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np: ORAS UU Stage 3.1 - Sex on Fire [Victini Remains BL]
- Thread starter Sam
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what does stealing a team have to do with observing the meta lol? least amount of games you have to play is like 50, i'd say anyone that has done that deserves to be heard and respected. dont matter if u built the team or not imo
also u think that bringing up a banned strat from a meta that had hella broken shit in it is a valid argument?
Is that a bad thing? By that logic Aim must be shit since he spams lots of ladder games in lives with borrowed teams.
Anybody can borrow a team but at the end of the day the plays are still entirely theirs, it won't guarantee an instant win. Moreover, whether they use an original team or not the point of a suspect test is that people are able to test out their opinions in actual practice. Course there is more to a suspect test than simply playing, this is where the forums (or mIRC for some people) come in and people debate or clarify ideas.
The irony about Victini test really is that it wasn't used quite enough that I'd say both sides are in themselves questionable with regard to information. Though that isn't to say it wasn't accounted for in team building but in practice... there just wasn't enough Victini to go by -- and absence doesn't correlate to either being broken or non-broken. So I don't think anyone could really be faulted for their choice here IMO, its kinda moot when neither side gave the other a proper opportunity by lack of Victini. I mean compared to say some OU suspect tests I don't actually see as much replays on this thread, to convince or refute (though I did see more pro-ban replays still it is in the handful).
So in this case it just boiled down to whether the posts here were enough of a convincing argument, and well we have the results.
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Pidge test will for sure be an interesting one, that bird can make balance look so bad it's not even funny. Im kind of surprised we did not just go head and pair it with gatr because there has been a lot of talk about gatr being even worse than pidgeot and there doesn't seem a reason not to just throw gatr in there but I'm still happy we are getting testing at least one of them so I can't complain. None the less, bring your penguin's fellas, you're gunna need em.
Confusion really is at the core of what's wrong with Pidgeot, because otherwise the only thing that makes it special among UU's fast, hard hitters is a reliable STAB flying move.
I actually think Gatr is more of an issue than podge but I'm still happy to see a suspect.
I actually think Gatr is more of an issue than podge but I'm still happy to see a suspect.
I don't really think uu is banced yet, although I do think its the most balanced tier thus far, which is why its so enjoyable
Making a pretty bold claim saying that Pidgeot "ohko's almost every pokemon in Underused" when nothing in the S-through-A- ranks takes 100% from Hurricane/Heat Wave unless they're hit super effectively by them. (and even then Mega Aggron can eat at least 1 Heat Wave).
Not that Pidgeot is an easy Pokemon to switch into (depending on your luck with confusions it may even be "impossible" to switch into), but let's not cry wolf here.
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Rhyperior: 105-124 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Isn't this a good check
Mpidge is crazy, and I actually only say that because of the damn confuse hax.
Mpidge certainly breaks through many teams, but not that I would say OHKOs nearly the entire meta. People are right in saying you can't really switch into it. Maybe something like M-blast can beat it 1v1, but toise takes about 50% from Hurricane, so no switch. And then there's hax.
Also i'm in denial about Gatr having to be suspected
Isn't this a good check
Mpidge is crazy, and I actually only say that because of the damn confuse hax.
Mpidge certainly breaks through many teams, but not that I would say OHKOs nearly the entire meta. People are right in saying you can't really switch into it. Maybe something like M-blast can beat it 1v1, but toise takes about 50% from Hurricane, so no switch. And then there's hax.
Also i'm in denial about Gatr having to be suspected
At least on paper, Rhyperior appears to be a very nice Mega Pidgeot check. I'm not experienced with it and haven't seen much of it on the ladder, but that obscurity is part of what makes it good in this context. If bulky rock-types like Rhyperior were more common in UU then Mega Pidgeot would respond by running HP Grass, but barring a substantial rise in Rhyperior's usage no one is going to do that. I'd really like to hear from people who have used Rhyperior as a Pidgeot check. What spread do you use, and what teammates do you use to help deal with the bulky waters that Rhyperior is going to lure?
