Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[tmacbalanced]

Braviary from B+ to A- rank maybe??? - Honestly I think this guy may be worthy of A- rank just because of how great of an offensive attacker it is. Braviary does have good enough coverage & an awesome attack stat that pairs up nicely with the ability "defiant"; reason why I bring up the ability is due to the rise of Flygon. I really like the choice scarf set the most since, being able to outspeed some pokemon like Jolteon & Virizion is pretty awesome as it puts on amazing pressure on your opponent.

 

[-kal-]

Togetic from A- to B+: Agree
Initially when Cobalion left many people thought that Togetic will rise in terms of viability. However, this is not the case. Cobalion leaving have increased the popularity of Mega Glalie, Tyrantrum, and Sneasel, all of which can beat Togetic. The prevalence of Knock Off with Cobalion leaving also hinders Togetic as it abhors losing its Eviolite. Its also not always going to come out on top against Tangrowth, Scrafty, and Flygon. Tangrowth runs Sludge Bomb nowadays while most Roseli Scrafty are rising in popularity which means it can potentially take on a weakened Togetic one-on-one. Togetic can still take on Flygon but Choice Band Iron Tail will deal a lot of damage to it. Overall, I do not see Togetic being a A- Pokemon in the tier anymore due to the rise of the aforementioned threats as well as the fact that the Pokemon that Togetic usually checks will not always lose to it.

Piloswine from B- to B: Agree
Don't really have too much experience with this mon but from what i've seen, its not that bad atm. Being able to check pertinent threats such as Mega Glalie, Tyrantrum, Flygon, and Sneasel is really great. It has great dual STAB combination that can threaten the majority of the tier. Fighting-types and Bulky Waters does kinda suck for this, but even with those hindrances it can go up a rank imo.

 

[Kingler]

i mean togetic is a complete momentum sucker EVEN WITH bp, but it counters flygon, viriz and scrafty, threatening dudes for slower teams. although you could use a scarfer like emboar it's more reliable to have a solid af check to it. it's also a great tangrowth check especially for more offensive sets. knock off may be a bitch but defogging is rly nice and its bulk is still p good. also it's not VERY easy to take advantage of unless u have like a tyrantrum and that's probably the only thing on most teams that does so. so ya toge in a- is fine imo :)

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

Granbul from B- to B
While doing calcs for the victim of the week, I realized Granbull is pretty decent in the meta right now. I've been using the defensive set with great success. It fills a similar role on teams as Togetic, but is not as crippled by Knock Off, actually packs an offensive presence, and has earthquake coverage. It counters Scrafty, Flygon, physical Virizion, and the vast majority of fighters in the tier. It can also weaken switch ins with earthquake or thunder wave. Granbull also doesn't lose as much momentum as Togetic. It does miss out on active recovery and can be worn down, that's why I'm only nominating Granbull for B.

For what it's worth, the Choice Band set is an option as well. With the right coverage move, it can 2HKO the most common defensive mons in the tier after Stealth Rock (though Alomomola can survive thanks to protect and leftovers recovery). Only more obscure mons like Mega Audino, Weezing, and Cofagrigus are 3HKO. Without investment, it doesn't have great bulk and it's quite slow, so it's a rather niche wallbreaker.

 

[g]

qwilfish for a-

It is probably the best Spikes user in the tier thanks to its speed and amazing typing and access to taunt. It has a great matchup against a myriad of top tier threats including Glalie (without Freeze Dry), Scrafty (faster Taunt and Twave), Alomomola (Spikes fodder), Sneasel (can twave/scald and take a few hits), Durant, Emboar, Hitmonlee, and Bronzong and having a decent check to all of these is simply invaluable for offensive teams that can compress all of this in a teamslot. With Intimidate it is also generally good as a safe emergency check also to stuff like Tyrantrum that can hit it neutrally and without being a free switch for common Pokemon that trouble balanced teams such as Sigilyph thanks to the threat of Thunder Wave. It is also a great way both to set and check Toxic Spikes which are niche but always dangerous. Downsides are the popularity of stuff like Tangrowth and Flygon against which it struggles really but it is really really solid and on par if not better than Pokemon such as Bronzong and Jolteon regarding the utility they bring to a team.

 

[Mar1onette]

Braviary from B+ to A- rank maybe??? - Honestly I think this guy may be worthy of A- rank just because of how great of an offensive attacker it is. Braviary does have good enough coverage & an awesome attack stat that pairs up nicely with the ability "defiant"; reason why I bring up the ability is due to the rise of Flygon. I really like the choice scarf set the most since, being able to outspeed some pokemon like Jolteon & Virizion is pretty awesome as it puts on amazing pressure on your opponent.

yeah braviary is somewhat fast and can set up, but its completely walled by one of the most common pokes in RU, mega Steelix which can actually set up in braviary's face with curse. its also walled by bronzong and rhyperior who're both fairly common in RUand can also be stalled down by defensive wish protect mola .

