Ladder Mix and Mega

[Imperator Romanum]

The funny thing is, you're kinda being a condescending prick rn, but you're wrong. I get that it's frail af, but gengar sits at a MUCH better speed tier, has far more power, and has a better typing, offensively and defensively. Pre-mega, gar only has 3 weaknesses (like mew, but it isn't weak to u-turn), 3 resistances (mew has two), and 3 immunities (remind me again how many mew has???).

Gyaradosite mew is trash, so please don't say it's better. It has 1 immunity, which is cool, but 2 weaknesses, one of which is double, and NO resistances (Not to mention, it doesn't get anything Gar doesn't except for roost), where as gar has 3 immunities, 1 resistance, and only 1 weakness. Yeah, what you said was just incredibly stupid.

Gar doesn't just have better stabs, it has incredible stabs. Paired w/ focus blast, they are literally unresisted. That, and it has 195 SpA. When you combine these two traits, there is nothing, bar Sablenite Blissey, that will wall it. Mew, on the other hand, is relatively weak, has good options for no guard, but can't really utilize them well, and is easily outsped by basically all go offense in this meta. 120 isn't that great. So, to say it's just better is absurd. Mew isn't S rank because any of its sets are incredible, it's S rank because it has so many. Frankly, none of them are really incredible. They're just all useful. Mew is a waste of your pidgeotite and doesn't deserve all the hype it's gotten, as its strategy w/ it is purely based on making sure haxy events occur as often as possible and trolling them to death.

Btw, don't bring up Weavile when it destroys mew too.

Edit: forgot to mention, gar ohkos any pixilate mon and outspeeds all ates too, which mew won't unless it runs max speed, which I assume, since you're just trying to troll them, you don't.

Don't make ot personal, if you think I'm beong condescending, pm me and I'll edit my post.

Never said that Gar was outclassed, its fine in A+ but its far from defining. Let me expand upon this;

Sitting at a much better speed tied; there's very little outspeeding 120 after it mega evolves, but yes. 130 is without a doubt better, but its not enough to make it S rank as Mew has more redeeming qualities making the slightly better speed tier not enough.

I fail to see how it matters that Gengars typing is better defensively, unless it comes in on an immunity its not going to be taking even resisted hits.

Soo... Ampharosote exists. It gives mew Dragon/Psychic, a great typing allowing it to check the behemoth called Keldeo, it's not forced to run Gyradosite to gain mold breaker. So i don't think Gengar does stallbreaker better than Mew, as mew is bulkier with recovery.

Sigh, you take this really personally. It's a forum about pokemon, please don't call people stupid over it.

Increndible stabs, yes. I agreed with you. But Mew has nasty plot and the bulk to set up with it, remind me again, what does more? Sludge Wave of a 195 base special attack, or Zap cannon on 165 at +2. Zap cannon, Blizzard and Focus blast is unresisted coverage regardless.

Nothing that'll wall it?
I'm on my phone right now, so I can't calc, but I'll assume.

Sablenite Tentacruel
Sablenite Goodra
Aggronite Florges (shaky)
Specially defensive Don
Specially/mixed defensive Hippo

Lol

Mew is weak? Mew is stronger than Charizard Y in OU and truly has zero counters as it sets up on Blissey. Mew has few options to utilize No guard? Hypnosis, Dynamic punch, Zap cannon, Blizzard and focus blast, take your pick. It can utilize them perfectly.

120 is slow? You realise mons need to have protect to outspeed it right? Speed boost turn 2, friend. Now tell me, how many thkngs are naturally faster than 120? And yeah, I know there's quite a few, like 12 or something. But not all of em are viable nor are they particullary effective in handling Mew.

Yes, you're right. Mew is S rank because of a plethora of its sets, all of which are amazing.

But Mew gives Gengar competition, and between that, being predictable and being destroyed by -ate it's just not S rank.

Lol mew isn't worth running Pidgeottite because its haxy? Mew is outclassed? Tell me something that gets amazing stats, zap cannon, blizzard, focys blast, hypnosis and Nasty plot and then we'll talk. Another mon that relies on hax is Klefki in AG, and that thing is being considered for S rank, so get out of here with that nonsense.


