CAP 20 CaP 20 - Part 14 - Flavour Ability Discussion

[DHR-107]

The playtest has nearly started, and now we need to finalize the last flavour details for the CAP - those that will have absolutely no bearing on how it plays/is playing on PS! Still, these details will bring Naviathan together as a believable Pokemon, so contributions and good discussion are still very needed. This ability should have little significance competitively, and should be all about what makes sense on the Pokemon.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Fairy Aura
Forecast
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Slow Start
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Arena Trap
Drizzle
Drought
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Prankster
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost​

If you are curious as to why these abilities are banned, check out this thread to learn more. Remember, the ability we choose here is an Ineffective Ability, meaning that it should be inferior to both Water Veil and Heatproof (Naviathan's competitive abilities).

There's no official leader for this discussion, but please look to the mods/project leaders in general for guidance and judgement calls on what counts as ineffective. (But if you're not sure if an ability is ineffective or not, err on the side of caution - it probably is inappropriate.)

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Naviathan

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Concept:
Name: Use the Boost to Get Through!

General Description: A sweeper with several boosting options that result in completely different checks and counters. While each set should be viable in its own right, the unpredictability of this Pokemon should make it much better than any one set alone.

Type: Water / Steel
Abilities: Water Veil / Heatproof / ???
Stats: 103 HP / 110 Atk / 90 Def / 95 SpA / 65 SpD / 97 Spe
Height: 10 feet / 3.048 Meters
Weight: 1124.36 pounds / 510 KG
Egg Groups: Water1, Field
Movepool:

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Final Submission
Brief Overview: This submission tries to include a bunch of flavor with few truly viable moves beyond the mandatory move list. The movepool has standout flavor moves such as Metronome, Splash, Brine, and Self Destruct. Beyond a lot of Water and Steel moves, this submission also is fairly heavy with Flying and Dragon type moves, making reference to the feather oars and dragon-like features of the design. Since there was freedom in the choice of recovery move, Slack Off was chosen to avoid the blandness of Recover. Overall, the moves were carefully chosen and organized to mimic an actual GameFreak movepool, with an appropriate number of Level Up moves spaced in a set pattern and several moves that are repeated between Level Up, Tutor/Egg Moves, and TM/HMs (within the code section, it is specified most clearly which moves are repeated).

This submission contains 70 individual moves and was created/assembled by both HeaLnDeaL and myself. In the event that this submission wins, please credit both of us onsite.

Mandatory Move*

Level Up Moves (19)

4-4-6-4-4-6 Pattern

--Peck
--Dragon Breath
--Gust
--Splash
--Scary Face
03 Splash
07 Water Gun
11 Metal Claw
17 Scary Face
21 Metal Sound
25 Bubblebeam
31 Drill Peck*
35 Flash Cannon*
39 Slack Off*
45 Brine
49 Icicle Crash*
54 Wide Guard
60 Hydro Pump
64 Hurricane
70 Iron Head
74 Self Destruct

Slack Off was chosen as the flavorful recovery move, mostly because Recover is just boring. If that logic doesn't work for you, consider that pretty much everything that learns Slack Off is pretty large and/or fat-ish (with the exception of the Infernape line). This CAP to me seems to fit that bill.

In terms of notable flavor here, the big standouts are Splash, Brine, and Self Destruct. Splash is there because it's boss for flavor, and ships are splashy. Brine is the most flavorful water move imaginable for a sea dwelling boat. Self Destruct is included to reference the burning of Viking ships for funerals.

Going all the way up to level 74 for level up moves is a fair bit higher than most other submissions. However, there definitely is precedence of GameFreak Pokemon leveling up past level 60 even within single evolutionary lines. For random examples, Aerodactyl goes all the way up to level 81 and Tyranitar goes up to 82.

TM Moves (29) and HM Moves (5)

02: Dragon Claw
04: Calm Mind*
06: Toxic
10: Hidden Power
07: Hail
12: Taunt*
13: Ice Beam
14: Blizzard
15: Hyper Beam
17: Protect
18: Rain Dance
21: Frustration
27: Return
32: Double Team
42: Facade
44: Rest
45: Attract
48: Round
49: Echoed Voice
55: Scald*
67: Retaliate
68: Giga Impact
87: Swagger
88: Sleep Talk
90: Substitute*
91: Flash Cannon*
93: Wild Charge*
94: Secret Power (ORAS)
100: Confide

There's not much to really say about the TMs. Basically the list includes the obligatory moves learned by every fully evolved Pokemon, plus the required moves, plus some basic flavor moves. Pretty much every Water type not named Keldeo learns Ice Beam / Blizzard, whereas Hail was included to make more sense next to the required move of Icicle Crash. Dragon Claw is there because Shipmon looks like a Dragon. Rawr.

