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Resource LC Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Corporal Levi
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There really isn't much that needs to prepare for Tirtouga. Yeah its a mon who uses Shell Smash, but most teams generate enough offensive pressure to deny Tirtouga set up opportunities, which essentially makes it dead weight. Yeah its a Fletchling check, but most Fletchling users carry U-turn anyway, and you simply U-turn into your Fighting mon and win. I absolutely love Tirtouga, but it simply isn't as reliable at setting up, especially because of its Speed and its vulnerabillity to priority. You can argue that Omanyte suffers the same, but it doesn't, Omanyte is actually really strong with awesome coverage. Tirtouga fails to OHKO Bulky Mienfoo at +2, Timburr at +2, is extremely weak to any Grass-type, has to rely on Stone Edge to beat Chinchou or uses Earthquake which gives it poor coverage, and in general isn't as good of a wallbreaker as other Shell Smashers are. I really don't think that it should be bumped up "simply because no one prepares for it." It doesn't need preparing for, well built teams generally have built in checks and counters to it already, just form being a team.
For the reason Amaura mentioned above, I rarely use Shell Smash Tirtouga anymore as, to simply put, outclassed by Omanyte. I find myself running defensive Tirtouga more often than not as, it provides Knock Off support, excellent Fletch check, Scald burns hurt Fighting types -Barring Timburr of course-, and priority to finish things off. SS Tirtouga's checks are very common, and used without preparing specifically for Tirtouga, as Fighting is just a common type. No one needs to prepare for Tirtouga, so why would they? I love using Tirtouga, and often use it on Water spam teams, but sadly Tirtouga is B+ Material at the moment.
wtf? If hazards aren't up, Tirtouga gets guaranteed set up bar taunt mons.
+2 212+ Atk Tirtouga Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 20-24 (95.2 - 114.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
ezpz
+2 212+ Atk Tirtouga Zen Headbutt vs. 76 HP / 156 Def Eviolite Timburr: 20-24 (80 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
116 Atk Timburr Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 92 Def Tirtouga: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
how hard to weaken timburr by 20%? Tirtouga can actually often be decently healthy after smashing thanks to BJ (not always ofc) so it can take a mach punch on the odd occasion
+2 212+ Atk Tirtouga Zen Headbutt vs. 124 HP / 160+ Def Eviolite Foongus: 20-24 (80 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
hmm pair with a fighting type + knock off
Teams that choose foo as the main fighter often struggle to deal with zenbutt tirtouga, and it pairs really well with your own mienfoo for Knock Off support on spritzee+foongus, amongst many other things, and it can set up on almost anything with hazard removal support.
Just to clarify, my opinion is that Tirt should stay A, however the reasoning that Cheek Pouch gave was incorrect. There is no reason to specifically prepare for Tirt, so implying that "its a monster if one doesn't prepare for it" is dumb. Just as a Pokemon, its flaws are almost always pre-determined to be present in teams. You can run Zen Headbutt to check Fighting-types, and yeah thats p cool, but it's just dominated by the fact its a SturdySmasher. Its reliant on always being at full health, unless your opponent is stupid. It simply has a hard time coming in, from taking chip damage from Stealth Rock, to weak moves like U-turn or even Acro, and to common Pokemon such as Abra, Mienfoo, Timburr, Chinchou, Pawniard, EQ Archen, Magnemite, Spritzee, Croagunk, Drilbur, Ferroseed, Staryu, etc etc. All these in A tier, extremely common Pokemon.
It's important to note that Tirtouga also struggles to be a relevant Fletchling check, as it doesn't want to break Sturdy. Lastly, the other thing that keeps it tied down is its Speed. Even after a Shell Smash, its Speed is kinda lackluster. Most Tirt run 11, which translates to 22, while others, specifically the Solid Rock SS set, typically run 10 Spe, hitting 20. This means that it's often outpaced by a simple Scarf Pokemon, as long as the base Speed is above 14 (so things like Mienfoo, Scraggy, Chinchou, Gastly, Scarf Pawn, and other rarer Scarf mons). Honestly you could slap a Scarfer on a team and end up checking Tirt.
The only reason I'm not saying this stuff about Omanyte is that it actually OHKOes a lot of the meta, still checks Fletchling, and isn't AS susceptible to Scarf mons, due to some inherent bulk. But, thats why its A-. Just know Rowan idc where Tirt ends up, but saying that teams don't prepare for it is incorrect, as it flat out loses to a majority of the meta.
It's important to note that Tirtouga also struggles to be a relevant Fletchling check, as it doesn't want to break Sturdy. Lastly, the other thing that keeps it tied down is its Speed. Even after a Shell Smash, its Speed is kinda lackluster. Most Tirt run 11, which translates to 22, while others, specifically the Solid Rock SS set, typically run 10 Spe, hitting 20. This means that it's often outpaced by a simple Scarf Pokemon, as long as the base Speed is above 14 (so things like Mienfoo, Scraggy, Chinchou, Gastly, Scarf Pawn, and other rarer Scarf mons). Honestly you could slap a Scarfer on a team and end up checking Tirt.
The only reason I'm not saying this stuff about Omanyte is that it actually OHKOes a lot of the meta, still checks Fletchling, and isn't AS susceptible to Scarf mons, due to some inherent bulk. But, thats why its A-. Just know Rowan idc where Tirt ends up, but saying that teams don't prepare for it is incorrect, as it flat out loses to a majority of the meta.
Probably to deal with A-Rank Tirtouga - who deserves that rank because of the SR/Knock Off/Ajet sets.
