Kangaskhan [QC 1/3]

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ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
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first analysis yay (spreads are courtesy of KyleCole)


[OVERVIEW]

* Kangaskhan is physically very strong, because of her 125 base attack, paired together with Parental Bond, that boosts Kangaskhan's attack by 1.5x.
* Has a fairly good amount of bulk with 105/100/100.
* Kangaskhan has a base speed of 100, which isn't really phenomonal anymore with major threats with things like Mega-Diancie, Mega-Metagross, Keldeo and Terrakion running around.
* Kangaskhan can get a free turn with the move Fake Out, which is incredibly useful. Kangaskhan also has a good movepool to choose from, with great STAB attacks in Return and Double-Edge.
* Kangaskhan's Fake Out actually does a good amount of damage to frailer and speedier Pokemons, such as Blaziken, Deoxys-Attack, Weavile and Talonflame.
* Kangaskhan's ability Parental Bond is very useful, you can use a move like Power-Up Punch to get to +2 attack. Parental Bond is basically a free Choice Band that delivers extra powers in form of a second hit, allowing you to break Sashes and Substitutes from Pokemons such as Breloom and Deoxys-Attack.
* Due to Kangaskhan's typing, it has no weaknesses outside of Fighting types. This can work positively, as it doesn't take many super effective hits, but Kangaskhan also is unable to tank most other damage from other heavy hitting Pokemon.
* Kangaskhan has a relatively uncommon immunity to Ghost-types, which is pretty much useless as Aegislash can just put up a Substitute up against it. Most other Ghost-types carry a move like Will-o-Wisp to annoy your Kangaskhan.
* A versatile Pokemon that is able to play on many different playing styles, such as hyper offense and bulky offense.

[SET]
name: Power-Up Punch
move 1: Fake Out / Protect
move 2: Return / Double-Edge
move 3: Power-Up Punch
move 4: Sucker Punch
ability: Scrappy / Inner Focus
item: Kangaskhanite
evs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
* If you're using Kangaskhan as a "sweeper" then Protect is a very important move, because Protect offers the ability to stall out turns of Tailwind and Trick Room, as well as being able to block Status and other moves.
* Fake Out is perhaps the most important move that Kangaskhan runs, as the free turn it gets while flinching makes it safe for Kangaskhan to evolve. It is also a great utility move because it makes it easier for your partner to set up or maybe even attack.
* Return is generally the best move that Kangaskhan has, it hits from a 102 BP STAB attack with no drawback.
* You can use Double-Edge for the extra damage that it offers. Be careful though, the major drawback is that you'll be able to get killed much easier due to the recoil.
* Power-Up Punch is nice chip damage, especially when you're certain that you're going to be able to kill the opposing Pokemon. Obviously it hits twice, getting your Kangaskhan to a +2 attack stat, which lets it pass through burns and intimidates.
* Sucker Punch is also a very important move for Kangaskhan. Especially while playing mind games, using Sucker Punch can be bagging you the win at times. It's also your only real way to hit Ghost-types. Even though this is a very important move, it is also very predictable at the same time, allowing your opponent to get a free switch, Tailwind/Trick Room and maybe Substitute.

Set Details
========
* Scrappy makes it so you can hit Ghost-types such as Aegislash and Gengar, while Inner Focus makes you immune to Fake Outs from other Kangaskhans, Weaviles etc.
* Obviously you're running Kangaskhanite, as Kangaskhan has no use outside of its Mega-forme.
* The EV spread is made so you can deal as much damage possible.
* If you're using Adamant, you will be outsped by Timid/Jolly Pokemon with 100 base speed, however you'll be able to do a much better amount of damage.
* Even though you'll be outsped by Mega-Charizard-Y, Mega-Gardevoir and Excadrill if you decide to run Adamant, you still will live their attacks and do tons of damage with Return or Double-Edge.

