ORAS OU Attempting to Dance in the Rain....

[DragonDemiGod]

http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/#?186|598|149|454|9m|479w ( I do not know if if this ok, but this the coverage chart for this team)

Dragonite
Mild Nature
Hold Item: Life Orb
Ability: Multi-Scale
Spread: 76 Atk/252 SpA / 176 Spe


Moveset:

Ø Hurricane

Ø Thunder

Ø Aqua Tail

Ø Earthquake


The mixed attacker of the team; Since this is rain based, he can get perfect accuracy off of two powerful moves themselves. While I am not sure about Aqua Tail over Super power, the coverage allows me to hit different pokemon I think may switch in on Dragonite. Thunder 30% Paralysis rate along with Hurricane’s 30% confusion rate does offer a second though on those who resist these hits. Questioning on whether I move Aqua Tail for Superpower or Ice Beam

Politoed
Calm Nature
Hold Item: Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drizzle
Spread 252 HP/ 76 Def/ 76 SpA/ 100 SpD/ 4 Spe

Moveset:

Ø Icy Wind

Ø Scald

Ø Encore

Ø Protect


100 base Special Defense Politoed allowed me to fulfill a need for a special tank on the team, one that can auto spring Rain Dance and can provide some control of the battlespace. Initially, I wanted Ice Beam for damage output, but gaining speed control was far more important. I like how he’ll immediately give Dragonite some access to spam Thunder/Hurricane if they pair up in the opening of the battle. Encore lets me lock protect users and scald to pass some burns about.

Toxicroack
Jolly Nature
Hold Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
Spread: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


Moveset:

Ø Swords Dance

Ø Gunk Shot

Ø Drain Punch

Ø Sucker Punch


The Set up guy for the team; Normally, he should be running Adamant, but I brought him in under jolly to see if I can get some chances at outspeeding some opponents. The he’s set for the long haul to constantly replenish her HP under rain and after a swords dance, let’s me hit neutral hits pretty hard (although it would be devastating under Adamant). The moveset is designed to hit fairy with Gunk Shot (miss), but drain punch and sucker punch allows for decent coverage and may surprisingly nail a KO.

Ferrothorn
Relaxed Nature
Hold Item: Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Spread: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD


Moveset:

Ø Spikes

Ø Leech Seed

Ø Protect

Ø Power Whip


The utility guy: He’s here to set up an entry hazard and tank some hits. I am not really counting on him to get a KO, but he might just be able to if the opponents’ weak enough to do so. His only attacking moves are STAB, so I do like having him come in on fairy pokemon or on Poison Types like Venusaur, which will give me at least a free turn of Spikes to set out.

Blastoise (Mega)
Modest Nature
Hold item: Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
Spread: 236 HP/ 252 SpA /20 Spe


Moveset:

Ø Rapid Spin

Ø Dark Pulse

Ø Aura Sphere

Ø Scald


The Special Tank: He pairs up nicely with Dragonite, able to take the hits for Dragonite and clear entry hazards. Dark Pulse will keep Ghost pokemon at bay, while running the Aura Sphere becomes a base 120 that doesn’t miss, letting me get KO’s on Dark, Ice, Rock, Steel s switch in’s that are weak to it. Scald lets me pass around some burn, although I may shift this around to get some ice coverage for the dragons that may find their way in.

Rotom – W
Modest Nature
Hold Item: Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Spread : 240 HP/ 56 Def / 156 SpAtk /56 SpDef

Moveset:

Ø Volt Switch

Ø Rain Dance

Ø Hydro Pump

Ø Hidden Power Ice


The Second Rain: I kind wanted to use Rotom as packing some punch. It definitively lets me get around Earthquakes and is a slight shot at letting handle some Dragon Pokemon (though I may want to enlist a fairy in this regard) via hidden power Ice. Hydro Pump lets me hit hard under the rain and thunder gets perfect accuracy. I am concerned enough that I might want to put volt switch on instead.

This is my first attempt at a rain dance team for sixth Generation. I like it, but I am trying to find that missing link to making this exceptional. In testing, it performs ok, but I can't quite place the hang up. I think I could do better with type coverage and I think my more powerful hitters depend on the rain a little much more than I am comfortable with. Yet, I know when I get rolling, it certainly packs a big punch and fast.

 

[Lilligant for OU]

Okay two things:

1. If you have Leech Seed in Ferrothorn, you need protect, I can't stress that enough. So consider Protect > Gyro Ball or Power Whip.

