i just tested ice beam with LK it works fine for me.
I'm not totally sure if it's just you , more people have to test the team or set tbh
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Tiers GSC Little Cup [Stadium 2]
- Thread starter skies
- Start date
I'm not totally sure if it's just you , more people have to test the team or set tbh
The reason with not unbanning Gold Berry It's the fact that with the berry it makes a mon boderline broken. It can almost fully heal chansey humongous health , a mon with already extremely good bulk due to HP. Curse sets get even better now that it can live 1 hit and heal up to full without wasting a turn on Soft - Boiled. It will be hard to take down after 1 curse at near full hp and can curse again if anything.
Chansey's support set will just get a better recovery without wasting a turn. It doesn't make this set really broken but just better unlike the curse set.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
yeah and my point is give it time before you wildly claim anything is broken, there have been like 10 games of this meta in the past 2 months and we're already saying an item is beyond any reconciliation
froggy25 what resource are you citing on the smoochum lovely kiss? pokemon online also says it's legal.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Smoochum_(Pokémon)/Generation_II_learnset
bulbapedia doesn't list the father necessary to breed lovely kiss but does note that it's possible to learn. also notes that it's only a result of "chain breeding" (idk what this term means in gen 2) and that it's only available in versions Gold and Silver, so maybe illegal in Crystal somehow? and does that make it illegal?
froggy25 what resource are you citing on the smoochum lovely kiss? pokemon online also says it's legal.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Smoochum_(Pokémon)/Generation_II_learnset
bulbapedia doesn't list the father necessary to breed lovely kiss but does note that it's possible to learn. also notes that it's only a result of "chain breeding" (idk what this term means in gen 2) and that it's only available in versions Gold and Silver, so maybe illegal in Crystal somehow? and does that make it illegal?
On the Lovely Kiss page there's an asterisk noting it's impossible to get.
- Moves marked with an asterisk (*) must be chain bred onto Smoochum in Generation II
It's illegal because you can't get it without hacking a male with Lovely Kiss from the Human-Like group to breed with Jynx. It's also fixed next update!
https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/blob/master/data/egg_moves.asm
pokecrystal disassembly should be the only source used as a reference. Bulbapedia doesn't have accurate data regarding old gen games.
Last edited:
Took a while to bring the tier this but it's finally here.
Couldn't have done it without the help of unfixable and Typhlito who helped me with some of the viability rankings.
Speeds are next to the mons. (courtesy of me)
The Viability Rankings
Houndour (16)
Basically the snorlax of LC.
Chansey (14)
Diglett (19)
Elekid (19)
Abra (18)
Chinchou (16)
Cubone (13)
Exeggcute (13)
Gastly (17)
Machop (13)
Magby (18)
Pineco (11)
Porygon (13)
Staryu (18)
Bellsprout (13)
Doduo (17)
Drowzee (13)
Omanyte (13)
Onix (16)
Poliwag (18)
Ponyta (18)
Remoraid (16)
Tentacool (16)
Voltorb (19)
Charmander (13)
Cyndaquil (13)
Dratini (14)
Ekans (15)
Geodude (11)
Grimer (12)
Growlithe (15)
Horsea (15)
Koffing (13)
Krabby (14)
Larvitar (13)
Magnemite (14)
Mankey (16)
Meowth (18)
Natu (16)
Nidoran-F (13)
Nidoran-M (14)
Oddish (12)
Paras (12)
Phanpy (13)
Psyduck (15)
Ryhorn (12)
Sandshrew (13)
Shellder (11)
Slowpoke (11)
Smoochum (16)
Snubbull (12)
Spearow (16)
Spinarak (12)
Teddiursa (13)
Togepi (11)
Cleffa (11)
Eevee (15)
Hoppip (14)
Pichu (15)
Pidgey (15)
Rattata (16)
Squirtle (14)
Venonat (14)
Caterpie (14)
Goldeen (16)
Hoothoot (14)
Igglybuff (11)
Kabuto (15)
Magikarp (17)
Mareep (13)
Marill (13)
Sentret (11)
Slugma (11)
Sunkern (12)
Swinub (14)
Weedle (14)
Zubat (15)
Edit : we'll probs get a separate thread and make it look way better . I just pulled this out quickly in ~4 hours
Couldn't have done it without the help of unfixable and Typhlito who helped me with some of the viability rankings.
