NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

[Yeti]

Ok I got some feedback so let's check it

Haunted Diamond wants #1 Celever #2 UncleSam --> #1 Celever, #2 PokeguyNXB, #3 UncleSam

TIK/Ultrasplot wants #1 Celever, DLE or Gale

ButteredToast wants #1 Gale or Haunted Diamond

Cancerous wants #1 acidphoenix, or Gale or Haunted Diamond

Spiffy wants #1 PokeguyNXB, or Haunted Diamond --> order swap?

UncleSam wants #1 Haunted Diamond, #2 PokeguyNXB, #3 Gale, #4 acidphoenix, #5 Celever

Gale wants #1 Celever

Walrein wants #1 Haunted Diamond, #2 PokeguyNXB

acidphoenix, PokeguyNXB, DLE and myself have yet to respond.

DLE raises a good point. Haunted Diamond hasn't buddied anyone. My notes show no real connection on his part to anyone. He just does the stupid bandwagon and has been continually opposed to Celever. Maybe someone else feels differently that he echoes any one player's sentiments too much but I don't think he's fallen into the trap of riding his partner's coattails and come on, look at the rest of his posts and his play. He surely could not play this ONE facet so well and avoid implicating his partner while making himself seem scummy af. I think, as I have all along with him and acidphoenix, they're impossible to tell if they are noob town who made themselves look very scummy or scum on Day One.

If/when HD is lynched and he flips mafia I will get UncleSam wrongfully up in my grill. He's been on about how I simply MUST be HD's scumbuddy because I said Sam was trying to bus him and could be his partner, selling out who he perceives as an already-gone teammate. Every other player who has given a read on me has said town, and Sam did before I dared to oppose his 110% legit towniness. Sam why are you so defensive? And why have you been so forceful about this lynch on HD? You are picking on a guy who cannot defend himself. Whether he's village or town, you know you have been supporting a lynch, and seeking to end the day with the lynch on him, on a player who has no chance of standing up to your bullying and aggressiveness. When I called you out before you began this bizarre insistence I am HD's partner. You would have done the same if I defended another bandwagoner. How many scum partners can I have, Sam? Or am I just not as convinced your motivations for trying to lynch off someone whose play hasn't really distinguished him from the other bandwagoners as any more scum than them are truly pro-town? There are too many people reading me as town in this game for all of them to be scum. If you really think most of the game is wrong and I am mafia, well, go ahead and waste your time pursuing me as a target following HD's scumflip (should he flip it). :^)

We can see that Celever is another popular lynch target. However, it is true that two of the bandwagoners who have been against Celever from the start of the game are in favor of lynching him. Is he actually scum, or are scum trying to sew the seeds of doubt into the town?

PokeguyNXB is next likely to be wanted dead. This guy I have SOME hesitance about because he's not been very active of a contributor, so it seems like a possible scum-roll on an inactive or someone who can't defend himself. But even as town I can see several reasons to lynch him. He continually avoids contributing, skirts the questions he is asked and makes bs stalling posts about how other sites play and metas and blah blah. Can't scumhunt himself, absolving himself of responsibility to do anything, and so forth. I don't buy it. I don't buy none of it. In comparison, ButteredToast has given some reads and advanced his contributions since being called out for the same stuff as PokeguyNXB. I find Pokeguy's either inability or unwillingness to do the same very scumlike.

I will continue to not cast a vote until acidphoenix PokeguyNXB and Da Letter El state who they want lynched today. Hammering before these guys have a chance to state for the record = suspicious and scummy.

 

[Spiffy]

Just want to point out that Haunted Diamond is at L-2. No one else should vote for him for now or he could self hammer and end the day prematurely. And the day shouldn't end before people like Pokeguy and Dale respond.

 

[Ampharos]

Yeti Celever and acidphoenix are essentially #3 and #4 on my list, just a lot further down than the other 2

 

[UltrasPlot]

Gale, I unvoted you in my previous post, even though I did not say who I unvoted because I did not check.

I feel like this is just going to go around in circles until someone gets stealthlynched by the mafia...

So, from what I gather:
The people that are likely to be lynched today are HD, Pokeguy, Acid, Gale, and Celever.

And HD lynch gives us a better view on Yeti, but by no means 100%.

A Pokeguy lynch gives us absolutely nothing to work with.

acid hasn't even commented since I subbed in but I don't think it will give us any significant information. Also, from playing with acid on PS!, he's not stupid enough to simply jump on bandwagons as mafia, though I could very well be proven wrong.

Gale: Info on US (this post makes me believe that he's attempting to buddy to get off the pressure Gale is pressing on Celever ^), also Celever

Celever: Info on Gale, US (appearing to slightly distance himself while protecting Celever and pushing an HD lynch all in one post).

I believe that UncleSam could very well be a viable lynch target due to his last post attempting to move pressure off himself. Analysis:

You have a really weird obsession on me. Gale, quit talking about me. You've raised some good points about Celever though, and I think that given Gale's recent posting it would be really silly to lynch him over one of the non-contributors. Yes, I'll give you some points so you're not mad at me, and I TOTALLY agree with his post on Celever, and therefore we shouldn't lynch him so he thinks I'm town for defending him

Similarly however I feel that Celever is contributing. Defending Celever. While his buddying of me throughout this entire day has been really strange (particularly from someone else's perspective I'd guess) keep in mind that he's far from the only person reading me as town. Distancing himself from Celever in case the Celever lynch does go through. You and Haunted Diamond are pretty much the only people who read me as scum, Lie. I do as well. Though perhaps not as strong a read. and your reasoning for me is based solely on...thinking Celever is mafia? Not at all, it is also based on your posts.

