ORAS UU Degradation

[Eeyore]

A team I actually played and tested before posting!


Teambuilding.

I started out with Cobalion and Haxorus, as the UU matchmaking thread's first winner was a pair between Cobalion and Mega-Sceptile, but I wanted to use Scarf Haxorus instead due to mold breaker, and some mild success I had with a previous team using ScarfHax

I then added Krookodile, as I wanted a little more defensive pressure, and thought Krook could do a decent job doing it

I then added pidgeot, as a revenge sweeper, and a special attacker. It's speed and coverage in Hurricane and Heat Wave, along with U-turn for momentum with Cobalion's Volt Switch was too good to pass up.

Mienshao was added as a dedicated lead -- fake out, drain punch, Knock off, U-turn Regenerator

I first started with Porygon2, but it only saw one or two games under a subpar alt, so I don't really count it, I knew I wanted something bulky, but I didn't want anything "stall" I wanted more balance, so I tried out mons like Empoleon, but I ended up with Fatmence-- It pairs really well with Krook, with resistance to fighting and water, but a little less utility. This set was the standard defog set.

The problem came with having Haxorus and Mence. I was just too frail. I started by replacing FatMence with Reuniclus the Lord, but inevitably switched Haxorus and Kept FatMence to try and keep a bulky offense. I was also incredibly specially weak.

But inevitably, Mega Blastoise, Suicune (especially Suicune), Empoleon, and Tentacruel just walled me, so I switched Mienshao with Toxicroak.

It was here that I changed the FatMence set to a DDFatmence, with a bit higher speed and a little lower Defense.Pidgeot got suspect tested so I started with Mega Aerodactyl, which won me about 4 games, and lost me 1, but inevitably changed to Mega Sharpedo, as a revenge killer instead of a wallbreaker-- as DDFatmence is now doing.

After posting the RMT, I changed the Cobalion set to maximize speed, the Krook set from Utility to Banded, and changed Fatmence to Christo's Special Defog, as well as changing Reuniclus to Cresselia to give more defensive options with the new introduction of stronger offensive opportunity.


The Team

Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Iron Head

Let's start out strange, shall we? Cobalion is (or was when creating the team) a really strange threat. It doesn't have the immediate stat presence of Lucario, but its natural defense means it takes a hit, so it can usually hit twice, and its ridiculous natural speed means it outspeeds Mienshao and Shaymin while Speed tying with Infernape, and its 8 resistances including Bug, Ice, Dragon and Grass make for good stops on Mega Aerodactyl, Lucario, Mega Beedrill when otherwise they could sweep. I opted for Volt Switch over Swords Dance after about a dozen or so tests on my main account because I liked the momentum, and because Krook doesn't often tempt to switch in. Stealth Rock is the crux of the set, often used when pressuring Blissey or Florges out, and allowing for its teammates to clean up. While it isn't often the most important, its role is still crucial. Cobalion, though seemingly designed as a lead, tends not to be, but more of an early to mid game player, and fodder for late game sweepers like Toxicroak and Sharpedo.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

Reuniclus was replaced by Cresselia, who adds a more rounded defensive option, with more reliable recovery, and a chance to set-up sweep. Cress can Moonlight on Mamoswine at the expense of losing its item, and take any hit from Mega Sceptile, and Moonlight it off -- eliminating the problems of the old team.

Krookodile @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

Support Krook was replaced by Banded Krook, whose monstrous offensive capabilities allow it to be a powerhouse utility mon, as well as a wallbreaker and sweeper if needed. The set is standard with max speed to outspeed Timid Chandelure, 216+ speed Kyurem, Neutral Entei and OHKO and outspeed Modest Hydreigon and max speed Rotom Heat

Sharpedo @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Standard Sharpedo, simple but effective. Revenge Killer most of the time, far too frail to switch in, though with some prediction, can be a worthy foe. I often will Cobalion Volt Switch off of Mega Sceptile, to get the "slow" Volt Switch and a clean switch into Sharpedo, but other than that cannot do too much other than wait for a KO.

At first this mon was Mega Pidgeot, which though I loved, kept constantly underwhelming me. It was the speed more than anything. Sharpedo with Speed Boost almost always hits that speed threshold, at +1 can outspeed Modest Mega Sceptile as standard Sharpedo, and Timid Mega Sceptile once mega Evolved, and OHKO either with Ice Fang. As a mind game, I tend to attack first turn, to get one speed boost, and then protect turn 2. +2 Mega Sharpedo is never outsped without wasting a turn setting up. I'm sure that's nowhere near as next level as I pretend it is on the lower ladder. Sharpedo is a late game sweeper, though can function as a mid-game wallbreaker if Toxicroak becomes a win-condition.

