Ladder Mix and Mega

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Physical tanks would rather the recovery to begin with, and considering hippowdon still does similar damage as rypherior, I would agree in the notion that hippowdon generally outclasses rypherior with red orb. Also, remember that Hippowdon has phasing, as does pdon, which is good for a bulky tank.

Most bulky tank roles in standard run recovery. Porygon2, for example, runs recovery. The best ones generally are enhanced by having a recovery move, being able to abuse their massive bulk to switch-in multiple times to threats.

Which is why I wish there was a mega stone w/ regenerator... Too bad M-ampharos only got it in theorymons- regen cores are fun.

Edit: Throbulator36, just so you know, I just ran some calcs, rhyperior takes 51.6-60% from adamant Pdon, and hippo takes 75-89%. So, yes it's significantly bulkier, but they're both 2hkoed anyways. That's basically the most powerful physical SE attack in the meta, barring maybe lucarionite garchomp. And again, slack off really makes it FAR superior. Plus, if you can toxic it first, you can toxic+sand tomb stall it to death like its nothing

 

[frogstomperful]

As an alternative to Red Orb, Rhyperior could also take Pinsirite. Ground/Flying hits damn near everything at least neutrally -- it really just misses on Steel/Flying, Rock/Flying, Electric/Flying, and combinations of the three first types with Levitate. Rock/Electric is not a combo that has ever appeared, so the big miss would be something like a Latiosite or Latiasite Magnezone.

Rhyperior @ Pinsirite:
Typing: Ground/Rock -> Ground/Flying (six weaknesses to two!)
Ability: Solid Rock -> Aerilate
Stats become: 115/170/150/65/75/60
IVs, EVs, Nature: 31's, probably 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 somewhere, Adamant or SDef+

1) Earthquake
2) Return (Aerilate'd)
3) Facade (Aerilate'd and ignores burn Atk drop)
4) Swords Dance / Protect / Roar / Dragon Tail / ...

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

0 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 72-85 (21.1 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

0 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rhyperior: 76-90 (20.4 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

So... Primal Groudon is in fact more physically defensive.

._.

While I agree with the final verdict that Red Orb Rhyperior is generally outclassed (in fact p much all the time lel) I fail to see how you reached this conclusion. Last time I checked, bulk is measured by taking less damage, and Rhyperior has better physical bulk than PDon (as shown by our own calcs, 20.4<21.1 and the goal is to take less damage). And we have always known Rhyperior has shit spdef lol, but Rhyperior DOES outclass PDon in a physical role (and is in turn outclassed by Hippo but w/e). Pinsirite Rhyperior does sound cool though, and I can see Lopunnite working too, buffing its shit speed a bit so you can actually outspeed some walls lel and giving it STAB Superpower (Ground/Fighting is pretty cool offensively, and eliminates all Steels lol, so it could be useful).

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

._.

While I agree with the final verdict that Red Orb Rhyperior is generally outclassed (in fact p much all the time lel) I fail to see how you reached this conclusion. Last time I checked, bulk is measured by taking less damage, and Rhyperior has better physical bulk than PDon (as shown by our own calcs, 20.4<21.1 and the goal is to take less damage). And we have always known Rhyperior has shit spdef lol, but Rhyperior DOES outclass PDon in a physical role (and is in turn outclassed by Hippo but w/e). Pinsirite Rhyperior does sound cool though, and I can see Lopunnite working too, buffing its shit speed a bit so you can actually outspeed some walls lel and giving it STAB Superpower (Ground/Fighting is pretty cool offensively, and eliminates all Steels lol, so it could be useful).

And actually, 70 Spe isn't awful for a RP set. Its fast enough to outspeed most stuff after a boost, and it can tank atespeeds like a champ despite its weakness to them

 

[thesecondbest]

0 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 56-66 (13.8 - 16.3%) -- possible 7HKO
0 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 84-99 (20.7 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

0 Atk Mew Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 65-77 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Mew Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rhyperior: 111-131 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

No reason to use rhyperior unless you want to go max hp max attack in which case you are slightly weaker than groudon in both attacking stats but slightly physically bulkier. Plus no lava plume. Don't rank rhyperior for red orb.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Ghoul King, I'd suggest moving gothitelle down to C and sharpedonite up to B.

