NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

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Gale you need to stop equating someone explaining the reasons behind their actions and being a member of the town. There are plenty of town members, and there will be a few in this game, who will not and can not explain their thoughts nearly as well as others. And you need to be able to sort through that and see something more important: do you believe that the way that they are playing -- regardless of the good bad or unclear reasons why they might do what they do -- indicates that they are a person who only knows their role pm and knows that they are town, or does it indicate that they know someone and they are worried about them or their partner being seen as mafia.
I don't understand this.

If a person cannot explain their thoughts nearly as well as others. Then they are either new to the game, or are scum, or the NOC mafia is not a playstyle for them to be involved in.

Currently, there is no concrete reason why he cannot be scum. And I have stated the reason why I think him lynching me is scummy. Because it is not a well thought out Lynch, but he makes it as though it is really obvious.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Oh, and I need to say this Gale, you're going about this the wrong way. What you're doing right now is finding reasons why someone is scum from the perspective that they are scum. What you should be doing is analysing their posts from a neutral perspective and if something is scummy about their post call them out on it. The way you're playing means that everyone in the game is scum because everyone acts scummy sometimes.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
I don't understand this.

If a person cannot explain their thoughts nearly as well as others. Then they are either new to the game, or are scum, or are the NOC mafia is not a playstyle for them to be involved in.

Currently, there is no concrete reason why he cannot be scum. And I have stated the reason why I think him lynching me is scummy. Because it is not a well thought out Lynch, but he makes it as though it is really obvious.
Who's this post about? Names are useful, you know >___>.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
I don't understand this.

If a person cannot explain their thoughts nearly as well as others. Then they are either new to the game, or are scum, or the NOC mafia is not a playstyle for them to be involved in.

Currently, there is no concrete reason why he cannot be scum. And I have stated the reason why I think him lynching me is scummy. Because it is not a well thought out Lynch, but he makes it as though it is really obvious.
But they ARE involved in it. Sometimes people do not play "properly." Some more than others. You need to be able to sort out the motivations behind why people are doing what they are doing regardless of the what they are doing or how they personally explain it. The words that people use is a lot less important than the intent behind the actions.
 
Oh, and I need to say this Gale, you're going about this the wrong way. What you're doing right now is finding reasons why someone is scum from the perspective that they are scum. What you should be doing is analysing their posts from a neutral perspective and if something is scummy about their post call them out on it. The way you're playing means that everyone in the game is scum because everyone acts scummy sometimes.
I just asked TIK to explain his reason to Lynch me. That is about it.
But him not doing so is creating the scummy aura around him.

Who's this post about? Names are useful, you know >___>.
It was in response to DLE's post as I quoted it. And DLE was defending TIK being unable to always explain himself, going on to saying that most players are unable to always explain their reasons for why they acted in a certain way.

My question is: Isn't that the reason those people are targeted as scum in a NOC game?
 
But they ARE involved in it. Sometimes people do not play "properly." Some more than others. You need to be able to sort out the motivations behind why people are doing what they are doing regardless of the what they are doing or how they personally explain it. The words that people use is a lot less important than the intent behind the actions.
DLE, I accept this point. But he is not even trying to explain.

If someone is not willing to learn the game, what do you expect the players in the game to do? Let them play the way they feel, or make them play the way everyone else plays? He needs to try to prove his point though right?

Just stating that it is obvious, doesn't help us understand how he is seeing the game.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
some questions before I go to sleep

acidphoenix If you had a gun and you could shoot either Cancerous or Pokeguy, who would you choose and why? I'm pretty sure those are the only two posters with anything in the way of content I haven't commented on at this point.

Celever you say that attacking people is how we generate content to read off of. What content do you think people should be judging you for, how should they judge you for it, and why did you make said attacks?
 
I am disappointed Cancerous didn't offer to summarize the game for me :(
Anyway I did a really quick read through but it's like 2 AM so don't expect me to touch on everything right now. Just the things that really stuck out to me.

