Tauros (OU Revamp)

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Already wrote one here so I figured I'd leave it here in case it'd be a nice addition to the dex!

[Introduction]

Tauros, the bull, is considered the King of RBY. The mascot of the metagame has it all - power, speed, bulk, luck. Tauros's earnt its spot due to it being the best at its unique role. His speed is high, and that also means his critical hit rate is high, his attack stat is high, his special and overall bulk are just high enough. It'd be difficult to think up a better way to distribute its stats, or improve its movepool. Being a Normal type, it's immune to the Paralysis of Body Slam, but this hinders it as much as helps it, since Body Slam is one of its key moves.

[Set]


name: Standard
move 1: Body Slam
move 2: Hyper Beam
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Blizzard

[Set Details]

Body Slam is your main STAB; it's resisted only by Rock and Ghost types, and only Normal or Ghost types can avoid being Paralyzed by it, making its 30% Paralysis chance very nifty. Earthquake hits all of the Pokemon that resist it or are immune (Rhydon, Golem, and Gengar are the only truly relevant ones in OU) for Super-Effective damage. It also can be used to stop Counter from working (since it counters only Normal and Fighting type moves), which is a common enough move on Jynx, Snorlax, and Chansey to worry about. Blizzard does Extra damage on Rhydon and Golem (can OHKO with a critical hit, whilst Earthquake can't come close), as well as doing a little extra damage on Exeggutor and Zapdos. Hyper Beam doesn't need to recharge if it KOs the opponent (or breaks a substitute), and can do incredible damage, getting early KOs, and can be used in an emergency scenario - STAB Critical Hit Hyper Beam from Tauros OHKOs nearly everything that doesn't resist it.

[How To Use Tauros]

Tauros generally works better late-game. Not only is more stuff vulnerable, with status spread and opponents weakened, but if you get Tauros in too early Snorlax can often switch in and win 1v1, even after taking a Body Slam on the switch, especially if it has Counter. Tauros should be used as a revenge killer and a sweeper, a cleaner for late-game.

You should always make the effort to get it in safely, without taking damage or paralysis, if you can possibly manage it. This often means when you've lost a Pokemon, but if you can predict well, Paralyzed Alakazam/Chansey's Recover/Softboiled is a potential chance to switch in - whilst, unless they're on very low health before they recover, you won't be incredibly threatening if they manage to heal successfully, you have the possibility of a full paralysis, which could put yourself in an incredibly good situation. It's not usually worth it for the risk of paralysis (they might throw out an odd Twave in some situations if they think there's a risk of Tauros switching in) so you usually only do that if you're in a situation of desperation. In terms of playing with it, you should be happy to go 1v1 with any Pokemon that you can OHKO at that point, and versus any Pokemon you can't OHKO at that point, anything that's not liable to explode, counter, or status, unless you can't afford the risk of having to switch out.

A Tauros ditto (where Tauros is versus Tauros occurs) is not something to avoid - it's very common (unless you or your opponent aren't running Tauros, or you're leagues above or below your opponent), and there's almost never an option to switch to something that'd give you a better matchup (although switching in a Rhydon/Golem into a Hyper Beam to KO it for free on the recharge turn might be an option). In this scenario, except in rare circumstances, the best play is to Body Slam twice than Hyper Beam. Beware about Hyper Beam being soaked up by a Rhydon or Golem though, on the final turn of a ditto.

[How To Play Against Tauros]


Generally, avoid switching out as much as possible, but healthy Snorlax (particularly CounterLax), Zapdos, Slowbro, Lapras, Exeggutor, Starmie, Articuno, Chansey, and Cloyster, are able to switch in fairly safely (though they may not win 1v1, and may prefer coming in on another move, e.g. Blizzard, if possible). Cloyster hates paralysis, but can explode or otherwise do heavy damage. Snorlax can't be paralyzed by body slam, but it's often used a lot in the earlier part of the game, so may not be healthy enough when Tauros comes in to be able to switch in. Reflect+Rest, Counter, and Self-Destruct all are useful in this scenario. Gengar's an option to switch in, as it's immune to Body Slam and Hyper Beam, and it can be used to bait out Earthquakes, but generally it's not doing anything useful versus Tauros apart from perhaps Exploding. Golem can switch in when healthy (ideally on a Hyper Beam) and use Explosion versus it, but Blizzard OHKOs on a critical hit, and can KO without one after an Earthquake. It can explode safely if you can get it to switch in on a Hyper Beam though. Lapras could come in on a Blizzard quite happily (as could the others, but not as easily). Chain switching is when you abuse resists to switch a Pokemon in without any Pokemon taking lots of damage or if possible status. It's sometimes considered gimmicky, but it can definitely be effective.

