Illumise [QC 3/3][GP 2/2]

[SparksBlade]

QC (2/3): GrimoireGod, WhiteDMist, Anty
GP (0/2): P Squared, Snobalt

[OVERVIEW]

Illumise has access to Prankster, which helps it easily pass Substitutes to its teammates as well as annoy walls with Encore by locking them into their support moves. Although it faces competition from Volbeat as a Prankster user, it is a better user of Substitute + Baton Pass because Bug Buzz is a better attacking option than U-turn. Like Volbeat, Illumise is affected by all entry hazards and cannot function throughout the match if they're up. It has a hard time against offensive teams, as it is relatively frail and has difficulty setting up on even resisted attacks; it functions better against balanced teams and can be pivotal in letting a teammate set up and sweep.

[SET]
name: Substitute + Baton Pass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Encore
move 4: Bug Buzz
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Prankster Substitute acts as a shield for Illumise, and it can be passed to teammates with priority Baton Pass. Encore is used to lock the opposing Pokemon into a move that allows Illumise to set up, such as locking Raichu into Focus Blast or locking a Clefairy into Soft-Boiled thereby giving Illumise a free turn. Bug Buzz prevents Illumise from being Taunt bait, and it also does relevant damage to Grumpig, which is the most notable phazer in the metagame. Thunder Wave can be used to slow down a setup sweeper, but it doesn't have any other specific use, nor does Illumise have room for it. Roost can be used over Bug Buzz for some longevity, especially on teams that lack entry hazard control, but it makes Illumise Taunt bait with zero offensive presence.

Set Details
========

248 HP EVs are used to maximize Illumise's bulk while letting it come in on Stealth Rock at least four times. Maximum Defense EVs coupled with a Bold nature allow it to come in on resisted physical hits from foes such as Ground- and Fighting-types better, and then Illumise can Encore them to ease setting up Substitute. Leftovers provides Illumise with passive recovery, which is good because the residual damage from resisted hits and entry hazards builds up quickly.

Usage Tips
========

Illumise should be sent in on only resisted attacks, such as Close Combat from Machoke, or on a setup move such as Calm Mind from Duosion, and then use Encore to get a free turn. Walls such as Lickilicky and Clefairy can also be used to give Illumise a free switch, and then it can lock them into a support move with Encore. When given the chance, pass Substitutes to setup sweepers such as Shell Smash Carracosta and Nasty Plot Raichu or to wallbreakers such as Stoutland. Sometimes Baton Pass can be used without a Substitute and bring in a slow wallbreaker. Encore can sometimes be very obvious, and your opponent can get a free switch if they predict right; therefore, it should be used carefully.

Team Options
========

Frail setup sweepers, such as Raichu, Simipour, and Fraxure, are excellent recipients of Substitute and threaten common switch-ins to Illumise such as Dodrio and Rapidash. Setup sweepers that have trouble because of their typing, such as Barbaracle, Carracosta, and Beartic, and wallbreakers, such as Stoutland and Kadabra, are also good recipients of Substitute, which allows them to weaken the opposing team without worrying about status moves. Illumise is very quickly worn down by all forms of entry hazards, so spinners or Defoggers, such as Armaldo and Pelipper, respectively, are instrumental in helping Illumise to do its work over the course of the match. As Illumise causes many switches with Encore and the teammates it brings in with Baton Pass, entry hazard setters such as Armaldo and Roselia are good partners to Illumise, helping rack up residual damage on the opposing team. Volt Switch and U-turn users, such as Zebstrika and Monferno, pair well with Illumise, as they keep momentum in your team's favor.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Weather sets with Rain Dance or Sunny Day are usable, but because a slow U-turn is preferred on such builds over Baton Pass, Volbeat completely outclasses Illumise for that set due to its higher Attack. Toxic can be used to wear down a bulky Pokemon, and deter it from staying in for long, but it serves no specific purpose besides that, as Encore and Baton Pass force switches anyway. Tailwind can be used right before fainting to help support the team, but it's very situational and only useful on teams consisting of slow wallbreakers; otherwise, Encore is almost always better.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Pressure**: Offensive pressure from Pokemon with super effective moves, such as Dodrio and Rapidash, or strong neutral moves, such as Stoutland, prevent Illumise from keeping its Substitute up, which hinders it a lot from doing its job.