Ok yeah I am a little sketched out by UncleSam. Before I even subbed in I saw his post responding to Da Letter El's inspector claim (lol) and thought it was pretty bad. These two quotes from Yeti and TIK sum up my thoughts at the time pretty well:
Yeti said:
is it just me or did unclesam dramatically overreact to what i perceived as a clear joke-post from DLE. it's like he was looking for something to trumpet his own village leanings with and endear newbies to him. but rly who was going to take that post seriously?
TIK said:
So UncleSam is still talking about that DLE doomsday scenario in which he nabs some noob with his fake inspector claim and for some reason the entire village is paralyzed to stop it and the game instantly with a mafia win and Circus Maximus goes into 1000 years of darkness. And then using this bogeyman to insist that hes obviously town.
I just struggle to understand why VillageSam would call DLE's bluff at all. Why not let it go and see how people react? It seemed really obvious to me that Da Letter El made those absurd claims to see how players (probably the newer ones) reacted to it. I don't see how village UncleSam would fail to recognize this and not let it play out. Instead he claims to be shutting it down as an attempt to start discussion, when it was obviously Dale's intention to start discussion in the first place. So his way of starting discussion is superior to Dale's? It just seems like a really ridiculous and irrational way of thinking that doesn't make sense coming from an experienced player.

What really bothers me about him is how he has cited that post multiple times as evidence of his towniness, when nothing in it screams "THIS GUY IS DEFINITELY TOWN" to me. Quite the opposite, in fact! It consists of calling Da Letter El's bluff (which is not indicative of alignment either way) and trying to use that to take credit for starting discussion. This makes me think that MafiaSam could have posted it JUST so he could get townie points for starting discussion. He clearly longs for the credit as he continuously talks about how pro town it is, and I don't see why a villager would act that way.

I agree that the UncleSam bandwagon was atrociously handled by the likes of Gale, Haunted Diamond, and acidphoenix. I think Gale's vote is the scummiest mostly due to his justifications when called out on it. Like TIK (I think it was him?) said at one point, he just keeps asking people to clarify their reason for suspecting him instead of actually defending his behavior. He says he doesn't view his vote as a bandwagon when the literal definition of a bandwagon is following the popular opinion. Just because you put (faulty) justification behind it doesn't mean it didn't unnecessarily push UncleSam to L-2 or L-1 within the first few hours of the game. I also hate the excuse that he didn't know how NOCs worked when he cohosted one a little more than a month ago and praises me for my play in it, which would imply he was following it to some degree and therefore would know how these games function.

Seriously Gale Wing Srock if you're actually town you would not be voting for yourself and you would actually try to help out EVEN IF you eventually get lynched today. Get your vote off of yourself.

Haunted Diamond bothers me mostly because he sounds like a broken record with only talking about how Celever seems to be playing similarly to the last game where he was mafia. Not only does he not talk about anything else, but he has given no actual evidence of it. This to me actually seems like how HE played in his last game as mafia, where he tunneled Jalmont all of Day 1 until he was called out on it. I also noticed what UncleSam said about Haunted Diamond and acidphoenix only being concerned with defending themselves and that is a knock against both of them.

My issue with Yeti is that she has yet to cast a vote (iirc) so it's hard for me to get a grasp of where she stands. Just off of memory her Gale read was pretty wishy washy and it seemed like she supported his lynching but then said "idk why he would do that as mafia though" which kind of leaves me hanging as to what she is actually thinking.

I would be lynching Gale if he didn't already have enough pressure so for now I'll vote UncleSam

Tomorrow I'll read more into this Celever vs. Gale thing but I doubt it's actually helpful so both should start looking elsewhere. Will read through again and touch on the people I haven't talked about I'M TIRED.
 

Da Letter El

Officially internet famous
is a Community Leader Alumnus
Gale Wing Srock My point isn't on if it is beneficial for him to explain himself. It of course is in the game's interest for TIK to explain the reasons behind most of his actions or to generate enough content otherwise so that we can judge him off of his actions and try to piece together his reasons from there. But I've felt TIK's reasonings while flawed in particular on the me + sam scumteam argument, I felt they came from a place of trying to solve the game and trying to find mafia. Most players when you ask them "why did you post this" will react with some variation of "idk" and we will get a lot more of those posts (and there already are a few). I've felt that even in instances where he doesn't fully explain himself that he does enough to generate content such that we can get some sort of semblance of where his head is at in the game.

Hopefully this sticks with you: It is more important to understand why someone actually did something than it is for them to tell you why they think they did something.

I can tell you that I can come up with a ton more reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing than TIK, you, or probably anyone else in this game but that doesn't make me town. It just makes me a smart and experienced player in NOC games.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
I just asked TIK to explain his reason to Lynch me. That is about it.
But him not doing so is creating the scummy aura around him.
Actually it makes him seem town. Scum generally don't make bold statements like "x user is bad, ignoring them" because it attracts a hell of a lot of attention to themselves and TIK typing up a quick answer would have been a far better play as scum. As town, TIK wouldn't care so much.

