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Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139
- Thread starter AM
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Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
I would like to nominate Huntail for D rank. You might say Gorebyss is better at Smashpass BUT.... Huntail has Sucker Punch! See, even at +2 Gorebyss and Huntail are outsped by scarfers, but with Sucker Punch Huntail can fight back against those foes, although it usually doesn't do too much sadly. But I think Sucker Punch is enough of a niche for Huntail to be placed with Gorebyss, or just erase Gorebyss and have Huntail there instead. I don't know... but Huntail for D rank!
Regarding the Nidos, I think Nidoking makes for an interesting mon in OU right now. It has a good amount of power, helps against Clef, has great coverage for the tier in general with ice beam, earth power, and sludge wave, can set rocks, etc. Now that lando-i is gone, I think that's enough to warrant a place on the viability rankings at D. I'll try to get replays a little later.
Nidoqueen on the other hand, might be a solid bulky rocks setter. It beats chomp unless yache chomp becomes popular, but I don't think it's strickly better than Nidoking like it used to be in gen 5. It's bulk just isn't what it used to be and so many things beat it one on one in OU right now. Still a better rocker than Nidoking and there are a lot of situations in which it actually does do a lot better than king, but it's still iffy IMO.
Nidoqueen on the other hand, might be a solid bulky rocks setter. It beats chomp unless yache chomp becomes popular, but I don't think it's strickly better than Nidoking like it used to be in gen 5. It's bulk just isn't what it used to be and so many things beat it one on one in OU right now. Still a better rocker than Nidoking and there are a lot of situations in which it actually does do a lot better than king, but it's still iffy IMO.
Celebi is an entire 3 letter ranks higher than Shaymin. It has a niche in Seed Flare, and either a help or hindrance for your team with pure Grass typing, but it's outclassed in every other regard from the difference in their movepools. Perhaps in practice the gap between the two may not be so severe, but there is a reason you never see Shaymin around.
Haxorus - OK, C+ is WAY too high of a nomination for it, but C- isn't out of the question, even if I don't think it necessarily deserves it. While the Mega DD users are indeed overwhelmingly better for their bulk and typing. However, people overlook Haxorus' ability to hold an item. In practice, while Gyarados can avoid status with Taunt/Substitute, and Char-X is immune to burn (but not paralysis), Haxorus has the benefit of being able to hold Lum Berry which it can afford to do because of just how crazy strong it already is. Anyone who runs or encounters SD+Lum Garchomp knows just how devastating in practice a free turn to boost is when you get to capitalize on the opponents expectations. This can cost your opponent the match. It's also a good Double Dragon partner as, ironically, it's one of the best things to clear would be checks for other Dragons like Char-X. EQ slaughters Heatran unboosted. Poison Jab maims Azumaril and Clefable, etc. It's basically the bouncer pokemon going "move bitch, get out da way!" for your prominent sweeper.
All that considered, I still wouldn't use DD, SD+Lum is the way to go. It's horrible against offense but it isn't so frail it cant survive unboosted neutral hits, so it can at least just hit Outrage coming in fresh against Mega Manectric for instance and kill or cripple something.