Oml, did you forget all the ates are used because of Extreme speed? Speed on Gengar doesn't even matter. And mew outspeeds them providing its mega evolved ;) never mind the fact that it actually has the ability to live something

 

[SpartanMalice]

This will likely happen later this week, as the meta continues to stabilize. I think wednesday would be a nice day for it, but that is just random - the point is I don't think any of us are truly ready yet.

Could give it more time. A Dragonite-less meta changes a few things, but now things are rising to counter Entei, Arcanine and Lucario instead which might change a few things around.

Also for the record I believe Mew is very versatile, that's as far as I'm gonna get into. It's unpredictable movepool and the ability to viably run most of the stones justifies its S rank in the current - though admittedly outdated rankings - imo.

 

[TheyCallMePM]

So here's a core I recently came up with and kinda like:

Lucario @ Altarianite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch
The team's Extremespeed user. with Altarianite added it gets loses its Steel typing to become a Fighting/Fairy type great attack boost from it as well as an equal boost to its Sp Atk for anyone who wants to make a mixed set, as well as +20 to its def. Ice Punch is there to deal with flying types since they are now super effective on him.

Heatran @ Latiasite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Ancient Power
- Lava Plume
- Flash Cannon
- Protect

Heatran is pretty much the E-Speed counter as it has the typing to resist to resist Fairy 4x, Flying 2x, and Ice 4x, and has moves to counter each type. Protect is there in case of surprise water or fighting type moves. Latiasite gives it small boosts to both of its defences, a +30 boost to its Sp Atk, and a much needed new ability: Levitate. With this, it's able to avoid its biggest weakness and also covers Gengars new ground weakness on this team.


Gengar @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hypnosis

Gengar with Pidgeotite is great because he can abuse Hypnosis and have 100% accuracy Focus Blasts and gets a huge boost to its Sp Atk (+65) and a +20 speed boost making it even harder to outspeed. With 359 Sp Atk and 350 speed before mega evolving, this thing hits like a truck when after it mega evolves. It's also conveniently able to resist and KO almost every Pixispeed pokemon in the meta.

The main issues with this core is that it doesn't have a water resistance and is also very prone to physical attacks, but overall I think it's a decently good core for this meta.

Also, if anyone has any suggestions on good teammates/sets for them, let me know

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

AllJokesAside, I never said you were stupid, but that post honestly was, as much of what you said was not well founded. That 10 points in speed is huge, as it lets you outspeed a lot of stuff you otherwise couldn't pre mega. And 120 really isn't that fast. That's basically average, when everything is running Spe boosting stones. 130, on the other hand, is basically the minimum for offensive mons, or at least to really be considered fast. Mew cracks under any offensive pressure, since it can't keep up w/ fast-paced teams. Manectite raikou laughs in its face, along w/ sceptilite stuff since dynamic punch is pitifully weak coming from Mew. And no, it's not more powerful than Zard Y in practice. Yes, if sun is gone, and your Zard is running flamethrower over fire blast, mew is more powerful (w/ psychic), but Zard is firing off sun-boosted fire blasts w/ only slightly less SpA, and so in reality deals far more damage. There isn't a single stone that mew could use that would give it the same kind of power. Not even red orb, and that's the closest it can get to leveling the playing field. My point about outspending the ates is that mew can't beat stuff that runs crunch +pixispeed, switch in or not, unless it's running max speed, but then it's pretty weak. And you won't have room for psychic, since you're running NP and roost. Gar can run max speed and still have power to spare, as its going to basically just be throwing its stabs around. And anything that resists it's stabs is weak to focus blast, so it will hit everything for AT LEAST neutral damage. Again, sablenite blissey walls it, but nothing else.

Mew is honestly not all your cracking it up to be. It is a decent option for any role, but not even a great one for most. It's stats are basically a blank slate that can be tailored to fit a team quite easily, but that's rarely enough in this meta. It's important that whatever you do, you do it VERY well, and mew, frankly, does not. It's S rank because it gives nothing away at team preview, not because any particular one of its sets is super good.

I'm not arguing that mew is bad, however, for offensive teams, gar can usually do just as well for a pidgeotite user, if not better.

