Barbaracle can also go mixed with Tough Claws Grass Knot, and Carracosta also has more reliable priority, even if it's slightly weaker. Huntail's coilpass set also suffers competition from Bulk Up Floatzel, which while being less bulkier and not being able to raise accuracy has a lot more speed and taunt.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Ares
- Start date
- Status
Cradily C+ to B/B-
Although I used to hate this mon, Cradily is honestly a very good pokemon in the current metagame. It is one of the most solid special water checks in the meta, even chewing up most stronger Ice / Signal Beams without too much of a problem (seriously LO Samurott, one of the strongest special water types can barely do over 50% only to get hit back with a giga drain). Its great mixed bulk and reliable recovery makes it a rather difficult wall to penetrate, with even strong physical attackers such as Rhydon, Tauros, Fletchinder, and Kangaskhan really struggle to break through it, making it not only a great all around wall but a really reliable rocker.
While Cradily is an excellent wall, what really makes it shine is its unique access to boosting moves. With Swords Dance, it can make for a great answer to Xatu on stall teams, ensuring that they do not get out of hand being unable to 3HKO it even at +2 or +3, while it can p much OHKO with Stone Edge after one SD. Even on more balanced teams, its unique typing and bulk can make it a really unexpected and powerful double dancer, who can also run Seed Bomb > Earthquake to provide a better answer to bulky waters than Rhydon, or simply set up more easily on common special threats which Rhydon is unable to deal with. It also doesnt get shit on by Quagsire lmao.
While I do think Cradily is flawed, it's unique combination of bulk, offensive presence, boosting moves, and cool typing makes it a pretty solid choice for defensive or bulky teams, and can definitely be a great glue which should not go overlooked.
Last edited:
I'm going to disagree with Cradily rising. It's an ok water check at best, dealing with Simipour and soft checking Special Samurott. It doesn't block Lanturn's Volt Switch, doesn't appreciate Lanturn's Toxic, gets OHKO'd by SD Rott's Megahorn, and clearly hates Special Poliwrath's secondary STAB. A terrifying weakness to Ice-, Fighting-, and Bug-types and an almost complete lack of resistances because of how its types conflict with each other give Cradily virtually NO switch in opportunities whatsoever. It's passive (unless SD, like brawl mentioned, but I would much rather run Torterra at that point) and, more often than not, set up fodder. Other defensive Grass-types, such as Vileplume, Roselia, and Torterra are more than likely better choices 9/10 times, but a Water immunity makes it stand out. But that one quality is probably enough to keep it out of D, let alone put it in B-.
Speaking of C+, however, I'd like to nom something I've been thinking about for a bit
--> C-/D
I know this thing has a small niche over other ghosts with Acro, but I don't think it's very effective in our current meta where Ice- and Electric-types are so dominating. C+ mons will have reliable stops, but Blim relies heavily on Unburden, a one time ability, to make itself a threat in a tier that does not suit its typing for sweeping. It's not even as bulky as its HP stat makes it out to be because of its poor defenses.
Everyone's always hyped to band wagon new mons they like for promos from D/E to C+ or even higher, but I think it's important to be objective about it. Half the C+ mons could be shifted around to lower ranks, imo. A case can be made for about 2/3'rds of the mons below nu (cough) but that doesn't change their negative qualities.
Basically, I'm saying it'd be refreshing for me to see a bunch of noms for dropping mons instead of hyping mons :) (definitely agree with dropping gore/hunt btw)
Speaking of C+, however, I'd like to nom something I've been thinking about for a bit
I know this thing has a small niche over other ghosts with Acro, but I don't think it's very effective in our current meta where Ice- and Electric-types are so dominating. C+ mons will have reliable stops, but Blim relies heavily on Unburden, a one time ability, to make itself a threat in a tier that does not suit its typing for sweeping. It's not even as bulky as its HP stat makes it out to be because of its poor defenses.
