e7Pl24viDeIbe1BBFtkGSXByPtDAkKnT9WNz3ParhwrgltbDFvBFCD18NFTPxIG5+NSFXTVk4i1unZ5RAAAAAAMADsB0Ar1SlVoKUpQKUpQKUpQUQxfpW+kWTJsbGQLo6Ca6U5Yvj7yRnA0nYnPWr0BiqN7MbxY4rm1c4nt7qfxF74kkZ0fHUqynY1aeJcYihjaSR1jRRku5wB/7/AAoyisyxc08YFrayTdWAwijq0jnRGo9SxAra4PA8cEKSMXdI0V3PVmVQGY+pIJqocFil4lcpdzK0dpAdVtG4w0smCPtEindUAPuL171e6JJSlKIVzn2jcqspN/ZpmQfziJf6WMD76r/Wrt8RkeVdGpRnjyWx2i1Z6w4ZZ3SSoHjYMrdCP8D5H0rNVt5n9m4eRriwkFtM27xkZikPmyDdWPmPpVNuLHiUGRPw+Rsfjt2WVT+8BnUo9DvUfR8P4rivH9fSfsy0rTW6nY4SxvWPl4RH5k1J8P5U4rcnBiSxjPV5GWSTH7kaHAP9qjdfxHh6Rvm38kfL4k0sdpb/AMvN3G/hx59+ZvIAdPM4q53XssUAfZby4hON9ZWdSfMiQZHyNWTlLlK3sEYRankkwZZn3dyPM9hucAbCpXiXEIreNpZ3WONBlmY4A/8Av0qvA4njsmXJzVmYj01LnC+zK8JAfiKhe/h26qxHozMcVbuVOS7Wwy0QZ5nA1zSHU7fPoo9FxWpZe0axkkVCZY9ZAR5YnjRidgNTD3c9tWKt1GjLky26ZJn67VTidz9l4lDIxxDeJ4DHynjLSQ+g1KZV9SF8qtQNR/H+Dx3cDwS50uOo2KsDlXU9mBAIPpVX4VzLLasLbiRWOXOmOc7RXA7MG6JKe6EjfpnNGuI2tPH+ER3dvJBJ92RcAjqrdVdT2ZTgg+YqN5C4pJPaDxzmeF3hlPm8TFdf8Q0t86ycV5pgt4zJNJGqjpvqLHsqKN2Y9gK0/Z1ayi3kmnQxvdTyz+G3VFc4QMB0bSASO2aJNdLVSlKIUpSgUpSgUpSgUpSgr/H+T7e6kEzeJDOo0iaB2ifT5Fk+8PjVQPK8EPFrdJmlu0a2mdRdSNPiVJI8MofYEKzdq6fVL5+Pg3PDrr8KzmBz5LcIVBPkNarv6iix3XMV9rSt7jGx6VuA0W1Zh9pSlGJSlKBSlKBSlKBXL/ancmS9tbY/yaRvcFexcMI0JHfTqY11CuZe1u0MU1te4/VKrwzEDOkSEMjt5LqXBPqKOjhZrGak27bVu5gEiMjDKsCCD610v2bXzzcNtmkJZwmhmO5JjJTJJ6khQSa5XdcSRQNBEkj7RxoQzOx2UKB69669yTwdrSxt4HxrRBrx01t7z48xkkfKj0/GbUmaRHfqnKwXlnHKhSVEkRuquoYH4qwwaz1gupsDA6mjxYjc6c/5V5etE4xe+HbwhYYrYx4RTod/ELMmfuk4HSuj1SPZ4viXHErrfEtyIlPmlqvh5HoWL1d6E9ylKUQpSlApSlApSlApSlAqJ5r4It7aTWzbeIuAfJhurfJgD8qlqUFM5O401zb/AK0FLiEmK4Q9VlTr8Q2zAjY5qfSQjoagOaeAzRT/AKQsF1TaQs9vnSLiMdMHtKvY9+lbHAOYILtC0Le8u0kTe7JG37MkZ3U5BHkcbVW+tomNSnlvD3FexeDyNadKLyVbhvB5GvJvD2FatKHl1ZjdNXnx28zWJ2AGSQB5nYfU1CXPOFgh0m7hLD8KMJDt6R5NF1WFgFw3nXsXbehqptz1ZDctKAOreBPj450YxW1w/m2xnIWK6hLHopcIx77K+CflQ/plZlvPMV7NwjAhuh2IIyCPI1o0onl1e7HhdpCxeGGGNj+JUVT9QK3WuV86j6UTyobUl3+zt61W+cONG1tmdBrmkIjgTu80nuqB6DOo+gNbPHONwWkfi3EgRegHVmP7KL1ZvQVGcq8InurgcQvkMWkEWls2cxKRvLKP65s+Wwx8haYrGoWLlHgv2OzhgzlkQa2/akb3nb5sTUxSlRoKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUpQK577VOAR6Y76MNDJBIvjTQnRJ9nPuucjZtBKvhgdlI7muhV5kQMCGAIIwQdwQeoI8qDmwPFYdPhz2t9EwyrSqYXKnce/ECrfEiva8y8QB0tYQ6iCQFuV3AwCRlc43H1rbuOT7q1z+jJYzCST9kuAxRCTk+BInvRjc