HM03: Surf
HM04: Strength
HM05: Waterfall*
HM06: Rock Smash
HM07:Dive

Every current HM except Cut and Fly is included. Surf is needed because of the Water typing, Strength because the thing looks beefy and strong, Waterfall is required, Rock Smash for similar reasons to Strength, and Dive for some water-dragon references (Diving Nessy Boat as an omage to the fantastic second place concept art). Its claws don't look particularly suited for cutting, so Cut was omitted. Though I think it would be positively amazing for this thing to learn Fly, sadly I don't think the flavor fits as six feathers can't really lift up a boat.

Egg Moves (14); Egg Groups: Water 1, Field

Egg Groups: Water 1, Field

Bite (Naviathan and friends)
Dragon Dance* (Lapras and friends)
Feather Dance (Blaziken and friends)
Feint (Kabutops and friends)
Haze (Greninja and friends)
Ice Fang (Granbull and friends)
Icicle Spear (Dewgong and friends)
Iron Tail (Naviathan and friends)
Metronome (Granbull and friends)
Refresh* (Lapras and friends)
Thunder Fang (Granbull and friends)
Water Pulse (Lapras and friends)
Whirlpool (Lapras and friends)
Wide Guard (Naviathan and friends)


Ice Fang and Thunder Fang are included because it's a Dragon-like boat so fang moves are appropriate (and another electric flavor move was needed so that Wild Charge wouldn't be all alone). Feather Dance is a reference to the feather oars. Icicle Spear is a flavorful ice move that by and large is not as reliable as Ice Punch/Icicle Crash and on average not as strong as Icicle Crash.

Tutor Moves (9 )

Dragon Pulse
Ice Punch*
Icy Wind
Iron Defense
Iron Head*
Iron Tail
Snore
Thunder Punch
Water Pulse

Pretty much everything gets Snore, many Water types get Icy Wind, and pretty much every Steel type gets Iron Defence. If Ice Punch is required and it gets Wild Charge, then Thunder Punch only made sense as well (and the drop in power between Wild Charge and Thunder Punch is significant).

Art:

Sprite:

3D Render:

 

[Empress]

I'm actually not sure if we need a flavor ability. Water Veil is plenty flavorful for a Water-type to begin with, even if it does serve a competitive purpose for Naviathan.

 

[Dogfish44]

Eh, it's flavoursome, but whilst we have an ability that's flavour for a Water Type, we don't have a huge Steel influence. I'm going to put forward Heavy Metal and Light Metal as options, both of which give a more steel... hint?

 

[MQJinx]

I'm thinking of Friend Guard for Naviathan's flavor ability. Friend Guard fits in with Naviathan learning Wide Guard, plus being a ship it can protect passengers and other Naviathan in its fleet from harm.

 

[Swede]

I want to throw the idea Rivalry into the mix, mainly because it fits in with the combativeness side of Nordic longships. It's easy to envision two opposing members of the same gender duking it out on the battlefield to get their chance of glory. Rivalry is also a pretty horrid ability competitive-wise, since most people don't select a preferred gender anyways in the teambuilder (or know what gender their opponent's pokemon will be). There's really no point of choosing an ability that is so 50/50 with usefulness when better options are available.

 

[Cretacerus]

Yeah, Heavy Metal or Light Metal would work really well as flavour ability, since the design itself doesn't doesn't have too many steel type attributes, and could otherwise easily be interpreted as a wooden ship. Both would make sense, due to Naviathan's massive appearance and stance, while at the same time keeping afloat in the water. On the other hand, I don't think we really need any further references to the Water typing, since the design and Primary Ability both do a great job at portraying that :)

Alternatively, Battle Armor would fit very nicely as well, though it does have significantly more competitive value than the above two abilities.