Usage Tips
========
* Kangaskhan can be used both in the early game to build up momentum, or late-game to sweep through weakened teams.
* Fake Out is a great move to pressure your opponent with, as it forces your opponent to make more risky plays such as using Quick Guard, or Protecting. It obviously can also be used to help your other partner setup.
* Even though Sucker Punch is a strong move, using it will be a coinflip all the time. Your opponent might be able to predict it, and instead of attacking, getting a free switch or set up. Thus if you're using Sucker Punch, it is highly recommended to weigh out the risks and rewards.
* Return and Double-Edge are the most effective moves you have, you should basically always use it unless you are unable to, or when you're able to use Power-Up Punch effectively. Basically nothing in the metagame is able to live a +2 Kangaskhan attack.
* You can also use Power-Up Punch on your teammate if you're predicting the double Protect.
* You do not always have to mega-evolve immediately, you can also Fake Out the opponent's ghost-type due to the Scrappy ability to break Gengar's Sash, and stopping Chandelure from using Trick Room.
* Another reason to not mega-evolve immediately is because of your other ability: Inner Focus. You can block moves like Fake Out this way.
* Using a more bulky set works best in a team that has a lot of speed control, making it very effective to run a bulky Kangaskhan in Tailwind or even Trick Room.
* It is typically safer to double target a Gengar with Scrappy Fake Out than to have Kangaskhan mega-evolve and Sucker Punch in that turn, because both Gengar variants, mega and non-mega, will typically carry Will-O-Wisp.
* However, don't go out of your way to keep Kangaskhan in his non-mega form throughout the game just so you can pull this off later in the game. Only stay non-mega when you're completely sure that you will be able to pull off the play.

Team Options
========
* Kangaskhan fits excellently on most teambuilds, even though sometimes another mega is better.
* Kangaskhan is even more scary under Tailwind, so Pokemon that can set it up properly such as Suicune, Talonflame and Hydreigon are great additions.
* Redirectors such as Amoonguss, Jirachi and Togekiss are able to redirect Will-O-Wisps, Thunder Waves and Spores from other Pokemon, and even giving Kangaskhan the opportunity to set up Power-Up Punches. Togekiss helps versus opposing Keldeos and it can provide Tailwind, which is effective for threats like Mega-Metagross and Mega-Diancie.
* Considering Kangaskhan isn't able to hit Ghost-types reliably and because it doesn't like Intimidaters coming on the field, Bisharp is a great teammate, because it is able to hit ghost-types with Knock Off and is very threatening once it gets to +1.
* Talonflame is a great teammate to clear up opposing Fighting-types and Amoonguss with a strong Brave Bird.
* Ground- or Fighting-types such as Landorus-Therian and Conkeldurr are good teammates because they beat Rock-types and Steel-types that Kangaskhan normally doesn't beat.
* Fire-types such as Talonflame and Volcarona are good partners because they get rid of Steel-types too. Volcarona actually provides a lot of support for Kangaskhan with Rage Powder, resisting Fighting-type attacks and possibly Will-o-Wisp.
* Sylveon and Azumarill are great teammates because they can defeat Fighting-types with their Fairy-typed attacks too. These do also work on Trick Room.
* If you use Kangaskhan on Trick Room you could use Jellicent and Gourgeist-Super as Trick Room setters due to their immunity to Fighting-type attacks.
* Psychic-types such as Cresselia and Reuniclus work too.

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Double-Edge / Return
move 3: Seismic Toss / Low Kick
move 4: Sucker Punch
ability: Scrappy / Inner Focus
item: Kangaskhanite
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
* Fake Out can offer a lot of pressure, as the free turn you get makes it so you can Mega-evolve without too many problems
* Return will be your main attack, due to the STAB you have on it, and the fact that it works really well with Parental Bond.
* A different option for Return is Double-Edge, which does a lot more damage in return for a little bit of recoil. Double-Edge is an incredibly powerful move which can shut down even the most notable tanks in the metagame.
* Seismic Toss is a really useful attacking move, considering even if you will get intimidated or burned you will do 200 static damage, which is a 2HKO on most opponents.
* Low Kick takes down threats such as Heatran, opposing Kangaskhan and Kyurem-Black which otherwise would be able to live more hits.
* Facade is a very strong move once you get burned or paralyzed, possibly by an opposing Thundurus, which you will likely be able to kill with Facade.
* Sucker Punch is also a very important move for Kangaskhan. Especially while playing mind games, using Sucker Punch can be bagging you the win at times. It's also your only real way to hit Ghost-types. Even though this is a very important move, it is also very predictable at the same time, allowing your opponent to get a free switch, Tailwind/Trick Room and maybe Substitute.

