Gen 3 ADV NU - Dos Team Exposé

[Oglemi]

Introduction:

Welcome again to the wonderful world of Oglemi RMTs. This time let's explore another one of my favorite tiers, ADV NU.

Some history on the tier: It was never played, or never played very seriously, during the ADV era nor anytime after, it was mostly just a designation of the worst of the worst with the increased number of mons post-GSC. Years passed and Project NU picked it up a bit but never did a whole lot with it; however, they did play with NFEs and they discussed the tier quite a bit. PO then did a bit more with it, but they banned all NFEs for some reason, but they also banned Girafarig (a good move). Last year I picked up the tier because a tourney wanted to use the tier, and they followed PO rules. After I ran my own tourney with no NFEs, I thought it was dumb they were banned, so I declared they were not and also later unbanned some other mons I felt would be very balanced and also unused in UU. Hence, the current tier we have now.

Currently, the tier is pretty well balanced. There's a few threats which may or may not be broken, most notably Huntail, Hitmonchan, and Sableye, but I don't know that any has a good enough case currently to warrant the boot. Beyond that, the tier is marked by some neat quirks, mostly due to its shallow choices for type diversity, but also the depth that the Pokemon that are available provide. Hitmonchan most exemplifies this as being basically the only viable Fighting-type in the tier, but also probably the most diverse with at least 6 unique sets of high viability.

Anyway, below are a couple teams that I've been using in tournaments lately that have put up some good performances in tournaments or that I think show some innovation worth sharing.

Teams:

Spiky Sunlight

This is probably my most successful team, going undefeated in the most recent mini-tour, going 4-1 in my Corsola Cup run, and putting up a good showing vs Django in the latest NUPL coming right down to the wire in the end.

This team features a lot of the top standard features of the NU tier, with the main goal to sweep with Bellossom in the end-game, which works better than Huntail for this team due to the use of Relicanth already on the team (it's a very bad idea to stack an Electric weakness in this tier). Most of the sets are extremely simple and standard, but with some creativity in the usage of Chimecho and the defensive core I chose.

Glalie (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Explosion

The most standard and common lead in the metagame. I chose to run Glalie with this team because it's the most reliable way to get Spikes up early, which this team uses very well with its ability to pivot between the defensive core, and Hitmonchan and Bellossom both like Spikes to weaken their typical counters (Sableye for the former and Fire- and Poison-types for the latter, all of which are grounded). The spread is the bulky version so that it can tank a non-STAB super effective attack and allow at least 2 layers of Spikes. Against other Glalie leads I will always Taunt first to try and win the Speed tie and prevent them from getting a layer of Spikes. Naive is needed to not weaken either of Ice Beam or Explosion.

I will almost never save Glalie for later in the match, the sole exceptions being against Magby, which wins immediately, and enemy Relicanth, as neither Ice Beam nor Explosion does anything substantial to it; however, I may decide to just stack as many Spikes as I can to scout whether it's a defensive or offensive Relicanth.

Relicanth @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Fully physically defensive Relicanth is the absolute pinnacle of physical defense in the NU tier. The only other Pokemon that could possibly match it is Lairon, who sports a much worse typing overall if the goal is to wall physical attackers. Thanks to Relicanth, the birds (Pidgeot and Murkrow) are absolutely zero threat, Flail Vigoroth and Kingler have no hope of sweeping, and Pokemon like Raticate are stopped cold. RestTalk only prolongs Relicanth's ability to stick around and just wall the shit out of Pokemon, and because of that fact Toxic is chosen in the second slot. If it comes down to it, Relicanth will simply be able to outstall most other non-RestTalk Pokemon in the tier. Rock Slide gives STAB and allows Relicanth to beat back some Pokemon that would otherwise be ballsy enough to switch in, like Haunter or Plusle.

Relicanth's typing also pairs almost perfectly with specially defensive Kecleon, with the major weaknesses to Grass and Electric easily covered and played around.

Kecleon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Color Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind

When paired with Relicanth, there are very few Pokemon that could hope to break past this defensive core. Specially defensive Kecleon is able to wall nearly any special attacker in the tier, and the only one it can't wall fully, Huntail, is easily stalled out with Toxic and the rest of the team. The moveset itself is designed to best support the rest of the team. Its main form of damage will be Toxic and simply forcing Pokemon out, hence the importance of Spikes to the team.