Speeds are next to the mons. (courtesy of me)
The Viability Rankings
Basically the snorlax of LC.
Edit : we'll probs get a separate thread and make it look way better . I just pulled this out quickly in ~4 hours
Last edited:
Just something quick I agree with a good amount of the rankings here, the one I don'the agree with is tentacool, it is a good fallback check to houndoom and pretty much a good amount of waters and fires while Abra may flat out kill it, I feel it deserves of be higher due to access to spin , decent speed, and checking the top threat of the tier. Also not to mention it can run a SD set, meaning that it not only has good bulk but it also has relevant offensive prowess as well. I believe it at least deserves B.Took a while to bring the tier this but it's finally here.
Couldn't have done it without the help of unfixable and Typhlito who helped me with some of the viability rankings.
Speeds are next to the mons. (courtesy of me)
The Viability Rankings
Houndour (16)
Basically the snorlax of LC.
Chansey (14)
Diglett (19)
Elekid (19)
Abra (18)
Chinchou (16)
Cubone (13)
Exeggcute (13)
Gastly (17)
Machop (13)
Pineco (11)
Porygon (13)
Staryu (18)
Bellsprout (13)
Doduo (17)
Drowzee (13)
Magby (18)
Omanyte (13)
Onix (16)
Poliwag (18)
Ponyta (18)
Remoraid (16)
Voltorb (19)
Charmander (13)
Cyndaquil (13)
Dratini (14)
Ekans (15)
Geodude (11)
Grimer (12)
Growlithe (15)
Horsea (15)
Koffing (13)
Krabby (14)
Larvitar (13)
Magnemite (14)
Mankey (16)
Meowth (18)
Natu (16)
Nidoran-F (13)
Nidoran-M (14)
Oddish (12)
Paras (12)
Phanpy (13)
Psyduck (15)
Ryhorn (12)
Sandshrew (13)
Shellder (11)
Slowpoke (11)
Smoochum (16)
Snubbull (12)
Spearow (16)
Spinarak (12)
Teddiursa (13)
Tentacool (16)
Togepi (11)
Cleffa (11)
Eevee (15)
Hoppip (14)
Pichu (15)
Pidgey (15)
Rattata (16)
Squirtle (14)
Venonat (14)
Caterpie (14)
Goldeen (16)
Hoothoot (14)
Igglybuff (11)
Kabuto (15)
Magikarp (17)
Mareep (13)
Marill (13)
Sentret (11)
Slugma (11)
Sunkern (12)
Swinub (14)
Weedle (14)
Zubat (15)
Edit : we'll probs get a separate thread and make it look way better . I just pulled this out quickly in ~4 hours
It does multiple things. it has little to no switches using the Sunny Day Solar Beam set. Also, it's a really good pursuit trapper.
Ps: You can find me in the Old gens room.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Ok so just had a game and I can confidently say that Chansey should literally move up to S+. It centralizes the meta just like Lax in OU.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-250043783
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-250043783
One battle is not enough to know if a Pokemon should change ranks. Houndoom is S+ because it's most definitely the best, Chansey has a few flaws such as being overwhelmed (2HKOed by Houndour) and being defeated by the two other S Ranks are both able to defeat it quite simply. It's a threat you prepare for, but it is not S+ in my eyes. Tagging Typhlito for input.