**Residual Damage**: Illumise is affected by all forms of entry hazards and only has Leftovers for passive recovery. It's worn down even more quickly if it gets hit by Knock Off.

**Infiltrator**: Jumpluff and Ninjask can both hit Illumise super effectively through its Substitute; Jumpluff can use Sleep Powder as well. Therefore, passing a Substitute in front of these Pokemon is mostly futile, as the receiver won't get in safely either.

 

[SparksBlade]

ready for QC

 

[MZ]

Obv I'm not qc, but I think it's worth mentioning jumpluff (Ninjask too I guess) in threats because infiltrator + SE Stab on Illumise +sleep powder/encore through the sub (for jumpluff)

 

[SparksBlade]

uh do infiltrator ninjask exist? i'll wait for qc input on that, but will add jumpluff tho, thanks

added both actually, ladder doesnt teach that much :/

 

[Grim]

[OVERVIEW]
This needs to be more detailed. Say exactly why Prankster is good (makes it easy to set up subs with encore and to pass them with baton pass).
Better user of Baton Pass + Substitute than which mon? (Volbeat yeah but others might not know)
Say why Volbeat is usually better (Stronger U-turn and literally the same in everything else)
Say that it's bulk is mediocre at best and it thus has trouble living strong resisted hits and obviously super effective ones
Also mention this low bulk + mediocre typing when you talk about it hard to pass subs consistently through the game without Roost

[SET]
Make the name Substitute + Baton Pass because it needs to be formal

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Say how Encore helps with passing subs (encoring a raichu locked into focus blast for example).

Set Details
========
Also say why passive recovery from Leftovers is good (makes up for health lost with making subs and can switch into entry hazards more often)
Say that while specially defensive can be useful depending on the team, Illumise's resistances are better defensively

Usage Tips
========
Mention to what kind of Pokemon you should pass

Team Options
========
Say why those setup sweepers threaten common Illumise switchins (type advantage)
Say which entry hazards they they set up

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
For the latter three also say that this set doesn't really have room for them and say that generally Illumise is outclassed in everything but this by volbeat even though in practise illumise is an okay user of them.

Checks and Counters
===================
This is currently not in the correct format, check other analyses for the correct one. Also be much more descriptive and say why they check and how they take advantage of Illumise

In general you need to be much more descriptive because it's looking kinda bare right now.

 

[SparksBlade]

will do all this when i wake up, thanks

 

[MZ]

Overview: Mention how it can function as an annoyer with prankster, not just that it helps for subs

Set comments: roost and a spdef spread should go in OO not there unless a QC member said they're good enough to go there, which I don't think they are

UT: hazard removal goes in team options not there. this can really be beefed up, talk about the potential of dry passing, not being too predictable with encore and maybe passing to strong but slower wall breakers, not just set up sweepers

overview, set comments, usage tips and team options need way more stuff there. This could use a lot more detail as right now it's rather obvious and broad. Someone else will probably go into more detail about what to add/change specifically, but since you asked for a check I'm giving you a few specific things and advising you write more.

 

[SparksBlade]

thanks Megazard, i'll be on it in a couple hours after im done with alerts that piled up in last 5 days

 

[SparksBlade]

k i made most of the changes, fattened the whole of it a bit
i talked with grimoire and he said roost and spdef spread are fine where they are
thanks for the input :]

 

[g]

You should stress how terrible this is and how it loses to pretty much everything in the metagame unless they try to set up on it in every section lol

 

[SparksBlade]

made a couple small changes here and there(very small), and added this to overview

• Has a tough time against offensive teams as it doesn't get much room to perform its job

already mentioned it doesnt take even resisted hits, idk how to make it look more terrible :/

 

[WhiteDMist]

Idk how you will write this up, so I'll point this out now. The weather setter needs a very large mention at the very least, as it's one of Illumise's best sets. Volbeat's stronger U-turn comes in handy in some niche situations (like last mon) but it isn't an overwhelming asset that makes Illumise's set bad. It may be worth its own set, but for now I'm fine with a larger OO mention.