Set Details
========
* Before you Mega-evolve, you can hit Ghost-types with your Scrappy ability, which can catch off your opponent by surprise.
* Obviously you're running Kangaskhanite, as Kangaskhan has no use outside of its Mega-forme.
* The current EV spread allows you to do as much damage as possible, considering you're an All-out Attacker.
* Adamant allows you to do more damage, while a Jolly nature allows you to speed tie with other Jolly or Timid base 100 speed opponents.
* You can also use 200 HP / 200 Atk / 108 Spe as a bulky spread with an Adamant Nature, which lives - 1 Life Orb Terrakion's Close Combat, in order to kill it with Low Kick.

Usage Tips
========
* Bulky variants of Kangaskhan loves speed control in either Trick Room or Tailwind.
* With Seismic Toss, it doesn't really matter if you are burned, considering the attack drop doesn't affect Seismic Toss.
* The same goes for getting Intimidated.
* Facade doesn't do as much as Return or Double-Edge initially, so if you are able to switch-in onto Thunder Waves or Will-o-Wisps, you certainly should.
* Seismic Toss does not get affected by resistances, so you will do the same damage to your opponent no matter what type they are, even if they are Steel or Rock-types! Beware though, Ghost-types are still immune unless you make use of your ability Scrappy.
* Note that Low Kick does less damage to lighter targets, such as Scrafty, Diancie and Porygon.

Team Options
========
* Cresselia, Aromatisse and Jellicent are nice teammates considering they are generally able to get Trick Room up without too much trouble. Especially Cresselia is a good teammate, considering with Psyshock she can threaten opposing Fighting-types.
* Other Psychic typed Pokemon such as Latios and Deoxys-Attack are good teammates because they clear up other Fighting-types.
* Talonflame is a really good teammate considering it is able to set up Tailwind with ease, which benefits Kangaskhan a lot, and gets rid of Fighting-types who threaten Kangaskhan.
* As well as notable Fairy-types such as Sylveon, Diancie and Mega-Gardevoir.
* Ghost-types such as Gengar and Aegislash work well with Kangaskhan because they offer a fighting immunity but also address issues elsewhere, Aegislash is good for beating Trick Room and hitting Ghost-typed opponents, whereas Gengar can provide support with Will-O-Wisp and speed control with Icy Wind.
* Fire-types can switch into burns from opposing Pokemon. Good Fire-types are Talonflame, which again can provide Tailwind support, and Heatran that can easily switch into Will-o-Wisp and even benefit from it with Flash Fire.
* Bisharp is a good teammate because it beats Ghost-types such as Gengar and Aegislash and makes it difficult for Landorus-Therian to switch in because of Defiant.
* Outside of that, Dark-types are usually beneficial for Kangaskhan to beat Ghost-types that Kangaskhan can't hit outside of Sucker Punch. Good examples are Hydreigon and Scrafty.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============
* Frustration, obviously with 0 happiness, can be used to avoid opposing Mews transforming into your Kangaskhan.
* Seismic Toss is great if you want to be able to keep doing damage even though you're statused. You're doing a static 200 damage that is threatening for most Pokemon of the tier.
* You should only use Crunch if you're having major trouble with ghost-types, which you most of the time won't have. It's a good Pokémon to beat other bulky ghost-types or psychic-types such as Cresselia. However, you should note that it barely outdamages Double-Edge and Return. Crunch is only there really to not get completely shut down by Jellicent, Will-O-Wisp Gengar and to surprise Aegislash that spams Wide Guard.
* Ice Punch is a move that doesn't see much usage, the only reason to use it is to be able to kill opposing Landorus-Therians, which are the most common switch-in to Kangaskhan.
* You can use 84 HP / 172 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature, this lives a Superpower from Landorus-Therian that runs max Speed, and kills it in return with Ice Punch. Note that this spread is useless if you don't use Ice Punch!
* Facade is also an option you could use to lure in Pokemon that can burn you such as Rotom-Wash, to eventually destroy the opponent. Again, this works well with Bisharp because of Bisharp's ability Defiant making it more risky for opponents to switch-in their Intimidater.
* You could use Drain Punch too, but it's not really good. Usually it is outclassed by Power-Up Punch or Low Kick.
* Hammer Arm is a viable move to use on Trick Room, where Kangaskhan's Fake Out is appreciated.