Charizard X - I'm having a hard time nominating for S currently. Like AM said, the environment is pretty hectic at the moment, and frankly, sweeping with Char-X isn't as easy as people are making it out to be. If you can't get rocks out of the way by the time you have to send him in, and you're relying on Flare Blitz to take something out, that is a lot of wasted potential right there. It's hard finding the time to Roost off hazard/passive damage, get your boost of choice off, and then start attacking. In practice it requires a lot more support to play optimally, hell, even get onto the field compared to most of the other A+ rankings. S is really stretching it at this points, as while its the upper crust of A+, those S mons are just so much easier to use. For now keep Charizard X in A+
Mega Venusaur - Many things have certainly shifted in Venu's favor lately, and a Grass type with no Fire or Ice weakness is as awesome as ever. But I think A+ at the moment is overselling it. It is simply much easier to wear down than people think. While it doesn't take much hurt from Scald, Burn is the death of this thing, and Paralysis is equally annoying. Synthesis is hampered by Sand (which is predicted and showing some comeback) and has woefully low PP. Giga Drain is nice but not reliable recovery, especially not against resists. You have no Leftovers and you take Sand, rock, and spikes damage. To get the most out of Megasaur you really really want cleric/wish support and hazard removal, as otherwise it isn't too difficult to get him to a level where something faster can just one or two shot him. Offensive sets seem to be doing a bit better, but I don't think Megasaur is on the same level as Lopunny, Scizor, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Talonflame, Char-X or Bisharp... yeah, that's a lot. Mega Venusaur stays A
Stunfisk - You know, I really enjoyed those replays earlier. Cockblocking Volt Switch and being able to punish Flying types between Electric or Ground when they Roost is amusing to me, and its nice to have a rock setter than can force switches with Yawn. It's rare to get a setter that can keep control on your side like that. I support D, I kinda want to try it.
Nidoking/Queen - Does anyone actually have experience with these guys? Theoreywise it makes all the sense for D rank but can people at least post replays like they did for Stunfisk?
Chesnaught - I'm ok with this dropping. The meta is more special oriented than its ever been and Chesnaught isn't cut out for that. Skarmory far more reliably lays Spikes down and Roost and Whirlwind are better than Synthesis and Drain Punch/Leech Seed. It's niche isn't so useful atm, so dropping to B- is justifiable.
Amoongus - I think its still a cut above Chesnaught. That Poison typing for Fairy types and Regenerate, plus Spore, are all huge advantages it has over Chesnaught, and it need not be so passive when it has access to Foul Play, so things can't safely set up on it even if you already put something else to sleep. It's also a Keldeo check not easily worn down from Scald burns thanks to Regenerator, so it has plenty of uses. It just has to be implemented properly. Should stay B, or above Chesnaught.
Mandibuzz - I like what somebody said to not run it as a Defog user. Its rare to have something as bulky as Mandibuzz that can be a monkeywrench for both offense AND stall with a simply set of Taunt, Roost, Foul Play and Toxic/Whirlwind. It can stall strong attackers with Roost and Rocky Helmet/Toxic. It's also pretty good at checking Metagross, Alakazam, Scizor, Starmie and if people are saying Reuniclus should raise than Mandibuzz should NOT be dropping when it straight up counters it. People overlook the usefulness of a Dark type not weak to Fighting, and as bulky as Mandibuzz is with recovery. It should stay in B-, and honestly don't be surprised if it it gets nominated to move up soon based on meta trends.
This has been discussed to death, idc if it goes to D but erasing Gorebyss for Huntail is not an option really. First off, I'd rather have a powerful Scald than a weak Sucker Punch. Next, Gorebyss actually has sweeping potential in Scald/Hydro Pump + Ice Beam in case its not running Substitute. I know it shouldn't be sweeping since its a smash passer, but if the necessity arises (aka you can't switch-in your recipient/Gorebyss is your last mon alive) Gorebyss is very well capable of sweeping unlike Huntail with weak attacks, stab that doesn't annoy shit with burns, in fact you annoy yourself because you might be suffering from iron barbs/rocky helmet shenanigans. Last, but not least what scarfers are you revenging? off the top of my head I just can remember Latios and that's not even that common. Plus Huntail is ugly :[
I've used both Nidos before and they're worthy of D rank at least. Nidoking is strong and had great coverage as well as being a possible rocks/tspikes setter. Nidoqueen isn't as bulky as people make it out to be, but it's still got really neat resistances and its strong enough to not be complete setup fodder, which is always nice in a defensive mon. I know this was a short post but I'm on my phone. I can go more in depth later if need be.
Feraligatr should be B ranked. With Sheer Force and Life Orb, it's more powerful or just as powerful as any of the Pokemon in that list. It has two great boosting moves in Swords Dance and Dragon Dance, and it has the bulk to easily set up either moves to aid in its sweep. It also resists common priorities like Bullet Punch and Ice Shard as well. I don't see any glaring reasons why it should be ranked lower than anything currently in the B list.