7HI3qBvl4qJ4Zv0Y+qPWjhJ4ZFaKTTnSdQIYMiEZHYjvU6uqt8cx13CVPG+KN92ztY/WS4ZvyRDWJo+Jy/yl5FAO620IJ/3k2T9FFfH5mjXaSC8jYdVNtM35opU/WvsfGppf5tYXcpPQuot1+bSkY+lNy26xR3n7o5uDWZaY3bSzm3Cs7XMruull1BwgITGzDBHUVZfZTw1VtGn8JYxczSTRqFC6YWIEQAHQaFB+danDvZ0ZZTccRl8UuUY20e0I0DCBs+9JpyTvgE9u1dBAxsKObLki3SsNbitp40EsWceJG6Z8tSlc/nXLuFGCeyK3UCNJaoY54nVSVeJf8CACCOua63VZ5n5Khu38UPJb3Gkp40RALIRjRIpBWRfiMjsRSUxZOSVO4VwWaOGJ7S5kti0aM0R/Xw5ZQxUJLllXfGzDapBON8Tj2ktbe4/ehlaMn+CVdvrWCGzveHosMsD3cEahY54ACwRRgLLCTnIAxqXIPpWJ+drJTiR5Im/ZkguFPw/k+tNy6q+VaO+m03ON2P8Ayuf5zQgfXNYZeJcYn92KK2sgdtbsZ3APdUA06h+9tUJx3myGV4oQlx4OtJJJPAmGREwkRI106iS6puQBgGp6Hid9c+7YWjx6tjc3S+GqA9WSLOt28u3TNNywt5cb67RsHLSHi1ojTS3d1ETcXE0h2SMLpSNYx7qamZTjGfdFdeqB5S5ZSyjYa2lmlbXNO/3pH8z5KOgXsKnqrkmdyUpSiFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFKUoFaV51pSgzt1HwrNSlApSlApSlApSlApSlApSlB//9k=- - - >D or even C-
Some may think I'm TheoryMonning but I'm serious. BellyDrum Unburden is just too great to pass up. I believe it slightly just slightly outclasses Azumarill's BellyJet set. Why rely on Priority while Unburden doubles Speed meaning it doesnt reply on a weak 40 BP move and outruns the entire Metagame including ScarfLando-T which is fast asf? Azumarill's Band set outclasses it though with immediate power but this was just a thing I've used and I seriously think that by its one Viable set it'll make it in OUs higher ranks. It does have reliable recovery in Wish making a special set with SubCM with Unburden also viable but I've only utilized BellyUnburden. If anyone wants replays I'll try on Monday. Library is how I play SD as my laptop is KIA
Slupuff is really not good in ou. while unburden is cool i see no reason not to use it over azumaril who not only has priority but also has huge power and even without using bd beforehand is still a threat again thanks to huge power. Not to mention slurpuff is worthless until it bds. c- is really pushing it heck even d is pushing it. Just pointing it out all slurpuff has is return,playrought and Drain punch lol. azu has dual stabs, knock off which is alot better as azu also gets utility. Not to mention azumaril has the better bulk. Anyways im probably beating the dead horse on this but i had to say somthing.