Everyone's always hyped to band wagon new mons they like for promos from D/E to C+ or even higher, but I think it's important to be objective about it. Half the C+ mons could be shifted around to lower ranks, imo. A case can be made for about 2/3'rds of the mons below nu (cough) but that doesn't change their negative qualities.
Basically, I'm saying it'd be refreshing for me to see a bunch of noms for dropping mons instead of hyping mons :) (definitely agree with dropping gore/hunt btw)
Cradily's viability is only cut halfway by its defensive presence. Unlike the Pokemon you mentioned, it shines most not only as a defensive mon but also as a win condition. Bulky SD is great on stall teams, being one of few mons who can reliably take down Xatu and Uxie for defensive teams.I'm going to disagree with Cradily rising. It's an ok water check at best, dealing with Simipour and soft checking Special Samurott. It doesn't block Lanturn's Volt Switch, doesn't appreciate Lanturn's Toxic, gets OHKO'd by SD Rott's Megahorn, and clearly hates Special Poliwrath's secondary STAB. A terrifying weakness to Ice-, Fighting-, and Bug-types and an almost complete lack of resistances because of how its types conflict with each other give Cradily virtually NO switch in opportunities whatsoever. It's passive (unless SD, like brawl mentioned, but I would much rather run Torterra at that point) and, more often than not, set up fodder. Other defensive Grass-types, such as Vileplume, Roselia, and Torterra are more than likely better choices 9/10 times, but a Water immunity makes it stand out. But that one quality is probably enough to keep it out of D, let alone put it in B-.
Speaking of C+, however, I'd like to nom something I've been thinking about for a bit
--> C-/D
I know this thing has a small niche over other ghosts with Acro, but I don't think it's very effective in our current meta where Ice- and Electric-types are so dominating. C+ mons will have reliable stops, but Blim relies heavily on Unburden, a one time ability, to make itself a threat in a tier that does not suit its typing for sweeping. It's not even as bulky as its HP stat makes it out to be because of its poor defenses.
Everyone's always hyped to band wagon new mons they like for promos from D/E to C+ or even higher, but I think it's important to be objective about it. Half the C+ mons could be shifted around to lower ranks, imo. A case can be made for about 2/3'rds of the mons below nu (cough) but that doesn't change their negative qualities.
Basically, I'm saying it'd be refreshing for me to see a bunch of noms for dropping mons instead of hyping mons :) (definitely agree with dropping gore/hunt btw)
What makes it truly stand out though is its double dance set, which not only is a bit faster than donners, but has fewer weaknesses to set up with, can provide a soft water check on balanced and offensive teams, and it isn't hard stopped by claydol/quagsire/torterra, and unlike torterra it can run its grass stab without getting hard walled by common flying types.
If you think defensive is the reason I'm arguing for a rise in cradily you're wrong. It's great defensively, but it's also a really reliable wincon that performed its job very consistently
Also as tier leader Hollywood has shown hype > objectivity try and fuck with vanilluxe fam
Torterra can also run Stone Edge to beat out common Flying-types if you don't want to prepare for them in another slot. Torterra also has way more attack, more speed, a stronger Grass-type STAB, and more set up opportunities because of its more useful resistances in Rock/Grounds and an immunity to Electric. Cradily (especially offensive) is easily beaten by coverage moves from the resistances/immunity it has. I've already been over Water-types, but Electric-types can easily Volt Switch out and Normal-types will typically have a way of hitting it hard (Swellow with BB/U-turn, Zangoose with CC, and Kangaskhan with Drain Punch).
I've used Vanilluxe quite a bit myself and it's very good. While I'm sure a large part of what pushed it that far was Holly's influence, Offensive Ice-types right now are HUGE threats. I, personally, agree with it being in that spot because of how ridiculously strong it is.
I'd hope everyone else stays objective with the thread, hype posts shouldn't influence the list.