Checks & Counters
=================

**Typing advantage**:
* Ghost types with Will-o-Wisp like Mega-Gengar, Sableye and Jellicent.
* Pokemon such as Aegislash, and other ghosts are simply able to wall most attacks from Kangaskhan's normal set, unless you're running the sub-optimal Crunch, or play the mind games with Sucker Punch well.
* Conkeldurr can heal off anything Kangaskhan can do to it with Drain Punch.
* Fighting types that can outspeed and OHKO Kangaskhan such as Mega-Gallade and Keldeo are very scary. Terrakion resists Kangaskhan's main attacking move, Return, making it even easier for Terrakion to OHKO your Kangaskhan.
* Steel-types such as Mega-Mawile resists Mega-Kangaskhan's primary STAB move and take mediocre damage from its coverage moves and retaliate with heavy-hitting STAB moves.
* Mega-Diancie, which is able to live a Double Edge and 2HKO with Diamond Storm.

**Intimidate and Status**:
* Kangaskhan hates getting intimidated, however you can negate part of that intimidate with Power-up Punch. You're also threatening to pokemon you simply outspeed such as Scrafty and Hitmontop, and to faster intimidators which can be pressured by Sucker Punch such as Mega-Manectric and Scarf Landorus-Therian.
* A less common Mega Pokemon, Mawile, is good at checking Kangaskhan pre-evolution, considering none of Kangaskhan's attacks do much damage. Also Mawile has the Intimidate ability, pre-evolution.
* Scarf Landorus-Therian carries Superpower which has a 31% chance to OHKO 4HP Kanga
* Kangaskhan has no reliable way of recovering from Burns, making it much harder to attack

**Miscellaneous**:
* Garchomp's Rough Skin, Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs and common Rocky Helmet users such as Amoonguss are threatening to Kangaskhan. Especially Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn can be very effective versus Kangaskhan, as it is essentially killing itself.
* Kangaskhan very rarely uses Protect because it's prone to being worn down really quickly, with a typing that doesn't allow many things it can switch on, and it can't deal with strong attackers at all.
* The fact that Kangaskhan uses single-target moves only means that redirection often can and will stop it. Mainly Jirachi is a problem for Kangaskhan due to it's typing.

**Strong Attackers**:
* Usually other strong Pokemon such as opposing Mega-Kangaskhan, Mega-Gardevoir and Mega-Diancie beat Kangaskhan due to it being prone to strong attacks.
 
Last edited:

SpaceBass

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I think there should be either a bulky set or a Low Kick / either D edge or S Toss on top of the standard PuP set. Other QC peoples thoughts?

Meloetta<3 I edited in the check, but I won't give 1/3 yet because I think there will be another set to add in and I'll want to check that too. Also, add in the things about Protect and Facade in qsns' post.