That being said I agree with Spiffy once again (sigh)Goes ahead and attempts to buddy Spiffy as well. and find Haunted Diamond's most recent posts to be screaming with 'omg pls lynch literally anyone else just not me I don't care', which is a pretty big scumtell. Goes on to push an HD lynch to save his buddy? Perhaps. I'm not going to change my vote until Pokeguy gives me some meaningful analyses to at least make my changing votes worthwhile What do we get from lynching an inactive? Town is far more likely to be inactive than mafia since frankly you have less incentive to care, but I think Haunted is back to the top of the 'who I'd like lynched' list. Yeah, we should totally all lynch HD.

This post is really suspicious...

 

[UncleSam]

The only thing worth noticing in Ultrasplot's post regarding me was this:

What do we get from lynching an inactive? Town is far more likely to be inactive than mafia since frankly you have less incentive to care

'You'. Just saying.

I posted that because Gale was drawing 'connections' that could literally be a connection between anyone and Celever (such as his drawing a 'connection' between Celever suggesting people ignore Gale and me not solely talking about Gale in recent posts...like, really?). This is a weird obsession. I don't know what else to call it. I'm not asking he stop talking about me, I'm asking he actually think about things.

I'm not 'distancing myself from Celever' like holy shit I've been pointing out shit Celever has been doing since he started buddying me at the beginning of the day. I have consistently listed him among the more suspicious players, it's just that he hasn't been worthless and didn't try to insta-hammer a village at the start of the day so I don't think he's a good day 1 lynch target. How is this difficult to grasp.

I never said that Yeti and Haunted Diamond were 100% teammates, I said there was an interesting connection between them. There is also an interesting connection between Haunted and several others on both sides (he's been against Celever and myself and Spiffy is now against him rather strongly, as was your predecessor TIK, while Yeti and Gale have consistently attempted to redirect pressure away from him (same with Pokeguy to some extent).

Finally, you really have no idea but I said 'sigh' because it's a running joke that no one ought to agree with Spiffy. Me agreeing with him is not 'buddying', lol. Finally, on this forum I'd argue that it is precisely the opposite: mafia is far more likely to be inactive than town. Being just active enough to avoid getting lynched is a very common mafia strategy, and people who aren't contributing actively I feel are worth much less than those that are (if for no other reason than that the active contributors are a lot more likely to be killed by the mafia if they are village, so why waste lynches when the nightkills will sort through the active people anyway?).

There's other stuff wrong with your post but frankly it's so nonsensical that going through line by line and pointing out the obvious ridiculous logical jumps is worth my time even less than it is to go through Gale's posts regarding me. I agree that by far the worst strike against me is that Celever seems to be buddying me but do you really think he would do that if he is mafia and I'm his teammate? Notice that he didn't exactly try to stop the bandwagon on me earlier (he simply ignored it more or less), and only really started to buddy me after it became obvious that a bunch of scummy players tried to ram majority on me through less than 12 hours into the day.

Ok I got some feedback so let's check it

Haunted Diamond wants #1 Celever #2 UncleSam --> #1 Celever, #2 PokeguyNXB, #3 UncleSam

TIK/Ultrasplot wants #1 Celever, DLE or Gale

ButteredToast wants #1 Gale or Haunted Diamond

Cancerous wants #1 acidphoenix, or Gale or Haunted Diamond

Spiffy wants #1 PokeguyNXB, or Haunted Diamond --> order swap?

UncleSam wants #1 Haunted Diamond, #2 PokeguyNXB, #3 Gale, #4 acidphoenix, #5 Celever

Gale wants #1 Celever

Walrein wants #1 Haunted Diamond, #2 PokeguyNXB

acidphoenix, PokeguyNXB, DLE and myself have yet to respond.

DLE raises a good point. Haunted Diamond hasn't buddied anyone. My notes show no real connection on his part to anyone. He just does the stupid bandwagon and has been continually opposed to Celever. Maybe someone else feels differently that he echoes any one player's sentiments too much but I don't think he's fallen into the trap of riding his partner's coattails and come on, look at the rest of his posts and his play. He surely could not play this ONE facet so well and avoid implicating his partner while making himself seem scummy af. I think, as I have all along with him and acidphoenix, they're impossible to tell if they are noob town who made themselves look very scummy or scum on Day One.

If/when HD is lynched and he flips mafia I will get UncleSam wrongfully up in my grill. He's been on about how I simply MUST be HD's scumbuddy because I said Sam was trying to bus him and could be his partner, selling out who he perceives as an already-gone teammate. Every other player who has given a read on me has said town, and Sam did before I dared to oppose his 110% legit towniness. Sam why are you so defensive? And why have you been so forceful about this lynch on HD? You are picking on a guy who cannot defend himself. Whether he's village or town, you know you have been supporting a lynch, and seeking to end the day with the lynch on him, on a player who has no chance of standing up to your bullying and aggressiveness. When I called you out before you began this bizarre insistence I am HD's partner. You would have done the same if I defended another bandwagoner. How many scum partners can I have, Sam? Or am I just not as convinced your motivations for trying to lynch off someone whose play hasn't really distinguished him from the other bandwagoners as any more scum than them are truly pro-town? There are too many people reading me as town in this game for all of them to be scum. If you really think most of the game is wrong and I am mafia, well, go ahead and waste your time pursuing me as a target following HD's scumflip (should he flip it). :^)

We can see that Celever is another popular lynch target. However, it is true that two of the bandwagoners who have been against Celever from the start of the game are in favor of lynching him. Is he actually scum, or are scum trying to sew the seeds of doubt into the town?