I want to reiterate my support for Mandibuzz staying in B-. Honestly I think it will move up to B soon, but that's for later.
If you're not using it as a Defogger (and you really shouldn't be-Buzz is strapped for moveslots as is and a lot of its ability to wall things is hurt if you try to Defog *and* wall what you want), then it's...quite solid. Beats all versions of MegaGross (just using the standard mixed defenses spread, and even if MegaGross is carrying Ice Punch, it's a 3HKO), beats non-WoW-Charizard X (which is becoming the more common variant), beats Bisharp (which is always relevant), while still crushing Life Orb Gengar. For covering those threats as well as it does (countering them) alone, I feel Buzz doesn't deserve to drop. Plus, when people start trying other utility options like Tailwind/U-Turn/Knock Off/Taunt, they'll see how versatile Buzz is.
If you're not using it as a Defogger (and you really shouldn't be-Buzz is strapped for moveslots as is and a lot of its ability to wall things is hurt if you try to Defog *and* wall what you want), then it's...quite solid. Beats all versions of MegaGross (just using the standard mixed defenses spread, and even if MegaGross is carrying Ice Punch, it's a 3HKO), beats non-WoW-Charizard X (which is becoming the more common variant), beats Bisharp (which is always relevant), while still crushing Life Orb Gengar. For covering those threats as well as it does (countering them) alone, I feel Buzz doesn't deserve to drop. Plus, when people start trying other utility options like Tailwind/U-Turn/Knock Off/Taunt, they'll see how versatile Buzz is.
I'll just say that it is mostly outclassed by Crawdaunt on the Swords Dance wallbreaking set, (yea it has ice punch but that's pretty much it). For the DD set I'd rather use something like Gyara which has utility in Intimidate and is good at checking a lot more threats than Gatr does, and base Gyara isn't walled to shit by MVenu either. THe only thing it really isn't 'outclassed' in is Agility in theory, but that set is not that great. It's mostly as low as it is because there are better offensive waters in most niches it fills, although it is good on certain teams. It isn't horrible. But I believe Gatr isn't really suited for a rise.
Lol that's why Gyarados is A and Feraligatr is B-. Frankly I think you're underestimating Gatr's power, it can kill Ferro unlike Gyarados, and isn't slow as shit like Crawdaunt. DD is a great sweeper/cleaner, and I definitely think it should rise, simply based on this.
I agree with this. A great blanket check to a lot of pokemon such as mega altaria and keldeo. Venusaur is basically the only counter to bellyjet azumarill. It's super fat, and it can work pretty well as a good offensive tank that just eats up hits and fires decently powerful attacks off. Good mega on balanced teams that checks a lot of stuff but can be worn down fairly easily. Leaning to A+ for now.
Yeah chesnaught should move down. Cool counter to bisharp but metagame trends aren't very good for it, with stuff like metagross, altaria, tornadus-t everywhere. As a spikes setter, I would almost always go with ferrothorn or skarmory thanks to arguably better defensive typings as well as checking a lot more stuff. Move to B-.
Scolipede is a pretty cool tspikes + spikes stacker for offensive teams. After it uses up its sash it can also weaken a fat wall like skarmory with endeavor. Iron defense pass also isn't that bad as it helps frail sweepers take priority on a bit better while also boosting speed making it a lot harder to revenge kill. (Ask whitequeen :P) Offensive sets are also good because megahorn is very powerful as well as having coverage options such as aqua tail, earthquake, and rock slide. When it runs into something that it can't deal with like a skarmory it can baton pass into a partner that can handle it.
Agree with this too. Super bulky with reliable recovery. Very consistent win condition that can just effortlessly steamroll a lot of teams. Faces competition from clefable as a magic guard CM poke. Both have their pros and cons but I feel like the gap between the two should be a bit smaller. In a lot of high level matches you're just seeing a lot of mega latias / clefable / reuniclus CM teams that are very solid. Move to B+ please.
