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CAP Viability Ranking Thread (B Rank Filtering)
- Thread starter Tadasuke
- Start date
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Why is it that whenever someone posts for Colo to go up, I feel I need to post for it to go down. Its a good Pokemon, sure, but it is nowhere near as good as the other S guys. It can do a lot, but so many good guys can handle it easily. Tomo and Mega Altaria in particular can just pick it apart. Other good guys such as Clefable, Mega Sizor, Sylveon, Keldeo, Mega Lopunny and Mega Venusaur can all check or counter it. Furthermore, by far its most popular set is Assault Vest. Even with some investment, without a vest, it cannot stop special attackers. This is a massive detrament for it, as it means that so often it is a Dark resist that cannot reliably absorb Knock Off.
Compared to the other S rank Pokemon, Colossoil is nowhere even near as reliably useful, and I find it hard to justify it for A+, much less S. (So yeah, that does mean I am totally saying it should be A [or even A-])
On a different note, can we like, not, have S-. S really should be those mons that are just a cut above the rest. If it is not really as good as other S rank mons, then that should mean it is A+, not S-. No other tier has S divided up in thier rankings for this very reason (well, except ubers, but that is with an S+ for P-Groudon, and if you know anything about ubers, you know that is an exception that nothing here even comes close to). There are so many ranks as it is that this just feels so unnecessary.
Compared to the other S rank Pokemon, Colossoil is nowhere even near as reliably useful, and I find it hard to justify it for A+, much less S. (So yeah, that does mean I am totally saying it should be A [or even A-])
On a different note, can we like, not, have S-. S really should be those mons that are just a cut above the rest. If it is not really as good as other S rank mons, then that should mean it is A+, not S-. No other tier has S divided up in thier rankings for this very reason (well, except ubers, but that is with an S+ for P-Groudon, and if you know anything about ubers, you know that is an exception that nothing here even comes close to). There are so many ranks as it is that this just feels so unnecessary.
I do honestly feel like Colossoil should be S. When I'm building teams, I look at Colossoil and I'm honestly seeing no reason to not use it, because it's such a good filler. It being weak to other S mons isn't a reason to for it to not be where it is either. For example, look at Tomohawk. It loses to Mega Garde, Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross, but it's still S because of what it can do not what it can't do; should that mean we drop Tomo to A+, because it has a lot of other checks? (I still think Tomohawk isn't that good in ORAS). Nothing else can do what Colossoil can, and it does that role to perfection
It has also lost competition with Landorus as an offensive Ground-type, meaning that Colossoil will most likely replace the lost Landorus slot, if not already on there. It's honestly a great Pokemon right now that you have barely any drawbacks from using.
It has also lost competition with Landorus as an offensive Ground-type, meaning that Colossoil will most likely replace the lost Landorus slot, if not already on there. It's honestly a great Pokemon right now that you have barely any drawbacks from using.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Ok the changes look good however Mega Metagross should honestly rise from S- to S, as it checks many of the S Rank mons such as Mega Altaria, Mega Gardevoir and Tomohawk.
Another nom I missed out on:
A+ ------> S-
Auromoth is like the Jack of all Trades, Master of All. It can run a variety of sets thanks to its expansive movepool, and your opponent will never know exactly what set you are, just by team preview. Sets from the top of my head are Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, Mixed Attacker, and Life Orb All out Attacker (Special or Physical).
It has a hard time against Mega Metagross and Colossoil, but can easily beat the other S rank mons, and should be placed there.
Another nom I missed out on:
A+ ------> S-
Auromoth is like the Jack of all Trades, Master of All. It can run a variety of sets thanks to its expansive movepool, and your opponent will never know exactly what set you are, just by team preview. Sets from the top of my head are Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, Mixed Attacker, and Life Orb All out Attacker (Special or Physical).
It has a hard time against Mega Metagross and Colossoil, but can easily beat the other S rank mons, and should be placed there.