Nomming Sawk for S rank
Sawk is a great Pokemon that's so powerful to the point where Close Combat pretty much OHKOs or 2HKOs a good majority of the meta. Sawk has all of the coverage it needs and just the threat of its coverage moves alone discourage any bulky resists from switching in, as most of them are weak to Knock Off. Sawk also sits at decent speed tier as well, allowing to outspeed Magmortar, Mesprit, and Kabutops. Probably the most unique thing about Sawk and pretty much the reason I'm nomming this for S in the first place, is that its a wallbreaker that has the ability to threaten offense thanks to Sturdy, pretty much guaranteeing at least one kill before going down. All it takes is hazard support in the form slapping a Xatu or Defogger (or both if you're paranoid about hazards) on your team to make it incredibly effective. Pairing it up with a Healing Wish user is also devastating, and makes it almost always put in work during a match. That's just the CB set I'm talking about too. It has other cool options such as Custap Berry to get in a hit after its in Sturdy range as well as Taunt to give defensive teams trouble. Sawk is just a very solid mon that is simple to use and very effective.
Sawk is a great Pokemon that's so powerful to the point where Close Combat pretty much OHKOs or 2HKOs a good majority of the meta. Sawk has all of the coverage it needs and just the threat of its coverage moves alone discourage any bulky resists from switching in, as most of them are weak to Knock Off. Sawk also sits at decent speed tier as well, allowing to outspeed Magmortar, Mesprit, and Kabutops. Probably the most unique thing about Sawk and pretty much the reason I'm nomming this for S in the first place, is that its a wallbreaker that has the ability to threaten offense thanks to Sturdy, pretty much guaranteeing at least one kill before going down. All it takes is hazard support in the form slapping a Xatu or Defogger (or both if you're paranoid about hazards) on your team to make it incredibly effective. Pairing it up with a Healing Wish user is also devastating, and makes it almost always put in work during a match. That's just the CB set I'm talking about too. It has other cool options such as Custap Berry to get in a hit after its in Sturdy range as well as Taunt to give defensive teams trouble. Sawk is just a very solid mon that is simple to use and very effective.
Not to mention the destruction you can cause with the lum berry scarf bluff set, people don't expect a knock off to follow a close combat. I absolutely agree with Sawk to S rank because it has minimal reliable switch ins. The mold breaker set can tear apart Weezings and Garbodor with Earthquake and dodge Garbodors annoying sets.
Sawk can act as a wallbreaker, revenge killer, and destroys balance, easily. Definitely an S rank mon rn
Do you even know why Rampardos is ranked so high? Because i don't think you doSo after a bit of testing in the new meta, I think there are some things we could change.Sneasel has left, Shelgon to D rank imo
A --> A+ This thing is a monster right now, with high bulk, good typing and great speed it's almost the perfect set up sweeper. Its got a great set up move in shift gear which makes it incredibly fast and it hits hard as well, this thing has very minimal counters which are all easily taken advantage off with the right team mate. With high bulk it can surprisingly set up on a lot of the tier with the use of substitute. The only thing stopping this thing from being S rank in my eyes is quagsire and the chance to miss with gear grind.
C+ --> B- So instantly after sneasel left, I made a fraxure team, and it was a great win condition. With the unheard of dragon stab, not much can take a +1 outrage and those that can can be beat with the help of fraxures good coverage or iron tail, low kick, aqua tail and aerial ace. Not to mention it has decent bulk with eviolite which gives it more oppertunity's to set up, and the lack of mons using knock off is a great help as well. After a dragon dance fraxure can outspeed archeops and swellow making it difficult to revenge kill except for scarf mons and I guess ice priority which is almost non existant. Overall a really cool mon with a cool typing as well which lets it hit almost everything really hard.
A- --> A I have no idea why rotom originally dropped, I'm guessing it was sneasel and lanturn, but now that one of those it out of the way I want to nom it back to A. It has two really good sets being the standard scarf trick set or the hex, will-o-wisp set which lures in common volt switch absorbers which do not appreciate being burned and hex'd. Now that sneasel has left, it doesn't fear being pursuit trapped which is nice so you don't have to fear clicking shadow ball much anymore, and it is one of the best scarfers in the tier, it can even run specs as a nice lure. Also volt switch is one of the best moves in the game.
