Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Senpai D.M]

Jellicent from S to A+: With the departure of Cobalion, the ability to click Knock Off or other Dark-type moves is generally much more safer as those pokemon would only have to fear like Virizion switching in. This means that Sneasel and Scrafty are going to rise further in usage and popularity. This is not really great for Jellicent as one of its main reason in S rank was its ability to counter Cobalion. With that gone and the possible rise of Dark-types, I just don't see Jellicent being the top tier pokemon it once was. Don't get me wrong, it is still a great defensive stallbreaker and one of the few bulky Water-types in the tier but just that it should be ranked lower now that Cobalion has left which is why A+ rank should be fine for it at the moment.

Tbh Cob leaving doesnt affect jelli. We will see other mons rise and Jelli will remain a solid stallbreaker / pivot. I also think its too early to have it drop lol. A mon I think will def rise will be m camerupt mentioned earlier, This thing gives stall balance even ho a lot of trouble. speed creep has begun to gain more usage where checks get 2ohkod lol. Emboar will gain more usage as mlix will still be p good I just cant see jelli dropping imo.

 

[Kurona]

Is the flavour text for New Pokémon Rank even correct anymore?

"Pokemon that are new to the RU tier and haven't been around long enough to correctly be listed go here, i'd like discussion on where to put these asap"

I know people shouldn't be using these as a big point of reference anyway but it seems odd that the description in the OP is completely contrary to what we actually want. Should probably be like "hold off on discussing these for a while before we can correctly discuss where to put them" or whatever

 

[EonX]

It may be too early for this, but I feel that:

Trevenant -> C+ | There is nothing that really stands out from Trevenant, bar its Attack stat, although it's held back by its Speed. With the Ghost-typing I guess it could be a Spinblocker, although on the Defensive side, there isn't much reason to be used over Gourgeist-XL, bar Harvest. Trevenant can also pull off some sets such Choice Band and Choice Scarf with Trick, although it mostly wants to stick with sets relating to Harvest such as Will-O-Wisp + 3 Attacks. Trevenant shouldn't even start close to B+ rank as suggested by BrandonBeast as Gourgeist can do most everything better defensively, and Exeggutor can do Sub Seed better with Harvest and Sleep Powder, really only leaving Trevenant to sub-optimal offensive sets, which are walled by Pokemon such as Drapion.

Don't know where Trev should go. Haven't had a chance to use it at all yet, but there are a few things I want to point out that I don't necessarily like about this post. First and foremost, Trev can run EQ pretty freely, so offensive sets (especially CB) are hardly walled by Drapion. Harvest is a terrible ability on Trevenant imo. Natural Cure is a godsend ability for a spinblocker. Whether you're using it for offense or defense, Natural Cure should be its ability every time. I mean, you get a psuedo-status immunity as a bulky mon with low Speed that's likely going to be helpful in every battle. How can you not benefit from that? May edit this with thoughts on other Pokemon, but I honestly haven't had a chance to play much since Coba left.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Tbh Cob leaving doesnt affect jelli. We will see other mons rise and Jelli will remain a solid stallbreaker / pivot. I also think its too early to have it drop lol. A mon I think will def rise will be m camerupt mentioned earlier, This thing gives stall balance even ho a lot of trouble. speed creep has begun to gain more usage where checks get 2ohkod lol. Emboar will gain more usage as mlix will still be p good I just cant see jelli dropping imo.

it's a little early tbh for people to be suggesting a drop, but I do think that Jelli's S-rank was solely earned on the threat of walling Cobalion while also being one of the single best balance partners for Coba, because no one wanted to click Knock Off and give Coba a +1.

Don't know where Trev should go. Haven't had a chance to use it at all yet, but there are a few things I want to point out that I don't necessarily like about this post. First and foremost, Trev can run EQ pretty freely, so offensive sets (especially CB) are hardly walled by Drapion. Harvest is a terrible ability on Trevenant imo. Natural Cure is a godsend ability for a spinblocker. Whether you're using it for offense or defense, Natural Cure should be its ability every time. I mean, you get a psuedo-status immunity as a bulky mon with low Speed that's likely going to be helpful in every battle. How can you not benefit from that? May edit this with thoughts on other Pokemon, but I honestly haven't had a chance to play much since Coba left.

Harvest Lum can also be useful on Trev alongside Rest on bulkier sets to avoid having to switch out, and Harvest Colbur gives it a better match up against Hitmonlee (though you should just be using Gourgeist at that point.) I agree that Harvest is worse than Natural Cure most of the time, but it's not useless.