2. Volt Switch is essentially a mandate on any Rotom of any kind. So Volt Switch > Thunder.

 

[DragonDemiGod]

Okay two things:

1. If you have Leech Seed in Ferrothorn, you need protect, I can't stress that enough. So consider Protect > Gyro Ball or Power Whip.

2. Volt Switch is essentially a mandate on any Rotom of any kind. So Volt Switch > Thunder.

I will make the adjustments. Other than that, would you recommend any other minor adjustments to this? I am still on the fence whether I am going to adjust Dragonite for Superpower and whether I should cut Aura Sphere for an Ice Beam to further check dragons.

 

[Aquarium1]

Interesting team. I'd appreciate if you want into more detail on the evs spread on some of pokemon like dragonite and politoed since I don't want to recommend a change to them that actually critical to your team success. Anyway since dragonite is your best answer to charizard y on the team I'd recommend running roosts over earthquake. I would replace stirus berry with damp rock on politoed to extend the rain and remove icy wind for either ice beam or toxic and protect for rest. Also might want to make give politoed 96 spe so it can outspeed azumaril and encore it into belly drum. I'd make rotom-w much more defensive considering you need it to be able to take hits from talonflame, tornadus, and azumaril. Finally considering your team is weak to mega lopunny I'd replace ferrothorn with bronzong since bronzong can wall more or less the same things but doesn't lose to lopunny.

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hurricane
- Aqua Tail
- Thunder
- Roost

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP/ 76 Def/ 76 SpA/ 100 SpD/ 4 Spe or 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- ice beam/toxic
- Encore
- Rest

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 SpD
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 def
relax Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

 

[DragonDemiGod]

Interesting team. I'd appreciate if you want into more detail on the evs spread on some of pokemon like dragonite and politoed since I don't want to recommend a change to them that actually critical to your team success. Anyway since dragonite is your best answer to charizard y on the team I'd recommend running roosts over earthquake. I would replace stirus berry with damp rock on politoed to extend the rain and remove icy wind for either ice beam or toxic and protect for rest. Also might want to make give politoed 96 spe so it can outspeed azumaril and encore it into belly drum. I'd make rotom-w much more defensive considering you need it to be able to take hits from talonflame, tornadus, and azumaril. Finally considering your team is weak to mega lopunny I'd replace ferrothorn with bronzong since bronzong can wall more or less the same things but doesn't lose to lopunny.

I chose the sets I did as follows:

Dragonite:

It is the B/W rain mixed attacking set. Since I wasn't so sure on setting Superpower or Aqua Tail, the spread lets me hit hard with Aqua Tail under Rain, but if I went for Superpower, allows me to OHKO Tyranitar, Heatran 81% of the time, and Blissey/Chansey as a 2HKO after Stealth Rock. However, its counterintuitive to run Life Orb and Roost on Multiscale Dragonite, since I will constantly break my own scale for damage. I would find it more efficient to run the same spread, but

Dragonite
Hold Item: Weakness Policy
Naive Nature
76 Atk/ 252 SpAtk / 176 Spe

Moveset
Extreme Speed
Thunder
Roost
Hurricane

I'd get boosted damage from the weakness policy (since multiscale halves the damage I'd take). And then allow me to stomp on Lopunny. Running the weakness policy lets me free up Life Orb for Toxicroak, who can really use the extra damage and heals off the recoil with Drain Punch. Now, I admit that this may be a bit awkward stacking it up against Dragonite, since I know should smoke Toxicroak, Possibly Politoed and Ferrothorn. So for now, I have Dragonite as my counter to it, but I may list later, some possible alternatives to this potential exploit.

Damage Calculation
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 178-210 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 36-42 (11.1 - 13%) -- possible 8HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 90-106 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 678-800 (250.1 - 295.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 226-267 (83.3 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 76- Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 148-175 (54.6 - 64.5%)

With Rotom-W, I was more concerned having a second Rain Dance as I know Sun Teams can sometimes carry two setters. Also, I wanted to try and catch a suprise KO if possible, and still have something to deal with Bulky Grass Switch-ins barring Ludicolo and Mega Venusaur.

