Ladder Balanced Hackmons

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Even if -ate breaks mega ray, It doesn't necessarily break anything else, and along with imposter chansey is one of the key things holding the metagame together. Don't forget Rayquaza has 180/180 attacking stats, which is utterly ridiculous and is probably going to overcentralize the metagame no matter what we do.
 
Even if -ate breaks mega ray, It doesn't necessarily break anything else, and along with imposter chansey is one of the key things holding the metagame together. Don't forget Rayquaza has 180/180 attacking stats, which is utterly ridiculous and is probably going to overcentralize the metagame no matter what we do.
Diancie has most of Rays power as an ate, and so does Kyu-B/W. Looking back on XY, it's easy to see -ate's centralization even without Mega Ray. I agree Mega Ray is prolly borked without ate, but I also foresee Diancie-Mega taking Mega Ray's place and being just as centralizing.
 
What?



Following in the tradition of the original Balanced Hackmons, BHXY is an experiment in the reduction of teambuilding restrictions. You can use any pokemon with any move with any item.
The current banlist and clauses as follows:
- OHKO moves
- Wonder Guard
- Huge Power
- Pure Power
- Shadow Tag
- Arena Trap
- Parental Bond
- Evasion Moves
- Endless Battle trolling
- Assist
- Chatter
- Ability Clause - No more than 2 of the same ability on your team.
- -Ate Clause - Only 1 instance of either Aerilate, Pixilate, or Refrigerate on your team.

Where?



Balanced Hackmons XY is hosted on Zarel's online competitive pokemon simulator Pokemon Showdown.


Metagame Analysis

As hackmons has less determining factors (only base stats and typing are relevent) than any other metagame, the few determining factors mean that it is much easier to determine which pokemon is "best" in its particular field and as a result, very few pokemon are truly usable in Hackmons (think ubers insofar as # of viable pokemon is concerned). Because of this, the variety in Hackmons comes less from what pokemon you use and more from what abilities and items you use on them.



Conclusion

Feel free to treat this like the last thread, as a base for chronicling the changes in the metagame and as a source of new ideas. I am incredibly proud to have been a part of Balanced Hackmons last gen and I hope that we can all work together to make BHXY just as, if not more fun.
Wow!! This is insane! :D I'm gonna get some epic reads out of this! :]
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
I honestly believe we should first instill a species clause, so we can add a little diversity into a tier that's saturated by Chansey, P-don and M-Ray.

As for banning the hoen trio, I do not believe they are outstandingly broken per say, just extremely overcentralizing. I believe that nothing should be done for now besides species clause, but if a change must be made then I would just impose restricting their viability by only letting them use in game mechanics and move sets.

Edit: just saw voting thread, will vote there
 
Hey guys, a bit new to the meta, completely new to the BH forums. So with the suspect going on, I would like to post my opinion. The first thing is on Mega Rayquaza. From what I have experienced so far, I honestly thing this thing is unhealthy for the BH metagame. The automatic power that this monster carries without having to set-up is absolutely frightening. The Aerilate ability also makes this thing extremely hard hitting. Extreme Speed off this thing is quite powerful having 156 power. (I think my math is right) This move has +2 priority also, making MRay a perfect late game cleaner. This thing is seen on almost every offensive team if not all of them. You are definitely forced to prepare for MRay every team or else you will simply get defeated. It is extremely overcentralizing and I would like to see it banned. The next subject is Primal Kyogre. Having one set that it uses (to my knowledge) it may not seems that threatening at all. You would think that if you prepare for that one set that would completely eliminate the threat. Well, that is not the case for Primal Kyogre. The thing with this set is, it is so ridiculously good that even knowing the set doesn't help you beat it. You definitely need some sort of check/counter to the sea beast or you will be getting beat by it. Even though it may seem I am for ban on this, I really am torn. I can see why people want it gone, but I can also see why they want it to stay. I do believe that the meta would be maybe easier to play with it gone, but that is not the point of banning a Pokemon. The point of banning a Pokemon is to make the metagame healthier for the players and I truly don't know whether the metagame would be better with it gone. The last Pokemon is one that I have not seen enough to really know how threatening or not threatening it is. The experience I have with Primal Groudon makes it seem like nothing at all in BH, but that is because the people who were using it did not know how to use it. I do not know enough about the sets that Primal Groudon can carry to really analyze it. So I am going to have to say no opinion on it for now. Those are my opinions on the current suspect, and if I made any horrendous mistakes in sets or something I said, I apologize. Again I am still fairly new to the metagame.
 