B- --> C+ So this is a mon that shouldn't really be so high, yes it has incredible power, but then it has very low speed, low bulk and only average movepool. See unlike previous slow hard hitters in NU, rampardos isn't like camerupt or pangoro as camerupt has great bulk and panda has a incredible movepool. It's best uses are on teams like sticky web and trick room, but those have so many requirements to function well, still a cool mon, but not worth B- when everything except its attack stat is lacking.
The anti lead set is the main reason why, and considering how big Xatu might become, i'd keep this rank for now. ( Sorry for lack of further argument, but when you don't know what you're talking about, i'd rather just end up ignoring this nom )
I'm gonna second the klinklang nom for A+; it packs pretty solid coverage in just gear grind+return, and by virtue of its typing, it can set up all over prominent mons such as df mawile and musharna. The current meta is just really kind to it right now, and I think that warrants a raise, despite the presence of quagsire.
Last edited:
Xatu is not S rank material. For one it does not "completely shut down Fighting types", as it gets maimed by Knock Off which is on every single one of them save Poliwrath and Primeape. Unless it runs Colbur Berry, after which it still takes a bunch of damage against the likes of CB Sawk which is the most common Fighting-type. CM sweeping with Xatu is mediocre compared to Uxie who has far better bulk and less crippling weaknesses. Coverage moves only help to an extent and more often than not you only have room for one. Stopping hazards requires good predicting with many rocks setters being able to throw a STAB Stone Edge at it if it dares to come in. TrickScarf is decent but sacrifices a lot of utility and definitely doesn't put Xatu in S rank.
Musharna on the other hand can go to A+ now with Sneasel gone. The mono-attacking CM set only needs Dark-types gone mainly. There's some other stuff that can get in the way, but Musharna has plenty of bulk to shrug off hits. Observe:
252+ Atk Iron Fist Golurk Shadow Punch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 204-240 (47.1 - 55.4%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 204-242 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. +1 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 218-257 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
After which you can usually still recover with Moonlight. It's simply a very powerful mon, one look at the S, A and B ranks should tell you how many threats it beats after it gets up a Calm Mind or two. Supporting it is easy as well. Pairing it up with Sawk has been done ever since BW1 and it's always been extremely effective, even with Skuntank still in the tier back then. Especially now when Dark-types are few and far between and none of them are particularly hard to deal with. Musharna to A+, it's evidently a great mon.
Musharna on the other hand can go to A+ now with Sneasel gone. The mono-attacking CM set only needs Dark-types gone mainly. There's some other stuff that can get in the way, but Musharna has plenty of bulk to shrug off hits. Observe:
252+ Atk Iron Fist Golurk Shadow Punch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 204-240 (47.1 - 55.4%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 204-242 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. +1 240 HP / 16 SpD Musharna: 218-257 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
After which you can usually still recover with Moonlight. It's simply a very powerful mon, one look at the S, A and B ranks should tell you how many threats it beats after it gets up a Calm Mind or two. Supporting it is easy as well. Pairing it up with Sawk has been done ever since BW1 and it's always been extremely effective, even with Skuntank still in the tier back then. Especially now when Dark-types are few and far between and none of them are particularly hard to deal with. Musharna to A+, it's evidently a great mon.
While having Fletchinder around still sucks, this mon just got better after the bans of both Sneasel + Magneton, especially with more Fighting Types getting better and many Ice types getting worse.
Already was discussed in np thread, but Misdreavus also has gotten better. The ban of two powerful Knock Off users makes Missy's life better, letting it do its job easier without being screwed as soon as Sneasel comes out.
edit:
Functions just like Reuni does (albeit worse because no Fblast) and Sneasel's ban makes it better. Still outdone by Musharna/Uxie though, but actually has a place (a tiny one) in the meta with the two best Knock Off users gone.
edit 2:
Hariyama isn't the meta-defining glue-mon it was a few months ago. First of all, there are only about two relevant Fire types (Fletchinder rarely uses Fire moves and can beat Yama anyway). Psychics are rising in usage post-Sneasel meta as well (Knock Off can do damage, but many run Colbur anyway). Simply put, the meta has not been kind to Hariyama.
