3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread [The Pentagon is back!!]

Since I've been rather intrigued by dragonite recently in battle spot, I've been trying it out. I've not been having much success in pretty much all the teams I've tried. I understand it's been getting a lot of attention in the Korean forums, an it seems like it always has for a while now. It may be because I'm not very good, and I'm not, but I feel like it's a bit overrated. What's so good about it? There are still fairies around. It's not as good as other DDers, especially the megas. The CB set is cool but I don't know much about it. My question is...is it actually good? It's only B+ on the viability list here on Smogon. What do the Japanese say about it (I consider the Japanese superior to the Koreans, which I admit to themselves)?
 

Jibaku

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From my recollection (I could be wrong), the Japanese often put Dragonite in C/B/B+ in terms of viability. However, it's worth keeping in mind that they don't necessarily follow the same S/A+/A/A-/B+/B/B- system that we have (usually I see more of SS/S/A/B/C), which I'd think translates to approximately B+ with our setup.

Unfortunately I did not bookmark most of the character rankings, but here are a few that may help out:

http://ropepokemon.hatenablog.com/entry/2015/04/26/203110?_ga=1.218997855.730595452.1427350459
http://ayukaze.hatenablog.com/entry/2015/06 /14/152746?_ga=1.154906110.730595452.1427350459 (Japanese Text only)
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/zangehu0226/20150209/1423488160
Rocky Helmet Rankings: http://sikikiri.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-306.html

Alternatively, look up

ORAS シングル キャラランク
 
I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing the number-1 pokemon Garchomp on battlespot, regardless of what your rating is. It's for a good reason as it is one of the best pokemons. I consider it a top-3 battlespot singles pokemon, along with Kangaskhan-mega and Gengar-mega. Its sash, CB, scarf, as well as more defensive sets are all amazing. Putting aside my Garchomp glorification, I'd like to discuss Garchomp-mega. It is pretty bad, a statement I believe many will agree with. However, just how bad is it? Has there recently been a top-tier team on the ladder with mega garchomp in it? I fear this is extremely unlikely since you lose the chance to use megas that are actually good, which is a far greater deal in 3v3 than in 6v6. I'm pretty sick of using/seeing same megas over and over again so I was wondering if there are any input regarding this topic.
 
Lol...mega garchomp. As you said, opportunity cost of using a mega in battle spot singles is hilariously huge...far greater than that of smogon-format singles. Therefore, I truly believe mega garchomp is a piece of trash. I've actually never seen a highly rated team with a mega garchomp. That may be due to the fact that I've never reached that high in the ladder.

I hate garchomp so much.
 

ethan06

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The thing with Mega Garchomp is that there are a lot of important Pokémon sitting in between 92 and 102 speed, Pokémon that Garchomp really benefits from outspeeding. While Mega Garchomp is powerful, it doesn't have enough good traits to put it over regular Garchomp as any power gained can be made up with a Life Orb or a Choice Band instead, and bulky sets are done better by Hippowdon. At least in regular form you can abuse Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin if you must use Fat Chomp. I guess you could make an argument for Sand Force, but that requires essentially two teamslots to make it worthwhile, and if you go with Hippowdon over Tyranitar you're stacking an Ice weakness which is never good. Mega Garchomp is basically outclassed unfortunately, unless you want to go full sand and wallbreak defensive teams or whatever, but there's just far too many 100 Speed mons in Battle Spot Singles to really justify it :(
 
iv been playing bss again recently and it's a lot like ou. Landorus-t is everywhere lmao
Also, iv gotten some rotten luck running into nothing but special mmence and specially biased mega blaziken
 
Olijolly and ethan, I nderstand. I just wanted to be wrong in this case so I can see megas that aren't Kang, Gengar, and Salamence (blaziken as well).


iv been playing bss again recently and it's a lot like ou. Landorus-t is everywhere lmao
Also, iv gotten some rotten luck running into nothing but special mmence and specially biased mega blaziken
I pretty never see special salamence-mega or special blaziken-mega. I've probably seen like less than 10 for the former and...2 for the latter.
 