Overview:
  • Mention that P bond is a free Choice Band that delivers the extra power in the form of a second hit, allowing you to break sashes and subs. Move the part where you mention other moves like D edge / return / PuP to this point and lump it in with the P bond part. Don't mention Drain Punch
  • Base 100 is no longer that good of a speed tier with things like Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Keldeo and Terrakion running around
  • Ghost resist is pretty much useless as Aegislash can sub if it has it, and most ghosts have WoW / some form of support move that will annoy it
Set:
  • Slash Inner Focus imo, it's good for other Kangs. I see opposing Fake Out more than I do ghosts that I need to Fake Out
Moves:
  • PuP allows you to muscle past intimidate and burns with a +2 boost
  • Mention that Sucker Punch is very predictable and gives things chances to exploit this by using moves like Tailwind or Sub
Checks and Counters:
  • Conk can heal off anything Kang can do to it with Drain Punch
 
Last edited:
hello, not qc, but just giving some thoughts!

a bulky kanga with fake out/protect | return/d-edge | pup/low kick | sucker punch should definitely be a set, i've been playing with it a lot recently and its raw power is a lot more effective than jolly kangas in a fair amount of situations. works the best on teams with a lot of speed control (tw users, semi tr).

protect should be a slash behind fake out on the main set. if you're using kanga as a "sweeper," protect can be very handy.

facade should be in OO, it's not amazing but works well on certain types of teams. lures in burns from things like washtom and smacks the hell out of em. it's at its best with bisharp, making it a hell of a lot harder to get kangas attack down w/ intimidate.
 

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
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I think there should be either a bulky set or a Low Kick / either D edge or S Toss on top of the standard PuP set. Other QC peoples thoughts?

Meloetta<3 I edited in the check, but I won't give 1/3 yet because I think there will be another set to add in and I'll want to check that too. Also, add in the things about Protect and Facade in qsns' post.

Overview:
  • Mention that P bond is a free Choice Band that delivers the extra power in the form of a second hit, allowing you to break sashes and subs. Move the part where you mention other moves like D edge / return / PuP to this point and lump it in with the P bond part. Don't mention Drain Punch
  • Base 100 is no longer that good of a speed tier with things like Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Keldeo and Terrakion running around
  • Ghost resist is pretty much useless as Aegislash can sub if it has it, and most ghosts have WoW / some form of support move that will annoy it
Set:
  • Slash Inner Focus imo, it's good for other Kangs. I see opposing Fake Out more than I do ghosts that I need to Fake Out
Moves:
  • PuP allows you to muscle past intimidate and burns with a +2 boost
  • Mention that Sucker Punch is very predictable and gives things chances to exploit this by using moves like Tailwind or Sub
Checks and Counters:
  • Conk can heal off anything Kang can do to it with Drain Punch
edited it in
hello, not qc, but just giving some thoughts!

a bulky kanga with fake out/protect | return/d-edge | pup/low kick | sucker punch should definitely be a set, i've been playing with it a lot recently and its raw power is a lot more effective than jolly kangas in a fair amount of situations. works the best on teams with a lot of speed control (tw users, semi tr).

protect should be a slash behind fake out on the main set. if you're using kanga as a "sweeper," protect can be very handy.

facade should be in OO, it's not amazing but works well on certain types of teams. lures in burns from things like washtom and smacks the hell out of em. it's at its best with bisharp, making it a hell of a lot harder to get kangas attack down w/ intimidate.
idem
 

xzern

for sure
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
just an am check passing through

[Overview]
- mention kangaskhan's ability to break the sashes of pokemon that would normally harm it or your allies greatly, like deo-a or skymin. you kind of said this already but didnt give any really good examples
- also, mention that parental bond fake out does a really good job of doing sufficient damage to frail but powerful and speedy threats like blaziken, deo-a (fake out actually ohkos it), weavile, and talonflame.