 

[Shaq]

Hey,
first, I enjoy this oMotM pretty much-

Second, a Aggronited Suicune escaped my Magnet Pull.
I megaevolved Magnezone with Latiasite, but shouldnt MP cover that first turn?

Sometimes Im not sure how the Speed thats shown is calculated, especiallz upon mega evolving.
Is the speed gain or lose calc´d into the number thats shown?

Third mawilite nor medichamnite work on my Azumarill, why is that?

 

[Ransei]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to...

Aegislash
the great Pokemon that not many people have used in Mix and Mega yet!

Moves,Items,and an example set.

Moves that might be commonly used in the metagame.
Swords Dance
Shadow Sneak
Iron Head
King's Shield
Sacred Sword
Destiny Bond
Flash Cannon
Night Slash
Head Smash
Shadow Ball
Shadow Claw
Substitute
Toxic
Protect
Rock Slide
Facade
Brick Break
Autotomize
Aerial Ace
Hidden Power
Frustration
Return
Retaliate
Gyro Ball

Items
Weakness Policy
Life Orb
Leftovers
Assault Vest

Example set and info about it.

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head

This Aegislash set is one that checks many of the common Pokemon in this metagame. It was originally made to block and counter the common -ates, but I found it could do more than that, especially with Weakness Policy.

Weakness Policy is an item that makes the user raise its attack and special attack by 2 stages (2x) if it gets hit by a super effective move.

Its EVs (248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD) serve a good purpose. HP EVs are raised so that Aegislash could take in a lot more moves so it has a lot less of a chance of fainting. The reason Aegislash has 248 EVs instead of 252 is so that Aegislash could have an odd number HP. What's good about an odd number of HP is that users with one can survive damaging status like Burn, Poison, Leech Seed, and Curse longer.

Its adamant nature (+Atk -SpA) makes it able to do more damage because attack is raised.

Its moves also serve a great purpose in battle.

• King's Shield blocks opponents and can cut their attack in half if they used a move that makes contact with Aegislash in that turn.

• Shadow Sneak is a good priority move used to damage opponents if their Pokemon is about to faint or you're Pokemon has a chance to faint during that turn. It can also be used against Pokemon super effective to ghost for more damage.

• Sacred Sword is a move that cuts through threats that are weak to fighting like Lucario and Blissey. This move a satisfyingly good amount of damage to most Pokemon that gets hit by this. It can also be mainly used on Pokemon resistant to steel.

• Iron Head is a powerful STAB attack that does a lot of damage to foes that get hit by it and has a 30% chance of flinching. This move can be greatly used on Pokemon that are super effective or even regularly effective to steel.

General Statement
Aegislash is a top notch offensive/defensive Pokemon in Mix and Mega. Even though its Uber and megastones won't work on it, it's still a great Pokemon to use in the metagame. In fact, it's even better without holding a stone because of Stance Change. With Stance Change, it'd easily be able to switch from defense to offense without any trouble. I emboldened King's Shield because that's Aegislash's signature move and the move that helps most against threats in the metagame. King's Shield causes Aegislash to change from offensive to defensive and blocks attacks from opponent's Pokemon, cutting their attack in half if they make contact with Aegislash during that turn.

Moves and Items
Aegislash's greatest moves are on the list in the button up top. These moves help Aegislash survive though the metagame. Even though there are tons of great moves it can have, I want to talk about some of the unexpected moves on the list. Protect on Aegislash is there so that Aegislash can protect itself from possible status the opponent might give for that turn. King's Shield doesn't block status like Protect does. Facade is for if Aegislash does get status. This move does twice the amount of damage (at 140 power) if the user has a status. It's a bad idea to have Facade and Protect in the same Aegislash set. Toxic is for poisoning opponents. Because of Aegislash's defense, It is able to stall the opponent until the poison causes them to faint. Retaliate is a revenge move that doubles in power if it is used after the opponent faints one of the Pokemon on the user's team. Head Smash is a move that does a lot of damage to opponents and with Aegislash's offense, it could KO opponents easily. The only costs that come with this are recoil bad accuracy. The last 2 moves I want to talk about are Return and Frustration. Return and Frustration are high powered moves (if used with the right amount of happiness). These moves can be used against Pokemon that you are concerned about, that might be able to defensively take on the other attacks on Aegislash's set better than they can take on normal moves. The other moves that are on the list are also great and can be used for many purposes. Now, lets move on to items. Aegislash's best item is Weakness Policy. The item raises attack and special attack by 2 stages when it gets hit by a super effective move. Weakness Policy is good, but Aegislash can use more viable items too some examples of other viable items are Leftovers, Life Orb, and Assault Vest. Leftovers help heal Aegislash 1/16th of its max HP every turn from the damage it takes from attacks it has been hit by. Life Orb helps Aegislash's moves get 1.3x stronger but at the lost of losing 10% of HP for every turn Aegislash attacks. Now, if you want to get special defensive, you can use Assault Vest. Assault Vest raises Aegislash's Special Defense but at the cost of Aegislash only using offense moves.