I'm not a big fan of mandibuzz but tbh it should stay. Fairly bulky and can offer all kinds of utility such as defog, toxic, taunt, and a good switchin to pokemon such as gengar. With rocks off the field the amount of things it can check goes up by a lot and having the option to go either physically defensive or specially defensive is also nice. Rise of fairies isn't great for mandibuzz but it really doesn't belong with stuff in C+ like magneton. Yeah keep mandibuzz in B-.
Nah I think kabutops should stay in B+. Still a very threatening physical rain sweeper that doesn't use up the mega slot. Under rain and with an SD up, this thing is just so threatening and it just OHKOs so much stuff. Besides mega swampert, this is almost always my go to physical rain sweeper. Another benefit about it is that it can check talonflame under rain which can be kind of annoying. Also has low kick to bop fat steels with.
Calcs:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 359-422 (100 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 292-344 (87.4 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp in Rain: 413-487 (98.3 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 294-347 (97 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 292-344 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Gatr's appeal imo comes from its ability to beat Ferrothorn with Superpower, which is a mon Gyara often struggles with. You can pair it with other Water types that appreciate Ferrothorn being gone, meaning Gatr is a better partner to stuff like Azu and Manaphy than Gyarados is. It also pairs better with Altaria for this reason.
Feraligatr from B- to B: Agree with this.When was Sheer Force bad? As others have said, the main thing that separates Gatra from Gyarados is its ability to beat Ferrothorn which is sometimes the only thing that can prevent a Gyarados sweep but Gatr will go through it. Gatr won't be taking up a mega slot which is also a factor. Other than that Gyarados pretty much does everything better than Gatr. Feraligatr for B.
I'm new and I'm rather inexperienced in competitive battling but from my experience in Showdown, I don't see why Dragonite is in B+. I understand with multiscale, natural bulky, and extremespeed, it has its niche. However, with better dragon dancers like mega charizard x, mega altaria, and mega gyarados, isn't it outclassed as a DD'er overall?
Dragonite is a great win con and has great coverage. With many sets and the threat of Weakness Policy preventing people from using Super Effective moves, it's pretty good. I'm not sure about B+ for it and it could go down to B because of how ridiculously common Rocks are as well as powerful Ice types but I'd reserve my judgement until the dust settles from the Lando ban.
Dragonite also has a niche in that with the cbbnite set it can handle zard y pretty well and keldeo if it doesn't have icy wind. Extreme speed is also a pretty big niche because of being able to outprioritize +1 priority moves such as talonflame's brave bird and thundurus' twave which can otherwise easily hinder a sweep. It also has lots of coverage moves to choose from, as well as multiscale making setting up easier. Choice band sets also have lots of power and it can act as an early game wallbreaker with its powerful outrage or a lategame cleaner with espeed.
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It's easier than ever to keep hazards off the field, but yes rocks are a bit of a problem. Dragonites biggest set would be choice band+E-speed which puts in WORK against offense, and with good coverage dents lots of fat mons. D-dance still isn't bad considering he's guaranteed to get at least one up and doesn't take up a mega slot like malt or zard x. Its still very threatening since he can't be revenged due to E-speed having +2 priority. It's fine in B+ as it's better than the likes of mega bee and sceptile lol.
Hope you like smog in fren :]
DNite's best set imo is the Band set which can act as a powerful wallbreaker and revenge kill threats or clean up with Extreme Speed. Even without bulk investment, it is still very bulky and can definitely pull it's weight. As for the DD set, it has a one-time Status immunity thanks to Lum Berry and pairs well alongside another Dragon as both are countered by the same stuff. Bulky DNite loses a lot of niche in this Lando-less meta as it doesn't like switching into Keldeo (Scald), Electrics (HP Ice) and Zard-Y (Dragon Pulse). It still hard counters Volcarona for whatever it's worth.
WP sets are rarely seen or even pulled off successfully nowadays with so many threats running around.