PokeguyNXB is next likely to be wanted dead. This guy I have SOME hesitance about because he's not been very active of a contributor, so it seems like a possible scum-roll on an inactive or someone who can't defend himself. But even as town I can see several reasons to lynch him. He continually avoids contributing, skirts the questions he is asked and makes bs stalling posts about how other sites play and metas and blah blah. Can't scumhunt himself, absolving himself of responsibility to do anything, and so forth. I don't buy it. I don't buy none of it. In comparison, ButteredToast has given some reads and advanced his contributions since being called out for the same stuff as PokeguyNXB. I find Pokeguy's either inability or unwillingness to do the same very scumlike.

I will continue to not cast a vote until acidphoenix PokeguyNXB and Da Letter El state who they want lynched today. Hammering before these guys have a chance to state for the record = suspicious and scummy.

Well firstly yes, I noticed that you dropped your biggest scumtell in not defending HD, but questioning how I arrived at suspicion on him when it was patently obvious how I did so. This is a move you pull almost always when you are mafia (questioning the logic behind why people think your teammates are bad) and caused me to re-evaluate my read on you for obvious reasons. I don't see what is weird about this, you admitted yourself its a big scumtell that you've got.

I'm not being defensive lol, in what sense did you 'oppose my 110% legit towniness'? You questioned how I got to the conclusion that Haunted Diamond is scum, which is really not a matter of questioning me so much as either not reading my posts or selectively ignoring points. I've changed my lynch target a few times as better targets have come up, but Haunted Diamond has been a strong lynch candidate for most of the day and his recent posts are in full-on 'pls lynch anyone other than me' mode. I notice that you don't address Haunted Diamond's recent scummy play at all in your post and instead keep trying to both throw shade on his scummy play or ignore it, and you don't even seem to believe yourself when you mention the possibility of Haunted flipping village (like your post strongly suggests you think he will flip mafia).

Also, I am finally getting a little annoyed at you holding your vote for so long. Why not use it to pressure? Like you are contributing but it seems like you aren't irritating or pushing anyone except for people who go after Haunted Diamond.

Haunted Diamond's play has been significantly worse than the other bandwagoners of late. Gale may be wrong and illogical, but he is trying to make reads and figure things out. He is just approaching it from the wrong perspective (ie he goes in with a pre-determined mindset and then sees everything through that lens rather than following the evidence and posting patterns to their logical conclusions). Acidphoenix has been somewhat under-the-radar I guess but he has been more useful than either Pokeguy or Haunted Diamond with none of the scumtells of the other two.

 

[UltrasPlot]

The only thing worth noticing in Ultrasplot's post regarding me was this:


'You'. Just saying. Duh one pronoun equals scum, and since I'm not for being inactive as town (clearly)...

I posted that because Gale was drawing 'connections' that could literally be a connection between anyone and Celever (such as his drawing a 'connection' between Celever suggesting people ignore Gale and me not solely talking about Gale in recent posts...like, really?). This is a weird obsession. I don't know what else to call it. I'm not asking he stop talking about me, I'm asking he actually think about things. You basically just restated what you said in that last post.

I'm not 'distancing myself from Celever' like holy shit I've been pointing out shit Celever has been doing since he started buddying me at the beginning of the day. If that isn't distancing I have no idea what the heck that is. I have consistently listed him among the more suspicious players, it's just that he hasn't been worthless and didn't try to insta-hammer a village at the start of the day so I don't think he's a good day 1 lynch target. If a mafia would simply say his buddy was clear, this game would be way too easy. So you're casting faux suspicion without giving us any reason to lynch him, while giving us reasons not to lynch him. How is this difficult to grasp. lol

I never said that Yeti and Haunted Diamond were 100% teammates, I said there was an interesting connection between them. true... There is also an interesting connection between Haunted and several others on both sides (he's been against Celever and myself and Spiffy is now against him rather strongly, as was your predecessor TIK, while Yeti and Gale have consistently attempted to redirect pressure away from him (same with Pokeguy to some extent). Well, arguably, if he IS scum, what sense does TWO people redirecting attention from him make? They can't all be on the same scumteam./b]

Finally, you really have no idea but I said 'sigh' because it's a running joke that no one ought to agree with Spiffy. k Me agreeing with him is not 'buddying', lol. You are less likely to lynch someone that agrees with you. That post will clearly advantage you in Spiffy's eyes, even subconciously. Finally, on this forum I'd argue that it is precisely the opposite: mafia is far more likely to be inactive than town. Inactive and lurking are very different creatures... Being just active enough to avoid getting lynched is a very common mafia strategy If anyone this applies to dle, but not acidphoenix and pokeguy, who both could have been activity lynched a long while ago, and people who aren't contributing actively I feel are worth much less than those that are (if for no other reason than that the active contributors are a lot more likely to be killed by the mafia if they are village, so why waste lynches when the nightkills will sort through the active people anyway?). They also can potentially be subbed for inactivity...