While im here i also saw some talk about chary-x for s rank. Honestly i dont agree with this. I wont lie charizard-x is a fantastic pokemon that cant destroy pretty much every team lol. Despite this he still has quite a few flaws and even more with oras, the biggest being mega altaira and honestly i cant see chary-x moving to s rank until malt goes. We also got mega slowbro and azu is still everywhere which really prevent chary-x from doing all it can. I also find charizard-x really hard to fit on teams as hes a mon you would build around, becuase his typing is otherwise really hard to fit which can really limit him. Hes a good mon n all but a few things need to change before he reclaims his throne at s rank.
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Haxorus is outclassed in every single way by other DDancers. Things like MegaZard X and Altaria do what it does better with access to recovery and for Mold Breaker, Mega Gyarados is here with way better bulk. Not the best time to use Haxorus in OU.Haxorus-> C+ or B-
Haxorus has an amazing attack stat of 147 and a decent speed of 97 plus it gets dragon dance boosting its attack and speed even more. It also great with a choice scarf or band. However I do know that is has some flaws.For starters it has base 76 hp and 70 special defense so, its not the bulkiest pokemon. Plus with fairies added in the game it now has another weakness. But with strong moves like earthquake,dragon claw, outrage, and poison jab in my opinion it deserves at least a C+ rank.
Cresselia should really drop to C- or D Rank. It was used only to take care of Landorus-I and with that banned, there is pretty much no reason to use it over other psychic's that provide more utility such as mew, celebi, and jirachi. Its only saving grace is its ability to check ground types such as Garchomp and even then, better options such as Gliscor exist.
Hmm. I wouldn't say that haxorus should be ranked judged on its performance as a DDer. One of the main (probably only) reasons to be using haxorus is how powerful it is as a SDer - it's one of the few set up sweepers that can break Unaware Clefable and Quagsire at +2 with Poison Jab and Outrage respectively thanks to Mold Breaker which megates unaware (Mega Gyarados can't really beat Clefable because Moonblast deals huge damage and Quagsire should be able to avoid the 2HKO from waterfall at +1 and can 3hko with EQ). Furthermore, it packs much more immediate power - no matter how you look at it, 147 Attack with a Life Orb always put damages 130 Attack with essentially a Life Orb boost. SD is much better on it than DD because EVERY DDer outclasses it - whether it be by typing or coverage. However, Haxorus as a SDer is insanely powerful and is unrivaled by any of Mega Altaria, Mega Zard X, and Mega Gyarados in terms of damage, all of which struggle with Unaware Clefable (literally everywhere) or physically bulky Pokemon in general (Slowbro, which is OHKOed by Outrage at +2, and the like). I'd maybe even push for it to C-, but I'm mainly throwing this out there because there is absolutely no reason to be basing haxorus's placement based on the DD set.
I could see Slurpuff being ranked. Drain Punch was a godsend for it allowing it to beat Heatran, it's main counter. It has good coverage with only two moves along with a fantastic ability in Unburden. Yes, BD Azumarill outclasses it to an extent, but when it can't pick things off with Jet it has to take hits with its much slower speed. Unburden allows Slurpuff to outspeed everything after Sitrus is used, so it doesn't have to take hits like Azu. Slurpuff is pretty team-specific, but isn't that what D rank is about anyway? Not saying it's amazing, but it's not garbage. D seems fine for it.