Checks and Counters.
Aegislash checks many of the threats that comes in the metagame like Entei, Tornadus, and Noivern. Its defensive steel type plus its possible moves help it defeat them. It usually counters Pokemon like Blissey and Archeops due to its offense that tend to be weak to a lot of the commonly used Pokemon in the metagame. Aegislash can usually countered by a Pokemon that has enough offense to break through its defense, like Victini with Red Orb or Cameruptite.

Useful tips about Aegislash

• When you use Aegislash, be cautious about opponents that might have moves super effective moves for Aegislash. Especially ones that are fire type, including Will-o-Wisp. Some of you may be carrying Weakness Policy on Aegislash but it won't survive all super effective moves that land on it.

• It's always best to carry King's Shield on Aegislash in this metagame, regardless of what ever other moves you give it.

• Use King's Shield and then switch from Victini, any Pokemon you think would KO Aegislash faster than Aegislash could KO it, or any Pokemon you suspect might have Will-o-Wisp. Don't use King's Shield if you suspect your opponent having Will-o-Wisp rather than a move that would KO Aegislash.

Viability opinion
In my very own opinion, I'd give it an A on the viability rankings because it adapts and survives to the metagame well. The layout of its base stats (60/50/150/50/150/60 and 60/150/50/150/50/60) as well as its offensive and defensive movepool and typing is what makes Aegislash pretty much well adapt to this metagame. Everything else I explained above are also great reasons.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to...

Aegislash
the great Pokemon that not many people have used in Mix and Mega yet!

Moves,Items,and an example set.

Moves that might be commonly used in the metagame.
Swords Dance
Shadow Sneak
Iron Head
King's Shield
Sacred Sword
Destiny Bond
Flash Cannon
Night Slash
Head Smash
Shadow Ball
Shadow Claw
Substitute
Toxic
Protect
Rock Slide
Facade
Brick Break

Items
Weakness Policy
Life Orb
Leftovers
Assault Vest

Example set and info about it.

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head

This Aegislash set is one that checks many of the common Pokemon in this metagame. It was originally made to block and counter the common -ates, but I found it could do more than that, especially with Weakness Policy.

Weakness Policy is an item that makes the user raise its attack and special attack by 2 stages (2x) if it gets hit by a super effective move.

Its EVs (248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD) serve a good purpose. HP EVs are raised so that Aegislash could take in a lot more moves so it has a lot less of a chance of fainting. The reason Aegislash has 248 EVs instead of 252 is so that Aegislash could have an odd number HP. What's good about an odd number of HP is that users with one can survive damaging status like Burn, Poison, Leech Seed, and Curse longer.

Its adamant nature (+Atk -SpA) makes it able to do more damage because attack is raised.

Its moves also serve a great purpose in battle.

• King's Shield blocks opponents and can cut their attack in half if they used a move that makes contact with Aegislash in that turn.

• Shadow Sneak is a good priority move used to damage opponents if their Pokemon is about to faint or you're Pokemon has a chance to faint during that turn. It can also be used against Pokemon super effective to ghost for more damage.

• Sacred Sword is a move that cuts through threats that are weak to fighting like Lucario and Blissey. This move a satisfyingly good amount of damage to most Pokemon that gets hit by this. It can also be mainly used on Pokemon resistant to steel.

• Iron Head is a powerful STAB attack that does a lot of damage to foes that get hit by it and has a 30% chance of flinching. This move can be greatly used on Pokemon that are super effective or even regularly effective to steel.