 

[Choice Banned]

A ---> A+
With Cobalion gone, Durant is back to where it was before as a wallbreaker. It sits in a great speed tier, has multiple sets that work, and hits hard, even on resists. While it still has problems that it had before, like being easily beaten by Emboar, and Hustle missing at the worst possible times, Coba leaving makes Durant's job easier.

A+ ---> S
A more controversial nomination but I think Tyrantrum deserves S. It hits extremely hard even without CB, while it can patch up its average speed with Scarf. Has a good matchup against a lot of the meta, especially with Cobalion no longer being able to come in on a choiced STAB move and set up SD freely, so it can work as a revenge killer. It has enough bulk to take hits as well. Tyrantrum is amazing in the current meta, and on the level of the other S ranks, at least in my opinion.

A- ---> A/A+
Supporting this nomination, as both the Specs set and the Scarf set put in work, Specs tearing down many walls with a powerful Leaf Storm, and Scarf being a great revenge killer.

Stay A+
Doesn't face competition from Cobalion anymore with SD set, though other sets are outclassed by Tangrowth.

Also, what caused Magneton to drop to C+?

EDIT:
Another nomination

Unranked ---> C-
If Victreebel is ranked, than this deserves to be ranked too. Even outside of sun, Exeggutor is a great wallbreaker, but in sun, Exeggutor is great. Still has its flaws, but it at least deserves to be ranked.

 

[Amire]

Nominating Zangoose for B- or B rank. Zangoose is a hell of an underrated pokemont that is able to destroy most modern stall teams. Yes, it's base 90 speed is nowhere near perfect, and it's only viable set with Toxic Boost gets worn down quickly. It does well against most of the higher ranked mons here, and it does not need as much support as the other more or less viable C rank mons such as Scyther or Archeops. It's even powerful enough to even late game sweep faster, weakened mons with quick attack. I think B rank or at least B- rank is a lot more fitting for Zangoose.

Also nominating Mega Glalie to S rank. With Cobalion gone, Mega Glalie is more threatening than ever. It hits insanely hard with Double Edge/Explosion, reaches a great speed tier for RU and is both functioning very well as a hazard setter on a hyper offensive team, or as a heavy hitter on a bulkier team. It may (to some extent) be stopped by Mega Steelix or Alomomola, however Glalie is always able to gain momentum for the player using it, being able to taunt, set up spikes on or even explode to do insane damage on bulkier mons. I'd argue that Glalie is the best mega in the tier right now!

 

[ryan]

Don't most things that struggled with Cobalion also struggle with Mega Steelix, which should be even more popular now without Cobalion around? I wouldn't be so hasty to make major changes based on the loss of Cobalion only a day after it left because there's absolutely no way to know how the metagame will adjust.

 

[aVocado]

Don't most things that struggled with Cobalion also struggle with Mega Steelix, which should be even more popular now without Cobalion around? I wouldn't be so hasty to make major changes based on the loss of Cobalion only a day after it left because there's absolutely no way to know how the metagame will adjust.

Steelix isn't easy to slap on offense though, and has no recovery whatsoever while Cobalion was easy to put on any offense team, has good speed and offensive prowess, and the bulk to switch into Glalie easily, along with passive recovery and the ability to sweep. Steelix really lacks all of those things.

I agree it's too fast though. Cobalion wasn't the only thing holding Glalie back but it was the biggest restraint, possibly.

 

[Froggyboy]

Miltank to D/C-:
Keeping this short, because I want to spend time with my family for 4th of July. With Thick Fat it check/counters Glalie, Houndoom, Camerupt, Emboar(it is clicking Flare Blitz most of the time), Delphox, and Sneasel, while with its bulk it can check Tyrantrum, Durant, Sigilyph, Flygon, etc. And it can also opt for Sap Sipper to take on Tangrowth and Rotom-C. It is maybe not the best pick right now since Fighting types are popular, but still checks/counters a lot of things, can cripple them with T-Wave, and keep healthy throughout the match with Milk Drink. Overall I feel these niches are enough to justify a ranking in the D or C- category.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

A ---> A+
With Cobalion gone, Durant is back to where it was before as a wallbreaker. It sits in a great speed tier, has multiple sets that work, and hits hard, even on resists. While it still has problems that it had before, like being easily beaten by Emboar, and Hustle missing at the worst possible times, Coba leaving makes Durant's job easier.

A+ ---> S
A more controversial nomination but I think Tyrantrum deserves S. It hits extremely hard even without CB, while it can patch up its average speed with Scarf. Has a good matchup against a lot of the meta, especially with Cobalion no longer being able to come in on a choiced STAB move and set up SD freely, so it can work as a revenge killer. It has enough bulk to take hits as well. Tyrantrum is amazing in the current meta, and on the level of the other S ranks, at least in my opinion.