There's other stuff wrong with your post but frankly it's so nonsensical that going through line by line and pointing out the obvious ridiculous logical jumps is worth my time even less than it is to go through Gale's posts regarding me. Oh yes, your post is utter shit so I won't respond to you, this is totally the best defense I can come up with. I agree that by far the worst strike against me is that Celever seems to be buddying me but do you really think he would do that if he is mafia and I'm his teammate?I never said you would be his teammate, but Haunted Diamond is clearly the easier lynch, if Celever flips scum and the buddying is noticed you're in hot water. Notice that he didn't exactly try to stop the bandwagon on me earlier (he simply ignored it more or less) He did not see you as a potential ally back then, this stuff takes time, and only really started to buddy me after it became obvious that a bunch of scummy players tried to ram majority on me through less than 12 hours into the day. I'm pretty sure no matter how hard mafia tried you wouldn't have been lynched 12 hours into the day, idiots tend to not be the majority, or at least they shouldn't, because if they are we're utterly screwed anyways.


Well firstly yes, I noticed that you dropped your biggest scumtell in not defending HD, but questioning how I arrived at suspicion on him when it was patently obvious how I did so. This is a move you pull almost always when you are mafia (questioning the logic behind why people think your teammates are bad) and caused me to re-evaluate my read on you for obvious reasons. I don't see what is weird about this, you admitted yourself its a big scumtell that you've got. I have to agree with this.

I'm not being defensive lol "There's other stuff wrong with your post but frankly it's so nonsensical that going through line by line and pointing out the obvious ridiculous logical jumps is worth my time even less than it is to go through Gale's posts regarding me." Read this again... what else is this?, in what sense did you 'oppose my 110% legit towniness'?He is open to the possibility that you could be scum. Therefore he does not think you are 110% legit townie, as you put it. You questioned how I got to the conclusion that Haunted Diamond is scum, which is really not a matter of questioning me so much as either not reading my posts or selectively ignoring points. I've changed my lynch target a few times as better targets have come up, but Haunted Diamond has been a strong lynch candidate for most of the day and his recent posts are in full-on 'pls lynch anyone other than me' mode. You do realize that townies can have this tendency too...? People like to survive. I notice that you don't address Haunted Diamond's recent scummy play at all in your post and instead keep trying to both throw shade on his scummy play or ignore it, and you don't even seem to believe yourself when you mention the possibility of Haunted flipping village (like your post strongly suggests you think he will flip mafia).

Also, I am finally getting a little annoyed at you holding your vote for so long. Why not use it to pressure? Agree. Being too neutral is drawing a suspicious look from me once in a while as well. Like you are contributing but it seems like you aren't irritating or pushing anyone except for people who go after Haunted Diamond.

Haunted Diamond's play has been significantly worse than the other bandwagoners of late. Gale may be wrong and illogical, but he is trying to make reads and figure things out. He is just approaching it from the wrong perspective (ie he goes in with a pre-determined mindset and then sees everything through that lens rather than following the evidence and posting patterns to their logical conclusions This sounds like you're accusing Gale of exactly what mafia would do but you don't want him lynched. K.). Acidphoenix has been somewhat under-the-radar I guess but he has been more useful than either Pokeguy or Haunted Diamond with none of the scumtells of the other two. Once again, LYNCH HAUNTED DIAMOND!!! At least he's posting. Acidphoenix is not. Therefore in my opinion Haunted is more useful.

Respond to the whole post this time >.>

 

[UncleSam]

It is so hard to see what you added to my post when you bold 75% of it...

 

[UltrasPlot]

Well, arguably, if he IS scum, what sense does TWO people redirecting attention from him make? They can't all be on the same scumteam.

Finally, you really have no idea but I said 'sigh' because it's a running joke that no one ought to agree with Spiffy. k Me agreeing with him is not 'buddying', lol. You are less likely to lynch someone that agrees with you. That post will clearly advantage you in Spiffy's eyes, even subconciously. Finally, on this forum I'd argue that it is precisely the opposite: mafia is far more likely to be inactive than town. Inactive and lurking are very different creatures... Being just active enough to avoid getting lynched is a very common mafia strategy If anyone this applies to dle, but not acidphoenix and pokeguy, who both could have been activity lynched a long while ago, and people who aren't contributing actively I feel are worth much less than those that are (if for no other reason than that the active contributors are a lot more likely to be killed by the mafia if they are village, so why waste lynches when the nightkills will sort through the active people anyway?).They also can potentially be subbed for inactivity...

There's other stuff wrong with your post but frankly it's so nonsensical that going through line by line and pointing out the obvious ridiculous logical jumps is worth my time even less than it is to go through Gale's posts regarding me. Oh yes, your post is utter shit so I won't respond to you, this is totally the best defense I can come up with. I agree that by far the worst strike against me is that Celever seems to be buddying me but do you really think he would do that if he is mafia and I'm his teammate?I never said you would be his teammate, but Haunted Diamond is clearly the easier lynch, if Celever flips scum and the buddying is noticed you're in hot water. Notice that he didn't exactly try to stop the bandwagon on me earlier (he simply ignored it more or less) He did not see you as a potential ally back then, this stuff takes time, and only really started to buddy me after it became obvious that a bunch of scummy players tried to ram majority on me through less than 12 hours into the day. I'm pretty sure no matter how hard mafia tried you wouldn't have been lynched 12 hours into the day, idiots tend to not be the majority, or at least they shouldn't, because if they are we're utterly screwed anyways.