As to the whole OHKO thing, while Pidgeot certainly doesn't OHKO the entire meta it does 2HKO a huge portion of it with Hurricane alone. People rightly have talked quite a bit about confusion, but I think it's equally important to emphasize the raw power of Hurricane. Even without any confusion at all, this thing still hits like a truck and nabs a huge number of relevant 2HKO's. This is what creates a powerful asymmetry; if the hax go against Pidgeot and he gets no relevant confusion then he still gets to deliver a viciously hard-hitting STAB move, but if hax go in his favor and the opponent hurts themselves in confusion they get nothing. The 1v1 scenario against Blastoise is actually a very good illustration of this:
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 266-314 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 165-195 (45.7 - 54%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
It's slightly in favor of Pidgeot after accounting for the chance of confusion hax, but not by too much. Both players are taking a risk in this engagement. However, the Mega Pidgeot player is at an advantage here because he's better hedged. Even with the worst-case, Pidgeot is guaranteed at least one hit before getting OHKO'd by a high roll, but equally-likely is that Blastoise will suffer confusion and give Pidgeot the free turn it needs to eliminate Blastoise for free. Moreover, as a fast pokemon with access to reliable recovery Pidgeot is also in a better position to remain relevant after trading blows with a powerhouse like Blastoise in the average case scenario.
I'm a big fan of Mega Pidgeot; it's definitely my favorite mega in UU right now. While I do think it has some notable flaws, there's no question in my mind that it deserve the upcoming suspect.
As to the whole OHKO thing, while Pidgeot certainly doesn't OHKO the entire meta it does 2HKO a huge portion of it with Hurricane alone. People rightly have talked quite a bit about confusion, but I think it's equally important to emphasize the raw power of Hurricane. Even without any confusion at all, this thing still hits like a truck and nabs a huge number of relevant 2HKO's. This is what creates a powerful asymmetry; if the hax go against Pidgeot and he gets no relevant confusion then he still gets to deliver a viciously hard-hitting STAB move, but if hax go in his favor and the opponent hurts themselves in confusion they get nothing. The 1v1 scenario against Blastoise is actually a very good illustration of this:
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Pidgeot: 266-314 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Blastoise: 165-195 (45.7 - 54%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
It's slightly in favor of Pidgeot after accounting for the chance of confusion hax, but not by too much. Both players are taking a risk in this engagement. However, the Mega Pidgeot player is at an advantage here because he's better hedged. Even with the worst-case, Pidgeot is guaranteed at least one hit before getting OHKO'd by a high roll, but equally-likely is that Blastoise will suffer confusion and give Pidgeot the free turn it needs to eliminate Blastoise for free. Moreover, as a fast pokemon with access to reliable recovery Pidgeot is also in a better position to remain relevant after trading blows with a powerhouse like Blastoise in the average case scenario.
I'm a big fan of Mega Pidgeot; it's definitely my favorite mega in UU right now. While I do think it has some notable flaws, there's no question in my mind that it deserve the upcoming suspect.
In reply to the Rhyperior part, I have recently built a team that had Rhyperior in it. I was told to change it to Nidoqueen, which I did, but I changed back due to M-Pidge problems. But that's irrelevant.
Rhyperior works really good as Pidge check, actually. I choose the max HP and 244 SpD version, since his SpD is weak. As of now, I haven't seen a single Pidgeot run any kind of HP, but if Rhyperior was used more, it would probably be.
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 231-273 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So that's that.
I've been running Roserade along with Rhyperior to beat bulky waters. I used to have a defensive SpD spiker version, but its now an offensive spiker so it's less passive. Roserade draws out M-Pidge quite easily, actually. I've seen many bulky waters paired with M-Pidge.
Now that M-pidge is everywhere, I run Spikes/Sleep Powder/Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain. Sleep Powder (if it hits) will get the burd good, while you can switch out to Rhyp or something else.