 

[The Avalanches]

I believe Rain Dish could be fitting as a flavor ability. Many sea-based Pokemon such as Tentacruel and Pelipper have it, and it could fit Naviathan quite well, as it's a sturdy ship designed to weather storms without being that effective -- certainly not to the point where it could be chosen over Water Veil or Heatproof.

 

[Mova]

I wasn't sure if we needed a Hidden Ability at first, but Light Metal and Heavy Metal seem like good choices, as the CAP doesn't have that many Steel-type attributes, although the shields appear metallic enough, don't they? Rain Dish could work as well if Naviathan wanted to store rain water on its back while it wasn't carrying goods or other living beings.

 

[plaindrome]

Light Metal is probably better than Heavy Metal, since Naviathan is a boat, and boats, in general, are supposed to float. Also, like others said above, it has little competitive value, and helps add flavour for Naviathan's steel typing.

 

[FlareTheKid]

Possibly having Shell Armor? Shell armor is a decent flavor ability seen on both steel and water types.

 

[Charniodiscus]

Unnerve, maybe? Scary, dragonlike pokémon like Haxorus and Tyranitar get it. This guy certainly looks rather stern.

 

[BigWigs]

I like SwedishBiscuit's idea of Rivalry, works with the whole viking theme. Although it's often given to lions and such, the Axew line (other Dragons, at least design wise) gets it so it could make sense.

Some other possibilities:

Hydration has precedence in the similar Lapras, as well as several other Water Pokemon related to the deeper sea such as Gorebyss, although whether it's too competitively viable or not is up to debate. Swift Swim is on the same boat (no pun intended), although that one is much more competitive.

Keen Eye could work for a sailing Pokemon, as it would be able to, say, spot land for its crew. Perhaps Inner Focus as well, as it can tie in with Calm Mind well.

I want to say Rock Head, as it's given to plenty of Steel types as well as the similar Dragons, but Naviathan doesn't have many recoil moves to use with it.

That's all I got for now.

 

[Deck Knight]

Going to second Inner Focus, as Naviathan seems like a pretty tough-minded Pokemon.

Marvel Scale is also an ability with some flavor merit, as Naviathan has a strong hide. I suppose this would make a CroCAP stronger, but at the cost of burn immunity or fire resistance.

Rock Head actually would be competitive because it would get rid of Wild Charge recoil, a move on the main set.

Overcoat would also be a cool flavor ability, and is only relevant to Hail.

 

[Phione]

Swift Swim.

Hell no. Swift Swim is a great ability and would let Naviathan go no dance with a Politoed, which we do NOT want to happen.

 

[nyttyn]

reminder: flavor ability should be completely or nearly useless in a competitive sense, this is not secondary. marvel scale, rock head, hydration, swift swim are all too good.

 

[sparktrain]

I'm really leaning towards an ability that will place more emphasis on Naviathan's Steel typing. Light Metal and Heavy Metal are the obvious ones, and I'm currently leaning towards Light Metal for the reason plaindrome mentioned earlier.

Rain Dish, Keen Eye, Unnerve, and Friend Guard have all stood out to me as being both cool flavor options and not very helpful abilities competitively (best to stay on the safe side; some of the abilities mentioned before have been a bit too good). None of these four are particularly steel-y, however.

 

[Exclaimer]

Out of all of these, I like Light Metal and Inner Focus the most. Light Metal gives some nice flavor because, at least in my opinion, it makes it seem like Naviathan is lighter in water, therefore much less susceptible to toppling over (weird I know but I went with it).

Inner Focus ties in with Calm Mind well too, and Calm Mind is rather secondary as far as flavor goes right now, it needs some love.

All in all... I'm leaning towards no flavor ability. Heatproof is already a really nice flavor tidbit, fitting Water/Steel perfectly. A steel type thing covered in water is bound to be less affected by fire, so it makes tons of sense already, and fits the Steel flavor.

 

[Mova]

A lot of you are making really good points about No Flavor Ability, as I personally think the Abilities we have could be good enough for Naviathan. If that's the case, Heatproof should be the Hidden Ability because any Pokemon with two standard Abilities always has a Hidden Ability, even if they evolve into something with only one Ability, such as Trapinch.

Take Brattler and Malaconda for example. If I recall correctly, I think Infiltrator turned into their Hidden Ability because they don't have a third Ability. Not that it matters, but it bothers me for some reason.