General Statement
Aegislash is a top notch defensive Pokemon in Mix and Mega. Even though its Uber and megastones won't work on it, it's still a great Pokemon to use in the metagame. In fact, it's even better without holding a stone because of Stance Change. With Stance Change, it'd easily be able to switch from defense to offense without any trouble. I emboldened King's Shield because that's Aegislash's signature move and the move that helps most against threats in the metagame. King's Shield causes Aegislash to change from offensive to defensive and blocks attacks from opponent's Pokemon, cutting their attack in half if they make contact with Aegislash during that turn.

Checks and Counters.
Aegislash checks many of the threats that comes in the metagame like Entei, Tornadus, and Noivern. Its defensive steel type plus its possible moves help it defeat them. It usually counters Pokemon like Blissey and Archeops due to its offense that tend to be weak to a lot of the commonly used Pokemon in the metagame. Aegislash can usually countered by a Pokemon that has enough offense to break through its defense, like Victini with Red Orb or Cameruptite.

Useful tips about Aegislash

• When you use Aegislash, be cautious about opponents that might have moves super effective moves for Aegislash. Especially ones that are fire type, including Will-o-Wisp. Some of you may be carrying Weakness Policy on Aegislash but it won't survive all super effective moves that land on it.

• It's always best to carry King's Shield on Aegislash in this metagame, regardless of what ever other moves you give it.

• Use King's Shield and then switch from Victini, any Pokemon you think would KO Aegislash faster than Aegislash could KO it, or any Pokemon you suspect might have Will-o-Wisp. Don't use King's Shield if you suspect your opponent having Will-o-Wisp rather than a move that would KO Aegislash.

Viability opinion
In my very own opinion, I'd give it an A on the viability rankings because it adapts and survives to the metagame well. The layout of its base stats (60/50/150/50/150/60 and 60/150/50/150/50/60) as well as its offensive and defensive movepool and typing is what makes Aegislash pretty much well adapt to this metagame. Everything else I explained above are also great reasons.

I think the most interesting thing about aegislash is how anti-meta it can be. Despite being rather mediocre in ubers, it's got the tools it needs to really be effective here, despite being an ubers-based meta and not directly gaining anything. It can't use a stone, but it can check the ates really well, which is really important for offense. Its kind of like landorus, in a way; it is always good against a certain archetype, then you can adjust the moves to beat other stuff that troubles your team. It's too bad it doesn't get WoW+Recover, or it could be an even better addition to offensive teams to check the ates and break any walls that are troubling you, and just act as a really solid pivot as well. That'd be sweet.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Speaking of Anti-Meta... I wonder how good it would be with a Red Card to come in on a boosted sweep from like a Lucario. For instance:

+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario (Altarianite) Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 223-263 (68.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A Physically Defensive Set can survive even a +6 Lucario's Extreme Speed and with Red Card you'll send them away! Of course it is nearly neutered having potentially less than 20% health left, but that happens I guess. But, if you let an opposing Altarianite Lucario get to +6, you deserve losing that much health.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Speaking of Anti-Meta... I wonder how good it would be with a Red Card to come in on a boosted sweep from like a Lucario. For instance:

+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario (Altarianite) Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 223-263 (68.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A Physically Defensive Set can survive even a +6 Lucario's Extreme Speed and with Red Card you'll send them away! Of course it is nearly neutered having potentially less than 20% health left, but that happens I guess. But, if you let an opposing Altarianite Lucario get to +6, you deserve losing that much health.

That is the kind of creativity that I'm talking about- people
Don't seem to think about things like that, but they can work really well like, for example, nature power Tflame. People kinda pass over that kind of stuff, but in a fast-paced meta like this, it's often really helpful to have a sort of emergency break like that.

Btw, it's really great seeing how many people are running venusaurite Skarm- I'm such a trend-setter

 

[Pent]

Speaking of Anti-Meta... I wonder how good it would be with a Red Card to come in on a boosted sweep from like a Lucario. For instance:

+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario (Altarianite) Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 223-263 (68.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A Physically Defensive Set can survive even a +6 Lucario's Extreme Speed and with Red Card you'll send them away! Of course it is nearly neutered having potentially less than 20% health left, but that happens I guess. But, if you let an opposing Altarianite Lucario get to +6, you deserve losing that much health.