252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 181-214 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 318-375 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

braviary also has "mediocre" defenses on both sides and can be outspeed unburden hitmonlee but still granted braviary is still a great poke in RU with wut it can check, rek, counter, and that it has pivot, i'd say its fine where its at for now because of all of its checks/counters that r common threats in RU

 

[tmacbalanced]

yeah braviary is somewhat fast and can set up, but its completely walled by one of the most common pokes in RU, mega Steelix which can actually set up in braviary's face with curse. its also walled by bronzong and rhyperior who're both fairly common in RUand can also be stalled down by defensive wish protect mola .

252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 181-214 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 318-375 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

braviary also has "mediocre" defenses on both sides and can be outspeed unburden hitmonlee but still granted braviary is still a great poke in RU with wut it can check, rek, counter, and that it has pivot, i'd say its fine where its at for now because of all of its checks/counters that r common threats in RU

In all honesty, that's why Braviary has "u-turn" as a move. It can switch out & bring in momentum.
Still though, so long as Alamomola is slightly weakened, Braviary has a nice chance knock it out, which isn't too bad considering the fact that Braviary can work well on hazards teams thanks to it's ability.
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Brave Bird vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 318-375 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
Also, not many physical attackers can really do too much damage to Rhyperior anyways lol.
252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 411-485 (94.9 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
130 Base Power combined with STAB, times 2 super effective, & Reckless as the ability with Life Orb, still not a guaranteed OHKO. Adamant nature too to boot.
What's great about Braviary is that it can work well against some top tier threats like, Flygon, Mega-Glalie (without ice shard), Scrafty, Virizion, etc.
It can fit rather nicely on teams but you did bring up greats points, & that is why I said, "maybe".

 

[Punchshroom]

its not about who can do wut to rhyperior its wut can braviary do to rhyperior, and u put 3 layers of spikes, thats redundant to put all 3 layers when u in most situations wont be getting that many up, yes pokes like qwilfish is gud a spike stacking but dont get over-confident that u can get all 3 of them up each time, and normal gem unburden hitmonlee runs adamant and uses fake out first. i also already pointed out that it has pivot in the form of u-turn, i acknowledged that it had it.

I've been noticing your posts for a while, and you really should conduct more research before making posts. Normal Gem Unburden Hitmonlee has been viewed by many to be a mere gimmick at this point and is barely even considered when teambuilding.

qwilfish for a-

It is probably the best Spikes user in the tier thanks to its speed and amazing typing and access to taunt. It has a great matchup against a myriad of top tier threats including Glalie (without Freeze Dry), Scrafty (faster Taunt and Twave), Alomomola (Spikes fodder), Sneasel (can twave/scald and take a few hits), Durant, Emboar, Hitmonlee, and Bronzong and having a decent check to all of these is simply invaluable for offensive teams that can compress all of this in a teamslot. With Intimidate it is also generally good as a safe emergency check also to stuff like Tyrantrum that can hit it neutrally and without being a free switch for common Pokemon that trouble balanced teams such as Sigilyph thanks to the threat of Thunder Wave. It is also a great way both to set and check Toxic Spikes which are niche but always dangerous. Downsides are the popularity of stuff like Tangrowth and Flygon against which it struggles really but it is really really solid and on par if not better than Pokemon such as Bronzong and Jolteon regarding the utility they bring to a team.

I don't know if I agree with this, because I feel that the best Spikes user in the tier is

Its immense Speed means it can set up Spikes against almost any opponent. Encore means the foe can't set up alongside of Accel, and can even be used to catch setup sweepers such as Dragon Dance Scrafty and lock them into the move. Final Gambit will ensure any Defogger or Spinner won't clear the hazards, provided they even survive the hit in the first place (PISS OFF TOGETIC). And even if they attempt to bait the Final Gambit, Accelgor can mix it up with U-turn to play even more mindgames with the foe. Accelgor can even drop the pretense and go full offensive with 3 attacks + Spikes (which Qwilfish cannot do), using its killer Speed and strong moves to lay the hurt on foes and Spiking up on bulky walls that it can't KO (Aromatisse comes to mind).

 

[tmacbalanced]

its not about who can do wut to rhyperior its wut can braviary do to rhyperior.