Also if Kingdra moves up Omastar should move up as well, it's definitely on the level of Kabutops and Swampert.
Also if Kingdra moves up Omastar should move up as well, it's definitely on the level of Kabutops and Swampert.
Char-x struggles with unaware clefable? that's news to me.
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'm not really sure if physically bulky pokemon like slowbro are that much of a problem either..
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 387-456 (98.2 - 115.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 400-472 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Ofc, SD, isn't sweeping, and DD isn't breaking, which is why i want char-x to stay A+ (just so that isn't contradictory with my earlier post).
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 178-211 (45.1 - 53.5%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 87-103 (26.2 - 31.1%) -- 27.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
In the end mgyara breaks through quaggy too, though not as cleanly, and there are other mons that can easily overwhelm quag on the physical side regardless, like adamant LO terrak, pretty much any CB mon, Mega cham/hera/chomp/pinsir, and toxic orb hera, and i may be missing a few. This isn't anything only haxorus can do or something.
Sorry, but I really don't see a place for haxy :<
It does also have a mold breaker taunt. Certainly not enough to move it up a spot but it does have some niche.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
OK, got a lot of noms here, not all of which need to be taken seriously per se. I just want to start discussion on some of these things to at least understand why they are in their given rank. All of these are drops because I think we need those more now, due to rank inflation, or we need more ranks overall (I would certainly be in favor of an S-/A++ rank tbh)
Bisharp A+ --> A
The whole "oh i beat lati and nobody dares defog on me" hype is pretty much over. With its pitiful special bulk, the fact that it relies on 50-50s even against stuff it's super effective against just because of its shitty speed tier, and the fact that similar mons like breloom and diggersby are sitting in B+ even though diggersby is stronger and faster and loom has spore make it not that strong. Its stabs often hit for neutral but not very often for super effective except against ghosts, psychics and fairies (only fairies are relatively common besides latis), so I don't really think it belongs alongside the gods like manaphy, torn-t, and garchomp. It's easily the least scary thing (personally) in the entire A+ rank. The rise of fatchomp, hippo and manaphy hinder its sweepability as it can get walled by these bulky grounds or get burned by scald.
Scizor-Mega A+ --> A
The rise of fatchomp, hippo and manaphy also hurt him, as does the reduction of megagross. Scizor is just so one dimensional; roost and bp are a given, then it has sd, knock, superpower, bug bite, defog, u-turn. No other options and all sets have the same checks and counters. Scald burns are annoying. I like it vs weavile but otherwise I think it belongs near gliscor, another bulky sd sweeper that doesnt take a mega slot, as opposed to with char x, a far scarier sweeper. A bulky sweeper, sure, but the stone puts 20 points into special attack. It's just not the best, especially now.
Latios-Mega C --> unranked or D
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 390-463 (120.7 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 352-416 (108.9 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's weaker on the special side.
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 281-331 (86.9 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 277-327 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Weaker on the physical side.
Mixed is barely stronger if you have very specific EVs, but is that worth a mega slot? If you want the bulk from the stone, use Latias. This thing has no niche, no analysis, no legitimate usage, except for a bulky mixed attacker that lures heatran. Even that role has competition from Altaria. I'm OK with D as opposed to unranked, but C is way too high; there are actually good mons there like Goodra, P2, and Coffin. Even Verlisify knows this; he tried to make it bulky since he noted that it was weaker than regular latios. Kyle Cole summed up why this thing sucks so much, go watch his video if you haven't.
Magnezone B+ --> B
It's just so slow even with a scarf, and the hidden power nerf makes hp fire pack to small a punch, even if they have a ferrothorn. Magnezone is just a bit too niche I feel, and some steels, like tran, completely annihilate it. I think B+ is a bit too high.
Do all rain mons belong so high? B ranks say a bit more team support and that their positives outweigh their negatives. I think they need more than a bit of team support, essentially never used without politoed. At least drop Kabutops, as Starmie outclasses it as a spinner out of rain. So Kabutops B+ --> B.