[Physical Attacker Set]
- i dont really see any reason why you would want to run adamant over jolly. if you're investing all those evs into speed, then you might as well max out your speed stat. does adamant outspeed anything important? if it does, then you haven't made any mention of it from what i can tell

[Set Details]
- you dont really advocate adamant on the fast attacker set at all other than saying that without it, you cant outspeed certain things.
- i would imagine that adamant is important to some degree, so maybe run some calcs and see if it gets the ohko on something that jolly kang can't. if you cant find anything, then maybe just say that adamant can be used to do the most possible damage or something.
- there are certain questions that you need to answer when talking about your spread, like "does using jolly outspeed anything important in particular?" "why would you want to speed tie with this certain threat?" etc.
- furthermore, you havent really said anything about the evs on the bulky set help kangaskhan, except for "The Bulky Attacker Kangaskhan set lives a Keldeo Secret Sword and outspeeds Breloom.", which is in the wrong section. you should move this line from usage tips to set details.
- on both of your sets, you have inner focus slashed after scrappy, but i honestly think that scrappy is the better ability and that inner focus could go in OO. if you really advocate for this ability, however, then disregard this notion

[Usage Tips]
- mention that, before mega evolving, scrappy can be used to break nonmega gengar's sash and stop chandelure from using TR.
- its typically safer to double target a gengar with scrappy fake out than to have kangaskhan mega and sucker punch in that turn, because both gengar variants (mega and nonmega) typically carry will-o-wisp.
- however, don't go out of your way to keep kangaskhan nonmega'd throughout the game just so you can do this later in the match. only stay nonmega when you're 100% sure you can pull off a tricky play in that turn.

[Team Options]
- kang also works well under semi-tr because of its speed tier, so having cresselia as a teammate isnt that bad of an idea. not only can it set tr, but it can also put pressure on opposing fighting types

that's all i have to say. i hope my suggestions helped!
 

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
just an am check passing through

[Overview]
- mention kangaskhan's ability to break the sashes of pokemon that would normally harm it or your allies greatly, like deo-a or skymin. you kind of said this already but didnt give any really good examples
- also, mention that parental bond fake out does a really good job of doing sufficient damage to frail but powerful and speedy threats like blaziken, deo-a (fake out actually ohkos it), weavile, and talonflame.

[Physical Attacker Set]
- i dont really see any reason why you would want to run adamant over jolly. if you're investing all those evs into speed, then you might as well max out your speed stat. does adamant outspeed anything important? if it does, then you haven't made any mention of it from what i can tell

[Set Details]
- you dont really advocate adamant on the fast attacker set at all other than saying that without it, you cant outspeed certain things.
- i would imagine that adamant is important to some degree, so maybe run some calcs and see if it gets the ohko on something that jolly kang can't. if you cant find anything, then maybe just say that adamant can be used to do the most possible damage or something.
- there are certain questions that you need to answer when talking about your spread, like "does using jolly outspeed anything important in particular?" "why would you want to speed tie with this certain threat?" etc.
- furthermore, you havent really said anything about the evs on the bulky set help kangaskhan, except for "The Bulky Attacker Kangaskhan set lives a Keldeo Secret Sword and outspeeds Breloom.", which is in the wrong section. you should move this line from usage tips to set details.
- on both of your sets, you have inner focus slashed after scrappy, but i honestly think that scrappy is the better ability and that inner focus could go in OO. if you really advocate for this ability, however, then disregard this notion

[Usage Tips]
- mention that, before mega evolving, scrappy can be used to break nonmega gengar's sash and stop chandelure from using TR.
- its typically safer to double target a gengar with scrappy fake out than to have kangaskhan mega and sucker punch in that turn, because both gengar variants (mega and nonmega) typically carry will-o-wisp.
- however, don't go out of your way to keep kangaskhan nonmega'd throughout the game just so you can do this later in the match. only stay nonmega when you're 100% sure you can pull off a tricky play in that turn.

[Team Options]
- kang also works well under semi-tr because of its speed tier, so having cresselia as a teammate isnt that bad of an idea. not only can it set tr, but it can also put pressure on opposing fighting types

that's all i have to say. i hope my suggestions helped!
added it in, thanks :)
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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There were some good points, and some not so good points in an amcheck that I have deleted to avoid confusion.