Something to note. It will not 2hko unless you are under the sun so essentially it is a 2hko for 3 turns. This is not counting fire blast miss rates, and other random variables. You also need too high roles so not the most reliable way to kill Chaney but still decent. Also to all of you looking to check houndour, for defensive checks you got Chansey and tentacruel. Tentacruel is the best Chansey is a close second. Offensive checks can include anywhere from something with stab fighting water or ground or rock to your own houndoom. In general your best thing against it is diglett offensive water or your own houndour.
I wanna suggest that tentacruel moves up to a if staryu is in a I believe it belong in a too as well. I mean if you look at it they have the only ways of checking spikes. Staryu checks dour from the offensive side of the spectrum and tentacruel from the defensive side so overall cruel should move up as it is the best doom check imo. One more thing to spark up discussion a potential move down exeggcute to b it is killed by a lot of things rather easily houndoom, magby, hp bug machop, porygon with ice beam.
Tentacool is a very interesting Mon. It has great speed and sp def. It has access to rare moves like mirror coat, haze, barrier and rapid spin. It's poison typing is not that big of an issue with hound keeping most psychics in check. I think it should move up a few spots to more of a B/B+ range. Wouldn't put it higher than that due to its lack of recovery outside of rest which is kind of a problem since everything hits so hard.
Last edited:
Okay so to revive this thread I guess I can offer up some new questions. Is houndour required on every gsc lc team? I have had some decent success with some teams without it provided we have not exactly had tourney play yet in this tier. All I know is that every team should have a couple of things, two houndoom checks at least the best is still tentacruel imo and funny thing is that houndour checks itself in some ways. Meaning that if it is required you got one right there. Essentially have at least two ways to deal with s-s+
I don't think houndoom is required on every team but it's a really good mon in general. S-S+ checks aren't that bad on teams since all the ranks below that are really stable. I haven't got to play in a while and could try to get some tours in the old gens room.
There are a few Houndour checks in the tier. Some being
Chansey, Diglett, other Houndour, Tentacool, Magby, Porygon, Staryu, Poliwag.
Why do we even think Houndour is broken? I would've assumed Little Cup is all about abusing speed, and Houndour just isn't quite fast enough to outspeed any of the fast stuff, and not good enough defensively to take many (if any) hits from them.
Stuff like Elekid, Abra, Staryu, Gastly, Diglett seem better, although I guess Abra gets worse if everyone is using Houndour. And Chansey with Curse, Body Slam, Softboiled, Ice Beam is probably the best Pokemon.
I also don't think Porygon is much of anything because it is slow and can't do Agility to my knowledge. Maybe it can win 1 on 1's quite often but special it does not seem.
I just don't get how people even begin to think that something so poor defensively with relatively bad speed is anything close to broken.
Last edited:
A forgotten Pokemon.
Doduo@Gold Berry
Drill Peck
Double-Edge
Quick Attack
Substitute
Substitute is there to abuse Thunder Wave support and Berry Juice, but can also be used to block status. If you are deadly afraid of resisters, you can always carry Hidden Power Grass or Ground, but I think a developed metagame would discourage the use of Onix and Magnemite. The main draw of Doduo is its access to STAB Quick Attack which allows it to do impressive stuff outside of revenge killing like defeat Abra 1 on 1 with full HP if you know Abra doesn't have a berry left. It has just enough defensive ability to survive a STAB attack from almost anything (it can survive Houndour's Fire Blast, and even Abra's Ice Punch).
Doduo@Gold Berry
Drill Peck
Double-Edge
Quick Attack
Substitute
Substitute is there to abuse Thunder Wave support and Berry Juice, but can also be used to block status. If you are deadly afraid of resisters, you can always carry Hidden Power Grass or Ground, but I think a developed metagame would discourage the use of Onix and Magnemite. The main draw of Doduo is its access to STAB Quick Attack which allows it to do impressive stuff outside of revenge killing like defeat Abra 1 on 1 with full HP if you know Abra doesn't have a berry left. It has just enough defensive ability to survive a STAB attack from almost anything (it can survive Houndour's Fire Blast, and even Abra's Ice Punch).