EXTREME Tier Shift

[InfernapeTropius11]

Well, Quagsire is perfect set-up fodder for Linoone (as long as it avoids the scald burn). And even though I'm too lazy to run the calcs, I'm pretty sure that a max attack seed bomb will kill Quagsire.

252+ Atk Linoone Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 212-252 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I got the same calc--it rarely 2HKOs Quagsire, and Quagsire ignores Belly Drum's boost due to Unaware.

 

[PassablyFleek]

252+ Atk Linoone Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 212-252 (46.6 - 55.5%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I got the same calc--it rarely 2HKOs Quagsire, and Quagsire ignores Belly Drum's boost due to Unaware.

Sorry, I always forget that Quagsire has unaware.
#waterabsorbftw

 

[Phione]

Sorry, I always forget that Quagsire has unaware.
#waterabsorbftw

Unaware is like Quagsire's defining ability, how the hell do you forget it? Don't mean to offend, just wondering, do people actually use Water Absorb Quag, over say, Gastrodon?

Also how powerful is Pawniard now? It was in what, NU, and now it has like much more Attack than Bisharp? Don't feel like calcing it right now because tired but seems scary.

 

[baconbagon]

Also how powerful is Pawniard now? It was in what, NU, and now it has like much more Attack than Bisharp? Don't feel like calcing it right now because tired but seems scary.

Doesn't Pawniard's base 85 Attack become base 115 Attack while Bisharp has base 125 Attack?

Actually, let's compare the two:

NU +30
75 | 115 | 100 | 70 | 70 | 90

OU +0
65 | 125 | 100 | 60 | 70 | 70

Itemless Pawniard is marginally bulkier, and quite a lot bulkier with Eviolite, so I guess it would pull off an SD set better. It also has a reasonable base 90 speed, tying with plenty of Ubers. Bisharp has a slightly higher attack stat, but seeing as it can't boost as easily it'll probably find its only niche in all-out attacking sets.

 

[tehy]

Pawniard :

75 / 115 / 100 / 70 / 70 / 90

Bisharp:

65 / 125 / 100 / 60 / 70 / 70

10 more HP and 20 more Speed mean it's generally better, but it's not a massive improvement either, you even give up on 10 Attack

another 10 SpA might be relevant considering it'll help you bust through quagsire with grass knot?

 

[baconbagon]

another 10 SpA might be relevant considering it'll help you bust through quagsire with grass knot?

0 SpA Bisharp Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 160-192 (35.2 - 42.2%) -- 86% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pawniard Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 180-216 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pretty similar amounts of damage output actually, but neither of them can really break through physically defensive Quagsire, even with a neutral nature.

However, if Quagsire's Leftovers have been knocked off and Stealth Rock is up, Pawniard has a miniscule chance to 2HKO it.

0 SpA Pawniard Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 180-216 (39.6 - 47.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[PassablyFleek]

Unaware is like Quagsire's defining ability, how the hell do you forget it? Don't mean to offend, just wondering, do people actually use Water Absorb Quag, over say, Gastrodon?

Also how powerful is Pawniard now? It was in what, NU, and now it has like much more Attack than Bisharp? Don't feel like calcing it right now because tired but seems scary.

Mao

I mainly play NU, so Gastrodon isn't available. Water Absorb Quagsire is better for when you can just infestation+toxic stall certain water types.

 

[Salamencizer]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how awesome Marowak is going to be?........

......Oh, and did I mention that it can learn Swords Dance?

And belly Drum too

 

[Isa Simple]

I am the only one who thinks that weather teams are going to be extremely good now?

SUN:
Ninetales - Drought
103/106/105/111/130/130
Groudon - Drought
Stats stay same

Exeggutor - Chlorophyl
125/125/115/155/95/85
Victreebel - Chlorophyl
110/135/95/130/100/100
Each with Growth

Mega Houndoom - Solar Power
95/110/110/160/110/135

Low tier Fire types like Magmortar get epic boosts to their fire STABs.

Ninetales is now a far better sun setter, and the power creep of strong Chlorophyl sweepers is ridiculous. Mega Houndoom is a crazy wall breaker.

HAIL:
Mega Abomasnow - Snow Warning
100/142/115/142/115/40
Aurorus - Snow Warning
153/107/102/129/122/88
Snover - Snow Warning (Eviolite)
90/92/80/92/90/70

Walrein - Ice Body
140/110/120/125/120/95
Regice - Ice Body
110/80/130/130/230/80
Avalugg - Ice Body
125/147/214/74/76/58

Hail stall may actually be a thing again. Mega Abo gets a small boost to all its stats, Aurorus becomes extremely bulky and gains some nice offensive presence, and Snover becomes really bulky with Eviolite and could use Leech Seed. All of the Ice Body users become beyond bulky, honestly those defensive stats are incredible, plus they have great offenses too! Also I believe that Eviolite will be extremely common in this meta with some of the new found defensive threats, and Eviolite > Leftovers means that Hail wears down the opponent far more swiftly.