EDIT: So many ninjas
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'd like to get better in the competitive aspect of the game so I'm very excited to be a part of smogon :D I hope I don't say too many ignorant things to a point where it starts to annoy people.
As for dragonite, Id like to make it clear that I did not say its bad but rather outclassed...particularly its DD set. I understand it has its strengths: multiscale to be one of the easiest pokemon to setup a DD/setup move, extreme speed and natural bulk on a mon that doesn't need to mega evolve. However, with other very dominant DD'ers that are arguably better in a fairy-dominant metagame, I'd like to know if it's truly B+ worthy. By the way, I'm referring to the DD set with lum berry and DD/outrage or dragon claw/ extreme speed/ fire punch or earthquake.
Sorry again for the trouble.
As for dragonite, Id like to make it clear that I did not say its bad but rather outclassed...particularly its DD set. I understand it has its strengths: multiscale to be one of the easiest pokemon to setup a DD/setup move, extreme speed and natural bulk on a mon that doesn't need to mega evolve. However, with other very dominant DD'ers that are arguably better in a fairy-dominant metagame, I'd like to know if it's truly B+ worthy. By the way, I'm referring to the DD set with lum berry and DD/outrage or dragon claw/ extreme speed/ fire punch or earthquake.
Sorry again for the trouble.
I actually believe dragonite deserves to be higher but I'm not going to "hard" state it, more like I can't, without an actual argument. I'll do that once the meta settles without Lando-I. Either way, I believe DD dragonite's niche has enough strengths for it to not be outclassed by the other DD'ers. I can't say it's as good as the other DD'ers but I'd sy outclassed is an extremely harsh word to describe DDnite. Furthermore, I believe dragnet's true strengths lie in its CB set, which is incredible. As somebody already mentioned, its immediate strengths coupled with dragonite's natural pros (multiscale, bulk, extremespeed, coverage) are simply astounding (too much for B+ imho but that's another story that most people may be against). All in all, dragnet's inability to effectively deal with the fairies and SR's cheap damage hurt it but I don't believe it should be below B+.
I don't think it's fair to say Feraligatr is outclassed by either of them, Gatr has a much more passable bulk and speed tier than Crawdaunt and doesn't have some of the painful weaknesses that comes with its typing. And unlike Crawdaunt, it might actually get the chance to set up a DD or SD against offense. Regular Gyarados will get more setup opportunities most of the time but it lacks a LOT of the coverage and outright power Gatr has against quite a few defensive mons Gyara really struggles with. With a simple set of DD, Waterfall, and any 2 of Crunch / Ice Punch / Superpower, Gatr can break through stuff like Mega Altaria, Unaware Clef, Ferrothorn, Slowbro, etc pretty easily at +1. I'd be in favor of a rise to B, Gatr just seems better than everything else in B- right now.
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I don't agree with dragonite deserving a higher rank. It's powerful but as you mentioned, along with everyone else, it has its glaring problems: fairies and stealth rock primarily. I think it's fine where it is.
Charizard X: A+ > S - I'm not too bothered what happens to it, but this thing is probably worthy of S.
Mega Venusaur: A > A+ - Agree. It's very bulky and a little underrated in the current meta. Certainly worthy of A+, simply due to how much it walls and how easily it wears stuff down.
Amoonguss: B > B- - Disagree. Regen + Spore make this a great bulky pivot, and while stall isn't as prominent as it used to be, It's still worthy of it's rank.
Chesnaught: B > B- - Kinda opinionless, all I know is it's annoying.
Quagsire: B > B- - Disagree. It's worthy of a place in B due to how useful Unaware is, and is still a good check to stuff like Bisharp, who regularly has no good answer on defensive teams.
Scolipede: B > B+ - Disagree. I don't like the spikes set, as it can't learn SR and quickpass is just rather easy to get around.
Reuniclus: B> B+ - Don't care.