Body Slam is the most reliable way to spread damage, and is chosen over Return since Kecleon will rarely be getting STAB and due to this, the chance to paralyze is much more important than the little extra damage Return provides. Shadow Ball gives Kecleon coverage against Haunter, and does a bit more damage against enemy Chimecho.

The final slot I gave to Icy Wind, which I chose over Thunder Wave as a way to give Kecleon the ability to fend off Pupitar if it comes to it, as well as a way to slow down enemy Bellossom/Tangela for my own Bellossom to take advantage of. Icy Wind is also a nice way to screw over Mawile looking to use Kecleon as setup fodder and messing up its BP strategy.

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Protect
- Toxic
- Reflect

Chimecho is probably the most highly variable Pokemon in the NU tier, with the ability to mix and match its movesets to suit any purpose or need. And as the only Psychic-type in the tier (apart from Abra) it is a common fixture on nearly every top tier team. Chimecho completes the defensive core between Kecleon and Relicanth, providing the very much needed resistance to Fighting, as well as a bonus immunity to Ground. This Chimecho is a kind of a catch-all for the team, providing the defensive support to stop enemy Hitmonchan from sweeping, the ability to help stall out Huntail from sweeping the team completely with Toxic/Protect, and the ability to support Bellossom into sweeping with Reflect.

The EV spread is chosen to give Chimecho the best overall bulk with enough oomph to be threatening and make use of the Spikes Glalie sets down for the team, helping it deck out Hitmonchan, Swalot, and Arbok among other threats. Max HP for example allows Chimecho to tank a Hydro Pump from Huntail in the rain and hit it with Toxic, Protect the next turn, then switch out and when it comes back in again to Protect again and tank another Hydro Pump, all the while running down the rain timer and building up Toxic damage (though this is mostly a last-ditch strategy but a good back-up one). Toxic is also the best weapon Chimecho has for Sableye and Flareon, which are common switch-ins to it.

Hitmonchan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Mach Punch
- Earthquake

Hitmonchan is probably the most splashable offensive Pokemon in the NU tier, and a top tier threat that every team needs to be prepared for (and should probably use). It's about the only Fighting-type available (Machoke is there but not used), and it crushes and checks so many Pokemon it's almost invaluable on balanced Spikes teams like this.

Choice Band is the easiest way to just play with Hitmonchan and have it be good, and on this team it provides a good safety net against other late-game sweepers should Relicanth go down, such as Raticate, Vigoroth, Flail/Reversals, and stuff like Mawile. Hitmonchan also serves as a wallbreaker for Bellossom, destroying special walls like Lickitung, Kecleon, Swalot, and Flareon, as well as crippling others like Chimecho with HP Ghost.

Bellossom (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While Bellossom is probably a worse overall late-game sweeper than Huntail, I feel it fits better on this team by providing better type synergy than Huntail would and the ability to completely incapacitate a foe mid-game if needed with Sleep Powder. Bellossom also has the ability to countersweep Huntail, an ability Huntail lacks itself against Bellossom. Also, its major threats in the birds, Fire-types, and Poison-types are completely handled by the rest of the team, particularly Relicanth and Chimecho, opening the way for it to sweep successfully.

A full offensive spread gives Bellossom the best possible chance of beating other Bellossom, and gives it a bit more oomph to hopefully push Arbok and Haunter and other such threats into KO position with HP Fire or Solar Beam. Aside from that there's not much more to say with Bellossom. Basically the ideal situation is that Chimecho sets up Reflect, Bellossom gets in against something like Mawile, Bellossom puts the opponent to sleep, sets up Sunny Day, clicks Solar Beam to win. Hopefully by this point in the match Solar Beam should just rip through everything on the opponent's team no problem.

Importable

Glalie (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
- Explosion

Hitmonchan (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Mach Punch
- Rock Slide

Relicanth @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Kecleon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Color Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind

Chimecho @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Protect
- Toxic
- Reflect

Bellossom (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Flailing Monkey

I found Vigoroth to be a rather unexplored Pokemon when I created this team, and I still think it rather is. It's extremely threatening on paper, and is highly variable in the number of different sets it can run effectively in the tier. This team was an attempt to make best use of its access to STAB Flail, and with no Sandstorm in the tier, the strategy is pretty reliable with few Pokemon able to effectively tank and eliminate Vigoroth late in the game.