Anyway, Inner Focus fits the flavor behind the special-attacking sets very well, as this Pokemon usually seems to be a calm one.

 

[Burt Racecar]

How about Steadfast?

Naviathan looks like they would certainly hold their ground well. It fits nicely from the flavour perspective and doesn't outclass water veil or heatproof.

 

[acidphoenix]

I like Overcoat, as the sides of the boat should be sturdy and tough, and it's nearly irrelevant, and Steadfast, for the reasons Toebag said. Otherwise I like Light Metal, and if not that then No Flavor Ability.
Maybe Sturdy also for the same reason as Overcoat, if it's not overly strong.

 

[Scipio323]

Hi everyone, first time poster, long time lurker. I wanted to just throw in my two cents here in anticipation of hopefully participating in the next CAP for the first time. Now, I'm not sure how viable it could possibly be (particularly for a CM set,) but I think it's hard to deny that Battle Armor is very flavorful for what Naviathan brings to the table.

Secondly, (and this is purely my inexperience talking, so please forgive me for breaking the rules on my first post) can anyone explain to me why Truant is banned as a flavor ability? It hasn't been a signature ability since Gen 5, and honestly, a becalmed ship (that is, one without wind) is pretty helpless to act.

 

[mcFlareon]

Supporting Battle Armor as well since it really fits Naviathan's design in flavour and encompasses the Steel type and Water type equally. As for concept, it at least throws the Calm Mind concept a bone just a little bit to balance out the slight edge that I'm seeing to the Dragon Dance.

Keen Eye also works since you need good eyes to travel the seas and it's pretty much like a built in periscope for Naviathan. Unnerve also works with it's appearance/significance of an incoming battle and flavour-wise is Intimidate without the useful of the actual Intimidate ability.

Throwing in Own Tempo as a suggestion as travelling like a ship gives the idea of having to be in rhythm with the waves and not being seasick. A large Pokemon like Avalugg gets it so think of it like that. Maybe the rhythm can link into the dance part of Dragon Dance somehow? It's pretty passive and the at least you won't have to worry about Hurricane confusion chances.

 

[nyttyn]

?_? just want to post to chime in that light metal and heavy metal make like, zero sense.

light metal, of the pokemon that get it, one is a agile bug/steel, one of them can levitate off the ground (metagross line) and is also somewhat swift (access to bullet punch), and one is registeel, which is literally hollow and has clear body as well (which is synonymous with metagross).

heavy metal on the other hand makes no sense by virtue of it needing to be actually able to swim, due to being a boat. unless we want to have another titanic on our hands.

 

[Dogfish44]

Light Metal makes fundamental sense because it's a Steel Type. We know that it's decently mobile (To use Dragon Dance it would likely need to be mobile) as well.

Heavy Metal could be applied thrice over to Naviathan and it would still be able to float, if PSG's calcs on that are right (~4500 kg would sink us).

For other abilities, I like Friend Guard, Keen Eye, and Battle Armour as options. Still prefer Light Metal though.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

?_? just want to post to chime in that light metal and heavy metal make like, zero sense.

light metal, of the pokemon that get it, one is a agile bug/steel, one of them can levitate off the ground (metagross line) and is also somewhat swift (access to bullet punch), and one is registeel, which is literally hollow and has clear body as well (which is synonymous with metagross).

heavy metal on the other hand makes no sense by virtue of it needing to be actually able to swim, due to being a boat. unless we want to have another titanic on our hands.

I have to disagree with your stance on how light metal makes 0 sense flavor wise, Scizor isn't really much of a steel type design wise, as its design focuses a lot more on its Bug type than its steel type (Same case with Naviathan, just replace bug with water), Metagross pretty much relies on Magnetism in order to float off the ground and isn't really that agile, and not to mention the fact that another levitating steel type, Bronzong (Which Ironically has the same typing as Metagross) getting heavy metal kinda negates this fact, and your point on Registeel is kinda unfair considering how Registeel is a legendary Pokemon, and of course will have phenomenal lore behind , its kinda like saying Magician makes no sense on Delphox because it doesn't have the ability to warp dimensions unlike Hoopa, Dogfish44 also gave some good points on why it does make sense flavor wise

However, I strongly agree on your stance on heavy metal