Can't say I agree with either of these. Durant's awful special bulk really is what holds it back from being that high on the rankings so provided that a special attacker outspeeds it, then it can be killed too easily. If you want to run the scarf set I've been seeing around (IMO pls don't run scarf Durant people) then you take a risk missing since no hone claws or Just don't hit nearly as hard if you run swarm. Tyrantrum I can understand slightly more but stuff like bronzong just prevent this thing from being S rank. I think A+ rank is the best that it deserves if anything.

 

[Froggyboy]

The thing is there are very little special attackers that can outspeed Durant without a Scarf. Accelgor and Jolteon are the only two special attackers that can outspeed it, and it's not like these things can switch in vs. a Durant, so pretty bad checks. And Scarf Durant is a perfectly fine set that is a good revenge-killer while mantaining a lot of power. And for Tyrantrum, just because a Pokemon has a counter doesn't mean they aren't S, plus Bronzong can't even switch into a banded set, so not really a solid counter.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

The thing is there are very little special attackers that can outspeed Durant without a Scarf. Accelgor and Jolteon are the only two special attackers that can outspeed it, and it's not like these things can switch in vs. a Durant, so pretty bad checks. And Scarf Durant is a perfectly fine set that is a good revenge-killer while mantaining a lot of power. And for Tyrantrum, just because a Pokemon has a counter doesn't mean they aren't S, plus Bronzong can't even switch into a banded set, so not really a solid counter.

What the hell can tyrantrum do to a bronzong?! If it's not strong jaw than fire fang/crunch are both pretty weak considering the fact that it doesn't get STAB on either of these.

 

[Karzahni14]

What are the alternatives to Cobalion, now that it has moved up to UU? I've been trying out Mega Steelix which is really strong but I'm not used to it yet. I've never used Durant but I see that it's A rank - is Durant a good replacement to Cobalion? Or would it be reasonable to just run Steel coverage on something else and use another Mega (outside of Mega Steelix my team does not have a Mega). Sorry if these are newbie questions, I just wanted some help with this.

 

[aoemica]

What the hell can tyrantrum do to a bronzong?! If it's not strong jaw than fire fang/crunch are both pretty weak considering the fact that it doesn't get STAB on either of these.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 168-198 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[tehy]

Just to bandwagon on for a moment, Choice Band Tyrantrum doesn't actually have any counters at all, even with just Head Smash + Outrage + (Earthquake / Superpower). Really, your best bet is physically defensive bronzong, and even that

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 124-147 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

isn't a great switch-in or anything (also, not a great mon in general).



i was about to contradict myself and post a totally irrelevant set that's still technically a counter but

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 184-217 (42.4 - 50.1%)

never mind...

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 146-172 (35.2 - 41.5%)

(252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 146-172 (35.2 - 41.5%)) (Rip haha)

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

Well never mind then. I suppose tyrantrum is indeed deserving of an S rank. (Time to add Eviolite Rhydon to the GOD tier on the viability rankings xD) I still can't agree with Durant going to A+ though.

 

[phantom]

I removed Gorebyss and Huntail from the rankings due to the new BP ban.

Also put Combusken to E until NU decides to free it. jaja

 

[The Leprechaun]

doesn't coilpass on huntail have some merit? I remember 49 made a set a while ago which utilised coilpass and had decent results

 

[MrAldo]

Huntail should definitely stay ranked due to coilpass being still a pretty decent niche to be honest, rip gorebyss (good riddance, yes!)

Will comment on the other nominations, just stating that huntail should still be ranked.

 

[phantom]

some massive updates:

jellicent down to a+
flygon up to s
glalie (mega) up to s
tyrantrum up to s
alomomola up to a+
sneasel up to a+
aromatisse down to a-
delphox up to a-
spiritomb up to b+
audino (mega) down to b-
skuntank down to c+
shiftry down to c+
exeggutor added to c
klinklang added to c
meowstic-m unranked
weezing down to c

also, there's something I feel that needs a bit of discussion:

scrafty down to a+ or stay in s rank?

 

[tmacbalanced]

Don't know where Trev should go. Haven't had a chance to use it at all yet, but there are a few things I want to point out that I don't necessarily like about this post. First and foremost, Trev can run EQ pretty freely, so offensive sets (especially CB) are hardly walled by Drapion. Harvest is a terrible ability on Trevenant imo. Natural Cure is a godsend ability for a spinblocker. Whether you're using it for offense or defense, Natural Cure should be its ability every time. I mean, you get a psuedo-status immunity as a bulky mon with low Speed that's likely going to be helpful in every battle. How can you not benefit from that? May edit this with thoughts on other Pokemon, but I honestly haven't had a chance to play much since Coba left.