The rest of the team is designed to try and give Vigoroth the best possible chance of sweeping late-game, with each member attempting and having the ability to remove the Pokemon most able to take on Vigoroth late in the game. This team features mostly standard Pokemon in the tier, but with mostly uncommon sets and strategies designed to be lures for the threats that would take on Vigoroth. It is also extremely offensive compared to most of the tier which is usually balanced offense or stall. The goal is to hit hard and die young, murdering everything in the way while giving the opponent little time to counteract what you’re doing. It’s also unique in that as an offensive team it lacks a weather sweeper of any kind.

Seadra @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Endure

Seadra makes an excellent anti-lead in the metagame as it can easily limit Glalie to 1 layer of Spikes and resists Ice Beam, and Seadra also outspeeds all of the typical Fire- and Rock-type anti-leads and destroys them with Hydro Pump. It also has a fairly good match-up with Hitmonchan, as it can threaten poison from Poison Point and Hydro Pump will leave a huge dent in it.

Seadra also sets the pace super early for me, immediately ripping holes in the opponent with a strong STAB Water move and great coverage. It’s essentially Huntail without the need to set up rain first, and at +1 Hydro Pump is KOing a ton of frailer mons and even stuff like Sableye, and severely denting even mons like Kecleon and Lickitung.

Murkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drill Peck
- Double-Edge
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Murkrow fills the role of eliminating any pesky Grass-types that are likely to switch into Seadra and usually immediately lures out the opponent’s Steel- or Rock-type, which allows me to plan ahead for how to sweep with Vigoroth. I avoid risking Murkrow to Chimecho as most people are prepared for the Murkrow switch-in, and Chimecho isn’t all that threatening to a Vigoroth sweep.

The major thing here is Hidden Power Grass, which shreds Relicanth and Graveler apart, which are otherwise huge roadblocks to a Vigoroth sweep. Not having Hidden Power Ground leaves Murkrow very exposed to Mawile, but the rest of my team can handle Mawile pretty easily.

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Baton Pass
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Specially offensive Flareon is a rare sight as most people will opt for either the physically offensive set or the specially defensive set. However, Flareon makes very good use of a specially offensive Fire-type, and this set allows it to lure out bulky Water-types and Rock-types and try to eliminate them with Hidden Power Grass. Baton Pass makes scouting easier and can make switching in the frailer members of the team, Seadra and Murkrow, much easier.

Overheat is an absolute nuke and will almost always catch the opponent offguard, particularly if they switch in Chimecho expecting to absorb a Toxic from the defensive set or something. This Flareon also masquerades as the defensive set pretty well thanks to this team including Dewgong and bulky Hitmonchan, which can give the first impression that this is another standard balanced offense team.

Flareon’s special bulk also comes into play by absorbing hits from Plusle and Haunter, and Flareon generally makes a decent switch into Mawile and Grass-types. The point of tanking Plusle's attacks should not be understated considering this team has no resistances to Electric and 3 weaknesses. If you suspect in any way that your opp has an Electric attacker, at all costs keep Flareon alive, as none of the Pokemon on this team outspeed it (except for Vigo at +1) or Haunter either.

Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The defensive backbone to the team and its only safeguard against an opponent’s Huntail sweep. That’s pretty much the only role that Dewgong has, and I will usually keep Dewgong hidden if I suspect the opponent is gunning for a Huntail sweep early in the match. Huntail is that threatening to this team otherwise. Dewgong also makes a good catch-all check to a lot of Pokemon in the tier, and is very very hard for defensive teams to counteract thanks to RestTalk + Toxic.

Dewgong will also usually do a good job of luring out Hitmonchan, but it lacks a decent way to combat it outside of hitting it with Toxic. However, just knowing the opponent has a Hitmonchan gives me a good idea of what I need to do before I bring out Vigoroth.

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Toxic

Bulky spin Hitmonchan ensures that if I bring out Vigoroth at the wrong time I can still make sure that it’ll be able to get back in without any Spikes on my side of the field. That’s this Hitmonchan’s main role is to ensure that Vigoroth has the best chance of sweeping, and Hitmonchan almost without fail will lure in Sableye, Haunter, or Chimecho which are dealt with rather well with this set. Toxic will cripple Sableye and Hidden Power Ghost removes Haunter from the equation and dents Chimecho.