Pdon is arguably the most broken of the three due to its massive versatility in its sets to beat its supposed "checks" by virtue of its fantastic dual stab coverage and gargantuan attacking stats
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I would have to agree with Kl4ng. My whole premise for ray being in the tier was that it was not broken without its main set, so its main set should swiftly be dealt with, as well as the general issue of ate in the tier. There is no need of a "cooldown" period
 
well its been nice knowing you bh. lmao. yeah. i really dont want to run fur coat chans/registeel on all my teams, so i dont see why theres a point for me to play anymore. have fun with mega ray priority spam.
Well, to be fair, you save on slots to deal with Primal Groudon/Kyogre. So, I don't see how this is worse than before the bans.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Well, to be fair, you save on slots to deal with Primal Groudon/Kyogre. So, I don't see how this is worse than before the bans.
you have a point, but now we lost 2 checks to ray. groudon and kyog were 2 great checks to it, which helped stop it. now, basically every sweeper barring protean, and every wall barring steel types/fur coat chansey fear ray. rayquaza isnt like normal sweepers/wallbreakers, its not just some petty overkill mon that can be outprioritized/outsped and koed. and its not some weak pokemon who can only pick pokemon off if its at half hp. it can do both easily, and it hits hard too. the reason i found rayquaza broken WAS due to ate, but not solely due to ate. kyurem B and xern weren't nearly as bad as rayquaza was, rayquaza has POWER to back it up. sure it has checks, but so did groudon. groudon couldn't muscle past its counter: giratina, and yet all ray has to do is run T-arrows and its good to go...

so what if you have more room to devote to countering it. that doesn't mean its suddenly tame in the meta. Even the people who voted ban agrees its unhealthy for the most part, they just wanted a different approach to it. one i don't feel will solve anything since gale wings can EASILY take its spot. sacrificing powerful stab and priority, for a combination of both priority and power allowing it to run specs, alongside coverage that easily muscles past stuff that aeroblast/oblivion wing cant break through. and losing its best check in the tier: ate, the only reason its not used. this isn't a aspect of "if its broken" it was "is this the method of banning it they wanted to take" which is why flint(a conbanner) is now immediately proposing a ate ban. which is kind of needed now that ray is still rampant.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
Ray was the most broken out of all the suspects lol
i wish i had my real computer so I could have gotten reqs and saved the meta from this trash ;-;
time for 4 ray 1 chansey 1 aerilate check :(
 
When M-Ray uses Flying/Ground coverage together the only mons that can resist it are:



Skarmory and Mega-Aerodactyl are the only BH worthy mons and still they tend to be frail against the Mega BH Meta.
 
Don't forget, all of those mons are weak to Thousand Arrows, so if you are running 1K Arrows+Dragon Ascent you get perfect neutral coverage.
It is worth mentioning that Arrows is neutral against them the first time they're hit by it, though, so if they have good enough Defense the matchup could still turn in their favor.
 
PSA: Flower Gift is apparently no longer hardcoded to Cherrim. Any Pokemon with this ability thus gets 1.5x Attack and Special Defense in sunlight. Sun teams go!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-before-posting.3469932/page-222#post-6328389

It's a shame we never got the chance to try this with Primal Groudon (can you imagine how ridiculous it would have been with pseudo-AV and Band boosts?) but I'm looking forward to seeing how people make use of this in the current meta. I believe Ho-oh was used for this in Gen V, right?
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
PSA: Flower Gift is apparently no longer hardcoded to Cherrim. Any Pokemon with this ability thus gets 1.5x Attack and Special Defense in sunlight. Sun teams go!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-before-posting.3469932/page-222#post-6328389

It's a shame we never got the chance to try this with Primal Groudon (can you imagine how ridiculous it would have been with pseudo-AV and Band boosts?) but I'm looking forward to seeing how people make use of this in the current meta. I believe Ho-oh was used for this in Gen V, right?
YES THE REVIVAL OF FLOWER GIFT SLAKING THAT I APPARENTLY USED WHEN IT DIDN'T WORK SHALL BE REBORN!
 
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Never mind, false alarm :|

[11:22:08] Uselesscrab: so did anyone ever test ingame that flower gift works for everything?
[11:47:45] @Marty: Uselesscrab, what do you mean?
[11:48:02] @Marty: it works for Cherrim only
[11:48:08] Uselesscrab: Ascriptmaster recently made it work for everything
[11:48:10] Uselesscrab: let me send you the link
[11:48:24] Uselesscrab: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...-before-posting.3469932/page-222#post-6328389
[11:48:53] @Marty: uh
[11:49:05] @Marty: I don't see a fix anywhere
[11:49:20] @Marty: anyway, Veekun hasn't updated their descriptions since Gen 4
[11:49:25] @Marty: that was true in Gen 4
[11:49:38] Uselesscrab: ah
[11:49:55] Uselesscrab: I should have checked github, I just assumed it had been updated since he implied that he implemented it
[11:50:28] @Marty: I think he might have been half asleep judging by the above conversation
[11:50:32] @Marty: :P
[11:50:41] Uselesscrab: alright
[11:50:51] Uselesscrab: so im guessing it's still hardcoded to cherrim in gen 6?
[11:51:10] @Marty: yeah, Gen 5 and 6 have no mechanical differences re: forme changing
[11:51:17] Uselesscrab: ok thanks, rip
 
I intended to make my next post about -ate but with the new update to the Endless Battle Clause, Its become even more evident that BH should not lack an Endless Battle Clause of its own. And i mean a coded Endless Battle Clause, not the system we have in place now, which is for staff and players. The new updates show that Endless Battle clauses can be intelligent and transparent without limiting legitimate sets. For instance, An Endless Battle Clause that triggers after a certain number of struggles holds no drawback for BH, and would prevent trolling. There are numerous other ways we could manage a clause without limiting "creative" sets, a struggle cap is just an example.
 

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