Damage Calculation
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 830-978 (538.9 - 635%) -- guaranteed OHKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 152-179 (98.7 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 528-624 (342.8 - 405.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 29-35 (9.5 - 11.5%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 29-35 (9.5 - 11.5%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 23-28 (7.5 - 9.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

So where Talonflame is concerned, there really isn't a need to overly invest defensively since Rotom-W checks it very well. So lets look at Tornadus: (I'm using a Life Orb as a set through Pokemon Showdown, so if there is a better set, please let me know so I can readjust my calculations):

76 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 114-135 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
76 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 66-79 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- 4.6% chance to 4HKO
216 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Rotom-W: 90-107 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 15.9% chance to 3HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 192-226 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 242-288 (80.9 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tornadus-T: 140-166 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO

Still, not bad. However, because I don't have sustainability, it puts me in a bad way for someone to come in and revenge kill. I may consider then dropping HP Ice in favor of Pain Split to keep some survivability.

Still, I have then also consider Choice Band / Life Orb Azumarill is a possibility. So I will include Calculations for both.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 38-45 (12.5 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 75-88 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 240-284 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 34-41 (9.3 - 11.2%) -- possible 9HKO
156+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 94-111 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

So best options against Belly Drum Life Orb would be simply to Volt Switch / Pain Split, since Play Rough is Azumarill's real chance to get me out of the fight. That would lead me into volt switch and bring in Ferrothorn, who im sure can wall it pretty well with it's typing and threaten back with Power Whip, Set up Leech Seed or Spikes / Stealth Rock.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 252-297 (82.8 - 97.6%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 121-143 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 111-132 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 56-66 (18.4 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO

So it just hits a bit harder. However, the question is whether it is banded or not. I do know it runs assault vest, which case its Volt Switch or Bust. It would require me to predict up, rather than down for the Toxicroak to get a free hit and then set up a Swords Dance on the switch-out or Go for the STAB Poison Jab / Gunk Shot OHKO.

So the significant question, what realistic adjustments can be made.

I do have on deck to build or have on hand:

Bulky Talonflame to fire off Wil-O-Wisps and spam Acrobatics or set up Swords Dance. It does leave me electric weak and demands that Blastoise is more careful coming in to clear the hazard.

Klefki / Meowstic / Thunderus: Having Prankster to set up priority status could make a big difference. In terms of setting rain, it can go ahead of the others and let Dragonite Fire Off a Hurricane / Thunder to do some massive damage.

Metagross: A really good answer to Lopunny, though I am not sure how relevant Magnezone / Eviolite Magneton still is. It would appreciate the rain and in return can check some of the pokemon you listed as giving me a headache.

I do have an issue with Bronzong, since he has to get hit do anything, very pursuit weak and doesn't have sustainability the way Ferrothorn does.


One thing that does concern me, is Sylveon. Without Ferrothorn, I suspect it can blow some holes in my offense.

As for politoed, I used the VGC'15 variation. It does let me 2HKO a lot of things with Scald and take some good hits. Rather than run resto-chesto, having the sitrus berry lets me get in there and do some interesting things. I'll look into the speed investment though.


(momentary gaff= I slightly skewed it. I initially set my Rotom - W to 252 HP / 212/ SpAtk/ 46 Spe. In reality, I ended up using 240 HP/ 56 Def / 156 SpAtk / 56 SpDef. My damage calculations do not reflect that --as a I had done these calcs late night. I'll readjust the Rotom Wash Calculations to reflect that. )

 

[CanadianWifier]

Okay two things:

1. If you have Leech Seed in Ferrothorn, you need protect, I can't stress that enough. So consider Protect > Gyro Ball or Power Whip.

I don't normally post in the RMT subforum, much less the OU one, but this is not correct. It's helpful to carry Protect, yes, but certainly not mandatory.

Last generation the standard set was Hazard / Leech Seed / Power Whip / Gyro Ball; and from what I've seen this gen, it's very much the same. Hell, even the main set on the ORAS Strategydex is Hazard / Seed / Gyro Ball / Power Whip, with Protect being slashed second on the last moveslot.

Anyway yea, small nitpick, but that's totally incorrect :]

 

[DragonDemiGod]

I don't normally post in the RMT subforum, much less the OU one, but this is not correct. It's helpful to carry Protect, yes, but certainly not mandatory.

Last generation the standard set was Hazard / Leech Seed / Power Whip / Gyro Ball; and from what I've seen this gen, it's very much the same. Hell, even the main set on the ORAS Strategydex is Hazard / Seed / Gyro Ball / Power Whip, with Protect being slashed second on the last moveslot.

Anyway yea, small nitpick, but that's totally incorrect :]

Honestly, it wasn't a bad idea to run protect on it. having it allowed me to gain decent recovery along with leftovers to pull back into the match and get things popping. i do miss the extra fairy coverage, but walling them works justs as good.