Tentacruel B --> B-
People have already talked a lot about this one; hazard removal is everywhere to get rid of your tspikes, and most removers (exca is steel, starmie has natural cure, latis and skarm etc have defog) aren't even affected by the tspikes in the first place. Otherwise I'm using starmie, not tentacruel.
In addition, I agree to drop Celebi, and Rotom-W, but those should go through soon.
As for the discussion points:
Charizard X: A+ > S, Yes for sure, this guy is on par with altaria in terms of a dd set. It can't even get burned by scald. Either raise this or drop mega gyara.
Mega Venusaur: A > A+, Yes, a great check to altaria, keldeo, any other fighting type really.
Amoonguss: B > B-, No way. Amoonguss is really underrated, if venu is rising why should he drop? It's quite bulky, spore and clear smog are nice and foul play is an awesome move to have.
Chesnaught: B > B-, I personally like Chesnaught a lot so I don't think it should drop, but I'm gonna be unbiased in my reasoning. I just think reliable recovery on a spikes mon is nice, and spiky shield + leech seed makes ferro jealous, since he only gets protect. No drop.
(also quilladin is the cutest mon ever)
Quagsire: B > B-, Yeah, status wears quag down so much. Sure it checks altaria and other dd sweepers but things like diggersby can still break through. Just not quite bulky enough to be worth it.
Scolipede: B > B+, meh, hazard removal is everywhere, but at the same time baton pass is a ridiculously broken (also skill-less, stupid, and banworthy) strategy, so neutral here.
Reuniclus: B> B+, A stronger clefable? Sign me up. Weak to knock off? ehhh.... that's why I can't decide
Mandibuzz: B- > C+, I like this burd because knock off on walls is cool, but I don't really care either way
Kabutops: B+ > B, already covered this.
EDIT: Just saw the exca nom, but i think we should hold off on that until we discuss lando-t first. Also medicham is way too high, gallade is better than it for sure and if thats why it rose drop gallade instead. :/
Bisharp A+ --> A
The whole "oh i beat lati and nobody dares defog on me" hype is pretty much over. With its pitiful special bulk, the fact that it relies on 50-50s even against stuff it's super effective against just because of its shitty speed tier, and the fact that similar mons like breloom and diggersby are sitting in B+ even though diggersby is stronger and faster and loom has spore make it not that strong. Its stabs often hit for neutral but not very often for super effective except against ghosts, psychics and fairies (only fairies are relatively common besides latis), so I don't really think it belongs alongside the gods like manaphy, torn-t, and garchomp. It's easily the least scary thing (personally) in the entire A+ rank. The rise of fatchomp, hippo and manaphy hinder its sweepability as it can get walled by these bulky grounds or get burned by scald.
Scizor-Mega A+ --> A
The rise of fatchomp, hippo and manaphy also hurt him, as does the reduction of megagross. Scizor is just so one dimensional; roost and bp are a given, then it has sd, knock, superpower, bug bite, defog, u-turn. No other options and all sets have the same checks and counters. Scald burns are annoying. I like it vs weavile but otherwise I think it belongs near gliscor, another bulky sd sweeper that doesnt take a mega slot, as opposed to with char x, a far scarier sweeper. A bulky sweeper, sure, but the stone puts 20 points into special attack. It's just not the best, especially now.
Latios-Mega C --> unranked or D
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 390-463 (120.7 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 8 HP / 4 SpD Abomasnow: 352-416 (108.9 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's weaker on the special side.
252 Atk Life Orb Latios Outrage vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 281-331 (86.9 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Latios Outrage vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 277-327 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Weaker on the physical side.
Mixed is barely stronger if you have very specific EVs, but is that worth a mega slot? If you want the bulk from the stone, use Latias. This thing has no niche, no analysis, no legitimate usage, except for a bulky mixed attacker that lures heatran. Even that role has competition from Altaria. I'm OK with D as opposed to unranked, but C is way too high; there are actually good mons there like Goodra, P2, and Coffin. Even Verlisify knows this; he tried to make it bulky since he noted that it was weaker than regular latios. Kyle Cole summed up why this thing sucks so much, go watch his video if you haven't.