Very often the only or best way is to take it out is via a Tauros ditto. Often later on in the match when 2 Pokémon both faint (usually due to Explosion), or something is injured beyond use or easily forced out or KO'd by Tauros after an Explosion, etc. then it may be the only thing that can switch in versus a potential Tauros switch-in. Carrying a fast Pokémon outside of the lead spot that can KO an opposing Tauros if you lose a ditto (Alakazam, Jolteon, Starmie, Persian, whilst Gengar can tie) is the best security but is not strictly nessecary. Since Body Slam cannot Paralyze Normal types, it's definitely a sensible consideration.

Counter on Chansey and Snorlax can be used to help beat Tauros, but it should be primarily used for opposing Snorlax. If you're taking a more defensive approach, Tanklax (with Reflect and Rest) can take it on, although it handles it a lot better if Tauros is Paralyzed. Raish Chansey (as it's sometimes known - Reflect/Seismic Toss/Thunder Wave) can spread paralysis onto Tauros fairly easily, although it can't switch in easily.

[Other Options]

Thunderbolt's another option but it's a fairly poor one. Doing a lot of extra damage to Cloyster, and a little more versus Slowbro and Lapras, is generally not worth it for the utility of either Earthquake or Blizzard. Fire Blast still does a lot of damage to Exeggutor, and can be used to get a Burn (about 45% of the time) in Tauros dittos, neutering the opposing tauros; nevertheless, like Thunderbolt, it's not usually worth it for the utility lost by not using one of the 4 moves on its standard set. Finally, Substitute can be used when people death fodder Sleeping,Frozen, or low HP Pokemon etc. versus Tauros, but losing Blizzard is pretty costly.

3:O
 
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I would say Substitute is actually the best option out of the stuff listed in OO. Foddering stuff to Tauros is commonplace, and in the endgame when there's less Twave flying around, Tauros is much less likely to get punished for using it. Meanwhile Cloy is both rare and not all that great, while personally I wouldn't have listed FB in the first place- Tauros should be killing things, not unreliably spreading a bad status

I'm not sure how well any of your analyses conform to the existing format as well =/

Anyway I like discussing this stuff, cool work =]
 
Both the Exeggutor and Tauros analyses are relatively up to date as I revamped then around 2 years ago. I'm not saying that my analyses are perfect at all, but I don't believe that another revamp is absolutely necessary. Personally, I'd first focus on the analyses I didn't update myself (check my signature) since they are almost 10 years old and also generally less detailed.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Alright I'll have a look that way, however it's a lil challenging with the changes of new meta to really agree with what's best.

I wrote these up on Pokemon Perfect for fun a while ago and felt like leaving copies here.

edit:
This being said I'm thinking with the new meta and a couple of the ones you've written, there are changes to be made. For example, now Reflect Chansey is really the primary chansey set (imo) whilst exeggutor shouldn't have dedge/md slashed, just hyper beam

Gonna use this post to summarise nessecary changes:
Chansey - reflect set first set
Exeggutor - HB>degde+md on set
Gengar - NS>MD as standard
Golem - overview - it's not as good as it once was. Slash Sub w/ BSlam on main set.
Jolteon - overview - it's better early/midgame than lategame. 'A paralyzed Jolteon is really a useless Jolteon; it will lose to most physical attackers, and loses its amazing critical hit rate. It is a very good option if you get tired of using Tauros and is actually very fun to use because of its amazing sweeping potential.' it actually gets the mechanics wrong too!!!! - double kick should be the only move in the fouth slot. + more to fix.
Jynx - Rest>Mimic on the main set.
Lapras - the set is just wrong lol
Persian - remove the gyarados mention, make it clear it's pretty mediocre.
Rhydon - slash HB with Sub
Slowbro - needs some general updates [lots of stuff in the overview is a bit incorrect in the advent of gen 6 for example, psychic should be first slash over surf on the main set]
Snorlax - Counter slash with HB on fishlax, surf only getting a mention rather than a slash. RestLax being treated as one broad thing with lots of discussion.
Starmie - really good analysis, but w/ recent updates, Psychic in first slash over Blizzard is a must, with blizzard slashed after tbolt too.
Victreebel - good but the sets are a tiny bit off
Zapdos - thunder and LS should be slashed on main set, reflect probably the first OO mention.