It was in response to DLE's post as I quoted it. And DLE was defending TIK being unable to always explain himself, going on to saying that most players are unable to always explain their reasons for why they acted in a certain way.

My question is: Isn't that the reason those people are targeted as scum in a NOC game?
He didn't say most players are unable to always explain their reasons, he said that some can't explain them very well. TIK isn't the best NOC player, but neither are you and neither am I. Everyone plays NOC differently and so like DLE said it's about WHY they would say something, not about how they said it, nor how many reasons they can give as to why they said it. If as mafia you make a post which you think might be a bit scummy you think about ways you could defend it, and if you can't you change some stuff around. At the very least that's what I do because it gives off a towny persona to players with your mindset. I say as I then explain my actions this game to DLE.... he asked for it......

Celever you say that attacking people is how we generate content to read off of. What content do you think people should be judging you for, how should they judge you for it, and why did you make said attacks?
Well, honestly I don't much care what specific content people formulate reads on me for, because if they are forming their reads properly they should find me town no matter what. I'm never the towniest player in NOC because I tend to not care as much about not looking scummy as I do about town progression. If people look into my actions like you recommend and think about intention as opposed to wording I should be good.

I made attacks because it's Day 1 and nothing ever happens Day 1, and I was mostly expressing opinion anyway. Yes I've been attacking HD but that's because I think that one of his very few attempts to contribute was extremely scummy. However at the same time I buddied UncleSam because I thought his lynch was really stupid and I've been "attacking" Gale to try and help him get his head around NOC, because he's not doing a very good job rn. It's just kinda love hate :p.
 

THE_IRON_...KENYAN?

Banned deucer.
So we havent heard enough from Buttered Toast, Hannah, HauntedDiamond, or Spiffy. Once we do, Ill be satisfied with how the day went so far. My vote isnt changing tbh and unless you can convince me of a better target its gonna stay that way.

Im voting Gale because he just seems to repeats things (He did this blatantly like three posts in a row on the same page), does filler, and does WIFOM where hes like "Well, when you lynch me and i flip village youll be really sorry!" It just strikes me as obvious hes scummy and my gut agrees.
 
I didn't mean to vote for myself, Lol. Now that TIK has given his reasons, I am lifting my vote off him. And Unvoting for now till I find a good target. US seems to be getting a lot of support on why he is town, but that slip post by him is still something that I cannot forget. But I think waiting to build a better case against him would be better right now.

Unvote

As for explaining my actions:

I joined the game initially, and saw Celever, DLE and US joke posting. I thought I should start some meaningful discussion, so I copied the OP from the signup thread and pasted them ITT. Then I c/p the setup of the game, to start a discussion on how lynching or going for No Lynch helps. (Tbh, I was lazy here. I should have immediately figured out what the majority would be and should have put more weight on my vote).

Then I came back to the thread after US's slip post, TIK's Lynch post on him, Yeti's post about the game, DLE's vote on UncleSam, Celever's explanation post (Which I didn't read at that time tbh), And Haunted Diamond's Wagon Vote. I was reading TIK's and Yeti's post while composing my own, and before I could post, acidphoenix had posted.

At that time, my mindset was to quickly post before someone else posts, and to keep the vote count as updated as possible. One of the reason for my haste, was why I missed acidphoenix as a Lynch Target in my post. Which he pointed out in the post below mine.

---------

I take full responsibility for my Haste, and Reckless behavior in this game. I did try to play it sensibly in the beginning, but I reacted poorly after I saw that UncleSam's defending post had so easily convinced people to unvote.

I didn't realize till later that US could be town, and having my vote as L-2 was a bit of a problem in ending discussion prematurely on Day 1. But, by the time I had realized this, enough folks had unvoted. So I thought I needn't unvote for now.

Then everyone was voting me for the L-3 vote. Which I didn't understand on how to explain, Because according to me I was not band wagoning so I didn't understand why people were thinking that way.

My reactions were definitely poor, and I would find myself scummy too. But the truth is that I am not scum this game. I did tell you guys that I promise I wouldn't lie in the next game that I play, and only the end of day update will prove my word.

