The big issue I see with it is that once you reveal that you're scarfed, your opponent will know that every time you use a special move you've given the opponent a free turn since an uninvested special attack off of Tyranitar doesn't do a lot of damage to targets who aren't weak to it. You could net a surprise kill, but after that its effectiveness would be cut tremendously.
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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You could just run Fire Punch over Fire Blast. Hits all relevant targets harder.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
It has always worked for me. Ice beam is the more relevant move, though. It's easy to catch lando-t off guard, and it gives you a reliable move to revenge the occasional dragonite (though lando-t is the obvious target)
Why do people apparently run PuP metagross, when Hone Claws makes sure MMash and ZHB always hit?
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Pup isn't as weak as you would think, especially with the tough claws boost. Hone claws offers an accuracy boost, sure, but pup gives you the attack boost and effectively half of a zen headbutt. Keep in mind that two power up punches is significantly stronger than a hammer arm (in the event that they switch in, say, a heatran on it)
You could use hp fighting instead of focus blast to help the accuracy, but you're losing 50bp. Same concept applies here
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Building a team around, belly drum charizard x and I would like include an offensive grass type to deal with bulky waters like quagmire and grounds such as hippowdon. Narrowed my choice down to shaymin land and serperoir. Normally I'd hands down go for the grass snake, but it lacks the immediate power and coverage of the hedgehog and the aim of the team is belly sweep not serperoir sweep stakes. Having said that, serperoir has it'd advantages, being an alternate sweeper to x and largely applying significantly more pressure than shaymin, but still the hedgehogs lack of set makes him better for imefiately pressuring, would be x counters.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Shaymin is largely outclassed by celebi. Even better: you can run a sub baton pass set on celebi to make belly drumming much easier
True but the issue and why I decided against Celebi is the psychic typing. It felt pretty limiting when it came to hazard control because ideally I want to run starmie maybe latios, but naturally psychic is a poor typing to have shared weaknesses. Shaymin can't sub pass, but it pulls off an all out attacker better.
Shaymin has niches over Celebi when used offensively, in that Seed Flare's power and potential drops help it wall break, it has room to run Earth Power compared to Celebi, Air Slash for opposing Grass type, and Mono Grass makes it less weak to Knock Off and Pursuit Trapping. If being considered for an offensive partner, there is legitimate reason to consider Shaymin over Celebi. Celebi's Psychic type, as malomyotismon noted, also does give it some trouble synergyzing with most hazard removers, especially since Excadrill would make the core even more weak to bulky waters and grounds alongside Zard-X, who is DEFINITELY going to need hazard control to run a Belly Zard set.
One thing about Shaymin is that it can beat Scarftar, as opposed to Celebi having to Baton Pass out
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 283-338 (82.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That said, SubPass Celebi might make a better partner to give Zard a buff after the Drum damage.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Why wouldn't you calc with intimidate? lol Landorus-t has intimidate.
Not denying the minute advantages that shaymin has over celebi. My point was that those advantages don't do anything to help zard.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
"Lure" (which was mentioned) and "revenge killer" are not synergistic. If a tyranitar switches into a landorus, the landorus user is going to switch out given that your tyranitar obviously has a good matchup (this is especially true if they know you are scartar). The point is to nail landorus on the switch.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Yep, context is important. As a landorus lure, ice beam is better imo. Ice punch outdamages standard offesnive garchomp, but with the rise of tank chomp, ice beam is arguably better than ice punch in general as well, but I digress.
Fire blast/fire punch is an easy fire blast I think. Fire blast will outdamage in almost all instances, and you avoid damage.
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 296-352 (77.4 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 176-208 (46 - 54.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 248-292 (77.7 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 300-356 (94 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 352-416 (98.5 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 316-376 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 284-336 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 248-296 (59 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dont know exact evs, but ice beam will outdamage and prevent recoil)
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 176-208 (46 - 54.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 248-292 (77.7 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 300-356 (94 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 352-416 (98.5 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 316-376 (88.5 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 284-336 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 248-296 (59 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dont know exact evs, but ice beam will outdamage and prevent recoil)
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tbh shaymin pretty much does steam roll through much of charizards countrs/checks and deals with thing's like scarft tar, celebi and charizard have no hope of dealing with.
you could also just use serperior cuz it literally sets up on 75% of zard x's checks.
I had mentioned earlier it was a choice between shaymin or serperior, but wether the better choice was something that is immediately threatening to charizard a checks, like shaymin or another sweeper that uses most as setup bait for its own sweep, like serperior.
Sort of team dependent but Dragon Dance variants + coverage move such as EQ or Fire Blast are normally going to give you a great matchup against most of the tier. But still it's a team dependent thing.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
I'd say Physical sets are the best. You can run stuff like DD Roost 2 Atks, DD Heal Bell, DD Cotton Guard, DD Fire Blast and Facade and they are all pretty big threats and very hard to prepare for. Support sets are great for semi-stall teams as Altaria checks many threats such as Keldeo, Charizard X, Charizard Y, Mega Gyarados, Breloom and Thundurus and they can run moves to support its teammates like Heal Bell, Tailwind, Perish Song and Roar. Special sets are also great but less threatening than DD sets in general. It is pretty team depending but the versatility of DD makes it the best option for most teams.
Stuff that breaks bulky waters are good teammates considering feraligatr has a hard time with them.
Not sure if it's in here, but here's the terminology database: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokemon-terminology-database.3531296/
If nothing else, I know the term "stale" is in there.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Thanks for your help but it is not exactly what I was looking for. The thread was from +/- 2010 but I really don't know what it is was called. Only thing I know is that they discussed when a pokemon / move is considered healthy or unhealthy.
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