Magnezone B+ --> B
It's just so slow even with a scarf, and the hidden power nerf makes hp fire pack to small a punch, even if they have a ferrothorn. Magnezone is just a bit too niche I feel, and some steels, like tran, completely annihilate it. I think B+ is a bit too high.
Do all rain mons belong so high? B ranks say a bit more team support and that their positives outweigh their negatives. I think they need more than a bit of team support, essentially never used without politoed. At least drop Kabutops, as Starmie outclasses it as a spinner out of rain. So Kabutops B+ --> B.
Tentacruel B --> B-
People have already talked a lot about this one; hazard removal is everywhere to get rid of your tspikes, and most removers (exca is steel, starmie has natural cure, latis and skarm etc have defog) aren't even affected by the tspikes in the first place. Otherwise I'm using starmie, not tentacruel.
In addition, I agree to drop Celebi, and Rotom-W, but those should go through soon.
As for the discussion points:
Charizard X: A+ > S, Yes for sure, this guy is on par with altaria in terms of a dd set. It can't even get burned by scald. Either raise this or drop mega gyara.
Mega Venusaur: A > A+, Yes, a great check to altaria, keldeo, any other fighting type really.
Amoonguss: B > B-, No way. Amoonguss is really underrated, if venu is rising why should he drop? It's quite bulky, spore and clear smog are nice and foul play is an awesome move to have.
Chesnaught: B > B-, I personally like Chesnaught a lot so I don't think it should drop, but I'm gonna be unbiased in my reasoning. I just think reliable recovery on a spikes mon is nice, and spiky shield + leech seed makes ferro jealous, since he only gets protect. No drop.
(also quilladin is the cutest mon ever)
Quagsire: B > B-, Yeah, status wears quag down so much. Sure it checks altaria and other dd sweepers but things like diggersby can still break through. Just not quite bulky enough to be worth it.
Scolipede: B > B+, meh, hazard removal is everywhere, but at the same time baton pass is a ridiculously broken (also skill-less, stupid, and banworthy) strategy, so neutral here.
Reuniclus: B> B+, A stronger clefable? Sign me up. Weak to knock off? ehhh.... that's why I can't decide
Mandibuzz: B- > C+, I like this burd because knock off on walls is cool, but I don't really care either way
Kabutops: B+ > B, already covered this.
EDIT: Just saw the exca nom, but i think we should hold off on that until we discuss lando-t first. Also medicham is way too high, gallade is better than it for sure and if thats why it rose drop gallade instead. :/
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SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Bisharp is easy A+ and should never be in a different rank than that unless the metagame changes. Abusing Defiant was never a hype it is just a thing that makes Bisharp so threatening by only being in the field without even needing to switch in. Even without Defiant in play, SD sets are very deadful and though Tankchomp is annoying it is not hard to overwhelm to a point where a +2 sucker punch beats it (does like 70%) Offensive teams don't have many switchins for Bisharp and the list of pokemon that can take a +2 Sucker Punch is extremely small (for example mega lopunny takes 75%, mega diancie takes 70%, scarftar takes 50%) and limited to either pokemon that can't switch in against Iron Head (Mega Diancie, Scarftar) or pokemon that are called Keldeo or Cobalion. Bisharp is one of the pokemon that is in A+ and never should be moved up or down, just like Talonflame and Gengar.
Offensive SD doesn't do that well I have to agree but Bulky SD is awesome right now because it takes on so many threats it is not even funny: Azumarill, Weavile, Mega Altaria, Clefable, Mega Metagross, Latios, Landorus-T, Gardevoir, Kyurem-B, Serperior. Mega Scizor just checks 80% of the meta and at the same time it can threaten both offensive teams with SD + Bullet Punch and bulkier teams because of great bulk + SD + recovery, which means it can set up against many pokemon such as non-whirlwind Hippowdon and Latias.
