It has some viability, I've seen people top cut with it. However, I would really not recommend it. That set would probably look something like Protect / Waterfall / Crunch / Ice Fang, Adamant max attack max speed.
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VGC 2015: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer
- Thread starter idiotfrommars
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I'd say just go max speed, and max attack. Bisharp can't really survive too much anyways so hitting fast and hard is the way to go.
Yiggaman
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thanks but i just know there is some things i cant outspeed even at max and there are things i dont need max speed to outspeed them. im going the technical route lol
Im also thinking of using scary face on it from my salamence, just a thought tho
Keep in mind that bisharp is common enough that speed tying with them is probably worth it, especially since the bulk you gain is minimal.
If you are using Life Orb Bisharp, don't invest in bulk.
If you are using Focus Sash Bisharp, don't invest in bulk.
Other items are not nearly as common and not nearly as good. LO Bisharp + Sash Bisharp make up over 90% of Bisharp on Battle Spot, so if you're one of the people running standard Bisharp - don't invest in bulk.
I am some what confused about the championship points thing. My main thing I am confused is how do they already have over 300 points before national is over. I want to get in to VGC but if I have to go to lots of regionals to have a chance of going to world than I can't. I would be in master level. So yea need someone to please explain this to me.
Thanks
Thanks
Regionals and premier challenges are how you get a lot of points.
Nothing productive or viable. If it's Aerodactyl, just spam Rock Slide after supporting with Tailwind/Wide Guard. If it's Mega Aerodactyl, spam Rock Slide or Aerial Ace.
If it's not Aerodactyl, then it shouldn't be using Sky Drop.
Yiggaman
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should i run some def investment on aero?
Can't think of anything relevant that turns from a 2HKO to a 3HKO, etc. from bulk investment, so run 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed for a damage buff and better shot at OHKOing Talonflame after Intimidate, and just Sash it or Mega.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/vgc15-teambuilding-workshop.3537804/
That said, Umbreon is really quite fun in Doubles, I've used it there, along with a very similar mon in Mandibuzz to great success.
Terrakion and Heatran also work next to a Charizard Y.
The king of Char-Y has work in 5 minutes, so I'll get back to you.
Aegislash is not that great of a partner, from personal experience.
edit: Back <3
Char-Y needs a few important bases covered:
1) It does not matter what set you run, you ARE fucked by mega Khan. Very few run Return from my experience (I've seen literally 1 in the last month), and even with heavy bulk investment, jolly Return is a chance to KO. Double-Edge WILL kill you. Overheat KO's Khan, but only if you outrun it - which, since you share its Speed tier, is always a gamble. Ways to deal with this are Terrakion, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Mienshao, Gengar, Aegislash, and Venusaur (Fire+Grass Pledge).
2) Rock Slide is the 2nd most broken move in doubles, and Charizard-Y is absolutely fucked in every imaginable way by it. Wide Guard is the most direct answer, but you'll want to be able to *kill* common users, and you'll need something to switch in to it as well. Lando-T, Terrakion, TTar, Greninja (not even joking), Aerodactyl, Garchomp, Mienshao, Rhyperior, and Excadrill are pretty much all the common ones. Lando-T, Cresselia, Swampert, and Venusaur help.
3) Electric types. While many, many teams have an electric type, there's a very, very narrow variety of them. Thundurus-I and Zapdos dominate the selection - other electric types are Raichu, Pachirisu, and... no that's pretty much it. That said, Raichu pairs well with Char-Y - it turns Thundurus into a liability for your foe. Garchomp, Excadrill, Swampert, Golem, Rhyperior, and Gastrodon work well. Grass Knot Thundy is a dick though. Oh and Lando-T.
4) Opposing weather destroys Char-Y, mainly if you use Solarbeam. Auto-inducers are TTar, Obamasnow, and Toed, but there's a few tricky Rain Dance users like Thundy as well.