Why would you use ESpeed on an Aegislash, especially when fairy type AND +6. Wouldn't you just use EQ at that point? Also, if you can set up 3 SDs against an Aegislash, your opponent isn't the smartest. And, why would you run adamant Lucario? Ever think of what Aegislash can do to Lucario?

252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 289-341 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And King's Shield negates E-Speed since it makes contact.

js

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Why would you use ESpeed on an Aegislash, especially when fairy type AND +6. Wouldn't you just use EQ at that point? Also, if you can set up 3 SDs against an Aegislash, your opponent isn't the smartest. And, why would you run adamant Lucario? Ever think of what Aegislash can do to Lucario?

252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 289-341 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And King's Shield negates E-Speed since it makes contact.

js

That's not against altarianite luc though.

Anyways, What his set does is it lets you switch in, avoid the ohko, and stop their sweep so you don't lose. Kinda like Twave thundy

 

[Doctor Nadus-T]

Mismagius finally gets the Ghost/Fairy typing some people (myself included) wanted!

Mismagius's stats go from 60/60/60/105/105/105 to 60/100/80/145/105/105 and it trades its Ground immunity from Levitate for neutrality to Sucker Punch/Pursuit and near unresisted STAB coverage.

Shadow Ball + Pixilate Hyper Voice provide powerful coverage only resisted by Normal/Steel, Normal/Poison, or Normal/Fire. This potent coverage is backed up by access to Nasty Plot (or CM), Substitute, and decent support options in Taunt, TWave, WoW, Toxic, and even Memento/Destiny Bond if you're that desperate.
The new 100 Atk could even go to use with Mismagius's access to Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, and (now STAB) Return.

Unfortunately 105 Speed is hardly anything to write home about and while it does have 3 immunities to common offensive types (Dragon, Fighting, Normal or Ground, Fighting, Normal before Mega) it only gets a resist to Bug which isn't fantastic except for stopping people breaking Subs with U-Turn.

 

[MattL]

I think that some people are forgetting you can use Ubers in this meta (I did for a little bit). Standard Life Orb E-Killer (with Stone Edge; Shadow Claw is not as useful here as mons like Giratina or Arceus-Ghost are extremely rare) is still insanely potent, especially with Wish or Healing Wish support. It's faster than basically every -ate speeder, even after the possible stone boost, and is undoubtedly one of the best mons (obviously lol, but not enough people use it).

CB Talonflame is also one of the best mons. The meta is so offensive and I haven't been seeing as many flying resists or Defoggers as I thought I would. This thing OHKOs a good number of common Pideotite users and basically every Lopunnite, Mewtwonite-X, and Diancite mon. Resists Pixiespeed and Adamant is still faster than most things that use +1 Priority moves even with a stone boost.

When you're reading through this thread, don't focus on stealing sets. Focus on beating them (E-Killer and CB Talon each beat a large chuck of sets posted in this thread) because everyone else steals them.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I think that some people are forgetting you can use Ubers in this meta (I did for a little bit). Standard Life Orb E-Killer (with Stone Edge; Shadow Claw is not as useful here as mons like Giratina or Arceus-Ghost are extremely rare) is still insanely potent, especially with Wish or Healing Wish support. It's faster than basically every -ate speeder, even after the possible stone boost, and is undoubtedly one of the best mons (obviously lol, but not enough people use it).

CB Talonflame is also one of the best mons. The meta is so offensive and I haven't been seeing as many flying resists or Defoggers as I thought I would. This thing OHKOs a good number of common Pideotite users and basically every Lopunnite, Mewtwonite-X, and Diancite mon. Resists Pixiespeed and Adamant is still faster than most things that use +1 Priority moves even with a stone boost.

When you're reading through this thread, don't focus on stealing sets. Focus on beating them (E-Killer and CB Talon each beat a large chuck of sets posted in this thread) because everyone else steals them.