 

[SparksBlade]

from how i understand it, you want me to lessen the "volbeat is better weather seater cos uturn" and raise the "illumise is a fine weather setter"? i'll get to it when i wake up, thanks.

 

[Grim]

[OVERVIEW]

• Prankster eases passing Substitutes and annoys walls by Encore Not just walls, Prankster Encore is really helpful and almost the only thing that lets it pass Substitutes.

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Substitute+Baton Pass to bring other mons in safely so they can set up more easily Split this in two points and be a little more detailed in what exactly they do.
• Encore allows easy set-up for teammates and for itself to pass Substitutes like on Raichu that used Focus Blast last turn. It also annoys walls and prevents them from doing their job reliably Explain how exactly.
• Roost can be used over Bug Buzz to have longevity, but then you're complete Taunt bait with zero-offensive presence Mention that extra longevity is useful on teams that lack entry hazard control

Set Details
========

• 248 HP to max out bulk while being able to come in on Stealth Rock at least 4 times
• Max Defense to improve the non-existent bulk, allowing it to come in on resisted physical hits like from Ground- and Fighting-types, and encore them to ease set-up
• Bold Nature to help further improve the still non-existent bulk With full investment this bulk is not that non-existent anymore so you don't need to keep stressing that lol.
• Leftovers provide passive recovery which is good cos it is easily worn down from using Substitute repetitively and chip damage Chip damage from what?

Usage Tips
========

• Pass Substitutes to set-up sweepers like Shell Smash Carracosta and Nasty Plot Raichu, which also beat common switch ins to Illumise like Rapidash It doesn't have to be a setup sweeper, they're just the primary choice. Like Zard said wallbreakers are also okay receivants.
• Baton Pass can be used by itself to ease prediction and to bring in a slow wallbreaker safely Mention when to do this

Mention that using Encore is not always the best play because it can be really predictable and give free switchins.

Team Options
========

• Set-up sweepers like NP Raichu, Ninetails, and Pawniard really appreciate the Substitutes passed to them, while threatening common switch-ins to Illumise like Dodrio and Flareon Mention Rapidash instead of Flareon, it's much more relevant. Mention wallbreakers too.
• Entry hazard removers like Armaldo and Pelipper help Illumise to come in more freely How exactly? Be detailed.

Also mention teammates with Volt Switch and U-turn because together with Ilumise and its potential dry passes they can hold the momentum and can be used on the same kind of teams.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Weather - Sets with Rain Dance or Sunny Day are usable, but Volbeat is better because it has a stronger U-Turn, and weather teams appreciate slow U-Turns Mention that a weather set is actually effective but because you're going to always use U-turn Volbeat is literally just superior. Lol at Volbeat + Illumise on the same team.
• Toxic - To deter a mon from staying in for a long time, but it's doesn't serve any specific purpose cos Encore causes switches anyway, and Illumise doesn't have much room for it It also cripples fat Pokemon.
• Tailwind - To support the team before it faints, but it's very situational and Encore is almost always better, and Illumise doesn't have much room for it Mention how it supports the team and that it works best with slowish wallbreakers such as Stoutland.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Phazers**: Phazers like Grumpig deter Illumise from performing well as they make passing Substitutes futile Mention how they stop Illumise and that Illumise does a good chunk to Grumpig with Bug Buzz. Also mention Lickilicky and Zweilous.

**Taunt**: Taunt users like Misdreavus prevent Illumise from passing Substitutes, forcing you to switch almost always Mention that if they switch in as Illumise sets up a Substitute it can just use Baton Pass and pass it, so they only prevent it from doing its job 1v1.

**Mons with type advantage**: Flying types, Rock types, and Fire types like Dodrio, Golem, and Flareon, respectively, beat it 1v1, though they can't stop Illumise from passing Substitutes if it's already behind one. Rename this as **Type Advantage**. Once again mention some other Fire-type over Flareon.

**Chip Damage**: With Leftovers as only way of recovery, Illumise is easily worn down by entry hazards and even resisted hits Mention its weakness to all entry hazards and also say that if Illumise loses its Leftovers to, for example, a Machoke's Knock Off, it's worn down even faster.