Terrakion and Lando-T handle TTar, Char-Y really gives no fuck about Abomasnow, and Toed can be a bit annoying but generally handled by Thundy, Raichu, Venusaur, Virizion, etc. Japan Sand is the main thing you're dealing with - Swampert adores TTar, special Mega Mence, and Excadrill.
5) Heatran > your life. You could lose an entire moveslot to HP Ground, or use Terrakion, Landog, Swampert, Gastrodon, Mienshao, or Skill Swap Cresselia.
Charizard *does* wall Heatran, though.
6) Mega Mence. Regardless of its set, if it has a STAB move, you're going to lose. Landog, Suicune, Heatran (HP Ice), Thundurus, Zapdos, Swampert, Rhyperior, Golem, and Regirock generally stomp it.
7) Talonflame 2HKO's you and walls (most) sets. Run Ancientpower, or use Terrakion, Cresselia, Heatran, or Rhyperior. Don't use Zapdos or Thundy - LO+Sun+STAB Flare Blitz hits really fucking hard.
8) Gyarados. Due to the possibility of Mega evolving, this is really hard to stop despite Sun weakening it. Electric types like Thundy, Zapdos, Raichu, Raikou, etc. help, and bulky Venusaur works well.Terrakion Rock Slide's non-mega Gyara, and CC's the Mega.
tl;dr Swampert is like, Char-Y's best friend ever, Terrakion is good, gyarados and Grass Knot Thundy are huge bitches. I can link my 1670+ Char-Y team if you want, it's built around it and shows a lot of what I'm talking about.
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Wow thanks for taking the time to post this ProjectTitan313 since Mega Charizard Y is honestly the only main Mega I haven't gotten use well from my time in the actual Battle Spot doubles ladder. Definitively will try out special Swampert as my Wide Guard user as like you said it screws over Japan Sand (Excadrill, T-Tar, and Mega Mence) and almost acts like a glue of sorts to handle most of these threat mentioned.
Here it is, forgot where I posted it. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sample-teams-for-vgc15.3526666/page-2#post-6252752
I just dropped Aegislash for Raichu. But that should explain the point of everything / help give an idea of how to support Megazard. There's other good partners, like Cress and Landog, that I haven't tried out yet, so feel free to deviate.
Pledges, don't use if you aren't running Venusaur, just use Overheat/Solarbeam on Char-Y and Scald / Muddy Water on Swampy.
Swampert just covers Rock / Electric / 95% of Char-Y's checks and counters. Char-Y + Landog + Cress, I very much want to try though.
Occasionally you see lightningrod rhydon next to char-y as well, as the sun reduces its water weakness and rhydon redirects electric attacks away from charY.
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Got a couple questions I'd like to ask...
1. How do people deal with Perish Trap? Strong STAB spread moves? Other than Mega Gengar and Goth as the trappers, what are the main users of Perish Song?
2. Are dual Megas worth running? Because usually unless it's a pledge (M-Venusaur/M-Zard team) you bring one or the other then you're down to 4 'mons to choose your other 3 'mons to bring into battle. What Megas fit well/are commonly run on a team together?
3. Are there any important 'mons I should be aware of that have been going down/up in usage? I've heard like Bisharp is going down, Milotic is more common now as the team's bulky water type over Suicune. Any others/others to consider when team building (particularly against these 'mons)?
1. How do people deal with Perish Trap? Strong STAB spread moves? Other than Mega Gengar and Goth as the trappers, what are the main users of Perish Song?
2. Are dual Megas worth running? Because usually unless it's a pledge (M-Venusaur/M-Zard team) you bring one or the other then you're down to 4 'mons to choose your other 3 'mons to bring into battle. What Megas fit well/are commonly run on a team together?
3. Are there any important 'mons I should be aware of that have been going down/up in usage? I've heard like Bisharp is going down, Milotic is more common now as the team's bulky water type over Suicune. Any others/others to consider when team building (particularly against these 'mons)?