Last edited:
Feeling Cryogonal should be moved up a bit to B+. It's a very reliable spinner that fares relatively well against a number of common Rocks setters in the tier such as Mesprit (so long as it doesn't run Psyshock!), Stunfisk, Torterra, and Rhydon. Its extreme special bulk and reliable recovery, plus not giving a shit about Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and the ultra rare Sticky Web is not shabby. It's a fairly reliable spinner and with Freeze-Dry that hits relatively hard, it's good at dealing with Rocks setters and having a good STAB in general: Ice is a pretty awesome typing in this meta as it stands. Iirc the only reason it dropped as low as B in the first place was because of Sneasel's dominance making it easy to remove so it can't spin repeatedly. But tbh, it's as good as Claydol imo and they're both good as spinners and each have their own advantages, so they should be in the same rank imo, especially now that there isn't Sneasel to crush its ass. Also it fares pretty well against Rotom and Mismagius so that's a plus too.
Also I agree with moving Sawk and Klinklang up for reasons already stated.
Also I agree with moving Sawk and Klinklang up for reasons already stated.
I would just like to say I agree with this nom.... that is all :D
Cradily C+ to B/B-
Although I used to hate this mon, Cradily is honestly a very good pokemon in the current metagame. It is one of the most solid special water checks in the meta, even chewing up most stronger Ice / Signal Beams without too much of a problem (seriously LO Samurott, one of the strongest special water types can barely do over 50% only to get hit back with a giga drain). Its great mixed bulk and reliable recovery makes it a rather difficult wall to penetrate, with even strong physical attackers such as Rhydon, Tauros, Fletchinder, and Kangaskhan really struggle to break through it, making it not only a great all around wall but a really reliable rocker.
While Cradily is an excellent wall, what really makes it shine is its unique access to boosting moves. With Swords Dance, it can make for a great answer to Xatu on stall teams, ensuring that they do not get out of hand being unable to 3HKO it even at +2 or +3, while it can p much OHKO with Stone Edge after one SD. Even on more balanced teams, its unique typing and bulk can make it a really unexpected and powerful double dancer, who can also run Seed Bomb > Earthquake to provide a better answer to bulky waters than Rhydon, or simply set up more easily on common special threats which Rhydon is unable to deal with. It also doesnt get shit on by Quagsire lmao.
While I do think Cradily is flawed, it's unique combination of bulk, offensive presence, boosting moves, and cool typing makes it a pretty solid choice for defensive or bulky teams, and can definitely be a great glue which should not go overlooked.
The shitty calm mind meta is back and with it uxie is now one of the most versitile defensive mons and a scary offensive presence. I see no reason it can't fit in with the mons at S.
I agree with others in terms of this rising! Now that seismitoad, mega-lix, and mega-rupt all cease to exsist kling mainly has problems with quagsire, lanturn, and rotom.
Rotom tends not to be bulky enough to handle it's stab, lanturn takes a fon of damage switching into rocks and return, and quagsire can even get popped by the rare and UNRECOMMENDED hp grass life orb klink. It's attacks get passed sturdy/sash which are often failsaves for preventing sweepes, and its typing and bulk allows it to set up on so many things. It can even run substitute to avoid shit like twave ;-;
Deej Dy
Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
Going to come back and write a long post later, but I feel Klingklang doesn't deserve A+ rank. It deserves S. It really only has a few checks and counters (Gurdurr, Quagsire) and shakey checks that rely on burns (Carracosta, Lanturn) The thing is a beast, It easily deserves S rank.