----------
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
lol Spiffy completely ignoring every single one of my posts outside of my first discussion-starter (WHICH YES WAS A MASSIVELY PROTOWN POST AND IF YOU WERE VILLAGE YOU WOULD KNOW THAT).

I explicitly say IN THAT VERY POST what the purpose is and I explain it later. It is not a difficult concept to grasp and I am certain you can do it.

I did not overreact to DLE's claim, I did not react to his claim at all except in as much as I thought that it was aimed at gearing discussion towards the newer players (AS YOU YOURSELF POINTED OUT) and that I did not think that would be useful discussion/it would be easy for the mafia to hide behind throwing 'suspicions' on some newer player. So instead I geared the discussion towards me. This is absolutely 100% pro-town play and you know it, you're a competent NOC player and you know very well that gearing discussion towards players who don't defend themselves well for making stupid mistakes is not a good situation for the town. So I pre-emptively nipped that in the bud and took the good part of DLE's post and ran with it, as it turns out to excellent discussion grounds.

Go ahead, try to explain how that is anti-town. Because you can't. Because it isn't.

Spiffy screams mafia to me. When he is village in an NOC he focuses on what players are doing that is either stifling discussion or indicating strange connections between players. His post indicates none of this. He re-iterates DLE on the most obvious of obvious 'the US bandwagon was awful' to appear to be contributing. His reads are utter shit/fluff (like seriously there is nothing even remotely original there) and he completely avoids talking about anyone he doesn't absolutely have to (ie he gave Cancerous, DLE, TIK, and even fucking Celever a pass in his post).

Maybe he is just tired and hasn't had the time to read through the thread as much as he would like. But villagerSpiffy is generally on-point with noticing weird connections and he noticed literally nothing that hasn't been said before, he failed to grasp obvious villager motivations behind a number of things (my first post being the most obvious but Gale only accidentally voted himself that much should've been obvious, Yeti made maybe the single most substantive/taking sides post by anyone outside of myself thus far and yet he thought she was being 'wishy-washy'...), and he completely ignored a good chunk of the active playerbase while ghost-agreeing with that chunk on a remarkable number of points.

Just going to say this now but Spiffy and DLE sound like the same player. Seriously, look at Spiffy's post and tell me that you couldn't see DLE posting EXACTLY THAT (sans the obvious referring to DLE in the third person etc etc). I would not be remotely surprised if they were mafia partners, nor would I be surprised if Spiffy were partners with any of the people he ignored (Celever being the most obvious candidate).

Take some time, read through the thread, think about things, and come back when you have something real to contribute. I know 100% from your player history that you can do that. Not much has been said about Cancerous for instance; how do you feel about him? What about Celever, who you conveniently ignored in your last post? What about Acidphoenix, who you mention only in passing as a lob-in with Haunted Diamond? Do you also agree with DLE that TIK is clean?

And as I'm posting this Gale is apparently at L-1. Unvote. Very confused as to how this could be but I don't want there to be any remote chance that someone hammers this before Spiffy/DLE/Cancerous/the rest of you AFK fucks post more.

As of now the only lynches I'd be ok with are Gale (though I'm starting to lean away from this a bit, purely a gut feeling but I could see him being hopelessly lost noob town even though literally every action he's taken screams scummy...sort of in the DLE 'halp can't read Gale' boat on this one), Haunted Diamond, or acidphoenix. Whether or not I include Spiffy on this list will depend on whether he begins to contribute to a level I'd expect of him or not. DLE is close to being on this list but he has done just enough for me to believe he might be town up to now that I wouldn't want to see him gone on Day 1 (another point against lynching either him or Spiffy btw is that if he is village he has a higher-than-average chance of being nightkilled and so we learn more about him from his surviving nights than we do most others).

As for others Cancerous is slipping closer and closer to Celever territory in terms of being slight town reads until he posts a bit more, Yeti is still slight-medium town read because she's been pretty much the only other person who has been attempting to lead discussion at all though I am a bit suspicious that she seems to be playing nice with me which might well be a strat she would employ if she were mafia. TIK is medium-strong noobtown read. No read on Pokeguy, Hannahh, or ButteredToast for obvious reasons.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Also Diabolic Gift could you both A. Confirm that Gale was at L-1 prior to unvotes and B. Provide voting lists so that we can see how you counted votes? Because I was pretty sure that even with Gale's fail-quote vote it was only 5 on him, which should be L-2 I believe?
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Ok NVM Diabolic Gift updates our shared PM convo with new votes, and apparently ButteredToast was voting for Gale at some point way back when. Didn't even think the dude had posted so keep that in mind, Gale still has 4 votes on him even with him/me unvoting and is still at L-3. However, I'm not sure whether or not there's much point to keeping votes on him unless we decide to lynch him, since I doubt that the pressure will produce much of anything new from him.