**Infiltrator**: Jumpluff and Ninjask can damage through the Sub, or in Jumpluff's case, use Sleep Powder as well Mention that both relevant users also hit it super effectively, that they also prevent the receiver from getting a damageless switch in, and that Jumpluff often uses Chlorophyll now.

 

[SparksBlade]

did all this

 

[Grim]

Overview: Again Encore doesn't just annoy walls, and say that it's like the only thing that even gives it the opportunity to pass Substitutes. Don't mention Thunder Wave and Tailwind in the overview if they aren't on the main set, just replace them with Encore and Baton Pass.

Moves: Don't say Substitute just avoids status, it's pretty much the whole point of the set so say it acts as a shield that can be passed to teammates with Baton Pass.
Usage Tips: Also say Substitutes don't always have to be passed to setup sweepers, sometimes it's not sweeping time yet and / or it would be more wise to pass to a wallbreaker or whatever really. For the last point also mention that if you believe the opponent is going to switch out predicting the Encore that you can just set up a Substitute and pass it away next turn.

Team Options: It's Ninetales -3- Mention why VoltTurners are good teammates (functions well together with Baton Pass).

Other Options: Mention that the threat of Thunder Wave also helps forcing more switches and thus creates more setup opportunities.

1/3 after you've done this.

 

[SparksBlade]

i talked with you about most of this, did what we agreed to in the end

Overview: Again Encore doesn't just annoy walls, and say that it's like the only thing that even gives it the opportunity to pass Substitutes. but that's more of a thing for Moves than overview
Don't mention Thunder Wave and Tailwind in the overview if they aren't on the main set, just replace them with Encore and Baton did

Moves: Don't say Substitute just avoids status, it's pretty much the whole point of the set so say it acts as a shield that can be passed to teammates with Baton Pass. did, will look more pretty in write-up i hope
Usage Tips: Also say Substitutes don't always have to be passed to setup sweepers, sometimes it's not sweeping time yet and / or it would be more wise to pass to a wallbreaker or whatever really. did
For the last point also mention that if you believe the opponent is going to switch out predicting the Encore that you can just set up a Substitute and pass it away next turn. did

Team Options: It's Ninetales -3- Mention why VoltTurners are good teammates (functions well together with Baton Pass). tail rip, mentioned control of momentum

Other Options: Mention that the threat of Thunder Wave also helps forcing more switches and thus creates more setup opportunities. encore,toxic do that as well, hope you remember the convo q.q

1/3 after you've done this. pls confirm

sorry for taking long, my net kind of shitted on the day i was supposed to have time for this ._.

 

[WhiteDMist]

too lazy to format this, comments in bold

QC (1/3): GrimoireGod, __, __
GP (0/2): __, __

[OVERVIEW]

• Prankster eases passing Substitutes and annoys walls by Encore
• Decent supporting capabilities, with moves such as Baton Pass and Encore which eases setting up
• Better user of BP+Sub than Volbeat as Bug Buzz is better than U-Turn for this purpose
• Still mediocre at best and outclassed by Volbeat in almost everything else like providing weather support More like Volbeat has the advantage of a stronger U-turn when it comes to setting up weather.
• Heavily relies on Encore to perform its job, making it too predictable Prediction works both ways, wouldn't say this
• Has a tough time against offensive teams as it doesn't get much room to perform its job
• Bulk is mediocre, has a hard time against even neutral hits
• Affected by all forms of entry hazards and therefore can't function throughout the match You mean do its job multiple times correct?