Hitmonchan is also just that valuable of a mon in this tier that the team is simply better with it than without. The EVs make sure that Hitmonchan still outspeeds Modest Huntail outside of rain, max Attack to retain power, and the rest in HP which thanks to chan’s low HP stat, actually makes a huge difference in his ability to tank certain attacks, like Mawile’s Focus Punch.

Vigoroth @ Salac Berry
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Earthquake
- Flail
- Shadow Ball

The star of the show, and an intensely good sweeper if all works out. STAB Flail is hilariously powerful, but it sadly lacks kill power on some things like Lickitung (only like 5% chance to OHKO just 252 HP versions), which is where running Reversal on this set over Equake is definitely doable. However, Earthquake and Shadow Ball are needed for reliability and ensure that a couple things don’t just prematurely end the sweep. Earthquake in particular is Vigoroth’s best tool against Sableye, and is its best move if not in Flail-range aside from another STAB move like Return.

Using Substitute to activate Salac Berry is definitely doable and can cause some switching by the opponent expecting SubBU or SubPunch; however, that’ll lead to Vigoroth revealing that it doesn’t have a STAB move and will alert the opponent that your goal is to Flail sweep. Vigoroth is typically able to use Endure to good effect just because most players will avoid trying to status it due to fear of Substitute, Bulk Up, or Encore. At +1 Speed nothing in the tier will outspeed Vigoroth except for Timid Bellossom and Tangela in the sun and some Agility mons.

This Vigoroth set is hard to use, but the payoff is huge, especially if the lures before it did their job and opened up the sweep for it.

Importable

Seadra @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Endure

Murkrow @ Choice Band
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Drill Peck
- Double-Edge
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Flareon @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Baton Pass
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Dewgong @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hitmonchan (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sky Uppercut
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Toxic

Vigoroth @ Salac Berry
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Earthquake
- Flail
- Shadow Ball

Conclusion:

I would add more teams but I'm not completely satisfied with any others at this point and I'm pretty lazy. However, I may add some more to this RMT at a later time, especially if we end up banning Huntail or Sableye. I'm also way too lazy to do threatlists this time around, but I find them to be largely pointless for ADV tiers just because it usually ultimately comes down to how you play over what you actively cover and don't. Anyway, there you go, hope you enjoyed another edition of Oglemi's RMTs.

 

[Disaster Area]

Although you got a couple of minor things incorrect in the commentary (forgetting Metang is Psychic for example), but let's have a look at the teams! The Kecleon set is interesting - personally I always preferred Flamethrower on Kecleon to avoid Mawile setting up on you, since Icy Wind won't break the substitutes (and you generally 2HKO), and you might as well not worry so much about Pupitar since Relicanth is set-up bait for it also. If I were you I'd change Bellossom -> Tangela - the extra physical bulk fits the theme, and gives you a better pupitar check, whilst still being able to run a SunnyBeamer as a late-game sweeper. Also I would Change Body Slam->Protect on Kecleon, Body Slam and Toxic are counterproductive together, and you'd much rather just hit specific targets that you need to not set up on you/you need to beat [chime, haunter, mawile] and in the meantime you'd rather spread Toxic onto switch-ins - you're already prepared for the Toxic-Immune Pokemon by carrying flamethrower. Protect is what i would run over it, as the extra recovery is invaluable, as well as extra Toxic damage and stalling out rain turns, as Chimecho does too. Nothing is really particularly set-up bait for huntail, at the worst being able to poison it (sleeping relicanth sounds like your worst case scenario). Whilst Tangela>Bellossom makes you more Electric weak, Plusle does appalling damage (Plusle Thunderbolt vs. Kecleon: 74-88 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery) whilst you can 3HKO with Shadow Ball - Kecleon Shadow Ball vs. Plusle: 107-127 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, and even consistently break 252/0 Minun's Substitutes - Kecleon Shadow Ball vs. Minun: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%). AgiliPass is not really an issue for the team as most threats are beaten by Toxic-stalling rather than outspeed-and-KOing, so that puts you in good stead. At this point, the only real problem I see remaining is SubHP Grass offensive Pelipper - beats up Relicanth, its subs are only 2HKOd by Kec (which can't realistically invest to change this) - even with 4/0 EVs. As a consequence, I'd run Rock Slide on CB Hitmonchan to hit it - although it has issues giving up the moveslot, Mach Punch is probably the most expendable, as it acts more as a crutch giving you some breathing room versus a lot of styles, but not nessecarily needed to beat anything. You already have physically defensive relicanth to take on Endure users in general, as well as a generally bulky focussed team, so I think you can most easily give it up.

tl;dr: team 1: Bellossom->Tangela, Kecleon Body Slam+Icy Wind->Protect+Flamethrower, Hitmonchan Mach Punch->Rock Slide.