Gothitelle, as has been established, is kinda mediocre despite shadow tag. Unlike OU, it can't run its stall-destroying trickscarf set, and is basically outclassed by gengar in every regard. It's only plus is that it has shadow tag from the get go.

Sharpedonite fits the description of B rank perfectly. It is somewhat limited in abusers, but it is super good on multiple things. Tyranitar is a great example.

I'm going to test out feraligatr tomorrow and tell you what I find, but I think it's def worth a rank. Just crunching numbers, it looks like a serious threat. thdhted, you free to do a couple battles tomorrow afternoon?

 

[Snaquaza]

._.

While I agree with the final verdict that Red Orb Rhyperior is generally outclassed (in fact p much all the time lel) I fail to see how you reached this conclusion. Last time I checked, bulk is measured by taking less damage, and Rhyperior has better physical bulk than PDon (as shown by our own calcs, 20.4<21.1 and the goal is to take less damage). And we have always known Rhyperior has shit spdef lol, but Rhyperior DOES outclass PDon in a physical role (and is in turn outclassed by Hippo but w/e). Pinsirite Rhyperior does sound cool though, and I can see Lopunnite working too, buffing its shit speed a bit so you can actually outspeed some walls lel and giving it STAB Superpower (Ground/Fighting is pretty cool offensively, and eliminates all Steels lol, so it could be useful).

As I've stated before: it doesn't. The difference in Physical bulk is too slight to make a difference, while Primal Groudon outclassed Primal Rhyperior by far in most other regards. Although technically, Rhyperior has a bit higher bulk, it's still completely outclassed.

Maybe Rhyperior is viable with a Gyaradosite, I haven't tested it, but it sounds cool. Its stats go from 115/140/130/55/55/40 to 115/170/160/65/85/40, so it gets quite some more bulk, especially specially, while also getting a power boost. Its speed is too bad, but it can't all be good. Anyway, it gives it Mold Breaker so its Ground STAB can avoid Levitate and it gets a secondary Dark type over its Rock type, which reduces some of its old annoying weaknesses and gives it STAB Crunch (RIP Knock Off in this metagame).

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Ghoul King, I'd suggest moving gothitelle down to C and sharpedonite up to B.

Gothitelle, as has been established, is kinda mediocre despite shadow tag. Unlike OU, it can't run its stall-destroying trickscarf set, and is basically outclassed by gengar in every regard. It's only plus is that it has shadow tag from the get go.

Sharpedonite fits the description of B rank perfectly. It is somewhat limited in abusers, but it is super good on multiple things. Tyranitar is a great example.

I'm going to test out feraligatr tomorrow and tell you what I find, but I think it's def worth a rank. Just crunching numbers, it looks like a serious threat. thdhted, you free to do a couple battles tomorrow afternoon?

Gothitelle holding gengarite gains enough power to outright kills mons though, the added bulk is also amazing. It loses its ability to trick but gains the ability to effectively run a calm mind/taunt set, making it far more functional. In my opinion I see no reason to make it so complicated. Ban Shadow tag in itself.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Gothitelle holding gengarite gains enough power to outright kills mons though, the added bulk is also amazing. It loses its ability to trick but gains the ability to effectively run a calm mind/taunt set, making it far more functional. In my opinion I see no reason to make it so complicated. Ban Shadow tag in itself.

You see, I'm not necessarily disagreeing w/ you, however, I'm just saying that gothitelle is basically completely outclassed by gengar, and therefore shouldn't be that high. It has A niche for sure, but it isn't very good next to gar. This is why I'd move it down; just as altaria technically has a niche in cotton guard, it technically has a niche, however it is otherwise completely outclassed.

 

[Ghoul King]

The council is now voting on Shadow Tag.

(Not updating Gothitelle until after the decision is reached)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

You see, I'm not necessarily disagreeing w/ you, however, I'm just saying that gothitelle is basically completely outclassed by gengar, and therefore shouldn't be that high. It has A niche for sure, but it isn't very good next to gar. This is why I'd move it down; just as altaria technically has a niche in cotton guard, it technically has a niche, however it is otherwise completely outclassed.