Mandibuzz: B- > C+ - Disagree. While being SR weak means it isn't a fab defogger, it has good utility and is an extremely underated mon. It can beat alot of setup sweepers with natural bulk + foul play, has reliable recovery, U-Turn allowing for momentum keeping, and other usable support moves in defog, taunt and whirlwind. You can use non defog Mandi extremely well, the only mandatory move is roost. It fills these roles reasonable well, and is so much better than a C+. People who want to drop it seem extremely 'harard weak defogger, drop it' rather than looking at how well it checks preominent mons.
Kabutops: B+ > B - Agree. It's not on the level of Kingdra and MPert, and fits alot better into B than B+.
Excadrill: A > A+
Mega Venusaur: A > A+ - Agree. It's very bulky and a little underrated in the current meta. Certainly worthy of A+, simply due to how much it walls and how easily it wears stuff down.
Amoonguss: B > B- - Disagree. Regen + Spore make this a great bulky pivot, and while stall isn't as prominent as it used to be, It's still worthy of it's rank.
Chesnaught: B > B- - Kinda opinionless, all I know is it's annoying.
Quagsire: B > B- - Disagree. It's worthy of a place in B due to how useful Unaware is, and is still a good check to stuff like Bisharp, who regularly has no good answer on defensive teams.
Scolipede: B > B+ - Disagree. I don't like the spikes set, as it can't learn SR and quickpass is just rather easy to get around.
Reuniclus: B> B+ - Don't care.
Mandibuzz: B- > C+ - Disagree. While being SR weak means it isn't a fab defogger, it has good utility and is an extremely underated mon. It can beat alot of setup sweepers with natural bulk + foul play, has reliable recovery, U-Turn allowing for momentum keeping, and other usable support moves in defog, taunt and whirlwind. You can use non defog Mandi extremely well, the only mandatory move is roost. It fills these roles reasonable well, and is so much better than a C+. People who want to drop it seem extremely 'harard weak defogger, drop it' rather than looking at how well it checks preominent mons.
Kabutops: B+ > B - Agree. It's not on the level of Kingdra and MPert, and fits alot better into B than B+.
Excadrill: A > A+
I just want to put out my opinions on the current noms.
Charizard X: A+ > S - Disagree. It suffers too much from Stealth Rock and offensive pressure in order to rise to S rank imo. In practice I have never had the amount of trouble that Mega Altaria can give after a Dragon Dance. I am aware it can run Will-o-Wisp to bait out potential counters and cripples them, but once again it is not a done deal in the actual match.
MegaSaur A > A+ - Disagree. It serves as a blanket check to a lot of the tier, yet for all its bulk it gets worn down relatively easily. Sand cripples its recovery and any Draco Meteor user will put a massive dent into it, which will force it to use one of its eight Synthesis in turn. It is a great A rank mon but it does not fit into the Megagross plagued meta right now.
Amoonguss: B > B- - Disagree. Extremely potent utility in Spore and Clear Smog; good bulk and sustainability with Regen. Not much else to say.
Chesnaught: B > B- - Agree. This poke is not liked with the current meta. It is certainly less useful than Amoonguss and should rest at one sub tier below it imo.
Nidoking: Unranked > D - Agree. Great coverage with potential to set up rocks. With the primary Pokemon that outclassed it finally banned, I believe Nidoking can serve as a good check to Clefable. It can also beat MAlt before a DD and Megagross after a Hammer Arm. Good mon. Worthy of a rank.
Nidoqueen: Unranked > D - Disagree. Nidoqueen's bulk is exaggerated. It has no good recovery and though it is useful for all the hazards it gets I would rather use Dragalge for TSpikes and basically anything else for Spikes/Rocks. Nidoqueen is too outclassed by the other ranked mons for it to receive a rank.
Reuniclus: B > B+ - Not enough experience with or against it. No opinion.
Quagsire: B > B- - Disagree. Quag is a great stop to the numerous set up sweepers. Even though its natural bulk is not the impressive it can still give a player a last ditch effort against a set up sweeper. Pokemon with rather sub-par stats that require boosts to do much are also totally walled by Quag. Useful for stall despite its decline. Balance can use it to morderate effectiveness aswell, thus it should remain B imo.