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Eh, I disagree on Aurumoth. It's a very good Pokemon, yes, but it suffers from certain metagame trends such as Colossoil, Haze-o-Hawk (Auru beats it but it removes boosts which cold-stops most sweeps), MegaGross, Mega Scizor, and the many powerful special attackers that can handle it fairly well. It certainly deserves A+ for being extremely unpredictable, and almost 100% consistently having immense surprise value, but it's just not up there with the S-ranks.
As long as I've played CAP; three years ago, to now, I've always found Colossoil to be an S rank CAPmon. As Queen pointed out, it's literally one of the easiest things to just slap onto a team. It normally runs Assault Vest, but Lo/Flame Orb is viable as well. Plus, most of it's normal "checks" can't even switch in on the offensive Guts variant.
252 Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 216-255 (70.3 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 186-219 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Adamant is unlikely, but rip switch in)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 147-174 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Godohawk and Skarmory are probably the most reliable checks for this (defensively, including offensive variants), but let's just forget it's checks and counters for a moment. Dark type rapid spinner + Free status absorber/hazards check. Having a spinner that counters spin-blockers at the same time is a great advantage to any team. Plus, STAB knock off is always a plus. Once again concurring with Queen's statement, there isn't anything that does Colossoil's job better than itself. It has it's drawbacks, but has some super niche roles as well. Besides, don't all mons have their weak points? Colossoil deserves it's S rank, and I don't deem it likely to move from that rank anytime soon.
252 Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 216-255 (70.3 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 186-219 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (Adamant is unlikely, but rip switch in)
252+ Atk Guts Colossoil Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 147-174 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Godohawk and Skarmory are probably the most reliable checks for this (defensively, including offensive variants), but let's just forget it's checks and counters for a moment. Dark type rapid spinner + Free status absorber/hazards check. Having a spinner that counters spin-blockers at the same time is a great advantage to any team. Plus, STAB knock off is always a plus. Once again concurring with Queen's statement, there isn't anything that does Colossoil's job better than itself. It has it's drawbacks, but has some super niche roles as well. Besides, don't all mons have their weak points? Colossoil deserves it's S rank, and I don't deem it likely to move from that rank anytime soon.
Vryheid
fudge jelly
Colossoil is indeed one of the original CAP gods along with Tomohawk and Cyclohm, but the fact that Tomohawk exists means that it always is going to have a difficult time doing more than revenge killing Pokemon and acting as a pivot. I think it was much more infamous in early CAP becuase it was an extremely effective check to Mega Mawile and Aegislash, two Pokemon that were practically everywhere in the tier. It's definitely still good these days as an alternative to Bisharp, and being able to bounce back hazards is always great, but with Tomohawk, Mega Sableye and all the new fairy types hanging around I don't know if its necessarily worthy of an S ranking. It's no longer some overwhelming threat that every team has to prepare for, it's simply a useful utility attacker that can not only remove hazards but check a number of threats.
I have to wonder how much Naviathan's introduction will influence this metagame in general. Being resistant to dark/ice/fairy/psychic and having reliable recovery may make it the premier partner to Tomo/Chlom as the ultimate three Mon bulky offense core. Tomo can even BP Bulk Up out of its checks to make Naviathan damn near unstoppable. I can honestly see it getting an A or A+ viability and several Fairy types losing ranks because of this.
I have to wonder how much Naviathan's introduction will influence this metagame in general. Being resistant to dark/ice/fairy/psychic and having reliable recovery may make it the premier partner to Tomo/Chlom as the ultimate three Mon bulky offense core. Tomo can even BP Bulk Up out of its checks to make Naviathan damn near unstoppable. I can honestly see it getting an A or A+ viability and several Fairy types losing ranks because of this.
Given that Naviathan's primary weaknesses are Taunt users, Special sweepers, and bulky offensive Mons (aka the entirety of CAP), probably very little. He is good against Pyroak though, so at least he has that going for him.