Or don't, considering I posted a bunch of them... Lol, honestly tho, I feel like CB Tflame is basically outclassed by entei, as 126 isn't actually that fast in this meta, so Tflame definitely wants a jolly nature, and jolly Tflames power is essentially the exact same as entei, but it has recoil w/ that. And entei has +2 priority, so it really takes the cake here. And entei has sacred fire for secondary stab, though it is a lot slower. However, your point is well received; it's not always about using sets that are obviously insanely good, but sets that work well in the meta.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

MattL, idk what happened to your post (must have deleted it for some reason), but I just wanted to say that birdspam is VERY effective, and I have been using a modified version quite a lot. It stuggles against defensive cores tho, especially those w/ mola. That thing is a terror to face. It's physical bulk is insane, it has nice water typing, and it spreads scalds around like a nightmare.

Edit: speaking of which: can you guys give me any suggestions as to how to beat sablenite bliss + slowbronite mola? I've run into it a lot, and it's given me some serious trouble.

 

[Nmone]

MattL, idk what happened to your post (must have deleted it for some reason), but I just wanted to say that birdspam is VERY effective, and I have been using a modified version quite a lot. It stuggles against defensive cores tho, especially those w/ mola. That thing is a terror to face. It's physical bulk is insane, it has nice water typing, and it spreads scalds around like a nightmare.

Edit: speaking of which: can you guys give me any suggestions as to how to beat sablenite bliss + slowbronite mola? I've run into it a lot, and it's given me some serious trouble.

Msnaphy Absolite tbh. Sense phy can literally set up and break through bliss, mola can't do anything at all(unless youre ballsy&sorta retarded to fish for a burn w/scald). But actually, any Boosting Physical attacker can overwhelm Both MolaBliss.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Msnaphy Absolite tbh. Sense phy can literally set up and break through bliss, mola can't do anything at all(unless youre ballsy&sorta retarded to fish for a burn w/scald). But actually, any Boosting Physical attacker can overwhelm Both MolaBliss.

Yeah, the only problem is the scald burn is scary, and mola is pretty fat. +2 luc CC only does about 40%, iirc. Obviously it's not the most powerful, but it's still pretty strong at +2. Manaphy is a great point though, idk how I missed that.

 

[Shachaawaq]

Why would you use ESpeed on an Aegislash, especially when fairy type AND +6. Wouldn't you just use EQ at that point? Also, if you can set up 3 SDs against an Aegislash, your opponent isn't the smartest. And, why would you run adamant Lucario? Ever think of what Aegislash can do to Lucario?

252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 289-341 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And King's Shield negates E-Speed since it makes contact.

js

To be fair, most priority (ab)users run an Attack-boosting nature (Sp Atk if Vacuum Wave Lucario), since the speed isn't necessary most of the time. This allows for as much damage output as possible; plus, if you're taking that scenario into account, Lucario will have been switched out already due to Red Card having phazed it, preventing Sacred Sword from being used on it in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that when you post a counterstrike with Aegislash, use the same set used to block the Extreme Speed. Otherwise, you're taking it out of context. But... since I'm a nice guy, I'll go ahead and reiterate it (using the counterstrike scenario, excluding Red Card for now):

Defensive 'Slash:
+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 149-175 (45.9 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 202-238 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive 'Slash:
+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 194-228 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 260-308 (92.5 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

I dunno if it's just me, but I have a feeling some other Lucario users run Earthquake on their sets now that Dragonite is less than an issue as Entei is now, so it'll be smacking Aegislash hard either way.

 

[MattL]

Edit: speaking of which: can you guys give me any suggestions as to how to beat sablenite bliss + slowbronite mola? I've run into it a lot, and it's given me some serious trouble.

Superpower + Thunderbolt Lopunnite Thundurus. Mewtwonite-X has a similar effect but you want Lopunnite because of the crucial speed tier, mainly (and Scrappy allows you to have U-turn instead of Crunch, which is great for something that forces so many switches).

Also, I had the calcs wrong; I forgot to add a Flying typing to Entei in them. I basically only use Brave Bird on CB Talon so most of the time Adamant is way better, but you're right that Pinsirite Entei is better overall. I wouldn't quite say it outclasses Talon though because Adamant Band Talon is a decent amount stronger.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Superpower + Thunderbolt Lopunnite Thundurus. Mewtwonite-X has a similar effect but you want Lopunnite because of the crucial speed tier, mainly (and Scrappy allows you to have U-turn instead of Crunch, which is great for something that forces so many switches).