Well, it still does have to do with that, I'm saying Braviary isn't the only physical attacker that has trouble with Rhyperior, I mean he is like one of the best physical tankers in the tier. I mean, each pokemon is bound to have a few checks & counters, if they didn't they'd be OP & tested/banned.

and u put 3 layers of spikes, thats redundant to put all 3 layers when u in most situations wont be getting that many up

Actually, I put in two spikes, figured it'd be a good enough number.

and normal gem unburden hitmonlee runs adamant and uses fake out first.

Punchroom already got this & I wholeheartedly agree with his statement.

i also already pointed out that it has pivot in the form of u-turn, i acknowledged that it had it.

I saw your message before you edited it with that in all honesty.

I don't know if I agree with this, because I feel that the best Spikes user in the tier is

Its immense Speed means it can set up Spikes against almost any opponent. Encore means the foe can't set up alongside of Accel, and can even be used to catch setup sweepers such as Dragon Dance Scrafty and lock them into the move. Final Gambit will ensure any Defogger or Spinner won't clear the hazards, provided they even survive the hit in the first place (PISS OFF TOGETIC). And even if they attempt to bait the Final Gambit, Accelgor can mix it up with U-turn to play even more mindgames with the foe. Accelgor can even drop the pretense and go full offensive with 3 attacks + Spikes (which Qwilfish cannot do), using its killer Speed and strong moves to lay the hurt on foes and Spiking up on bulky walls that it can't KO (Aromatisse comes to mind).

In all honesty, I feel Accelgor should up go a rank just because of how great she does her jobs but, maybe that's going too far. I used this guy a lot, & even in higher tiers due to his speed lol but in all seriousness he is a great spiker with spectacular speed & momentum. I just feel that she is B+ because she doesn't do enough damage to the meta & requires some support because of that (excluding final gambit etc.). I don't know, any thoughts?

 

[Lord Death Man]

In all honesty, I feel Accelgor should up go a rank just because of how great she does her jobs but, maybe that's going too far. I used this guy a lot, & even in higher tiers due to his speed lol but in all seriousness he is a great spiker with spectacular speed & momentum. I just feel that she is B+ because she doesn't do enough damage to the meta & requires some support because of that (excluding final gambit etc.). I don't know, any thoughts?

I'd fully support Accelgor up to A-. It being on the enemy team can really force my lead, and the LO set can really mess with those plans (or kill my counterlead). It has really good coverage between Bug Buzz, Sludge Bomb, Energy Ball and Focus Blast as well, and naturally outpaces scarfs up to base 80 which can be a godsend on offensive sets.

The offensive set is only decent on it's own merits unfortunately, and often desires spikes to get KOs and 2hkos (Energy Ball only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO rhyperior without spikes, for example), which is can't always drop for itself, but it's still a cool set. And relying on Focus Blast for a mon like that can suck. But a lot of teams, especially offensive teams and balance teams relying on a scarf with base 80 speed like Medicham, have nothing for it.

 

[MrAldo]

Regarding the spikers, I also believe that accelgor is a bit better than qwilfish right now cause it has the ability to touch flygon without compromising too much of its movepool which I think it is pretty invaluable given how good flygon is at clearing hazards(qwilfish can run ice beam and it is neat cause it catches flygon off-guard but I have to give up either t-wave or something else with stinks) when accelgor has the advantage to accomodate its movepool to what the team needs. But the utility qwilfish provides to offensive teams is pretty invaluable as well and it can taunt the defoggers to protect the hazards against the common defoggers on the switch (if accelgor had taunt this discussion wouldnt be necessary) Given that, I do believe both of them should rise to A- or stay B+. This is actually an interesting discussion, me likes.

Piloswine up to B: Made the nom in another post but it was covered by unnecessary ranting about a deleted post (lol) so just nominate it again. Given that mega glalie is pretty dominant and sneasel is a really good mon on its own merits, piloswine finds some use given it can handle both of them really well (even though it hates losing its eviolite but what can you do). It handles mega glalie so well and it can actually check fire types pretty nicely outside of emboar which is pretty invaluable tbh. It needs wish support to function efficiently and it is vulnerable to all hazards with no recovery but it is a solid mon and I truly believe it should move up to B

Togetic to stay A-: I use this a lot so I do believe it should stay in A-. Pretty efficient hazard remover, even though SR weakness blows, and the typing to handle many fighting types really well are a given but togetic actually a pretty neat movepool and tools to not be a complete momentum killer or setup bait, togetic having thunder wave or encore (which is a pretty neat move to have on this) let it be able to play around a lot of things and we know how annoying getting paralyzed is. Inherent bad matchup against many hazard setters kind of blows (drapion, qwilfish, mega glalie) but it could run fire blast given the chance. I do believe it is a solid A- mon still, even with sneasel and mega glalie on the rise.