Vryheid
fudge jelly
After a Calm Mind boost most special attacks are doing little to nothing against him. Tanky Mollux, Cyclohm, and Tomohawk fail to 2HKO after a boost, and even Stratagem and Krilowatt fail to do so after two boosts. Not to mention a solid fairy counter is that can stallbreak is so desperately needed in this meta, handling the likes of Clefable and Sylveon that most CAP players have trouble with. Tomohawk+Neviathan+Cyclohm is a very potent core against almost all of the metagame's threats, especially if screens are being shuffled around in the process.
Not that this isn't a perfectly good discussion, but this thread i about discussing the viability of Pokemon in the metagame, and should be based on experiences, not theory. It will be a while still before Naviathan has seen enough play for it to be ranked, and until then, we should keep talk of it out of this thread. With that said, if someone wants to make a discussion thread about it, they are more than welcome to.
What does this thing even do? Ice is a horrible type defensively which renders an otherwise usable 200 Special Defense moot, not to mention that hazards (especially rocks) wear it down quickly. It also doesn't have enough offensive presence (Neutral nature can't OHKO uninvested Tomohawk with Ice Beam of all things without a boosting item), it's very slow, it lacks any form of reliable recovery (lol ResTalk) and new introductions like Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, and Mega Lopunny plague on it, and the rise in popularity of old threats like Mega Scizor isn't helping it either.
Mega Charizard Y just plain outclasses this thing in every way - even in being a sun supporter. This thing has little offensive presence outside of sun, is forced to hold a Heat Rock without any reliable recovery, and is just fodder once it has set up sun. The only plausible use is supporting Mega Houndoom, which is not enough to be ranked.
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Okay, hey guys, I looked at the Viability Ranking, and I was shocked to see Pyroak and Plasmanta below Arghonaut and Mega Sharpedo. So, I propose this.
B- -> A/A-
My first reason is that Pyroak is used quite commonly on teams. I know that usage does not really equate to how good a 'mon is, but there are good reasons why people are using Pyroak. Pyroak pretty much completely stops two of the most prominent Mega Pokemon in the CAP Metagame, Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross. Mega Metagross can deal with all of its checks and counters with some possible move or another, but it cannot deal with Pyroak at all. I think the same goes for Mega Altaria, too. Pyroak also has great bulk, great defensive typing, reliable recovery, access to Leech Seed, and it stops many Pokemon apart from the two Megas I just mentioned.
I'll talk about Plasmanta later.
B- -> A/A-
My first reason is that Pyroak is used quite commonly on teams. I know that usage does not really equate to how good a 'mon is, but there are good reasons why people are using Pyroak. Pyroak pretty much completely stops two of the most prominent Mega Pokemon in the CAP Metagame, Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross. Mega Metagross can deal with all of its checks and counters with some possible move or another, but it cannot deal with Pyroak at all. I think the same goes for Mega Altaria, too. Pyroak also has great bulk, great defensive typing, reliable recovery, access to Leech Seed, and it stops many Pokemon apart from the two Megas I just mentioned.
I'll talk about Plasmanta later.
So... Are we gonna be fixing this any time soon? I know some of the CAP members have been working on another viability thread, which we really need right now as this thread is a bunch of hot mess.
Just look at Excadrill sitting in B- down there. That's disgusting, when it's still an amazing spinner and a monster under sand. I've been using sand offense so much and Excadrill puts in so much work. Just get rid of Tomohawk and you're golden.
I'd really like to see this thread get updated.
Just look at Excadrill sitting in B- down there. That's disgusting, when it's still an amazing spinner and a monster under sand. I've been using sand offense so much and Excadrill puts in so much work. Just get rid of Tomohawk and you're golden.
I'd really like to see this thread get updated.
Exclaimer, there will likely be a brand new thread starting up, as thread ownership is about to change and the such. Furthermore, I guess Naviathan being added to the meta is another thing that makes a new thread relevant... Anyway, stay tuned. I'm hoping the new thread will be up within a week, as it mostly depends on when the new VR council can get together and figure out a few remaining details.
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