RAIN:
I may be wrong but isn't Politoad PU cause of Drizzle being banned outside of OU? Assuming this is the case;
Politoad - Drizzle
120/105/105/120/130/100
Kyogre - Drizzle
Stats stay same

List of viable Swift Swimmers:
UU: Kingdra, Swampert,
RU: Omastar, Qwilfish, Seismitoad,
NU and below: Kabutops, Ludicolo, Beartic, Armaldo, Poliwrath, Golduck, Carracosta, Relicanth, Gorebyss, Huntail

Ludicolo - Rain Dish
110/100/100/120/130/100
Tentacruel - Rain Dish
90/80/75/90/130/110
Pelipper - Rain Dish
90/80/130/115/100/95

Goodra - Hydration
100/110/80/120/160/90
Lapras - Hydration
160/115/110/15/125/90
Vaporeon - Hydration
140/75/70/120/105/75
Whiscash - Hydration
140/108/103/106/101/90
Alomomola - Hydration
185/95/100/60/65/85
Phione - Hydration
110/110/110/110/110/110

+ All the many strong users of Hydro Pump, Water Fall and Hurricane that are boosted.

Yeah tbh I think Rain might be pretty scary. Like really scary. Like borderline broken.

SAND:
(Mega) Tyranitar - Sand Stream
Stats stay same
Hippowdon - Sand Stream
Stats stay same
Hippopotas - Sand Stream (Eviolite)
98/102/108/68/72/62

Excadrill - Sand Rush
Stats stay same
Stoutland - Sand Rush
115/140/120/75/120/110
Sandslash - Sand Rush
105/130/140/75/85/95

Mega Garchomp - Sand Force
Stats stay same
Mega Steelix - Sand Force
95/145/250/75/115/50
Gigalith - Sand Force
115/165/160/90/110/55

Rock Types in general: Every rock type NU or below gain +30 SpD and the Sand boost, meaning heaps will be epic AV users and things like Cradily and Aurorus will be unbreakable on the special side.

So sand doesn't much in the form of setters, but Excadrill has some partners now, and Gigalith in particular would be an extremely powerful wall breaker in Sand. Also all Rock type pokemon below OU get a massive buff to SpD.

Weather as a whole:
10/10 would use. Much better. Lots of epic new tools to use for each weather.

 

[frogstomperful]

Another potential threat from the depths...

Beheeyem @ Life Orb
New stats (NU): 105/105/105/155/125/70
Ability: Analytic [moves boosted +30% if going second]
IV's: 0 Attack, 0 Speed, 31's or appropriate Hidden Power [x] elsewhere
EV's: 252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Defense
Nature: Quiet or Modest

- Psychic / Psyshock
- Shadow Ball / Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ground] / Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Recover

 

[Isa Simple]

Another thing I reckon to be remarkably good is Weak Armor.

When hit by any physical attack the user gains +1 speed, at the cost of -1 Def.
The best users of it imo would be Vanilluxe, Kabutops and Omastar.

Vanilluxe:
101/125/115/140/125/109

Kabutops:
90/145/135/95/100/110

Omastar:
90/80/145/135/90/75

Kabutops in particular would be epic, as it also has access to SD, and speed ties with scarfed 110.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Unaware Quagsire is super important in this meta to deal with the crazy offensive mons.
I like the premise of this metagame btw. Using Pokemon like Charmeleon sounds like a lot of fun (well if Charmeleon is somehow viable, no clue)

 

[Nmone]

Unaware Quagsire is super important in this meta to deal with the crazy offensive mons.
I like the premise of this metagame btw. Using Pokemon like Charmeleon sounds like a lot of fun (well if Charmeleon is somehow viable, no clue)

Either have to be extremely strong on the physical side(such as Marowak), or a grass type.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Would Adamant Giga Impact Slaking be considered viable in this meta?

EDIT: Just did some calcs. Using Giga Impact with a Choice Band, this thing has a 1/4 chance to OHKO max physical defence Quagsire with just 1 layer of Spikes, and OHKO impish max HP Primal Groudon with Rocks and 1 layer of spikes. After rocks, it OHKOs max physical defence Lugia. Damn. It also outspeeds max speed Serperior with a neutral nature and max speed EVs.

Usually not advised since you can switch out during Truant at least but you can't on Giga Impact's charge turn.
also why are you discussing the birds when arceus is still legal
imo he's still the best priority user discounting linoone who partially outclasses him :(

Another thing I reckon to be remarkably good is Weak Armor.

When hit by any physical attack the user gains +1 speed, at the cost of -1 Def.
The best users of it imo would be Vanilluxe, Kabutops and Omastar.