Also, I had the calcs wrong; I forgot to add a Flying typing to Entei in them. I basically only use Brave Bird on CB Talon so most of the time Adamant is way better, but you're right that Pinsirite Entei is better overall. I wouldn't quite say it outclasses Talon though because Adamant Band Talon is a decent amount stronger.

That's honestly an awesome set- probably my favorite for breaking up that core actually, thanks! And when I said entei outclassed it, I didn't mean in every regard- Tflame def has quite a bit going for it, I just meant it's better for the most part. And possibly it's best trait is that in OU people are crazy prepared for it, whereas here they aren't.

Anyways, I think I'm seriously going to try out that thundy set/ it looks perfect!

To be fair, most priority (ab)users run an Attack-boosting nature (Sp Atk if Vacuum Wave Lucario), since the speed isn't necessary most of the time. This allows for as much damage output as possible; plus, if you're taking that scenario into account, Lucario will have been switched out already due to Red Card having phazed it, preventing Sacred Sword from being used on it in the first place.

Also, keep in mind that when you post a counterstrike with Aegislash, use the same set used to block the Extreme Speed. Otherwise, you're taking it out of context. But... since I'm a nice guy, I'll go ahead and reiterate it (using the counterstrike scenario, excluding Red Card for now):

Defensive 'Slash:
+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 149-175 (45.9 - 54%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 202-238 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive 'Slash:
+6 252+ Atk Pixilate Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 194-228 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 260-308 (92.5 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

I dunno if it's just me, but I have a feeling some other Lucario users run Earthquake on their sets now that Dragonite is less than an issue as Entei is now, so it'll be smacking Aegislash hard either way.

Actually, that's not really true about most running adamant- luc def wants jolly so it can outspeed adamant atespeeds, especially because entei, the next best m, has to run adamant, so a jolly nature will let you always outspeed it (so long as you are using the same stone)

 

[Doctor Nadus-T]

Ditto keeps moves after Mega Evolving.


EDIT: Putting an Orb on Ditto prevents Imposter triggering but using Transform after Orb just toggles Sun/Rain off (not changing the ability though), keeps the stats, but changes moves + typing

 

[Shachaawaq]

Actually, that's not really true about most running adamant- luc def wants jolly so it can outspeed adamant atespeeds, especially because entei, the next best m, has to run adamant, so a jolly nature will let you always outspeed it (so long as you are using the same stone)

... I keep forgetting Extreme Speed Entei are Adamant-locked. Truth is, I've never used an Extreme Speed Entei... ever... even though I clearly have one in my HG with which I've not played in eons... (Thank you for clearing that up.)

EDIT: Actually, that also isn't true, since I've done some breeding for Tutor Moves and Defog a couple times past, notably Skarmory, Hitmontop, and Empoleon; and RNG'd a Latias out of desperation (don't ask why).

... OK, I'M GUILTY! I wanted a Defog one sooooo baaaaaaaaaaaad! ;_;

 

[Bisharbash]

This bad boy has picked off more Heatrans in this OM than I can count.

Excadrill @ Pinsirite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin/Double-Edge/Frustration
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect/Double-Edge/Frustration

Mold breaker allows his earthquake to nail Lati@site users, and he can lay down stealth rocks through magic bounce. Protect before mega-evolving can scout the close combat off a Lopunnite Staraptor or Landorus-T, which can usually be picked off next turn with an earthquake (or you can just go ballsdeep and use an aerilate-boosted attack right away). The change in typing is just fantastic for Exca defensively.

Thoughts?

 

[OrdA]

Since most teams exclusively use red orb users for their water type switch ins, I've been having some success with HP Ground water types (Manaphy and Keldeo).

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 346-408 (101.4 - 119.6%)

Edit: The Calcs are for Absolite Manaphy.

Also, will-o-wisp is really good on fire types, since it cripples blue orb switch ins like Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Scizor. (Heavy Rain will only stop damaging moves.)

---

This format's been a lot of fun so far, because there's such a huge amount of new sets to discover. :]

 

[Bisharbash]

Also, I really enjoy this little beast as a late game sweeper

Crobat @ Metagrossite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Cross Poison
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Checks the hell out of altarianite users like salamence and noivern, can serve as a great half of a volt/turn combo as well.