 

[Aquarium1]

Sorry it took so long to reply I was busy with thing IRL. Anyway I don't feel weakness policy is the best option since you don't have dragon dance to boost your speed so your easily forced out. The main reason I recommend roost on dragonite is because dragonite is your only thing that can switch into charizard-y and wall it. If your worried about life orb recoil than you could try expert belt. Also smogon ou doesn't have an item clause so there nothing stopping you from having 2 life orb pokes. Sun team are don't exist in ou. The closest thing to a sun you will face is charizard-y and venusaur which dragonite can deal with so rain dance on rotom-w is unnecessary. Are so might wanna check some of you calc because there no way that a choice banded talonflame brave bird only doing around 9%. I think you had the talonflame at level 50 and the rotom-w at level 100 when you did your calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 105-124 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 82-97 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 153-180 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see your rotom-w can only switch into Banded talonflame once and if there SD talonflame once they weakened your rotom-w to about half they can easily sweep. You should at least have Pain spilt> Rain dance and leftover>Damp rock. No one uses life orb azumaril but choice banded and belly drum are possible threat. To be honest I think I over estimated how big a threat azumaril is to your team. You have Toxicrock which prevents belly drum azumaril from sweeping and you have ferrothorn which walls the crap out of it. The vgc politoed evs spread isn't relevant from in ou. Just go with the ou spread instead. Politoed also needs damp rock. Those 3 extra turns of rain are to important for you not to use.

 

[DragonDemiGod]

Sorry it took so long to reply I was busy with thing IRL. Anyway I don't feel weakness policy is the best option since you don't have dragon dance to boost your speed so your easily forced out. The main reason I recommend roost on dragonite is because dragonite is your only thing that can switch into charizard-y and wall it. If your worried about life orb recoil than you could try expert belt. Also smogon ou doesn't have an item clause so there nothing stopping you from having 2 life orb pokes. Sun team are don't exist in ou. The closest thing to a sun you will face is charizard-y and venusaur which dragonite can deal with so rain dance on rotom-w is unnecessary. Are so might wanna check some of you calc because there no way that a choice banded talonflame brave bird only doing around 9%. I think you had the talonflame at level 50 and the rotom-w at level 100 when you did your calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 105-124 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 82-97 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 56 Def Rotom-W: 153-180 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see your rotom-w can only switch into Banded talonflame once and if there SD talonflame once they weakened your rotom-w to about half they can easily sweep. You should at least have Pain spilt> Rain dance and leftover>Damp rock. No one uses life orb azumaril but choice banded and belly drum are possible threat. To be honest I think I over estimated how big a threat azumaril is to your team. You have Toxicrock which prevents belly drum azumaril from sweeping and you have ferrothorn which walls the crap out of it. The vgc politoed evs spread isn't relevant from in ou. Just go with the ou spread instead. Politoed also needs damp rock. Those 3 extra turns of rain are to important for you not to use.

I figured that was the case.

In any respect, this team just isn't for smogon. I am also planning for use in VGC, so even though it seems a little counterintuitive, I wanted to keep this as close to a VGC-Style as much as humanly possible.

Still, There are some other things I wanted to consider for this team:

I generally have a bit of an issue with Sylveon. My only real resource in dealing with it thus far is ferrothorn. Granted, I could adjust Toxicroak to hit with Poison Jab over Gunk Shot for Accuracy reasons, but that trade-off makes consider if that loss of power (since I am running Jolly, not adamant) a significant issue later down the line.
252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Poison Jab vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 218-260 (108.4 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I am not worried over speed, since I should outspeed most variants for the KO.

I am also considering if I want to shift out the rapid Spin Mega Blastoise for Mega Metagross and bring in mixed wall Mandibuzz for the Defog vs. Rapid Spin. I can relatively get the same coverage, but having added another fire weakness, Ghost, Ground and Rock is a bit hard to swallow.

I am also considering running my own sylveon on this set as a bulky special attacker, but I am not so sure if will pan out ( I have a modest Sylveon currently at lv. 2 that just needs it's EV. IVs are 31/X/31/31/31/31 with pixilate and Hyper Voice/Psyshock/X/X)

I do believe I also agreed that'd I drop the Rain Dance for Pain Split as far as Rotom-W is concerned to give me some sort sustain.

I'll probably begin testing Politoed with Helping Hand.