Well firstly yes, I noticed that you dropped your biggest scumtell in not defending HD, but questioning how I arrived at suspicion on him when it was patently obvious how I did so. This is a move you pull almost always when you are mafia (questioning the logic behind why people think your teammates are bad) and caused me to re-evaluate my read on you for obvious reasons. I don't see what is weird about this, you admitted yourself its a big scumtell that you've got. I have to agree with this.

I'm not being defensive lol "There's other stuff wrong with your post but frankly it's so nonsensical that going through line by line and pointing out the obvious ridiculous logical jumps is worth my time even less than it is to go through Gale's posts regarding me." Read this again... what else is this?, in what sense did you 'oppose my 110% legit towniness'? He is open to the possibility that you could be scum. Therefore he does not think you are 110% legit townie, as you put it. You questioned how I got to the conclusion that Haunted Diamond is scum, which is really not a matter of questioning me so much as either not reading my posts or selectively ignoring points. I've changed my lynch target a few times as better targets have come up, but Haunted Diamond has been a strong lynch candidate for most of the day and his recent posts are in full-on 'pls lynch anyone other than me' mode. You do realize that townies can have this tendency too...? People like to survive. I notice that you don't address Haunted Diamond's recent scummy play at all in your post and instead keep trying to both throw shade on his scummy play or ignore it, and you don't even seem to believe yourself when you mention the possibility of Haunted flipping village (like your post strongly suggests you think he will flip mafia).

Also, I am finally getting a little annoyed at you holding your vote for so long. Why not use it to pressure? Agree. Being too neutral is drawing a suspicious look from me once in a while as well. Like you are contributing but it seems like you aren't irritating or pushing anyone except for people who go after Haunted Diamond.

Haunted Diamond's play has been significantly worse than the other bandwagoners of late. Gale may be wrong and illogical, but he is trying to make reads and figure things out. He is just approaching it from the wrong perspective (ie he goes in with a pre-determined mindset and then sees everything through that lens rather than following the evidence and posting patterns to their logical conclusions This sounds like you're accusing Gale of exactly what mafia would do but you don't want him lynched. K.). Acidphoenix has been somewhat under-the-radar I guess but he has been more useful than either Pokeguy or Haunted Diamond with none of the scumtells of the other two. Once again, LYNCH HAUNTED DIAMOND!!! At least he's posting. Acidphoenix is not. Therefore in my opinion Haunted is more useful.

BTW: In case I was unclear, I am not against an HD lynch, but I think this should be further discussed.

Fixed my bold error.

 

[Da Letter El]

I've stated why I favor Gale over HD several times. I've felt there was a strong implication in my posts HD or acidphoenix would be my lynch the next day barring any idiot who goes about hammering the wrong guy. I've never stated I'm not in favor of lynching HD at all, just that he's playing so similarly to other shady players it's hard to tell which is which and I have more confidence in a Gale lynch, personally.

Unfortunately it's true I am too protective of my team. I don't even remember that second game ngl.

That being said, HD is not my partner and I have never implied he should be allowed to live beyond the next day barring some miraculous turnabout in his play.

Scumslip?

I felt Yeti's redirect onto Gale on page 6 or 7 was weird. Not that it's completely unreasonable or an obvious scumtell but it felt inauthentic. It felt as though Yeti built up cases against both acidphoenix and Haunted only be like "lol nvm." She of course explained why she did this - she went on to explain that a Gale lynch would give more information and that while Haunted and acid were scummy they hadn't done much in the way of an obvious slip or one that would implicate a partner. While probably true that a Gale lynch gives more information, the choice of Gale himself feels 1. incorrect, as his playstyle is pretty clearly trying to find scum, even with i disagree with his methods (which indicates he's town in my mind) and more importantly 2. specifically chosen to redirect the lynch away from someone else. I said earlier that I didn't see Haunted with anyone and felt his reaction to my inspect claim was genuine but I suppose it's just as possible for a mafia to not know the set up besides knowing they're mafia. I think if Haunted has a partner, it's Yeti, and if Yeti is mafia, her partner is someone who has received some amount of pressure today. I don't think a Yeti mafia takes it upon herself to try to push a sort of "third wheel" lynch target in Gale unless she feels like she needs to redirect off of someone.

I felt her earlier posts were fairly pro-town in actively trying to analyze the game, as I mentioned in a prior post, but it feels as though as the game has gone on Yeti has gotten slightly more set into her reads and less willing to hunt for scum and instead is pushing the reads she developed earlier than try to scumhunt. This is less of a scumread than it is a nullread on Yeti; that fits more with how Yeti would play regardless of alignment. I think she's way more null than town than I did at last post but she shouldn't be the lynch target. There's a fairly logical town narrative that still fits with Yeti's play; I just felt this was worth mentioning if the HD lynch continues.

Yeti do you find my assessment of your play -- even though you probably will disagree with being called "null" over town -- fair? Why or why not?

 

[Da Letter El]

ButteredToast is town his posts are way too honest to be mafia, UltrasPlot is town being TIK's sub and continuing to try to solve the game. If anyone disagrees with me on these two reads they need to fight me.