Oh right, I forgot both of them couldn't carry Gengarite. So yeah you're right. Still doesn't mean Gothitelle will just take its place, so banning Shadow tag in its entirety would be best

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Ok guys, mix and mega has a VERY real chance at winning OMOTM, so if you haven't already... VOTE FOR IT!!! Don't be a scrub! Jk... I mean, vote for it, if you want... But whatever...

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

It really is fun, I've only played a couple matches so far, but I know what I'm talking about. Being able to equip a mega stone to almost anything and have any mon gain that mega stone's properties is very cool.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

haHA BOYYYS! OMOTM!

Anyways, so this isn't a trash post, i meant to try this w/ thdhted, but i had work all day. Here's a set that seriously intrigues me, but might be outclassed in some regards.

Feraligatr @ Charizardite X
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake/Aqua jet/ filler

85/151/133/100/79/78

W/ zardite x, Feraligatr has more power than sheer force LO gatr and it gains that awesome water/dragon typing. It has little difficulty setting up w/ awesome 85/133 Physical bulk, and, unlike most dragons, its only weak to one form of atespeed. Obviously not as dangerous of a dragon dancer as pixinite, but powerful none the less.

 

[Isa Simple]

Please don't hate me but;

Medicham + Sablenite
60/70/125/80/125/50
Magic Bounce with Substitute, Acupressure, Recover + Attack of Choice. (Just be thankful it doesn't get Stored Power).

Toxicroak + Sablenite
83/116/115/106/115/55
Magic Bounce with Substitute, Acupressure, Drain Punch + Attack of Choice.

Yall get my point. Get some Evasion boosts and listen to your opponents cry.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Acupressure seems like very luck based. You want something that makes opponent cry? I'd recommend this.

Sigilyph @ Sablenite
Ability: Wonder Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

Edit: some people may argue that Clefable is superior, but Sigilyph has its own advantages over Clefable.

Sigilyph:
1. STAB Stored Power
2. A little higher SpA

Clefable:
1. Bulkier
2. Better defensive typing
3. STAB Moonblast

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

So guys, not to brag, but, I'm kinda #2 on the ladder rn. Lol.

Anyways, a set I tried out to great results:

Empoleon @ Sablenite
Ability: Torrent
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Defog
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Literally just the set I use in OU, so the EVs aren't optimized at all, but it worked like a charm

 

[woodboys23]

I'd like to nominate Breloom for B-/C+ rank! (60/130/80/60/60/70)

Absolite = 60/150/80/100/60/110 Grass/Fighting with Magic Bounce 41.2 kg (60 BP)

Set

Breloom @ Absolite
Ability: Effect Spore --> Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Spore
- Seed Bomb

Explanation
The main aspect of this set is Magic Bounce as it makes sure you can't get burned, that's why this set is kinda slow to "set up". Another option is to have Poison Heal for Poison switch in's

Altarianite = 60/170/100/100/60/70 Grass/Fairy with Pixilate 39.2 kg (60 BP)

Set

Breloom @ Altarianite
Ability: Technician --> Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Double-Edge
- Frustration
- Seed Bomb

Explanation
POWER
252+ Atk Pixilate Breloom Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (Red Orb) Victini: 171-201 (50.1 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Pixilate Breloom Frustration vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (Salamencite) Dragonite: 422-500 (130.6 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Scizorite = 60/150/120/70/80/80 Grass/Fighting with Technician 46.2 kg (60 BP)

Set

Breloom @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance

Explantation
Standard techloom, but better lol

Aerodactlyite = 60/160/100/70/80/90 Grass/Fighting with Tough Claws 59.2 kg (80 BP)

Set

Breloom @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Technician
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb

Explanation
Not much to it, mach punch is upgraded, but ehh

Bannetite = 60/180/90/70/80/80 Grass/Fighting with Prankster 39.7 kg (60 BP)

Set

Breloom @ Banettite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Substitute
- Spore

Explanation
I love this set, sub punch is good when yor guaranteed sub

Loppunite = 60/190/90/60/60/100 Grass/Fighting with Scrappy 44.2 kg (60 BP)