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

When Mienshao owned this slot, Suicune, Tentacruel, Mega Blastoise, Empoleon and Vaporeon were impenetrable walls. No longer. Standard Max Speed Toxicroak is amazing at taking out what the rest of the team cannot-- and as a second revenge killer, is much better if Sharpedo is needed to clean up later, or to lure out Azelf, Reuniclus, or Machamp (why people bring out Machamp I don't know, but it happens all the time on my alts.) It's another standard set that doesn't need too much explaining. Toxicroak is an alternate to Sharpedo, but is the only mon with Priority moves, so should be used to check fast threats that think their speed is their greatest strength.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Defog
- Roost

Special Mence was recommended by Christo, as it adds a second special attacker, the utility of defog: which often runs down the team, and still is a good fighting check. Max Speed and Special Attack pokes holes in walls that could otherwise stop Sharpedo and Krook from sweeping.


Threats :: Under analysis


I'm currently 16-3, 1 loss was to a Thunder Fang Krook and a team of choice scarfs (with Mega Aerodactly on the team), 1 was to Sub Sceptile, and 1 was because I disconnected.
I will continue laddering as well, with updates on progress over time.

 

[Yoda2798]

Hi there! Very nice team you have here. You can use sprites from moving 3d sprites from here to help the post look even better.

If Coballion commonly ends up as fodder, would moving the Attack EVs to HP maybe help it live longer, particularly from Special hits? It would help it in the utility role more, as it would give more reliability in setting up rocks, as that supports other members of the team more than a bit more damage on CC and Iron Head.

 

[Eeyore]

The answer is yes, but the reason Cobalion ends up as fodder is because of its role, not because of the mon. First, if Cobalion's attack goes below 152, it has to roll in order to 2HKO Defensive Florges, though to be fair it only has a 95% chance to 2HKO fully physically defensive Florges.

The point of Cobalion is to make dents, not to sponge attacks, and as Rocks usually go up without a hitch due to Cobalion's amazing speed, why would I want to sacrifice power? The HP doesn't more reliably set up rocks if you're simply faster than your opponent. And after Rocks are up, Cobalion would become deadweight.
More HP would actually be harder to KO (obviously), meaning it would be harder for me to get my revenge killer in, but more importantly, because Cobalion is faster, it can often hit mons like Krook or Nidos before being OHKOed, meaning that another mon actually gets the ability to clean it up, instead of my team getting swept. It's a kamikaze stratgy-- do what needs to get done, then do as much hurt as you can before it's over. If it were about Rocks and Saccing, Azelf would be a better choice.

But changing the EVs means I'd also have to know what threats I want to survive, that another teammate can't take care of, Cobalion could also survive, and would be WORTH me switching in.
Lets look at the threatlist. With the investment that I said, Sash Mamoswine's EQ always is a 2HKO. I will always beat it. Scarf is also a 2HKO, meaning that even after outspeeding me, it gets OHKOed. However, I lose the ability to guarantee OHKO Scarf at 224 Attack or lower. That means for Mamoswine not to sweep me almost every single time, I really can only put in a few more points of HP. Sceptile always beats me, no matter how much HP I put in, and Cresselia, the less attack I have, the more likely she is to outstall me. In all three, not hitting for maximum damage is actually detrimental.

Cobalion isn't a sponge, and it isn't a tank. It simply doesn't have the stats. What it is and what it is good at is a fast rocks user. But I'm writing in my post mostly that you shouldn't be scared to use IT as the sack that allows you to bring Sharpedo or Toxicroak in to seize the game-- and is the one I go for instead of Reuniclus, Salamence or Krookodile, whose presence often mean a lot more.

Also I'm fully aware of the animated sprites. I just didn't feel like it.

 

[Christo]

Hello, cool team you have here. Here are some basic changes I believe you should implement: Swords Dance over Volt Switch on Cobalion. Reasoning: Cobalion is a tad underwhelming without Swords Dance in UU. SD provides a nice win condition and you do not lose much at all from dropping Volt Switch.
Choice Band over Earth Plate on Krookodile. When Krook is not running Stealth Rocks, Choice Band is usually your way to go. You even say in your description that you want more power(Earth Plate or Dread Plate are not the only items krook has to run lol).
Take the HP out of Cobalion and Krookodile and put it back into Speed. You have no reason to add that minimal amount of HP to lose your speed, Especially on Krookodile which benefits from outspeeding Base 90s like Roserade. I see that you have little to no special attacking presence since your Reuniclus has Psyshock(Why do you have Psyshock, you are not running Calm Mind so I am confused on why you are running that over Psychic). So change Psyshock to Psychic on Reuniclus.

My main change to your team would be to change your Salamence spread to:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Defog
- Roost

This set is one that i made and has gained a bit of popularity. Its a Special Attacking mence that can still check fighting types, Defog, and keep offensive pressure(which fits your team). This is also a great to lure in Defensive pokemon that would usually switch into Salamence and to blow them back with a Draco Meteor. This would open wholes for your other Physically offensive threats to put in work. I hope you take my changes into consideration, cool team.