Gale has moved from slight town to probable town -- you judge gale off of the motives and stuff around his play rather than his play and talking itself because he's a fairly good liar and his actions and motives seem to be trying to solve the game. In a stubborn way sure but trying to find mafia nonetheless and he's actively trying to incorporate to a degree what was said in thread. When he's lying he doesn't try to fight your logic; he agrees with it and then ignores it. When he's telling the truth on what he believes he defends it. He defended his actions and how he's playing so I think he honestly believes that he is acting as a town player and not a manipulative scum.

 

[UncleSam]

Thank god you're finally posting

What are your thoughts on Celever/Haunted Diamond/Acidphoenix? What about Walrein or Spffy? And who do you want to lynch?

 

[Da Letter El]

So apparently acidphoenix only nullreads himself instead of townreads himself. k

acidphoenix do you think you are town? Why are you town?

His first few posts read as null clueless for the most part. He posts something about confirming Fire and Ice don't know each other and makes a point to go out of his way and say that "oh I only know this because I've played it elsewhere," which reads as a moderate scumtell, as 1. as mafia he would know Fire and Ice don't know each other and 2. he feels the defensive need to go out of his way to specify that he doesn't know this because he himself is mafia. Could just be him grasping at something he does actually know to contribute though, but the way it's written is fairly scummy. This is what I was referring to when I thought acidphoenix was a potential scum target since I thought that post was a potential slip.

Posts a bunch of null stuff but stuff that confirms his playstyle and experience which on the whole strings together as somewhat pro-town in that he's not trying to force a playstyle. Bandwagons pretty clearly onto the UncleSam lynch train, but on second thought admits as much pretty candidly; I'd expect someone newer to try to avoid the fact he did that as scum instead of outright admitting that the only reason he voted UncleSam is because other people gave good ideas on it, but still worth noting the bandwagon.

Then his reads post comes in, which outside of null reading himself instead of townreading himself is pretty solidly town. It shows he sat down to try to learn how to scumhunt and learn the game in a way that tries to help village. While it's always debatable if posting up a list of reads is really helpful or not, it signals an attempt from him to try to learn how to help town. The reads are consistent with his earlier thoughts and play: he disliked Celever pretty clearly from his defense of his main scumread to that point UncleSam, still holds him as scummy and his lack of explanation on sam in that post fits with how he already admitted how he mostly thinks Sam is scum because of the arguments other people laid out prior, and the ButteredToast read shows he's trying to think of the implications of why people are posting how they are which indicates town to me.

tl;dr acidphoenix probable town pending his answer to if he's town

 

[Da Letter El]

sorry was typing that out. Atm leaning spiffy or celever. Spiffy usually jumps out to me as obvious town when he's town and he hasn't done that so I'd be down for a Spiffyroll. I am missing the Spiffy godreads that I'm so used to seeing from the outside looking in that he never ends up pursuing because he's a pussy. Celever is probably my top scum atm but I haven't read all of his posts that in depth because there's a lot of them and a lot of yelling at Gale that I really don't want to have to sort through. I was about to do more analysis of the two of them as well as why I think Haunted is a below average lynch.

 

[Yeti]

Well firstly yes, I noticed that you dropped your biggest scumtell in not defending HD, but questioning how I arrived at suspicion on him when it was patently obvious how I did so. This is a move you pull almost always when you are mafia (questioning the logic behind why people think your teammates are bad) and caused me to re-evaluate my read on you for obvious reasons. I don't see what is weird about this, you admitted yourself its a big scumtell that you've got.

I wasn't defending HD, I was questioning you. Big difference. I am protective of my team, yes, but to my knowledge HD is not on my team, as I am town. Lo siento.

I'm not being defensive lol, in what sense did you 'oppose my 110% legit towniness'? You questioned how I got to the conclusion that Haunted Diamond is scum, which is really not a matter of questioning me so much as either not reading my posts or selectively ignoring points. I've changed my lynch target a few times as better targets have come up, but Haunted Diamond has been a strong lynch candidate for most of the day and his recent posts are in full-on 'pls lynch anyone other than me' mode. I notice that you don't address Haunted Diamond's recent scummy play at all in your post and instead keep trying to both throw shade on his scummy play or ignore it, and you don't even seem to believe yourself when you mention the possibility of Haunted flipping village (like your post strongly suggests you think he will flip mafia).

I addressed several scenarios in which you would be scum. Including TIK as your partner, I believe. You conveniently neglect this in favor of focusing on HD and trying to push me as his partner, after I suggested it about you. You really can't see the faulty logic here?

I intentionally neglected to comment on HD in that post. I agree his recent posts have been nothing but lynch deflection onto other players. Again, though, he is easy pickings. He's proven he can't very well defend himself, only try to contribute more. He's done that more than acidphoenix has but tbh that makes me think HD has more at stake than acidphoenix, so I find it more likely the former is mafia. You have been harping on HD all day, yeah, and again, you will bully him until you force a scumslip from him. Even if he isn't scum, he's probably going to act like it under your magnifying glass.

Notice how Gale has loosened up and begun posting a lot less scummily as the day went on, and I was the only person gunning for him? He doesn't even find me scummy for suspecting him. Once Gale was out of the hot seat he started reacting a lot less suspiciously and antagonistically. You aren't letting this happen with HD and acidphoenix is lurking along in the shadows. I just don't think these are players who are going to have a composed, calm defense.