I am reposting the good ones here:

In Team Options, add Togekiss alongside Jirachi, but Jirachi should still be listed first. Togekiss, while great for helping against Keldeo and the fact that it can also provide Tailwind, is far worse at helping against Mega Metagross and Mega Diancie. Jirachi should still probably be the preferred redirection partner.

You /could/ add Cresselia to the list of reasons to use Crunch in OO, but really it barely outdamages return/frustration and is notably weaker than double edee, albeit without recoil. Crunch is only there to not totally lose against Jellicent and WispGar and to catch off guard Aegislash who are spamming Wide Guard, for example. There's a reason Sucker Punch gets used over Crunch 99% of the time. Crunch should only really be in OO to say why not to use it, except in very narrow circumstances.

Low Kick is now on a main set so it should be out of OO.

Drain Punch can be mentioned in OO but honestly only to explain why it's not good. I've used it in the past and it is almost always better replaced by PuP or Low Kick. Hammer Arm even is more interesting than Drain Punch is (and so Hammer Arm should be added to OO), as it can be played on a TR team, where Kanga's Fake Out is appreciated.

The points on Checks and counters were good and I am copying those verbatim (with two added bold notes from me):
- you have two points on Ghost-types, and I'd definitely slide the second before the first so that priority Will-o-Wisp from Sableye and fast Will-o-Wisp from the likes of Mega Gengar are before Aegislash. While prankster or fast is nice bc it also stops Kanga from hitting the wisper's teammate, another slower wisp Ghost should be listed in this point, so do Jellicent. Speed is largely irrelevant in this scenario as Kanga never runs Crunch.
- the points about Fighting-types that outspeed and Terrakion can be put together, just mention that Terrakion also resists Double-Edge/Return.
- "* Steel-types such as Mega-Mawile and Mega-Scizor" Mega Scizor should not be mentioned, but you can keep Mawile if you're keeping this, you might as well flesh it out with "resist Mega Kangaskhan's primary STAB move and take mediocre damage from its coverage moves and retaliate with heavy-hitting STAB moves" or something to that affect. not trying to write this for you, but it's incomplete and while you did mention Mawile later, it's for Intimidate, which is a whole other (good) reason on its own.



This is still not a full check from me but I will hopefully get around to that soon. Kanga is a big mon.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
ok is it just me who thinks the 2 main sets to cover with the kang analysis should be:

-return
-pup
-sucker
-fo/protect

and

-fo
-double edge/facade
-stoss/low kick
-sucker/(crunch?)

first set is obvious

second set is attacker, double edge is used with stoss or facade with low kick so that either way u have burn insurance. second set can do a lot of shit but this seems like the best way to do it.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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My slight variation on what Stratos has said is

-fo
-double edge/return
-stoss/low kick/facade (in that order)
-sucker/NO CRUNCH

Either way, there definitely should not be PuP on the bulkier set, or you're just better off running the more offensive one
 

SpaceBass

☆ALOLA VERA420: FUKK AMOONGUS AND UR MOM
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I agree with what Bughouse said about the slash order on that set, Stoss is better than Facade because Intimidate is far easier to trigger on kang than burning it, and facade is dead weight against intim.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
see i just really disagree with bughouse's version
1) i think bulky kang without burn insurance is forced to play like a scared little bitch and shouldnt be used much
2) facade taking hte place of ur fighting move = no coverage
 

Bughouse

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see i just really disagree with bughouse's version
1) i think bulky kang without burn insurance is forced to play like a scared little bitch and shouldnt be used much
2) facade taking hte place of ur fighting move = no coverage
SToss is still the first slash?

I'm putting Low Kick ahead of Facade because tbh SToss is just a better Facade. Facade is way too reliant on actually getting burned. SToss helps you hit through intimidates and also do solid damage (plenty enough to nab plenty of KOs from previous damage) without recoil, assuming DEdge is chosen.