So honestly I've been thinking about what you said about choice banned Trevenant with natural cure as it's ability & this is the best I could think of:
Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Claw
I myself think it's worth nominating to C rank because it can handle the slower part of the meta decently but, the stall set isn't that great in my opinion.
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 224-264 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 432-507 (99.7 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 184-218 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 294-348 (86.9 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I have tried out the stall harvest set for Trevenant & it honestly did not do much but offensive can honestly put in work. If you predict certain switches correctly, you could also use Dugtrio with this to trap & kill pokemon that would come in on this. This can honestly work well with pokemon that have trouble with slow bulky pokemon & can trick on what walls it or will-o-wisp pokemon that could cause trouble to your team. It's also nice how you can trick people into thinking you're the bulky stall set with will-o-wisp. It has flaws like, it doesn't bring up momentum sometimes, you have to do a lot of predicting, & honestly you'll need a pokemon on your team that can eat up knock-offs, as well as something that can take on fire/ice types. It can create 50-50s for rapid spinners, bulky stall pokemon, & physical fighting/normal type attackers though. Also, it has 208 speed to outspeed pokemon like offensive Rhyperior.

 

[P is For Penguin]

So honestly I've been thinking about what you said about choice banned Trevenant with natural cure as it's ability & this is the best I could think of:
Trevenant @ Choice Band
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
- Trick / Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Claw
I myself think it's worth nominating to C rank because it can handle the slower part of the meta decently but, the stall set isn't that great in my opinion.
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 224-264 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 432-507 (99.7 - 117%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 195-231 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 184-218 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Trevenant Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 294-348 (86.9 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I have tried out the stall harvest set for Trevenant & it honestly did not do much but offensive can honestly put in work. If you predict certain switches correctly, you could also use Dugtrio with this to trap & kill pokemon that would come in on this. This can honestly work well with pokemon that have trouble with slow bulky pokemon & can trick on what walls it or will-o-wisp pokemon that could cause trouble to your team. It's also nice how you can trick people into thinking you're the bulky stall set with will-o-wisp. It has flaws like, it doesn't bring up momentum sometimes, you have to do a lot of predicting, & honestly you'll need a pokemon on your team that can eat up knock-offs, as well as something that can take on fire/ice types. It can create 50-50s for rapid spinners, bulky stall pokemon, & physical fighting/normal type attackers though. Also, it has 208 speed to outspeed pokemon like offensive Rhyperior. Trevenant can also take on Seismitoad 1v1 since it can tank one ice beam.
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Ice Beam vs. 48 HP / 0 SpD Trevenant: 250-294 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

i would like to point out that seismitoad do not carry ice beam because it cannot learn it. I also think a trev set with rest + natural cure may be good if you havent tried it.

 

[tmacbalanced]

i would like to point out that seismitoad do not carry ice beam because it cannot learn it. I also think a trev set with rest + natural cure may be good if you havent tried it.

Oh my bad. When I pulled up a set for it on the showdown calc, it showed ice beam. I'll fix my post though, & thanks for letting me know.

 

[P is For Penguin]

Oh my bad. When I pulled up a set for it on the showdown calc, it showed ice beam. I'll fix my post though, & thanks for letting me know.

No prob dude, just curious which calc? None of them (at least the ru ones) have ice beam.

 

[MrAldo]

After seeing some discussions on trevenant and seeing it in action, I feel like trevenant could safely start either on B- or C+rank leaning more towards B- since I feel it offers really similar traits to gourgeist which is ranked on B- right now. Natural cure is a pretty amazing ability since it gives trevenant to be a pretty durable mon and it can even afford to run rest on choiced sets since with natural cure it can just wake up on switch which is a pretty nifty tool to have. Also, offensive trevenant is definitely the way to go since any set with leech seed on it is honestly ass when I can just run gourgeist and offensive gourgeist is pretty lackluster and thats where offensive trev shines and find a niche. Also, thats the reason I feel they should the share the same rank cause of the role similarities but they cant do it the same way the others can (gourgeist cant go offensive, trev shouldnt go defensive).

Now, there goes the question which detail is far more valuable (spinblocker with offensive presence vs spinblocker with outstanding physical bulk) but thats where I would like to spark some discussion.

Not the best mon but it is up for a decent start. B- seems like a reasonable start for it, OTR sets are quite cool with trev as well. Just to set an opinion to get it out of the New Pkmn rank or something. Not the best mon