So yes, I can see where HD might well flip village. It's hard to distinguish how he'd actually be playing if he wasn't under so much pressure, and if he'd be less scummy. Odds are, yeah, he's mafia.

Also, I am finally getting a little annoyed at you holding your vote for so long. Why not use it to pressure? Like you are contributing but it seems like you aren't irritating or pushing anyone except for people who go after Haunted Diamond.

idk how many times I have to say I never pressure vote in a NOC. I 'pushed' you and now look at the results, lol. You wonder why I didn't bother to try before. Cause now you're on this waste of time YETI IS CLEARLY HD'S PARTNER train. Yes, quite.

Scumslip?

No and the fact you nitpick that is shady. I'm an English major, I would never intentionally slip I have a partner lol.

I felt Yeti's redirect onto Gale on page 6 or 7 was weird. Not that it's completely unreasonable or an obvious scumtell but it felt inauthentic. It felt as though Yeti built up cases against both acidphoenix and Haunted only be like "lol nvm." She of course explained why she did this - she went on to explain that a Gale lynch would give more information and that while Haunted and acid were scummy they hadn't done much in the way of an obvious slip or one that would implicate a partner. While probably true that a Gale lynch gives more information, the choice of Gale himself feels 1. incorrect, as his playstyle is pretty clearly trying to find scum, even with i disagree with his methods (which indicates he's town in my mind) and more importantly 2. specifically chosen to redirect the lynch away from someone else. I said earlier that I didn't see Haunted with anyone and felt his reaction to my inspect claim was genuine but I suppose it's just as possible for a mafia to not know the set up besides knowing they're mafia. I think if Haunted has a partner, it's Yeti, and if Yeti is mafia, her partner is someone who has received some amount of pressure today. I don't think a Yeti mafia takes it upon herself to try to push a sort of "third wheel" lynch target in Gale unless she feels like she needs to redirect off of someone.

What are you talking about? I have been on Gale's case the entire game. He has always been my #1 lynch and the guy I found most suspicious. I have considered HD and acidphoenix interchangeable scummy noobtowns the entire game. To claim I pushed a Gale lynch out of nowhere/only after pressure onto HD, especially with the motivation to defend HD, is simply false and a scummy attempt to rewrite history and the facts.

If Haunted has a partner it is not me. You and Sam with this nonsense effort to pin a fake connection between us is pretty suspicious to me. I have no partner to receive pressure. All you're doing now is echoing what Sam has already said, and trying to undermine the person most considered town. What reason do you have to do that, hm? Don't want a strong townie to help the village, perhaps?

I felt her earlier posts were fairly pro-town in actively trying to analyze the game, as I mentioned in a prior post, but it feels as though as the game has gone on Yeti has gotten slightly more set into her reads and less willing to hunt for scum and instead is pushing the reads she developed earlier than try to scumhunt. This is less of a scumread than it is a nullread on Yeti; that fits more with how Yeti would play regardless of alignment. I think she's way more null than town than I did at last post but she shouldn't be the lynch target. There's a fairly logical town narrative that still fits with Yeti's play; I just felt this was worth mentioning if the HD lynch continues.

Again, inaccurate representation. If anything I have backed off on how convinced I was of Gale's scumminess. I haven't been pushing any reads, tbh. I've said most of these people are too difficult to tell for certain on Day One and changed my stance on others.

Yeti do you find my assessment of your play -- even though you probably will disagree with being called "null" over town -- fair? Why or why not?

No for the reasons addressed above, I think it pushes an agenda - the same as Sam's - for no town reason.

 

[Da Letter El]

What agenda would have me nullread you instead of try to push that somewhere? You've been an active player and it was worth giving my thoughts on you. Clearly you disagree with the content in it.

 

[Yeti]

What agenda would have me nullread you instead of try to push that somewhere? You've been an active player and it was worth giving my thoughts on you. Clearly you disagree with the content in it.

I do disagree and I think my posts support my statements as opposed to your interpretation. But, interpretations are just that. You want to put my contributions and opinions into some doubt but you don't want to do it too forcefully yet like Sam is.

The gay agenda DUH
I kno wat u did with moi.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

guys why am i still alive

 

[Haunted Diamond]

In case by some miracle I don't die today sub me out host I don't wanna play this anymore.

 

[Yeti]

you're still alive because we're waiting for other users to post a final summation of their thoughts for the day but you won't be once they do cause your behavior is just continually going downhill on the scum scale lol

like i said, sam's picking on a guy who can't defend himself. and won't even try to. i'm def in the HD flipping scum camp with these continued posts (similar to what gale did, but he corrected that behavior, so a town HD has no excuse to make these same mistakes). once PokeguyNXB posts and every loose end of discussion looks tied up i'll cast my vote on HD, he's too close to hammer to do it tonight and i'm going to bed.

 

[Haunted Diamond]

The town HD was playing for fun but lost that interest.

 

[UltrasPlot]

Hey UncleSam, I expect a response to my post. Since you're willing to call me out on the use of one pronoun, I think calling you out on ignoring my post is fair game.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Look... i'm sorry. I've just been having a shitty life recently... particularly with my parents blaming my electronics for yet ANOTHER screw-up on my part irl... and maaaaybe i've been taking it our here, because well... i get really stressed out over mafia, i don't sign up for a game to be called out as scum and die before anyone else.