Edit: 300th post, hyuck
Edit: 300th post, hyuck
Last edited:
Agreeing with Liarliarpantsonfire with Musharna to A+ since it's amazing right now. With Sneasel gone, it can run its CM Barrier Stored Power set much more easily once opposing dark types are taken care of (there are only 4 or 5 relevant ones in the tier now). Thanks to its superb bulk and Barrier, it can set up on almost any physical attacker in the tier if it can get in for free, while Calm Mind lets it set up on special attackers. With Stored Power and enough boosts, it can even beat stuff like Klinklang 1v1 since it boosts it's defense faster than Klinklang boosts its attack. The only things that really hinder Musharna are its difficulty with Dark types, its vulnerability to status, and the low PP of Moonlight. Leftovers are now a more viable option for item now that Colbur isn't as needed for Sneasel and Gallade. Musharna can also use just a CM set with Signal Beam or Heal Bell, be an effective pivot, or be a Calm Mind/Barrier passer.
Transmuter
Banned deucer.
Now that Sneasel is gone, one thing I noticed is how much better Claydol has gotten as a spinner. It does really well against common hazard setters such as Garbodor, Rhydon, Stunfisk and Mesprit/Uxie (if you run Shadow Ball). Besides that, it can also switch in to hazards no worries, since it resists Stealth Rock and has levitate which makes it immune to spikes and web. It can also potentially check Combusken when/if that drops, but since it isn't in the tier yet, that's not really relevant. So yea, I think it is due for a raise.
Last edited:
Deej Dy
Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
"If you are unprepared for KlangKling, it will run train on your team,"- Norris Umbriggleston Tier (N.U Tier)-Original founder of Neverused
I am sure we are all aware of Klungkling and its band-aided-gear-face presence in the Never-used tier for quite some time now. Nonexistent in the Megalix era, once again forgotten during the Magneton epoch, Klangkarussell is now the "tiers top threat" (Deejles, 2014), and worthy of the ranking of "S". I will now examine why these glorious gears deserve the coveted "S" spot.
At a glance, Kligklung is one of the few Pocket Monsters in the Never-used Tier blessed with the advantageous typing of Steel and high Defenses of 60 Hit-points, 115 Defense, and 85 Special Defense. These attributes allow it to setup its formidable "Shift Gear" on nearly half the tier, without fear for its life.
Once the gears start grinding, even bulky variants (240 speed) of KlogKlup find themselves able to outpace Choice-Scarfers of 91 speed (Rotom) and below, and speedy gears can out-speed even base 110 speed Choice-Scarfers.... all after just a single turn, with an attack boost to boot.
With such great speed at its disposal, Killklap is able to do whatever it pleases before another Pocket Monster attacks, allowing it to use Substitute on feeble attempts of Sucker Punch and Will-o-Whisp.
Once Kibblekorn and its natural bulk have set-up, it finds itself able to ravish the large majority of Pocket Monsters in the tier with its STAB boosted 100 base power move at +1 Attack. Even if KitKat is unable to gather a kill after a single shift gear, very few are able to kill it in a single shot with its great typing and natural bulk, allowing it to attack once again or even Shift Gear again to further its chances at a sweep.
Now we move onto the main reason of Kilamanjaro's rise, the lack of proper checks and counters in the tier. As previously mentioned, Kwanzaking wasn't much of an issue when other strong steel types were present in the tier, once they were expelled KitchenKnive's presence wasn't just felt, it became feared.
At the present moment there exists only a handful of proper checks/counters in the entire tier, less than can be claimed of even Sneasel. These pokemon being:
Defensive: Quagsire, Poliwrath, Support Lanturn, Carracosta, Prinplup (audibly shudders), Stunfisk and Weezing
Offensive: Gurdurr
Now we will eliminate those Pocket Monsters who depend on scald burns to beat it (Lanturn, Costa, Prinplup), thus leaving us with only consistent checks.
That leaves us with only 4 defensive counter/checks and 1 offensive check... bullocks.
There just doesn't exist many checks for KitchenKeys in the tier.
You can also note how almost all of the checks/counters are weak to grass coverage, therefore allowing Cacturne/Lilligant to have their way with your team if they ever venture to double-switch.