Mewtwonite X = 60/210/90/60/80/70 Grass/Fighting with Steadfast 44.2 kg (60 BP)

Swampertite = 60/170/100/70/80/80 Grass/Fighting with Swift Swim 59.3 kg (80 BP)

Blue Orb = 60/180/80/90/80/70 Grass/Fighting with Primordial Sea 117.2 kg (100 BP)

(Too lazy to do rest

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I'd like to nominate Breloom for C/D rank! (Look for which stones are show worthy) (60/130/80/60/60/70)

Absolite = 60/150/80/100/60/110 Grass/Fighting with Magic Bounce 41.2 kg (60 BP)

Gardevoirite = 60/150/80/100/80/90 Grass/Fighting with Pixilate 39.2 kg (60 BP)

Altarianite = 60/170/100/100/60/70 Grass/Fairy with Pixilate 39.2 kg (60 BP)

Scizorite = 60/150/120/70/80/80 Grass/Fighting with Technician 46.2 kg (60 BP)

Abomasite = 60/170/110/100/80/40 Grass/Fighting with Snow Warning 88.7 kg (80 BP)

Houndoomite = 60/130/120/90/70/90 Grass/Fighting with Solar Power 53.7 kg (80 BP)

Aggronite = 60/160/130/60/80/70/70 Grass/Steel with Filter 74.2 kg (80 BP)

Aerodactlyite = 60/160/100/70/80/90 Grass/Fighting with Tough Claws 59.2 kg (80 BP)

Alakazite = 60/130/100/100/60/100 Grass/Fighting with Trace 39.2 kg (60 BP)

Ampharosite = 60/150/100/110/80/60 Grass/Dragon with Mold Breaker 39.2 (60 BP)

Audinite = 60/130/120/80/100 Grass/Fighting with Healer 40.2 (60 BP)

Bannetite = 60/180/90/70/80/80 Grass/Fighting with Prankster 39.7 (60 BP)

(Not done yet)

Some of those are basically trash, esp houndoomite. But I completely agree about breloom over all, I'd possibly even go higher just for the sheer quantity of different stones and play styles it can use, probs like a B.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

to keep in mind, as of now -Ate is pretty dominating. And -ate in mix and mega differentiate itself from Inheritance, AAA and even BH in that you can add a type and give them -ate, meaning every single pokemon with reasonable offensive prowess can abuse the ates, this means both stall, balance and offence face tremendous difficulties handling ate. You still have your regular -Ate abuser seen in almost every single game, but let me show you some hidden ones.

Hydreigon @ Altarianite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Hydreigon is an excellent -Ate abuser. With Dark and Fairy stabs it has near perfect neutral coverage aside from Klefki and Mega Mawile, earth power 2HKOing both of them. Hyper voices coming off 165 special attack hits incredible hard, as hard as Mega Gardevoir in OU but Hydreigon has better speed and defence effectively outclassing Mega Gardevoir.

Huge dump incoming

Noivern @ Altarianite
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- U-turn


Flygon @ Altarianite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Clefable @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

Suicune @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Snore
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Scald

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish

Bisharp @ Altarianite
Ability: Defiant
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Frustration
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch

I don't know how to solve this... But it feels... Broken.

 

[Lukethehedgehog]

Congrats on becoming the OMotM of July! I'll try to build a team later in the day once I have access to my computer.

 

[Isa Simple]

"D Rank Stones: Poor Mega Stones. Stones in this rank have only specific recipients and will fail if used on anything else."

Abomasite

Alakazite

May I ask what the specific recipients are? There aren't any on the viability rankings, so I'm assuming there aren't really any decent recipients that wouldn't prefer another stone 9 times out of 10. In which case the description is kinda misleading, and just trying to make the useless stones feel better.
But if of course there are decent users, I wanna know so that I can be "that guy" and use them.

EDIT: Also I believe Pidgeotite is misspelled in the Mega Stone Viability Rankings.

 

[Snaquaza]

"D Rank Stones: Poor Mega Stones. Stones in this rank have only specific recipients and will fail if used on anything else."