Nice Team c: now for team 2!

Overall the concept is neat - Seadra is a really cool lead, and there's some nice variations in sets here. My only problem is Dewgong - it doesn't fit this team at all, and there's much more offensive Huntail checks. Kecleon allows it to not sweep twice, using a thunder wave support set, but it's a free switch for a lot of mons, not all that could consequently be handled, like chan. However, I think my choice would most likely be either one of Bellossom or Roselia. Roselia resists Sky Uppercut, and with 64 Defense EVs alongside max HP and the rest into special defense, can avoid the OHKO from any attack of hitmonchan's, as well as act as a switch-in to Huntail. Also, it adds spikes utility to your team if you want it. Bellossom on the other hand is a much more consistent Huntail answer, whilst not being OHKO'd by any attack from CB hitmonchan, making it a non-issue 1v1. You could either run Sun/Synth/Beam/HP Fire or maybe something like Giga Drain/HP Fire/Leech Seed/Protect, both of which I have run before. The spread is accessible in my comment on the bellossom analysis :q you only lose to it if you get frozen + don't thaw in your two opportunities to - aka good odds. Both are quite good offensively - the former is better as a pure huntail counter, the other is better as a general disruptor forcing switches too. Otherwise, the team is very nice!

tl;dr: Dewgong->Bellossom (or Roselia)

edit: actually a little more thought suggests that it would make your team quite bird weak. If you think though that the passiveness of dewgong isn't too bad, it's probably the best choice in that regard. However Bell can be EV'd to outspeed base 91s (or above!) under sun and still hit pretty hard (Bellossom Hidden Power Fire vs. Murkrow in Sun: 145-171 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) but there's alas a 75% chance to be OHKO'd (you can move the EVs from SpA to Def and it becomes 25%! - and you still 2HKO) [potential alternate spread: 252 HP / 112 Def / 64 SpD / 80 Spe - Huntail Ice Beam vs. Bellossom: 156-184 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, Huntail Ice Beam vs. Bellossom: 156-184 (44 - 51.9%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery, Choice Band Murkrow Drill Peck vs. Bellossom: 297-350 (83.8 - 98.8%) - guaranteed 2HKO, although Choice Band Murkrow Drill Peck vs. Bellossom: 297-350 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes)

 

[ThriceElite]

Team 1... is out-and-out 6-0'd by Sableye stall. On that team, you rely heavily on Toxicing the opponent and then waiting for them to die, but guess what? Sableye stall Toxics you right back, and they probably have Wish Flareon and a beller. You do not. Even though Team 1 is a defensively-leaning team, you don't have ANY recovery on your mons except Relicanth, no Wish, no beller.

Team 1 also lacks the offensive presence to break said Sableye stall. Half your team (Relicanth, Kecleon, Chime) are walls, after all. They probably have Protect up the ass to keep CBchan in check, and Bellossom isn't getting past Wish Flareon. Sleep is horrible against Sableye stall, both because they have a beller and because your mons don't hit hard enough to capitalize on the sleep turns, as they're sturdy enough to just stall for time to just wake up again.

Your best bet against Sableye stall currently is Glalie, and good luck because you'll need all the hax in the world to win. Keeping up Spikes without a Sableye of your own is going to be a hell of a task, and since you admit that you ditch Glalie early in the match, if the Sableye stall player just slaps RestTalk Torkoal or Charmeleon or something in the lead (over Lileep), you Spike, and then Glalie dies, then WHOOPS, turns out the other five mons are Sableye stall, then you should just forfeit to avoid the inevitable 100+ turn 6-0.