[SET]
name: Substitute+Baton Pass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Encore
move 4: Bug buzz
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpDef

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Substitute acts as a shield that can be passed to teammates with Baton Pass.
• Baton Pass to bring other mons in safely, usually behind a Substitute, so they can set up more easily
• Encore allows easy set-up for teammates and for itself to pass Substitutes like on Raichu that used Focus Blast last turn. It also annoys walls and prevents them from doing their job reliably, for example, locking a Clefairy into Softboiled stops it from using Thunder Wave and gives you a free turn
• Bug Buzz is used to not be Taunt bait, and to do relevant damage on Grumpig, which is the most important phazer of the tier
• Roost can be used over Bug Buzz to have longevity , specially on teams that lack entry hazard control, but then you're complete Taunt bait with zero-offensive presence

Set Details
========

• 248 HP to max out bulk while being able to come in on Stealth Rock at least 4 times
• Max Defense and a Bold nature to improve the non-existent bulk, allowing it to come in on resisted physical hits like from Ground- and Fighting-types, and encore them to ease set-up
• Leftovers provide passive recovery which is good cos it is easily worn down from using Substitute repetitively and chip damage from entry hazards and/or resisted hits
• A specially defensive spread with 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpDef and Calm nature can be used, but Illumise's resisted types see more usage on physical the side

Usage Tips
========

• Bring it in on resisted hits like Close Combat from Machoke and Focus Blast from Raichu, Encore and then proceed to set up Or on set up Pokemon
• Walls like Lickilicky and entry hazard setters like Roselia also are a free switch-in which it can Encore Idk if you want to tell people to lock Roselia into hazards, maybe Synthesis or Sleep Powder (behind a Sub).
• Pass Substitutes to set-up sweepers like Shell Smash Carracosta and Nasty Plot Raichu, which also beat common switch ins to Illumise like Rapidash, or wallbreakers like Stoutland
• Baton Pass can be used by itself to ease prediction and to bring in a slow wallbreaker safely, as Illumise forces switches can be used to grab momentum
• Encore is sometimes too obvious so refrain from using it repetitively as it gives your opponent a free switch Careful, tips on prediction should go both ways. What if you predict your opponent to switch out predicting your Encore?

Team Options
========

• Set-up sweepers like NP Raichu, Ninetales, and Pawniard really appreciate the Substitutes passed to them, while threatening common switch-ins to Illumise like Dodrio and Rapidash
• Since Illumise is affected by all forms of entry hazards, Spinners and Defoggers, like Armaldo and Pelipper respectively, help Illumise more often by removing the entry hazards
• Entry hazard setters like Armaldo, which sets up Stealth Rock, and Roselia, which sets up Spikes or Toxic Spikes, are also good partners as Illumise causes many switches with Baton Pass It doesn't cause switches with BP, it causes them with Encore. Even so, hardly that often, as most people won't set up until Illumise is dead. Not really worth noting hazard users imo unless you can think of a relevant example that makes this differnet than with any other Pokemon.
• Volt Switch and U-Turn users like Zebstrika an Monferno pair well with Illumise as they keep grab of momentum

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Weather - Sets with Rain Dance or Sunny Day are usable, but since a slow U-Turn is preferable on such builds over Baton Pass, and Volbeat is chosen more often as it hits harder than Illumise. Though this makes Volbeat superior, Illumise is still usable Illumise has the same speed as Volbeat... Volbeat is only slightly superior in this regards as well
• Toxic - To deter a mon from staying in for a long time, but it's doesn't serve any specific purpose except crippling a wall cos Encore causes switches anyway, and Illumise doesn't have much room for it
• Thunder Wave - Clutch speed control is nice to prevent a fast mon from wrecking havoc, but same as Toxic it's just not specific enough, and Illumise doesn't have much room for it
• Tailwind - To support the team before it faints, but it's only useful on teams consisting of slow wallbreakers, else Encore is almost always better

Checks and Counters
===================

**Phazers**: Phazers like Grumpig and Zweilous deter Illumise from performing well as they make passing Substitutes futile, though Illumise does hits both of these for relevant damage with Bug Buzz

**Taunt**: Taunt users like Misdreavus prevent Illumise from passing Substitutes in a 1v1 scenario, forcing you to switch almost always, but they can't beat it if you already used Substitute as they switched in as Illumise has priority Baton Pass

**Type Advantage**: Flying types, Rock types, and Fire types like Dodrio, Golem, and Rapidash, respectively, beat it 1v1, though they can't stop Illumise from passing Substitutes if it's already behind one.