Moltres - venusaur doesn't exist as a lead, this needs an update.
Raichu - shitty mon but its main set is incorrect.
Kingler - the analysis undersells it. I'd not be the best to write about it, but noone should push raish into doing it, it'll come when he wants to. In the mean time I'll try and write something, it's definitely a valid Pokemon in OU though.
Machamp - it begins with 'Machamp is a good Pokemon' so this needs a revamp.

---

Persian and Articuno REALLY shouldn't be listed as OU in the dex goddamn. [although Jolt is better than rhydon golem and gengar it should definitely be OU!]
Much as I love Vic it shouldn't be either.
 
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Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Tagging Jellicent to see if I am able to write and have uploaded these revamps? :O

Also if you could comment on this analysis [although tauros is not in as big a need of a revamp as some stuff] that would be welcomed
 
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alright time to comment. First of all
Persian and Articuno REALLY shouldn't be listed as OU in the dex goddamn. [although Jolt is better than rhydon golem and gengar it should definitely be OU!]
Much as I love Vic it shouldn't be either.
Not really. Based on that UU thread that was posted in RoA a while back it was decided that we'll just use PO's tiers, in which case they're all OU. Saying they shouldn't be listed as OU is going too far, since that's both unofficial and a contentious issue.
Gonna use this post to summarise nessecary changes:
Chansey - reflect set first set
I'm not yet convinced it should replace Tbolt, but Reflect is definitely better than Counter and things should be adjusted accordingly
Exeggutor - HB>degde+md on set
Disagree, Stun spore should be the only slash
Golem - overview - it's not as good as it once was. Slash Sub w/ BSlam on main set.
Don't think it's worth a slash, though over BSlam should be noted in OO. Also the intro def needs changing lol, as well as C&C being barren
Rhydon - slash HB with Sub
Again, disagree with warranting a slash, sub is fantastic for abusing para'd mons, which should be everything Rhydon faces
Snorlax - Counter slash with HB on fishlax, surf only getting a mention rather than a slash. RestLax being treated as one broad thing with lots of discussion.
I'm of the opinion that Counterlax is heavily overrated, and I oppose it getting a slash. It's difficult to use effectively, and giving up HB is a huge deal, you do not want to give Chansey that extra breathing space. Surf definitely needs to be banished to OO, and if you're suggesting RestLax being lumped into one thing, I disagree, Reflect is very different to Amnesia.
Starmie - really good analysis, but w/ recent updates, Psychic in first slash over Blizzard is a must, with blizzard slashed after tbolt too.
What, no way. Psychic should not take precedence over Blizzard. I agree that it should be slashed with both Tbolt and Blizzard tho

Everything else I agree with
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
marcoasd care to comment?

also yeah making reflect and amnesia into two sets makes a lot of sense. I think Counter is very much worth running but maybe I'm still running the mechanics hype train - I tend to get more mileage out of counter though.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I'd say "new meta" calls for tweaking Crystal_'s analyses. But certainly not full revamps lol.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I think one or two could do with fuller revamps, some of the others could do with tweaking. What do we call it when it's a small change - like I don't title it as revamp do I? Jellicent
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
Reflect Chansey is fucking garbdix and should not even be mentioned in the analysis because you're just going to trick newbies into thinking it's usable
 
OH WOW! Reflect Chansey is viable, and now it can switch into Snorlax and rocks pretty safely when not paralyzed (as long as they don't get a rare crit). It can take all kind of explosions, and has good chances to beat Tauros one on one, too.
Nobody is going to say it's invincible, of course.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
piexplodes post reeks of spending too much time with italy tbh

while reflect chansey is indeed viable it is absolutely not the metagame defining set that boltbeam twave softboiled is and doesn't deserve to be the primary chansey set

hyper beam exeggutor is not superior to double-edge/egg bomb/mega drain to the point that it'd be the only slash. all of those moves should be an OO, stun spore is just that much better

