PU PUPL: Week 1

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In all honesty as an XY PU player, garb wasn't to me that big of a deal, but neither is scyther or any other threat. (then again i didn't play all that much)
I'd be in support of any decision that promotes the idea of adding pokemon, if we take away any more, i think it's just stupid and limiting.
 
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MZ

And now for something completely different
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I was always against garb. Like, it's not really XY PU without it and it wasn't unhealthy to the degree that it should be banned by a simple TL vote. Now Scyther, Throh and Sneasel are all overcentralizing and/or broken (pretty much, the speculation isnt that farfetch'd) and it basically comes down to whether you want to ban more or just unban garb.

Edit: and after testing, it's honestly just a totally different meta without garb, not XY pu
 

Anty

let's drop
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There is no reason to ban more, as either way unless we make it the exact same as the current PU meta something is going overcentralising and broken.

Garbo should be the only one we should consider banning as it has a much more negative impact in the meta, and we dont want every game to just be garbo hazard spam + a bunch of powerful shit. Obviously the extent of how negative it is is what decides whether it deserves a ban.
 
Yeah the only reason we banned Garbodor from this is because it would make every game the same and just be really stale, not because it was broken. There are like 10 broken things in XY PU (garbodor, scyther, sneasel, tauros, throh, etc etc), and banning more of them just makes more things more broken.
 

termi

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"Games become more stale" is not an argument that warrants the Garbodor quickban. Matter of the fact is that XY PU is a centralized metagame no matter how you turn it, and at least Garbodor can keep most broken things at bay to a degree. I would rather have a metagame that is centralized around a single broken threat than one that is centered around multiple broken threats. Banning Garbodor simply influences the XY PU metagame too much, making it even less healthy and destabilizing it, which we cannot afford because it's a past metagame. We can't reinvent the metagame to take Garbodor's ban into account when the meta is only played for PUPL, if we remove the one big thing to keep many broken threats in check, regardless of how broken is on its own (and I would argue there arethings more broken in XY PU than Garbodor), we make the metagame awful. I don't care that Garbodor makes the metagame stale, staleness has never been a legitimate reason to ban anything, and if it isn't a legitimate reason for banning something in a current metagame, then it is even less reason for banning it in a past metagame.

Let's not forget that banning things in past metagames was unthinkable until not too long ago. While I think it's a step in the right direction that this has changed for tournament play, this does not mean that we should go ahead and just ban something at random in a past metagame simply because we can. XY Pu should, at this point, be considered solely as playable from a competitive point of view, and from this point of view a ban on Garbodor is illegitimate and simply not necessary.
 
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Anty

let's drop
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It also should be noted that a big reason Garbo didn't get banned in xy was because we thought it was gonna move up by usage till PS crashed. Still I agree that we shouldn't change it (despite that it was me who suggested the ban) as we are used to this broken meta more than we are with scyther/etc broken meta, an old teams we have are for the Garbo meta.
 
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