Anyways, time for some reasonable contribution. But first... Dle has posted! Unvote

As scummy this may seem, i agree that HD is our best lynch for today. I say this is scummy because other than HD, i'm the main lynch target thus far... but i honestly believe this is our best option for the reasons stated above. However i'm not voting until i'm told i can hammer (or someone else can hammer).

If you'd like more, i'm willing to provide it

 

[Celever]

re: Celever vs Gale Wing Srock:

While not all of Gale's points are relevant or correct (it's true that Obbmud was not scum with us as far as I remember, and I don't really think referring to the town as such is a scumslip), Celever's defense was incredibly antagonistic and snarky, similar to how he's been acting all game, and in my experience this is pretty out of character for him. Also Celever you have 100% referred to the town as "the town" this game. If you want me to find an example I will.

Still, I already had him as a scumread so this doesn't really change much.

re: Haunted Diamond:

rofl

unvote
Lynch Haunted Diamond

Sorry about that I guess. I'm not one to focus on my tone too much, my tone will translate to how I'm feeling at that point, and I'd just had a fight with my Dad when I made the post.

1) Celever, US was tagged in that post as Leaning Town :o

2) Obbmud99 was scum in that game :o

3) Walrein has also seen your post, and I can quote you if you want.

Your other replies are just brushing things under the rug. Similar to how US reacts to Spiffy's scum reads on him.

1) Spiffy was tagged in the same post as my strongest town read in the game, and I defended DLE (while tagging him) against some of the accusations against him in the very same post. UncleSam was the user I defended the least in that post, so there is no reason why you would think I was hinting at US to ignore you over Spiffy or DLE...

2) He really wasn't, as you've now figured out. Take a deep breath and think before you post, seriously.

3) I will have 100% also referred to the town as the town in Mario Kart NOC, where I was town, because I've been doing it since my very first game. It's not a scum slip, but waste your time and quote it if you want to.

It wasn't brushing them under the rug, it was actually just showing why the "accusations" are logically flawed. You can't reply to what I said because you know it too -- you just don't want to admit it.

It may be my inexperience, but I feel that Haunted Diamond / Pokeguy have exhibited scummy behavior so blatantly that, we could easily lynch them on the following days. But Celever is a tricky player, as in he will definitely try to hide his tracks in the coming days, while getting the remaining of HD and Pokeguy lynched on Day 2.

I'm not even that good a player lol. Arguably better than HD and Pokeguy, sure, but that just means that hypothetically assuming we are all town you'll miss me more than you will HD or Pokeguy. I think that HD is probably mafia anyway, so this isn't relevant, just pointing it out.

Also something I've thought about with my playstyle is that when I'm town experienced players read me as town and newer players read me as scum, whereas when I'm scum experienced players read me as scum and newer players read me as town. It's just something I've happened to notice, aaaaaand... guess who's reading me as town thus far?

Also Yeti you didn't show my targets in your post, so I guess I'll make it clearer. Obviously my #1 suspect is Haunted Diamond, but my #2 is actually UltrasPlot. He seems to be acting like Gale, but while I know that Gale acts like he does at town, I don't know that UltrasPlot does, so he's just playing scummy right now.

 

[UltrasPlot]

Sorry about that I guess. I'm not one to focus on my tone too much, my tone will translate to how I'm feeling at that point, and I'd just had a fight with my Dad when I made the post.


1) Spiffy was tagged in the same post as my strongest town read in the game, and I defended DLE (while tagging him) against some of the accusations against him in the very same post. UncleSam was the user I defended the least in that post It doesn't matter how much you defend him, you're still defending him, so there is no reason why you would think I was hinting at US to ignore you over Spiffy or DLE...

2) He really wasn't, as you've now figured out. Take a deep breath and think before you post, seriously.

3) I will have 100% also referred to the town as the town in Mario Kart NOC, where I was town, because I've been doing it since my very first game. It's not a scum slip, but waste your time and quote it if you want to.

It wasn't brushing them under the rug, it was actually just showing why the "accusations" are logically flawed. You can't reply to what I said because you know it too -- you just don't want to admit it. Or you're just brushing them under the rug, not showing that the accusations are logically flawed. You can't reply to this too -- you just don't want to admit it. It goes both ways.

I'm not even that good a player lol. I've lurked enough smogon mafia to know what you're capable of Arguably better than HD and Pokeguy, sure, but that just means that hypothetically assuming we are all town you'll miss me more than you will HD or Pokeguy. That is close to impossible at this point... I think that HD is probably mafia anyway, so this isn't relevant, just pointing it out. Once again, HD is probably mafia, lynch HD, ignore me

Also something I've thought about with my playstyle is that when I'm town experienced players read me as town and newer players read me as scum, whereas when I'm scum experienced players read me as scum and newer players read me as town. I'm town because I'm being read as scum! Yeah! It's just something I've happened to notice, aaaaaand... guess who's reading me as town thus far? I may be new here but I have quite a bit of experience... your point is invalid

Also Yeti you didn't show my targets in your post, so I guess I'll make it clearer. Obviously my #1 suspect is Haunted Diamond, but my #2 is actually UltrasPlot. He seems to be acting like Gale, but while I know that Gale acts like he does at town, I don't know that UltrasPlot does, so he's just playing scummy right now. So I'm acting like Gale now? wut? I'm going to call you out on this OMGUS since I'm hot on the trail of a potential scum partnership?

 

[Celever]

^ Not going to bother responding to that until you make sensical accusations and read the post properly.