Golem - i disagree with slashing substitute over body slam, the incoming boom is heavily telegraphed and you lose out on paralyzing starmie which is big

jolteon is better lategame than early/mid (lead jolt is good as a lead - not good after leading is over tho)

what's with adding nonstab hbeam to random things. rhydon makes much better use of substitute than hyper beam, hyper beam is LITERALLY only for paralyzed exeggutor that's at ~28-41% percent. not even OO worthy imo

starmie with tbolt psychic twave is just lol

rule of thumb, if a set works because it's unexpected it doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the analysis except as an OO
 
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piexplodes post reeks of spending too much time with italy tbh

while reflect chansey is indeed viable it is absolutely not the metagame defining set that boltbeam twave softboiled is and doesn't deserve to be the primary chansey set

hyper beam exeggutor is not superior to double-edge/egg bomb/mega drain to the point that it'd be the only slash. all of those moves should be an OO, stun spore is just that much better

Golem - i disagree with slashing substitute over body slam, the incoming boom is heavily telegraphed and you lose out on paralyzing starmie which is big

jolteon is better lategame than early/mid (lead jolt is good as a lead - not good after leading is over tho)

what's with adding nonstab hbeam to random things. rhydon makes much better use of substitute than hyper beam, hyper beam is LITERALLY only for paralyzed exeggutor that's at ~28-41% percent. not even OO worthy imo

starmie with tbolt psychic twave is just lol

rule of thumb, if a set works because it's unexpected it doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the analysis except as an OO
8:46... you what mate?
As Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave are mandatory, Psychic is the STAB to go against Tauros/Snorlax while spreading special drops on things like Chansey, at least. Sorry for not hitting Egg, Zapdos and rocks as hard, ofc. Blizzard can still be considered the standard, but we all know it's disappointing at times.

Reflect Chansey should always be kept in mind for how it's dangerous when not paralyzed, and the peculiar trait to be very likely to survive Snorlax's boom+Tauros' Hyper Beam combo. Spamming Ice Beam is an easier thing to do most games, though.

All in all movesets depend on how the metagame shifts, and yeah Piex doesn't like a single standard moveset. I don't like mirror matches myself.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
that starmie had surf tbolt twave ;_; and it's still not a good set in my mind even if i used it two years ago.

i'm not saying reflect chansey should be disregarded, on the contrary it is a threat, but it isn't the standard and shouldn't be listed as the standard set.
 
Why? 2 years ago you knew the game and what was happening around; picked Surf to get over Snorlax, Tauros, rocks and maybe Alakazam.
Standard movesets are named so as they give the best coverage, but (as long as you have some clue) making a bet looks fine to me.
Only thing we could argue about on the specific case is that Surf has no secondary effect, and it makes Exeggutor an hard counter.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I think Starmie is mediocre no matter how you slice it, but I'd sooner run STAB than Blizzard if I had to choose. Surf > Psychic because otherwise Rocks can stay in on you which is ridiculous.
 
Surf is awful, Psychic outclasses it in every respect by virtue of almost identical power and the potential for Special drops. Surf literally only hits GolDon and Zam- firstly Zam walls you regardless, so you're not gaining anything there, while you're still a strong check to Rocks, unless you don't run blizzard and are para'd and unlucky. When Psychic is better for beating Lax, can let you play as a Zam-lite vs Chansey and hits Lapras neutrally, I don't see any reasonable justification for ever using Surf.

Hydro Pump is another matter, but I still think it sucks
 
Not saying that Surf is good, but you just gave a justification for using it by saying that you OHKO GolDon, which is especially helpful vs Golem because it just explodes on you if you don't get a Blizzard crit. Outside of that, it hits Jynx harder than everything else, which nobody has mentioned yet. That being said, Surf is not surperior to any of the other options. Ortheore you say that STarmie is a strong check to Rocks, unless you don't run blizzard. Imo if you run Psychic you cannot run Blizzard on the same set except if you chose to drop T-wave, because Thunderbolt i believe is mandatory.

Almost forgot: Starmie is not "mediocre"! Like at all... :D
 

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