Vanilluxe:
101/125/115/140/125/109

Kabutops:
90/145/135/95/100/110

Omastar:
90/80/145/135/90/75

Kabutops in particular would be epic, as it also has access to SD, and speed ties with scarfed 110.

Those 'mons do seem appealing with Weak Armor and decent bulk; but then Oma and Tops can't use Swift Swim which is one of their biggest selling points. And what about Shell Smash on Omastar anyway? Plus, the bulk is only okay-ish for this meta where everything has crazy offensive or defensive stats.

 

[G-Luke]

It's Sheer Force, but even then Thunder's BP is only 143, and that's coming off his (even in extreme tier shift) laughable SpA.

how is it laughable when he can 2hko the ENTIRE metagame

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

how is it laughable when he can 2hko the ENTIRE metagame

With SE special or his physical attacks. Actually, special Rampardos is an okay Rampardos set, since he has SF + LO to boost his power to decent-ish levels, and since he'll be trying to hit everything SE with said special moves, he's at least powerful enough to KO the things that he wants to hit anyway. Also, Rampardos has a surprisingly good special movepool, with Surf, Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunder.

 

[Blumenwitz]

It's Sheer Force, but even then Thunder's BP is only 143, and that's coming off his (even in extreme tier shift) laughable SpA.

95 is hardly "laughable" IMO. To put things in perspective, that's 10 points higher than standard Nidoking (and exactly as high as ETS Nidoking), one of the best special Sheer Force abusers in UU.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

95 is hardly "laughable" IMO. To put things in perspective, that's 10 points higher than standard Nidoking (and exactly as high as ETS Nidoking), one of the best special Sheer Force abusers in UU.

While this is true, the bulk of many Pokemon has also drastically increased, and I think that a new benchmark for base attack/special attack stat will be set higher. 95 is still only okay in regular tiers, so I believe it will find it lacking necessary power in some scenarios despite Sheer Force. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be pretty good, I just feel that it might miss some KOs it wants.

 

[xJownage]

While this is true, the bulk of many Pokemon has also drastically increased, and I think that a new benchmark for base attack/special attack stat will be set higher. 95 is still only okay in regular tiers, so I believe it will find it lacking necessary power in some scenarios despite Sheer Force. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be pretty good, I just feel that it might miss some KOs it wants.

It lacks the necessary power to go full special, however many sets easily go mixed and are nearly unwallable.

 

[G-Luke]

EDI

It lacks the necessary power to go full special, however many sets easily go mixed and are nearly unwallable.

Thank you. If you checked the set I posted, it 2hkoes the bulkiest walls of extreme tier shift, with only the trouble being rhydon and quagsire, which it both 2hkoes, but both can ohko back

 

[G-Luke]

Thank you. If you checked the I posted, it 2hkoes the bulkiest walls of extreme tier shift, with only the trouble being rhydon and quagsire, which it both 2hkoes, but both can ohko back

In fact, since it was for a rain team...

252+ SpA Life Orb Rampardos Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Rain: 400-473 (96.6 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

And for the icing on the cake...
252+ SpA Life Orb Rampardos Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 317-374 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Snaquaza]

This is now on the Aqua Server! Additionally I've added a Tier Shift metagame where PU gets boosts, and one even mroe insane than this.

 

[G-Luke]

How OP is the Pikachu squadsquad? Gone are the days when seeing a member of the electric rodents in ou results in laughs. Now they result in screams of horror!
Dedenne
97|88|88|101|87|131
Dedenne still sucks. But what about....

Emolga
85|105|90|105|90|133
Still sucks. Can't go up against pogres.

Pachirisu
90|75|100|75|120|125
If tis had this stat spread, it would do well in OU. But it again sucks.

Minu... really guys all these things suck until pika and raichu hop out so

Pikachu
65|85|70|80|80|120
Pikachu w/Light Ball would be the definition of glass cannon. It does, however, face stiff competion from a poke that rises from the shadows as a prominent sweeper. Introducing the actual face of this post...

Raichu
90|120|85|120|110|130

Raichu, if allowed to set up, can sweep whole teams. It has hp grass for rhydon and quagsire, focus blast 4 steelz and not much likes a thunderbolt at +2. So this could become a prominent sweeper

 

[MikeDawg]

I don't understand why people see x Mon that now has a stat that exceeds 150, then think that it is the new pariah. The entire meta has a boosted BST. Raichu's 120 spatt is mediocre both in comparison to other threats and when considering the bulk buff that the defensive side got

 

[apuilsalame]

I don't understand why people see x Mon that now has a stat that exceeds 150, then think that it is the new pariah. The entire meta has a boosted BST. Raichu's 120 spatt is mediocre both in comparison to other threats and when considering the bulk buff that the defensive side got

It's still funny to see how certain pokemon change their power level so quickly,pu's pokes suck anyway bc they get the same stat boost as nu's,which are obviously superior