I'm pretty sure Shaymin works well with Rhyperior as well, since Seed Flare beats walls easier, as well as nailing other Pidge teammates, and having better all-around bulk than Roserade. But I choose Roserade due to Sleep Powder, which helps immensely.
You can also try out technician hp fire to bop forretress on the switch in when they try to be cheeky with overcoat.
Speaking of stuff to deal with M-Pidgeot, the only good thing about something so strong on the tier is that most of the time it forces you to think outside of the box a lot, looking at the teambuilder for options through many tiers. Ok, straight to the point:
Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
Cooler than cool. Niche as heck but I was looking for a Mega Pidgeot switch-in hence why I choosed this over mamo. The EV spread could be optimized but it serves as an all around special wall that can handle nidos beautifully, hydreigon and a good couple of special attackers which can otherwise be pretty threatening.
The defensive investment let it handle salamence really well also (if that salamence is life orb, thing are gonna get ugly) and stomach neutral physical types rather well. Protect for scouting purposes and you could surprise your standard mienshao, and the 4th movepool... it is a filler but toxic or thunder wave are the best fillers tbh. It demands a spinner and wish support, thankfully stuff like tentacruel and florges blend well with The Iceberg Pokemon. Isnt a sitting duck either with respectable 100 base spA.
Also, I dont like P2. sorry
Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
Cooler than cool. Niche as heck but I was looking for a Mega Pidgeot switch-in hence why I choosed this over mamo. The EV spread could be optimized but it serves as an all around special wall that can handle nidos beautifully, hydreigon and a good couple of special attackers which can otherwise be pretty threatening.
The defensive investment let it handle salamence really well also (if that salamence is life orb, thing are gonna get ugly) and stomach neutral physical types rather well. Protect for scouting purposes and you could surprise your standard mienshao, and the 4th movepool... it is a filler but toxic or thunder wave are the best fillers tbh. It demands a spinner and wish support, thankfully stuff like tentacruel and florges blend well with The Iceberg Pokemon. Isnt a sitting duck either with respectable 100 base spA.
Also, I dont like P2. sorry
Hit it up with the innovational No-Guard Zap Cannon or Blizzard imo (courtesy of Euphonos)Speaking of stuff to deal with M-Pidgeot, the only good thing about something so strong on the tier is that most of the time it forces you to think outside of the box a lot, looking at the teambuilder for options through many tiers. Ok, straight to the point:
Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
Cooler than cool. Niche as heck but I was looking for a Mega Pidgeot switch-in hence why I choosed this over mamo. The EV spread could be optimized but it serves as an all around special wall that can handle nidos beautifully, hydreigon and a good couple of special attackers which can otherwise be pretty threatening.
The defensive investment let it handle salamence really well also (if that salamence is life orb, thing are gonna get ugly) and stomach neutral physical types rather well. Protect for scouting purposes and you could surprise your standard mienshao, and the 4th movepool... it is a filler but toxic or thunder wave are the best fillers tbh. It demands a spinner and wish support, thankfully stuff like tentacruel and florges blend well with The Iceberg Pokemon. Isnt a sitting duck either with respectable 100 base spA.
Also, I dont like P2. sorry
Im not sure why you would look to something like Regice when there are several solid options to plug in to face Pidgeot in both UU and RU even. That set reminds me of how when Kingdra and Noivern were in RU people turned to AV Lapras to try to deal with it and Lapras is literally horrible. The difference here however is that stuff like Empoleon, Porygon, Aerodactyl, Rhyperior, etc all handle Pidgeot fairly well and we don't have to resort to stuff so hyperspecific.
no I meant #only90gxeCLUB
Do we have an ETA on the test?
EDIT: Thank ye.
EDIT: Thank ye.
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Gravity is better in that regard, though :(
Mostly because Regice doesn't get No Guard.... which means I guess you're relying on Skill Swapping an opposing Doublade?
It's for beating Pidgeot, and no guard affects the entire field
Gah, of course, I missed that it was for c-teaming Pidgeot. Sorry.
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