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
I would like to nominate Totodile for a rise to C+/B- rank. With Sheer Force+ LO, Totodile can become a great wallbreaker with set up moves like DD or Swords Dance. Sure, it gets compeititon from Corphish, but all Corphish has is a little more power with Adaptibility Crabhammer and Knock Off, which it doesn't even get STAB on. Totodile also has Ice Punch, which lets it hurt Grass types like Cottonee and Foongus. Sure, it can have problems with it's bulk and speed even after +1, but I think Totodile deserves a raise since I don't really think it faces that much competition from Corphish now
Corphish is bulkier, hits harder before boosting, especially since it gives its own knock off support, has superpower for ferroseed. Corphsh outclasses tododile in both sets, SD has boosted aqua jet, unlike tododile, and DD just spams knock off early game, and can actually take a hit because its ability wants the right item. All about that eviolite.
Also as you guys are discussing Corphish and I have seen how good it perform in tours matches its versatilly being really good as a wallbreaker and as a sweeper its time to corphish to raise, its imo the top underrated Pokemon at this point ,Corphish to A- reveals how much it is a threat with Superpower,Knock off ,Priority and Adaptability Stabs , the capacity it have to pressure offensive team with its bulk and DD set and defensive teams as well with SD set tazz thecrystalonix , I think you guys both agree :)
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Recover, Memento, good special attack, decent bulk. I heavily used Slugma, as well as Aerow, and it was very underrated. Slugma is much better than 99% of the mons listed in D rank, including Chikorita, Paras, Fennekin, Phantump, Geodude. . . It actually still irritates me that it and Minccino, are not C-... but whatever.
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eren
je suis d'ailleurs
I dont know if anyone has suggested this but w.e:
- Pimpkaboo (C+ -> B-):
I think we all underestimate the power of the life orb set. Has flame charge to boost speed, sneak for prio, seed for main STAB, and can even use synthesis to recover lo damage off as Mambo and Cased used on one of their teams (dont know they if they built but they probs did). I think just this can raise pimpkaboo (not a misspell)
also, this is just my opinion (js)
I think we all underestimate the power of the life orb set. Has flame charge to boost speed, sneak for prio, seed for main STAB, and can even use synthesis to recover lo damage off as Mambo and Cased used on one of their teams (dont know they if they built but they probs did). I think just this can raise pimpkaboo (not a misspell)
also, this is just my opinion (js)
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Supporting Trubbish to B rank, the usage of Pancham is so low at this point that you have no reason not to appreciate the support trubbish gives to bulk offense/offensive teams. this mon still the only decent hazard stacking mon for more offensive team and have acess to the really underrated t-spikes(absolutelly destroy teams with no hazard and you can pressure the most some defensive oriented teams with Toxic spikes), as long as ORAS gave us this monster worst nightmare in panda, we also have now the best spin blocker on Pumpkaboo-S that makes Trubbish a really useful pokemon with a very difficult to spin offensive spikes stacking( that is not a suicide lead), as much as Panda have not found the space it deserve as much as Mienfoo/Timburr stuff, what makes Trubbish still anti-meta at ORAS us it still doing a really different role from everyother mon in this meta
Mold Breaker Pancham was a problem for Trubbish, but certainly not its biggest one. Being the easiest set-up bait in the world is what makes Trubbish so undesirable, with Pokemon such as Timburr, Fletchling, and Omanyte, among others, being able to entirely ignore Trubbish as it sets up hazards or tickles them with its attacks and then kill it and possibly the rest of its team too. There's also Defog, so it's not like having a spinblocker is a sure-fire way to keep your hazards intact either. Trubbish is anti-meta in that it can beat Mienfoo and Pawniard, as well as Spritzee and Cottonee, but besides those it's underwhelming.
I got the LO set from absdaddy who I'm sure will support this rise, he has the best understanding of what the LO Flame Charge set does. Though I will say Bullet Seed puts in mad work against really fat mons, especially if you can manage a 5-hit with some good rolls.I dont know if anyone has suggested this but w.e:
- Pimpkaboo (C+ -> B-):
I think we all underestimate the power of the life orb set. Has flame charge to boost speed, sneak for prio, seed bomb for main STAB, and can even use synthesis to recover lo damage off as Mambo and Cased used on one of their teams (dont know they if they built but they probs did). I think just this can raise pimpkaboo (not a misspell)
also, this is just my opinion (js)
228+ Atk Life Orb Pumpkaboo-Small Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 236 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Porygon: 20-25 (76.9 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
228+ Atk Life Orb Pumpkaboo-Small Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 20-25 (74 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
228+ Atk Life Orb Pumpkaboo-Small Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 20-25 (80 - 100%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
228+ Atk Life Orb Pumpkaboo-Small Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 20-25 (83.3 - 104.1%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
etc, etc
absdaddy
Banned deucer.
yes it kos fucking spritzee with evio from full if you have some luck and 2hkos + lures and kills massive amount of bs after said luring; only viable set for this poor excuse of a pokemon
lo isn't mine, lo flamecharge is (+ slide to ko UNSUSPECTING ponyhorse that always stays on you even after your charge , even after sr) - good set that abuses peoples lack of brains while playing this ass game
and learn to calc with hazards up amateur Mambo
lo isn't mine, lo flamecharge is (+ slide to ko UNSUSPECTING ponyhorse that always stays on you even after your charge , even after sr) - good set that abuses peoples lack of brains while playing this ass game
and learn to calc with hazards up amateur Mambo
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eren
je suis d'ailleurs
Smh i always confuse them :(
It can't even beat fucking SD Pawn, is bait for trappers, is a sink for momentum, and loses to hazard removers. I can think of plenty better Spikes users than Trubbish (tbh it's criminal that so few people use Omanyte) that don't suck, so I see little reason to put Trubbish up. In fact, I'm of the opinion that it should drop lol
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