Some may argue that Krabappel can be beat with offensive pressure and you're not wrong. However, a single Fire Blast miss, use of memento, double to Cacturne, etc may spell your doom as rapidly as our bandaged gears turn!
Since this post is already at a great length, I wont bother posting the large amount of Pocket Monsters it can set-up on, but feel free to examine your PS! Teambuilder™ and examine for yourself!
Your (least) favorite ladder scrub,
Deejles McDy
4 SpA Life Orb Klinklang Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 239-286 (60.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 166-196 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 202-238 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Klinklang Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 179-214 (50.8 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Simply by running an offensive mixed variant or by incorporating Wild Charge in its coverage over Return, Klinklang has the ability to 2HKO just about every "counter" which it seems to have in the tier. Whats even better is Rest + Magnetic Flux variants even beat the Support Weezings / Lanturns which are supposed to check it. Klinklang is surprisingly flexible for such a one toned pokemon, and really has the capability to break through anything it wants given the correct tools to do so.
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 166-196 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 202-238 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Klinklang Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Carracosta: 179-214 (50.8 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Simply by running an offensive mixed variant or by incorporating Wild Charge in its coverage over Return, Klinklang has the ability to 2HKO just about every "counter" which it seems to have in the tier. Whats even better is Rest + Magnetic Flux variants even beat the Support Weezings / Lanturns which are supposed to check it. Klinklang is surprisingly flexible for such a one toned pokemon, and really has the capability to break through anything it wants given the correct tools to do so.
I am actually going to disagree with Sawk moving to S. While yes, it gets coverage, and Banded CC does a ton, nothing has changed since it has been A+. If anything the situation right now is worse for it, as Sneasel was an amazing partner for Sawk as it was able to remove the Psychic types that reliably check it. With Sneasel gone, Psychic types have gotten so much better and Sawk is just set up fodder for them, as most still run Colbur Berry in order to beat all the fighting types. Also hazard stack is getting really popular again, which is never a good thing for teams with Sawk, as it relies so much on keeping its Sturdy intact. Overall Sawk is a great mon, but it just isn't good enough to make that push up to S, especially with mons like Mushy becoming popular again.
I also agree with Klink to S or A+
also mushy is good
I also agree with Klink to S or A+
also mushy is good
Last edited:
:origin()/pre00/1cfe/th/pre/f/2010/268/7/1/sexymon___gear_by_wupar-d2zgu2m.png)
Sweet Jesus
Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
I don't feel like these are very relevant as klinklang misses out on so much by not running substitute and return (I know you didn't explicitly talk about removing sub but running hp grass over return just for quag seems pretty dumb to me no matter your team so I'll assume you remove sub). Substitute is absolutely essential to set up on half of what klinklang wants to set up on such as anything with t wave, leech seed, sleep powder or wow and uncapable of breaking a sub in 1 hit (a lot of psychic and grass types). Wild charge is a cool option over return for a lot of klingklangs counters but running it means you are absolutely forced to lose a lot of hp any time you face something with rocky helmet (especially garbo). It also means you completely miss out on certan mons like lanturn and stunfisk. Just in general, klinklang really likes to finish things off with return because his stab has shit accuracy, having your secondary option be both weaker and have recoil kind of sucks. I mean wild charge is a viable option but you more or less just change certan counters to others and are stuck with an inferior coverage move against anything they both (WC and Return) hit for standard damage.
I'm not too sure about klinklang for S. It's definately a big threat to be wreckoned with but I feel it's a little better on paper than in practice and doesn't do enough to it's own counters when it comes in early game (and can't start setting up yet) making him sort of deadweight as long as they're alive. I also feel like if people start considering klinklang as an S tier mon, it won't be long till the meta adapts and he becomes less good than he is today, something that can't be said about other S rank mons that can still dent some good damage on their counters and force them to recover on their spare turn (if they can). I'm not completely against Klinklang for S but would rather see him A+ for the moment.
Last edited:
- Status