Low Kick is still there bc not every team necessarily needs the burn coverage. Fast Kanga can use Low Kick too, just fine. And there's not much of anything burning Kanga between the fast Kanga and bulky Kanga speed tiers tbh.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
ok i can agree with most of that except facade being slashed with ur fighting move is still terrible, it should be slashed with ur normal move

KyleCole pls help
 

Bughouse

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The hide tag is just c/pd from my Creative Sets thread post but here's the deal with Facade Kang: Basically you replace the normal move and keep PuP because this set is 100% dedicated to sweeping as opposed to the all purpose standard set. at +2 or +3 you aren't really missing any KOs between Facade and Return.
Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Protect / Fake Out
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Set Details
The EV spread and move slots (beside Facade of course) are all Standard. EVing Kangaskhan for KOs while burned or paralyzed is a pretty bad idea, the idea of this set is to commit to the role of Set-Up Sweeper which is why I have Protect > Fake Out. Fake Out is never bad, but on this set Protect is probably better. At +2 or +4, Facade is super powerful and you won't be missing many KOs that you would have with Frustration. The coverage from PuP and Sucker Punch help too, but keep in mind these attacks will be weakened when you're burned. Burn is probably the Status you should be keeping this set in on. It's not worth taking a paralysis for the Facade boost.

Calcs
Keep in mind that +2 Facade is the same strength as using Facade when burned. These calcs show that in many cases having Facade over Frustration makes no difference in terms of attack boosts needed to KO a threat.

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Mega Charizard Y: 415-490 (115.2 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 366-432 (103.9 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 346-409 (113.8 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade vs. 212 HP / 128 Def Thundurus: 415-490 (117.8 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
ok but that's not the bulky set we're talking about here, and I'm certainly not putting Facade on the first fast set.
 

kamikaze

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The ev spread is pretty interchangeable with whatever else you're using. The point is the moveset should use facade over return rather than facade over Pup
can second this. I personally use seismic toss with a standard kang spread, no fancy bulky spread.

The ev spread really is up to personal preference or team composition like kyle mentioned, and it doesnt really restrict the usage of facade or seismic toss to that specific set.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
the ev spread is immaterial, the question is "pup or no pup?"

i thought kyle used facade on pupless kang but i guess not

so the pup kang should be

-return
-pup
-sucker
-fo/protect

with facade in sc

and the other kang should be:

-fo
-de / (return?)
-stoss / lk
-sucker
 

Bughouse

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yes at this^

Although I'd still like Low Kick mentioned in set comments (or even slashed with pup) on the fast set.

But with that the sets and EVs should be right.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
no like both sets can be either fast or bulky lol

kami and mako use the second set fast
my darkrai team has the first set bulky

the point is pup or no pup is the dividing line, not EVs
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Edited this around a little bit, the important bits are now in working order so i'll look at the writing later today

I dont think any of my edits will be controversial except i changed the attacker set's spread to just 252s, i think the bulky version should be set details only tho if u have a problem with that we can certainly talk it out
 

shaian

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imo
* 84 HP / 172 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature, this lives a Superpower from Landorus-Therian that runs max Speed, and kills it in return with Ice Punch. Note that this spread is useless if you don't use Ice Punch!
should be in the Ice Punch OO bit since it's based entirely around a move that's not in the main bulky set

anyway add aegislash and gengar to team options (ghosts in general but these two work great with it from experience). they offer a fighting immunity which is the main part but also address issues with kanga elsewhere: aegislash is good for trick room, hitting ghosts, etc and gengar gets will o and can provide that speed control with icy wind amongst other things.

and in checks and counters that since it very rarely uses protect it's prone to being worn down really quickly (especially since its typing leaves very little it can switch in on) and it can't deal with strong attackers very well at all (ps i dont remember what tag this is, maybe miscellaneous or strong attackers?)

also in checks and counters, the fact that it's almost exclusively using single target moves means that redirection can and will often stop it from hitting what it wants
 

Pocket

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shaian said:
also in checks and counters, the fact that it's almost exclusively using single target moves means that redirection can and will often stop it from hitting what it wants
Yea, and mention Jirachi as one of the worst Follow Me users for Big Mama to break.
 
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