Abomasite

Alakazite

May I ask what the specific recipients are? There aren't any on the viability rankings, so I'm assuming there aren't really any decent recipients that wouldn't prefer another stone 9 times out of 10. In which case the description is kinda misleading, and just trying to make the useless stones feel better.
But if of course there are decent users, I wanna know so that I can be "that guy" and use them.

EDIT: Also I believe Pidgeotite is misspelled in the Mega Stone Viability Rankings.

Slower Ice-types should generally be usable with Abomasite if you want to use Hail. Problem is that most have mediocre stats and typing in general, but here are a few possibilities.

65 / 60 / 110 / 130 / 95 / 65 -> 65 / 100 / 130 / 170 / 125 / 35
Glaceon basically gets really strong and quite good bulk, but it can't really do much besides spamming Blizzard. I guess it could run Substitute / Blizzard / Baton Pass / Hidden Power Ground | Shadow Ball, but it seems mediocre even if its stats are good.

50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 -> 50 / 105 / 127 / 145 / 137 / 56
Rotom-Frost gets a reliable STAB move for the first time in its life, and can spam Blizzard as much as it wants now, but its speed has been cut badly. Volt Switch is still nice for momentum though, and Electric STAB pairs well with the Ice-STAB. As the last move you could use something like Will-o-Wisp to support the team. Overall not very good, but looks viable.

110 / 80 / 90 / 95 / 90 / 65 -> 110 / 120 / 110 / 135 / 120 / 35
Walrein's stats become pretty amazing as it becomes incredibly bulky, though the Water/Ice type hinders it a lot. As the others it can now spam Blizzard, together with its Water STAB, while this is more bulky and has a better type than the other too. The lack of recovery sucks though, as do the SR weakness and the fact that it's really slow.

Other than these, Vanilluxe could work with a mixed set (Rock Polish / Blizzard / Explosion / Hidden Power Ground), it seems really niche but is the only thing that can really abuse both boosts and the hail. Otherwise it could be used for mixed wallbreakers which don't care about their speed stats too much. Although most will still take damage from hail, it may just help them break through walls so I guess that could be viable on some stuff. Kyurem also becomes quite monstrous with this stone with 170 mixed offensive stats, so that could be a good recipient too for wallbreaking, I just wanted to cover some more unknown things. But in general, the fact this stone mostly benefits the Ice-typing and the fact that there are so few good Ice-types really hinders it. I'd like to hear it if anyone finds a viable set on a non-Ice type though.

As for Alakazite, it seems pretty much outclassed to me. The only saving grace could be if you really want Trace, but most of the time you'll want one of the other stones instead. It gives a nice +40 boosts in Special Attack and +30 in Speed, but multiple stones seem to do that, with most having better abilities and +100 instead of +90. Although, I'd like to see it if anyone feels Trace can be useful. (Maybe it can be good against some stones, it seems quite bad against -ate's tbh)

 

[thdhted]

problem is is that most of these would prefer:A, using pideotenite, or B, using cameruptite which gives very similar boosts, and your STAB's accuracy doesn't run out. The only viable thing i can see running it is Kyurem, who would rather use cameruptite

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

"D Rank Stones: Poor Mega Stones. Stones in this rank have only specific recipients and will fail if used on anything else."

Abomasite

Alakazite

May I ask what the specific recipients are? There aren't any on the viability rankings, so I'm assuming there aren't really any decent recipients that wouldn't prefer another stone 9 times out of 10. In which case the description is kinda misleading, and just trying to make the useless stones feel better.
But if of course there are decent users, I wanna know so that I can be "that guy" and use them.

EDIT: Also I believe Pidgeotite is misspelled in the Mega Stone Viability Rankings.

Basically, they HAVE use, but neither of them are preferable, again, like previously stated kyurem can use abomosite, especially if your cameruptite is already in use, and alakazite works on any special attacker, but it's just not particularly useful. Other stuff basically does what it does and more, so it's just...meh

However, I would like to point out how alakazite (due to sheer stat increase) can make alakazam viable even w/o magic guard. It is undoubtedly not bad, just outclassed.