1) the primary users of perish song are mega gengar itself, politoed, and azumarill (perish song azumarill is typically a sap sipper variant instead of huge power) perish trap is one of those things where it almost always comes down to technical gameplay; it punishes wasted turns very much so. the main points:
-ghosts are huge in the matchup. ghosts being able to freely switch in and out of shadow tag definitely lower the effectiveness of the perish song. ghosts are also immune to fake out, which is common from things like scrafty often seen on perish trap.
-playing around disable is key. oftentimes, m-gengar will use protect to scout a move and then disable it, leaving your pokemon unable to hit it with an appropriate super effective attack. this makes choice-locked pokemon like landorus-t and sylveon very volatile against disable as they can be left struggling while the timer is ticking down on perish song. when perish song is counting down, they'll often double protect as a means of stalling out a turn, so if possible, don't use the move that you want to avoid getting disabled that turn
-eject button will likely be on at least one pokemon, usually amoonguss, scrafty, or politoed. this allows gengar to switch out and use the eject button pokemon's superior bulk to pivot the attack while being able to switch right back in and maintain the trap
-amoonguss is very strong against it because it redirects disable and spore renders pokemon unable to protect in that matchup, as well as provide support
2) dual megas can be fine; it's usually best to have them compliment each other in terms of what they check. char-y and kangaskhan is fairly popular in japan because char-y beats aegislash and kangaskhan beats heatran, and so forth. another popular duo is m-mawile and m-venusaur.
3) for usage stats, just pay attention to pokemon's global link website, they have info on doubles stats and such. to give you a general idea, though, talonflame, terrakion, and bisharp are all on the decline, whereas things like cresselia, amoonguss, and gardevoir are gaining quite a bit of headway.
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Oh and Rhydon, Rhydon + Zard is sexy, I did that in VGC14.Occasionally you see lightningrod rhydon next to char-y as well, as the sun reduces its water weakness and rhydon redirects electric attacks away from charY.
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And yes I did completely forget Rotom H/W LOL I knew I was mssing something. I kinda rushed the post :P
Never seen a team with Raikou on RM. No idea why, just have not seen it. imo it's very viable, just uncommon.
1. You don't, Perish Song is literally uncounterable. Unless you want to run Soundproof Payback Bouffalant, or Soundproof Electrode with Taunt?
2. Mega Mence + Mega Metagross can work, and I've also seen Khan + Gardevoir. It's kind of a "two modes" type of deal - you usually bring Mega Mence + non-mega Metagross, or MegaGross and don't bring mence, etc. VenuZard I run myself, its really nice to have the versatility.
3) PGL's stats track seasons, you can see Thundy going up, Aegislash going down, Talonflame going down, Amoonguss going up, etc but only for Top 12. Anything below Top 12 they don't rank / display how much they get used :/
1. Identify it beforehand. Most teams aren't dedicated perish trap, and those are the hardest to deal with, but if someone is only running perish trap, a fast taunter does the trick. Attacking into the trapper on the perish song turn is big. Ghost types can switch out of the trap, too. Mostly taunt and powerful moves, however, since they can't protect all three turns. If you run Kangaskhan, for example, use PUP when you know they will protect, and then hit them with a +2 double edge. Don't use your strongest move right after they persih song, since they almost always go Perish>protect>disable>protect.
Politoed is a pretty common perish song user, since you can also use rain mode with him.
2. Usually, no. I ran it last format, but I haven't really seen it this format. I think Gyarados/Manectric has potential, since both work on their own and Manectric has lightningrod to help gyarados.
3. Talonflame's decrease is usage is one. I think teams have been getting more bulky as the format wears on, generally speaking (hence the transition from bisharp to milotic).
There's a live tournament every week or so that gives away free flawless legendaries, you can check it out here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...4-next-tournament-saturday-july-11th.3537229/
Other than that, SRing or trading is probably your best bet.
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