I'm sorry but I've never understood why garchomp has been the #1 most used and top-tier pokemon in oras battle spot (let's talk singles). I undertand it can do a lot of things but isn't the 102 speed still meh, or worse with all the ridiculously fast megas and priorities? In 6v6 singles, garchomp has regained it's former glory somewhat via tanky rocky helmet+rough skin set. But in oras battle spot singles, it's been the king...pertty much forever. I don't have high ladder scores so I likely do not undertsand the meta. But I still don't see what's so great about garchomp.
 
the 102 base speed stat is an amazing stat because it outspeeds the crowded (and powerful) base 100 stat consisting of threats like Kangaskhan-M Gardevoir-M Charizards-M etc and even the base 101 of non scarfed Thundurus-T.
Not only that, but Garchomp has spectacular dual stab. Ground/Dragon coverage is great and powerful reliable stab in EQ and then a great move to lock yourself into in Outrage add onto the amazing speed tier. EQ is a base 100 power attack. After STAB, it is not a move to take lightly no matter if a Hippo/Gliscor or an offensive user like Garchomp or Excadrill uses it. SD allows Garchomp to just tear thru teams or make large enough holes they can't recover from and is a common component of Sashed Chomps' movesets. Even without SD, the banded variants let this fast-enough beast tear things up and often time nails typical switch-ins so hard that the victim has to alter their gameplan accordingly often time helplessly sacking off a very important part of their team or switching out into another mon who also takes a serious hurting, ultimately resulting in a losing game. The Scarf variant is able to outspeed key threats like +1 ZardX and a fresh MBlaziken that can only get a Protect up for 1 boost as well as other scarfers like Landorus-t, Hydreigon and Thundurus-T.

Defensively, this thing has access to the ability Rough Skin which just by having allows it to do 1 layer of spikes or SR worth of damage including breaking sashes of contact attackers if not KO em and win in tight games such as a game decided by a Scizor bp KOing chomp only to lose to Rough Skin damage or especially Kanga fainting by going for Sucker Punch or being forced to eq, being KOd before it can move (depending on the game situation of course). Also includes worn down Tflames and Blazikens KOing themselves to Rough Skin and losing even though they KO you based on their hp and the game situation. Rough Skin allows Garchomp to act as a much more valuable sack piece than other Mons due to this ability as nailing a nifty rough skin contact can change a game around at times.
Dragon/Ground is also decent defensively as it gives you notable resistances such as an immunity to Electric type attacks, a Fire resist, and Rock resist.
Not the best defensive typing but due to its stats 108/95/85, especially that HP base stat, it can survive many unboosted hidden power Ice (and still manages to not be guaranteed KO by some slightly boosted). Due to its typing and defensive stats, it manages to survive HJK from Adamant Mega Blaziken even after SR! LO Blaziken, who hits slightly harder than MBlaz, still has a ~50% chance to OHKO Garchomp after SR. Garchomp is bulky enough to survive Banded Brave Bird from Talonflame and +2 adamant TFlame Brave Bird is still a roll vs Garchomp! This general bulk is a big deal which can be easily overlooked
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 169-201 (92.3 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Not only that, you can further enhance Garchomp's defensive use with Rocky Helmet and/or a less invested into attack ev spread with more emphasis on bulk. You can even run Substitute viably with Garchomp due to the base hp, so that even seismic toss can't break em!

this Mon can also function as an offensive SR setter depending on your team's needs.

In conclusion, Garchomp is a Pokemon with phenomenal stat distribution, great offensive typing and decent defensive typing that can do various things very well and has an ideal base speed stat due to the fact that it edges out the highly cluttered (and threat-riddled) base 100 speed tier which makes this Pokemon as commonly used as it is!
 
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I guess the 3v3 and 6v6 really are very different...different enough for garchomp to be a great pokemon in one and ridiculously amazing pokemon in the other. I always thought something like landorus was going to hurt its viability but it's pretty obvious they are very different. Thank you.
 
umm Why has this turned dead? WHY HASN'T ANYONE POSTED WHEN THUNDURUS-I BECAME TOP 12?!?!?!?! And by extension, talk about it damn it it's in top 12 o_o
(goes back under a rock angrily)
 

cant say

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Thundurus broke the top 12 back in May and I posted about it then, lol. It's been steadily rising and is currently no.7 which I think is pretty crazy, it's steadily emerging as an absolute top tier threat imo. I wonder how high it will go I should use the shiny one I got for some fun before the ladder resets in ~12 hours.
 
Has anyone tried a Mega Gengar + Wobbufett Perish Trap core? It would be weak to heavy offense and VoltTurn, but perhaps a team could be built around them for it to work. Am I on to something or is it too gimmicky?
 