I'm ok with people holding their votes on him for now since I think he may well end up being the best lynch target, but I'm going to Vote Spiffy until he answers my questions and I encourage 1-2 others to do so as well. I think applying pressure on him is way more useful than applying pressure on Gale until he talks more.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Very confused as to how this could be but I don't want there to be any remote chance that someone hammers this before Spiffy/DLE/Cancerous/the rest of you AFK fucks post more.
I'm going to bed bc I have to get up early and I won't post until after noon most likely but THIS. I do not put it past the schmucklords to try to hammer a vote or think their """pressure""" vote is helping when really it ends the day.

anyone who prematurely hammers = immediate next day lynch target due to obv-scum maneuver.

also I never pressure/rand vote in NOCs. I haven't played a NOC in a long time and very few people would remember my play but I never tend to make use of votes for anything but the lynch itself.

I definitely need to see some more content from the idlers.. seriously my notes columns for them are completely devoid of information because they have posted nothing of substance and thus nobody can post anything on them. harming the village by not letting us check for scumtells or suspicious interactions/reads from active users if you're idle. just gives them like 3 ppl they don't have to bs a townie-style perspective for.

at the moment I am most content with a Gale lynch but I do NOT want this hammered or forced anytime soon. I need to see some more out of acidphoenix/Haunted Diamond to determine which of them is mafia from the Sam bus (and Gale/AP/HD are the most egregious of the bussers, TIK began it and stirred up talk, DLE came in after, but those 3 certainly had the least reason to pile on votes. I have my eye on DLE as well. AP/HD being exposed more will also flesh out some info about Celever's allegiance imo.

btw can you numbnuts please not spam up the thread like yesterday with your drivel-infested back and forth? it makes it way more difficult than necessary to find meaty posts and ACTUAL OPINIONS to record down and tells us nothing except you want to slap at each other like children.

awww Sammy you know I'm just being nice until I have you tied up. and then the real fun begins when you can't escape ^.~
 
As much as I take offense by being labeled as dumbtell I guess I've been playing like that this game. I haven't yet had the chance to read 90% of this thread but I'm gonna get to it as soon as possible.
 
ButteredToast ended up having a pretty shitty day yesterday after a very long and very early morning shift and smacked the bed right after he got home until I woke up now at 5am and read through all of these pages. (Eat your heart out Haunted Diamond)

As for my contributions right now, I look at this erected pile of posts and I really don't see much of anything of any substance at all. The conversations are great, but the points near anyone is making are all just a little bit rooted in things that I don't really have much of a grasp on. I don't see how anyone can make any kind of points and be sure anyone is positively mafia or not right now. It seems that in reality, these are just guesses made out of everyone's ass and overthought to the point of irrationality. It seems like one big show trial to me, and maybe that's the point. But half the time I can't tell if people are being arrogant and thinking they are fucking Sigmund Freud and have everyone's brain and intentions mapped out, being busy and looking to contribute something so they get clear village vibes (which every player should be doing regardless of alignment), or if they are just fishing for some kind of minor information on anyone.

With this current set up, it very much feels that there is very very little to go on based on any kind of rational line. Whoever wins this game is going to win more or less on dumb luck because there seems to be no roles besides the doctor. Flips on village won't tell us much because they really don't have informed votes. If they flip mafia, there is still another mafia and their points might still be equally valid to find the other mafia. Also if they flip mafia, trying to find their partner is going to be a mess as we scour the entire field looking for connections to players... and then we end up having a debate over whether they were acting as a team or if the mafia member was buddying someone else to protect them.

I guess what I am saying is that because there are no roles, I am personally just viewing this game as a game of chance. All of my strongish play from the last NOC came on role connections and that dynamic is gone. I'm not really a fan of following anyone's mindset throughout this game because no one has any game information besides their Freud Play. And really the only piece of information I have is that I'm village. So based on that, anyone who gets lynched today that isn't me is fine.
 