Will post thoughts on Zard X, Reuniclus and Amoonguss later.
p2
Banned deucer.
I don't even get why you would even consider dropping Bisharp. It's pretty much the face of HO in oras. It does such a good job of punishing plays that it turns checks into liabilities. I get that Sucker Punch is easily resisted by Fairies and Fighting types, but its still really powerful. Keldeo and MLopunny take like 30% from one, but when you factor in hazards or a +2, it's insane. Lop loses over 60% and Keldeo takes at least 55%. It's just such a good offensive mon because it pretty much puts in work against every matchup, even if Quagsire and Sableye are weakened, it just mops up Stall teams and Balance doesn't like it either. Its also a bitch to switch into on offense because you run the massive risk of letting it get to +2 or letting it smack your switchin with Iron Head or Knock Off. And I don't see how low SpD is an argument when it has sets specifically to bypass that issue, sure it hits less harder but it completely ruins Defoggers outside of like Mandibuzz. I'd write more but I'm in the bw suspect tour rn
Just because people have been discussing Rotom-W and Charizard X recently, I figured I would share this replay. I remember how some guy was saying that Rotom-W was effective against stall, and although I wouldn't use that exact wording, I agree it is a nice glue mon against fat teams and I'm pretty sure this replay demonstrates the point he was trying to make. Also, I think this shows how most teams in the metagame are just hanging by a thread the entire game against Charizard X and when that one or two pokemon get sufficienly weakened it's good game.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-238581508
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-238581508
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-238583719
Bringing support for Stunfisk to D rank.
What a surprising discovery. With high speed electric mons and bird spam rampant I agree that his niche on offense is real. Deals beautifully with a +1 Mega Manectric in the replay.
Bringing support for Stunfisk to D rank.
What a surprising discovery. With high speed electric mons and bird spam rampant I agree that his niche on offense is real. Deals beautifully with a +1 Mega Manectric in the replay.
Going to address these two as to why they should stay in their respective ranks.
How exactly does the rise of fatchomp hurt scizor? Unless it has fire blast scizor can just repeatedly attack it and roost when necessary. Yeah when it's u-turning it takes some more residual damage but this isn't something that is unique to scizor. Same with hippo. Hippo can't really do anything to it besides phazing it. Yeah rise in usage of manaphy can be a problem but I really don't think just one mon becoming a bit more popular means we need to drop something that loses to it. Metagross is still meta defining as ever so I don't really know where you're getting "reduction of metagross", and don't pull up some meaningless usage stats because usage =/= viability. And btw scizor is not one dimensional at all. It has a ton of variety. It can run agility baton pass, SD 3 attacks, bulky SD, defog, or u-turn. Being one dimensional also isn't even that bad in scizor's case, considering how good it is at doing its job of walling mega gross and blanket checking fairies among other things. Scald burns are annoying? Really!?!? Also idk why you're even comparing gliscor vs scizor, they literally have nothing in common besides swords dance. Same deal with charizard x. Obviously charizard x is more scary as a sweeper, it has dragon dance, flare blitz, and a much better offensive typing. Once again, you can't compare them because outside of having the ability to sweep, they literally have nothing in common.
As for magnezone, I think it should stay at B+. Lol @ magnezone is too slow with a scarf. If you call outspeeding the base 110s everywhere in the tier 'slow', I really don't know what to say. Hidden power nerf has always been there ever since XY and it's not like an attack you'll be spamming so the power drop isn't significant at all. If you really want more power just run specs lol. Magnezone may be niche but it's niche is so fucking good. Magnezone + basically anything that wants steels removed (dd altaria, beedrill) is an extremely good core and it really forces the opponent to play safe. Also the fact that heatran beats magnezone doesn't mean it should be dropped lol, and even then hp ground magnezone is still an option if you really need tran removed.
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