Demantoid

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Has anyone tried a Mega Gengar + Wobbufett Perish Trap core? It would be weak to heavy offense and VoltTurn, but perhaps a team could be built around them for it to work. Am I on to something or is it too gimmicky?
I think there was a popular Wobuffet Gengar core like 3-4 months ago.
 

cant say

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Has anyone tried a Mega Gengar + Wobbufett Perish Trap core? It would be weak to heavy offense and VoltTurn, but perhaps a team could be built around them for it to work. Am I on to something or is it too gimmicky?
Theorymon was hyping this core up a while ago. It bascially allows you to Perish Song something, use Protect and/or Sub to stall a turn or two, then switch out to Wobbuffet so they still cannot escape the Perish Song. This allows you to bring in Gengar again to Perish Song something else and try to stall again with Protect and switching. It's really evil and led to a bunch of random things running Shed Shell or Volt Switch (with a Dark type to absorb Wob's Mirror Coat) and U-turn (with a Ghost to take the Counter and also switch freely from Shadow Tag). It's not as popular anymore (Wobbuffet rose into Gengar's top 12 most common teammates but has since dropped out) but it could still work if you wanted to annoy people haha.
 

Theorymon

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Has anyone tried a Mega Gengar + Wobbufett Perish Trap core? It would be weak to heavy offense and VoltTurn, but perhaps a team could be built around them for it to work. Am I on to something or is it too gimmicky?
Yep, and like cant say said, I did hype it up! Just a word of warning though: If you use this core, be prepared to base a LOT of your team around it! It's very very dangerous, but I hypothesize that the reason Wobbuffet dropped out of Gengar's top teammates is because Gengar + Wobbuffet teams often need specific Pokemon like secondary sweepers, back up Mega Pokemon, back up plans, etc.

Some good secondary mons to consider if you wanna go this route:

Mega Charziard X and Mega Kangaskhan are the best back up megas

Blaziken, Garchomp, Swords Dance Talonflame and Nasty Plot Thundurus are good back up sweepers.

You might also want to check out the Wobbuffet analysis onsite for more details!
 

cant say

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http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sKO6gtYmBNk/VajfaogD5rI/AAAAAAAACV0/T92dw2WaArs/s1600/KPS10_01.png

this is the BS singles usage stats for various rating blocks. For 1800 and above ratings, things like garchomp and blaziken went down quite a bit in usage compared to the last season. Stuff like Mega salamence, mamoswine, and dragonite went up in usage. Salamence, especially, got boosted up in usage quite a bit.
Where do these stats come from? They don't make sense to me, they don't seem to correlate with the PGL at all (stuff like Serperior being consitently high yet not in the top 12 on the PGL). Are they just for Japanese users? What does KP mean? I see a twitter handle at the top, is this just what that guy runs into?
 
Um well, I can't read japanese at all but I can use google translate to navigate the guy's page. After going to his twitter I found his blog and found this post: http://nouthuca.blogspot.jp/2015/07/10oraskp.html

Right in the first paragraph there's something that says "with the cooperation of the user, we have put together a rate band" which sounds like this could be some kind of community made thing rather than stats directly from PGL. If that's the case it would make sense since those stats seem to reflect mostly japanese usage. But, that's just a translation from google translate so take it with a grain of salt I guess lol

I also came across this on his blog: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-W0n_8srZxpI/Vae9Fjawb2I/AAAAAAAACVc/bAAvClY35oA/s1600/ORAS_S10_PGLKP.png

This chart seems to reflect the PGL usage literally(this is my guess at least, looking at the top 12 on pgl this is pretty accurate aside from very minor differences which im assuming have to do with the timing of when these people collect the stats), and it shows up to the top 50 which is pretty neat! And it shows the stats from every format as well :D except Special but oh well.
 
Where do these stats come from? They don't make sense to me, they don't seem to correlate with the PGL at all (stuff like Serperior being consitently high yet not in the top 12 on the PGL). Are they just for Japanese users? What does KP mean? I see a twitter handle at the top, is this just what that guy runs into?
Keep in mind the PGL stats are only usage of the 3 pokemon brought into matches. That means Pokemon like Serperior may as well be on a majority of these teams or even trubbish (I'm saying a pokemon and a mild swear all in one word haha) and the top 12 will still be w/e they are since these Pokemon aren't brought to as many games. So having a nugget feraligatr on the team as the 6th slot, never using it, and playing 1000+ matches at 1600+ won't alter usage data and make gatr even a .1% nugget holder :'(

Also, you can use trubbish the same way and see no usage data for it lol
 

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