**Chip Damage**: Illumise is affected by all form of entry hazards, and only has Leftovers for passive recovery. It's worn down even quickly if it gets hit by Knock Off Residual damage is standard on analyses

**Infiltrator**: Jumpluff and Ninjask can both hit it super effectively through the Sub, or in Jumpluff's case, use Sleep Powder as well, and therefore passing a Sub in front of these is mostly rendered futile as the receiver doesn't get in safely either

 

[Anty]

SparksBlade please implement wdm's check

 

[SparksBlade]

i did bits of it, for rest i was hoping to catch wdm online sometime, but it's been sort of busy week for me. i'll do the rest after i talk to him, sorry for such delay

 

[WhiteDMist]

what do you need explained? if you disagree about a part of the check, just write it here.

 

[SparksBlade]

• Still mediocre at best and outclassed by Volbeat in almost everything else like providing weather support More like Volbeat has the advantage of a stronger U-turn when it comes to setting up weather.

should i explain in overview that volbeat has a stronger uturn, which weather teams prefer over bpass, which makes it better than illumise. It seems to much to mention in an overview for me, and i mention that in oo anyway

• Heavily relies on Encore to perform its job, making it too predictable Prediction works both ways, wouldn't say this

• Encore is sometimes too obvious so refrain from using it repetitively as it gives your opponent a free switch Careful, tips on prediction should go both ways. What if you predict your opponent to switch out predicting your Encore?

these were added after inputs from megazard and grimoire, tho i agree i overlooked these and should've discussed with grim, i think i'll alter the one in ut a bit and remove the one in overview

edit for ^: i cant think of a way to alter it while removing any mention of prediction, so i'll just let it be and await your opinion on what to do with this one

• Affected by all forms of entry hazards and therefore can't function throughout the match You mean do its job multiple times correct?

yep

• Weather - Sets with Rain Dance or Sunny Day are usable, but since a slow U-Turn is preferable on such builds over Baton Pass, and Volbeat is chosen more often as it hits harder than Illumise. Though this makes Volbeat superior, Illumise is still usable Illumise has the same speed as Volbeat... Volbeat is only slightly superior in this regards as well

never mentioned speed of either, idk if you want me to tone down the "volbeat>illumise" even further here, for now i just made it "Though this makes Volbeat slightly superior,..."

• Entry hazard setters like Armaldo, which sets up Stealth Rock, and Roselia, which sets up Spikes or Toxic Spikes, are also good partners as Illumise causes many switches with Baton Pass It doesn't cause switches with BP, it causes them with Encore. Even so, hardly that often, as most people won't set up until Illumise is dead. Not really worth noting hazard users imo unless you can think of a relevant example that makes this differnet than with any other Pokemon.

dry passing does cause switches(i'll add encore), which is quite relevant in easily wearing down a supposed check to your own set up sweeper

**Chip Damage**: Illumise is affected by all form of entry hazards, and only has Leftovers for passive recovery. It's worn down even quickly if it gets hit by Knock Off Residual damage is standard on analyses

so? remove it/alter to emphasise just rock weakness?

 

[WhiteDMist]

should i explain in overview that volbeat has a stronger uturn, which weather teams prefer over bpass, which makes it better than illumise. It seems to much to mention in an overview for me, and i mention that in oo anyway

Just remove the weather mention here then.

these were added after inputs from megazard and grimoire, tho i agree i overlooked these and should've discussed with grim, i think i'll alter the one in ut a bit and remove the one in overview

edit for ^: i cant think of a way to alter it while removing any mention of prediction, so i'll just let it be and await your opinion on what to do with this one

yep
never mentioned speed of either, idk if you want me to tone down the "volbeat>illumise" even further here, for now i just made it "Though this makes Volbeat slightly superior,..." That's fine
dry passing does cause switches(i'll add encore), which is quite relevant in easily wearing down a supposed check to your own set up sweeper. It's the switch-in teammate that forces switches, on its own, Illumise causes more switches with Encore. You can mention its teammates forcing switches if you want to keep the mention of BP
so? remove it/alter to emphasise just rock weakness? Literally just rename it to Residual Damage...

 

[SparksBlade]

did all this

 

[SparksBlade]

rip double post
so WhiteDMist is there anything else to add/change/remove? also other qc's *.*