 

[Eeyore]

Hello, cool team you have here. Here are some basic changes I believe you should implement: Swords Dance over Volt Switch on Cobalion. Reasoning: Cobalion is a tad underwhelming without Swords Dance in UU. SD provides a nice win condition and you do not lose much at all from dropping Volt Switch.
Choice Band over Earth Plate on Krookodile. When Krook is not running Stealth Rocks, Choice Band is usually your way to go. You even say in your description that you want more power(Earth Plate or Dread Plate are not the only items krook has to run lol).
Take the HP out of Cobalion and Krookodile and put it back into Speed. You have no reason to add that minimal amount of HP to lose your speed, Especially on Krookodile which benefits from outspeeding Base 90s like Roserade. I see that you have little to no special attacking presence since your Reuniclus has Psyshock(Why do you have Psyshock, you are not running Calm Mind so I am confused on why you are running that over Psychic). So change Psyshock to Psychic on Reuniclus.

My main change to your team would be to change your Salamence spread to:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Defog
- Roost

This set is one that i made and has gained a bit of popularity. Its a Special Attacking mence that can still check fighting types, Defog, and keep offensive pressure(which fits your team). This is also a great to lure in Defensive pokemon that would usually switch into Salamence and to blow them back with a Draco Meteor. This would open wholes for your other Physically offensive threats to put in work. I hope you take my changes into consideration, cool team.

I did explain why I opted for Volt Switch over Swords Dance, however, I will consider HP into Speed, though both of those are Smogon sets, and I liked and agreed with the reasonings their smogon analyzer gave. Psyshock is for specially bulky walls that otherwise would take no damage on a switch in. Snorlax, Blissey and Florges are the big ones.
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 109-129 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 194-230 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- 53.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 229-270 (32 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 87-103 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 129-153 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 102-121 (20.5 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 139-165 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 86% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Does it mean those pokemon still don't wall Reuniclus? No -- but it's a significant portion of damage.
Please read the set http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...n-the-uu-metagame.3503842/page-6#post-6100867


As for Salamence, that's another one I'll try, though I probably won't use Defog, because Rocks don't destroy my team as much as they used to.

 

[Christo]

I did explain why I opted for Volt Switch over Swords Dance, however, I will consider HP into Speed, though both of those are Smogon sets, and I liked and agreed with the reasonings their smogon analyzer gave. Psyshock is for specially bulky walls that otherwise would take no damage on a switch in. Snorlax, Blissey and Florges are the big ones.
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 109-129 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 194-230 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- 53.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 229-270 (32 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 24+ SpD Florges: 87-103 (24.1 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 129-153 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- 91.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

112+ SpA Reuniclus Psychic vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 102-121 (20.5 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
112+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 139-165 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 86% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Does it mean those pokemon still don't wall Reuniclus? No -- but it's a significant portion of damage.
Please read the set http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...n-the-uu-metagame.3503842/page-6#post-6100867


As for Salamence, that's another one I'll try, though I probably won't use Defog, because Rocks don't destroy my team as much as they used to.

I am confused as to why you think you NEED to hit Florges, Snorlax, and Blissey with more damage. Since your team is so physically oriented, you inherently would not be weak to such Pokemon. Especially is your case, where you have Cobalion, Toxicroak, and (hopefully) banded Krookodile which threaten all of the Pokemon you listed.

 

[Eeyore]

I am confused as to why you think you NEED to hit Florges, Snorlax, and Blissey with more damage. Since your team is so physically oriented, you inherently would not be weak to such Pokemon. Especially is your case, where you have Cobalion, Toxicroak, and (hopefully) banded Krookodile which threaten all of the Pokemon you listed.

good point. I did it partially because that was the set, and I inherently trust the creator, but partially because those are switch-ins, and I wanted Reunicles to be able to at least get a small handle on them

 

[Bouff]

Sup Eeyore, pretty nice team you got, covers most bases. Christo covered pretty much on what I would give ya (although with my changes you could probably stick with Volt Switch on Cobalion, because pivoting into Band Krook or w/e is really nice and I usually don't find SD SR worth it when you have another win con, at least that's what I think), but I really think you should get rid of AV Reuni because it's just......bad. I really don't see why you're using it over Cress, or Magic Guard CM Reuni at the very least...yeah you're tankin a bunch of hits, but when you realize how easily it gets worn down by hazards it's usually just not worth it at all. I really think you're better off replacing Reuni with CM Moonlight Cresselia; this also helps you out with most of your issues as well, because Cress can Moonlight on Mamoswine at the expense of losing its item (assuming Mamo is LO), Cress can tank any hit from Mega Sceptile and recover off with Moonlight, and it can deal with SpDef Cresselias by setting up on them; if you're facing other CM Cresses then unless you get rid of it early with Krook / Shark it'll probably turn into a CM War anyway.

Here's the set if you need it;

Hide

Cresselia @ Leftovers
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

Hope I helped brotha, GL

 

[Eeyore]

I would like to thank both of you, I seriously think the team has improved, and I'd like to add the changed to the OP. It was difficult relearning the team at first with Cress, but the weight it pulls is infinitely better. Band Krook is a monster, I just have to remember it isn't utility. Thank you for your suggestions