Kabutops B+ > B - No opinion.
Mandibuzz: B- > C+ - Mandi has way too much utility to overlook. It completely outclasses everything in C+. Just read some of the other posts about it; I would sound like a broken record if I gave my reasoning to keep it in B-.
Charizard X: A+ > S - Disagree. It suffers too much from Stealth Rock and offensive pressure in order to rise to S rank imo. In practice I have never had the amount of trouble that Mega Altaria can give after a Dragon Dance. I am aware it can run Will-o-Wisp to bait out potential counters and cripples them, but once again it is not a done deal in the actual match.
MegaSaur A > A+ - Disagree. It serves as a blanket check to a lot of the tier, yet for all its bulk it gets worn down relatively easily. Sand cripples its recovery and any Draco Meteor user will put a massive dent into it, which will force it to use one of its eight Synthesis in turn. It is a great A rank mon but it does not fit into the Megagross plagued meta right now.
Amoonguss: B > B- - Disagree. Extremely potent utility in Spore and Clear Smog; good bulk and sustainability with Regen. Not much else to say.
Chesnaught: B > B- - Agree. This poke is not liked with the current meta. It is certainly less useful than Amoonguss and should rest at one sub tier below it imo.
Nidoking: Unranked > D - Agree. Great coverage with potential to set up rocks. With the primary Pokemon that outclassed it finally banned, I believe Nidoking can serve as a good check to Clefable. It can also beat MAlt before a DD and Megagross after a Hammer Arm. Good mon. Worthy of a rank.
Nidoqueen: Unranked > D - Disagree. Nidoqueen's bulk is exaggerated. It has no good recovery and though it is useful for all the hazards it gets I would rather use Dragalge for TSpikes and basically anything else for Spikes/Rocks. Nidoqueen is too outclassed by the other ranked mons for it to receive a rank.
Reuniclus: B > B+ - Not enough experience with or against it. No opinion.
Quagsire: B > B- - Disagree. Quag is a great stop to the numerous set up sweepers. Even though its natural bulk is not the impressive it can still give a player a last ditch effort against a set up sweeper. Pokemon with rather sub-par stats that require boosts to do much are also totally walled by Quag. Useful for stall despite its decline. Balance can use it to morderate effectiveness aswell, thus it should remain B imo.
Kabutops B+ > B - No opinion.
Mandibuzz: B- > C+ - Mandi has way too much utility to overlook. It completely outclasses everything in C+. Just read some of the other posts about it; I would sound like a broken record if I gave my reasoning to keep it in B-.
Charizard-X to S disagree
Checks to char have become a lot more common (scarf tran, hippo, bro + mega bro, diancie and mega alt. I'd like to compare char x to keldeo, a former s rank mon. Keldeo has a lot of checks, he can get past them with lure sets (icy wind, hp bug, hp electric, hp ghost, etc) but he could never be safe from his checks cuz he couldn't prepare for everyone. Which has been the same for char, lure sets like wisp, iron tail and eq. Whichever you choose it nullifies you against other checks. So char is in the same boat keldeo, plenty of checks but probably if they implemented sub ranks they'd easily be s- with torn and manaphy but their flaws are holding them (mostly char) back. LETS NOT FORGET about opportunity cost and stealth rocks as well.
Checks to char have become a lot more common (scarf tran, hippo, bro + mega bro, diancie and mega alt. I'd like to compare char x to keldeo, a former s rank mon. Keldeo has a lot of checks, he can get past them with lure sets (icy wind, hp bug, hp electric, hp ghost, etc) but he could never be safe from his checks cuz he couldn't prepare for everyone. Which has been the same for char, lure sets like wisp, iron tail and eq. Whichever you choose it nullifies you against other checks. So char is in the same boat keldeo, plenty of checks but probably if they implemented sub ranks they'd easily be s- with torn and manaphy but their flaws are holding them (mostly char) back. LETS NOT FORGET about opportunity cost and stealth rocks as well.
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