UncleSam I have read your posts and I am not satisfied with your defense.
I was never making the argument that your post was anti-town. It is not indicative of alignment, and the fact that you continue to belabor that you are definitely town because of it is ridiculous.
UncleSam said:
I did not overreact to DLE's claim, I did not react to his claim at all except in as much as I thought that it was aimed at gearing discussion towards the newer players (AS YOU YOURSELF POINTED OUT) and that I did not think that would be useful discussion/it would be easy for the mafia to hide behind throwing 'suspicions' on some newer player. So instead I geared the discussion towards me. This is absolutely 100% pro-town play and you know it, you're a competent NOC player and you know very well that gearing discussion towards players who don't defend themselves well for making stupid mistakes is not a good situation for the town. So I pre-emptively nipped that in the bud and took the good part of DLE's post and ran with it, as it turns out to excellent discussion grounds.
Do you realize who your "excellent discussion grounds" involved? You claim to have stopped Dale's ploy so the discussion wouldn't revolve around newer players, but LOOK WHERE WE ARE NOW. Some people are only willing to lynch from a handful of players ALREADY and almost all of them are new players. I totally get why the trio of Haunted Diamond, Gale, and acidphoenix are under scrutiny, but that post would not have accomplished anything more than Dale's would have other than your wagon which I doubt you intended to happen. But you still act like the hero we all deserve for posting it!

This has been my main issue with you and you didn't address it in your response to me. You keep having to substantiate to yourself and everyone else that you are so obviously town and that post was what got everything rolling! I guess it was the catalyst for discussion, but not in the way you intended it to be. It was the people that realized how bad it was (and maybe 1-2 mafia pushing for an easy lynch) that started the bandwagon that encompasses the majority of our discussion right now. In the last game, vonFiedler was mafia and tried the same shit: taking credit for something that he didn't do. The only thing missing is tagging everyone in all of your posts and proclaiming that I MUST be lynched. So when I see something similar in this game I'm going to bring it up. Da Letter El brings up the point that this is just how you play NOC, which is an annoying possibility that I hadn't really considered, but I want to know why you feel the need to constantly bring up how great you have been in this game.

If you read like the second line of my post I said I would only talk about the main things that stood out to me because I was tired so relax. You do realize I subbed into this game? I did not have the luxury of responding to the first six pages in real time, so I think it's plausible that my main points are similar to others'. I'm also not going to scrounge the depths of this thread for a possible connection right as I enter this game. Is it not realistic for you that I would share my general and easily accessible thoughts as soon as possible before really digging in to the less obvious "weird connections" (not a rhetorical question)? I mean you literally tagged me and requested that I post something. You seem to be overly critical of me for no reason.

Yeah the Gale thing was stupid; I just saw a post made by Gale that included "vote Gale Wing Srock" in bold and did not investigate further so sorry about that.

A lot of what TIK is saying reflects my own thinking. In my last post I referenced agreeing with him twice. So I do believe that he is town. Probably my strongest town read at the moment.

I don't understand why many people have Cancerous as a town read. I can only find two posts of worth, the first of which pointing out what ended up being a mistake by Celever. Not really indicative of alignment. The second substantial post called out Haunted Diamond for his bandwagon which is fine and all but nothing groundbreaking. He is very null.

Gale's most recent big post seems genuine and he's not someone I really want to lynch anymore. His story checks out about missing acidphoenix's vote for UncleSam before voting. Gale's argument was still atrocious but it seems to be less of a bandwagon than it was.

Celever explain to me how you went from this:
Celever said:
Y'see, this is unfortunately how Gale plays when he is town. From what I know of his metas he's calmer when he's mafia. Do we want to use our Day 1 to policy lynch him? I'd rather not, but it doesn't seem like anyone is agreeing with my personal target of Haunted Diamond. :[
to this:
Celever said:
The AtE is real.

Unlynch Haunted Diamond (still suspicious though, see you tomorrow)
Lynch Gale Wing Srock
This is contradictory. In the first post you imply that Gale is usually an emotional player when he is town and he is calmer when he is mafia. But in the next one (which is only a few posts later) you vote for Gale because he's being emotional? Please explain.

And Celever we have like a day and a half I think:
The Diabolic Gift said:
Note: The Idiotic One Has 1 Day To Post Before Being Subbed
Deadline is extended to 7/14/2015 (About 1 Extra Day irl)
- 2 More Days irl before deadline
 
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