If you now ask, hey, ThriceElite, how do I fix said team to make it better against Sableye stall, I'll answer: I don't know. You'd have to probably make drastic changes or something, either going full offense to try and break said Sableye stall (good luck, you'll need it) or full defense to try and "win" the inevitable triple-digit turn stall war that results. Even I'm having a hell of a time to try and figure out a way to consistently shit on Sableye stall, which is probably an indicator that Sableye is stupidly centralizing, invalidates otherwise competent teams like the one above, and needs the boot. I'm not making any suggestions on how to help your team against Sableye stall because I honestly don't know how to salvage it.

EDIT: Well okay, they can just 5-0 you if you manage to boom Glalie on one of their non-Sableye mons. But remember that this meta has anti-Glalie leads up the ass, and you're still really REALLY damn weak to Sableye stall.

EDIT again: If I must suggest a change, I guess just slap Huntail over one of your mons on Team 1. It's your best bet against Sableye stall, even though it's still questionable due to them having Dewgong.

 

[Oglemi]

If you're talking weavile's team of mawile/sableye/chan/dewgong/flareon/rose then ya my first team has some trouble with it but saying it's outright 6-0'd is a bit of an exaggeration because that kind of team lacks any solid answer to cb chan outside of sableye itself and just straight loses to bellossom if they mispredict around one of my mons and lose flareon.

An easy fix to more easily break that particular team/team style if you're scared of it would be to swap out chime for something like sd kingler or sd tropius which can still effectively check chan and shreds that particular team to pieces, or even replacing it with diglett or cm abra as diglett would also be able to help the team by eliminating the poisons that can grieve bellossom a bit if i can't get rid of them.

 

[Disaster Area]

Much as I uhh helped oshony a tiny bit with his CM Abra team (he threw it together quick then got some advice from me) vermillion project only lost the match cos they misplayed around abra lol. [abra's frail just hit it with a fucking shadow ball or something lmao. If ur switching flareon into it u better have roar or a physical attack xD]

Anyway I think spikes+CB chan+competent teammates is enough to give you a decent chance of winning the match-up, but getting spikes down versus Sab teams (not nessecarily stall but p much anything with a physically defensive variant) and pressuring with toxic and aggressive switching gives you the capacity to win the matchup - I'd just say trying to get as much information from the lead matchup as possible (e.g. if it's a possibly defensive lead - chan, mawile, relicanth - then switch out into a safe switch-in, try and judge by the damage what sort of pokemon it is and work out how important spikes are gonna be that game) and be aware that some games you're gonna have to be careful with the spikes war. Versus more aggressive anti-leads, go for the spikes though imo.

any response to my comments? :)

 

[Oglemi]

I wouldn't change Bellossom to Tangela because the main advantage of using Bellossom, countering/countersweeping Huntail, is then lost. I also have Reflect on Chimecho and use it to create setup situations as it is, which I could switch out for Light Screen if using Tangela but I find the overall bulk to using Bellossom superior in more cases.

Flamethrower is probably worth using over Icy Wind on Kecleon, but Icy Wind's utility stretches beyond just slowing down stuff like Pupitar, but also dangerous mons like the birds and Raticate. Body Slam + Toxic isn't overtly counterproductive either, because the main target that I wouldn't want paralyzed over Toxic'd, Sableye, is immune to Body Slam. Body Slam is a decent move to just throw out and deal chip damage while making Kecleon a tougher switch-in than it otherwise would be. Replacing that slot with something benign like Protect wouldn't help me as much as Body Slam would in the long run. As for Chan, Vigoroth and co. are far more threatening to my team as a whole than something like Pelipper, so I really wouldn't want to give up a safety net like Mach Punch for Rock Slide either.

On the second team, defensive sun Bellossom over Dewgong is probably an ok suggestion as it helps a lot with giving me an Electric answer while retaining a Huntail counter, but I don't like how intensely bird-weak I become with the switch, which is a far larger problem as it forces me to try and game with Vigoroth early, which doesn't usually end well. I don't think Dewgong sacrifices that much momentum either, especially when you consider momentum in ADV on the whole swings far differently than in it does in other gens. With Dewgong I can pressure the opp into saccing their birds or risking a wall getting Toxic'd, or double switch into Murkrow again to body something. It provides a valuable pivot answer to a lot of Pokemon in the tier, the biggest reward to using it being I have a 100% solid answer to Huntail assuming I don't let too many Spikes get up or let Dewgong take too much damage from something like Flareon.