No comments on mega camel, which I would use it more.

 

[Cheryl.]

Time to post my thoughts on current topics:

Piloswine from B- to B: Mega Glailie and Sneasel are monsters right now, so Piloswine is pretty good with Thick Fat. It can set up Rocks, hit pretty hard with EQ and Ice STAB, and is really bulky with Eviolite, however, it relies on that Eviolite and has no revovery, but I support the rise.

Togetic from A- to B+: Although I don't use Togetic a lot, I think it can stay A-. It's got defog, although the SR weakness hurts, and the typing help it counter fighting types. It's even got Roost or Wish for recovery. It's also got NastyPass, which is pretty cool. Although the weakness to hazard setters and the rising Ice type hurts, I think Togetic is still solid and should stay A-.

Mega Camerupt from B+ to A-: Definetely agree, it's an awesome wallbreaker with pretty good bulk, it can even set up SR. Problems are shit for speed and weaknesses to common types, but imo it deserves a rise.

The two Spikers from B+ to A-: I dunno, I like them both, I think Accelgor could rise, I really like the LO set, as unlike Qwilfish, it can touch Flygon. It's got the best speed and pretty good special attack, but it's frail. Qwilfish has Intimidate to check some common types, and has cool stuff like TWave and Destiny Bond, I think both can use a rise.

Braviary from B+ to A-: Haven't used Braviary much lately, so I don't know how good he is.

Escavalier from B+ to B: Honestly, I find Escavalier to be pregtty underwhelming. Sure, it hits hard and has good bulk, but it's super slow and has no recovery, and it's tough to fit him onto a team, really it's only good right now as a Fairy check or a Meloetta counter, I think it should drop.
Now for a nom of my own:

Exploud from B+ to A-
I dunno why this thing dropped, but now it should rise. With Cobalion gone, there is one less resist that could kill Exploud. Specs Scrappy Boomburst is of course super strong, and it's got coverage like Fire Blast to kill stuff like MegaLix. It's just too powerful to be B+. Anything neutrally hit by Boomburst are either OHKOed or 2HKOed (Or it's soundproof and then you cry lol) While Exploud has some flaws, like being slow and frail, that's why I'm not nomming it for A or A+ (If the tier was based on power, it would be S lol) Overall, Exploud is just a really good pokemon right now and should rise to A-.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I don't think Escavalier should be dropped. I understand that it's slow and lacks recovery, but those flaws are only what keep it from being dominant in RU. It hits hard, is bulky, and has a great defensive typing, just as you said. Being a Fairy check and meloetta counter is actually extremely good. In fact, the great thing about Escavalier is that it can comfortably check a large number of threats in RU: Mega Glalie, Meloetta, Sneasel, Bronzong, Aromatisse, Togetic, and Tangrowth are a few of those. Overcoat is also great to take on the aforementioned Tangrowth as it's immune to Sleep Powder. This is great, but it's even better when you combine this with the fact that Escavalier can capitalize on these switch ins by punishing with a super powerful Megahorn or Iron Head, and Drill Run as coverage will keep things like Emboar on their toes and make them wary of switching in. It can take on these threats, then get a kill in. That's what it does, and it's good at that. With CB it hits super hard, or you could go for an Assault Vest to become more specially durable and still hit hard. Occa Berry is also pretty legitimate to take on the odd HP Fire Tangrowth or something like that. Escav's great qualities are definitely more prominent than its flaws so it shouldn't move down, especially when it was extremely good for most of last gen for the reasons I just stated

Its slow speed and lack of recovery keep it from being in the A Ranks, but I think Escavalier deserves its B+ rank because of its ability to check a lot of shit in this tier while still packing a massive punch. It has pretty good company in B+ in my opinion, as I think it's as viable as Druddigon, Drapion, and Spiritomb among the rest of B+, all good but not great mons.

I do agree with most of the other noms though.

 

[ss234]

Esca is fine in B+ imo, dealing with melo, glalie and tangrowth all in one slot can be very useful and esca isn't a complete momentum killer.

About the spikers, I feel that comparing qwilfish and accelgor is wrong because qwilfish brings so much utility defensively unlike accelgor. Qwilfish is a great answer for things like durant, sneasel,emboar etc., absorbs tspikes and can taunt bulky waters. Accelgor provides no defensive synergy at all so only works as a suicide lead(which is a B+ niche). Not saying that qwilfish should be A- as I'm kind of on the fence, but saying accelgor is the better spiker is wrong.

I'd support exploud for A-, if we have stuff like bronzong and delphox there then it makes sense to put one of the best balance / stall breakers in the tier there.

 

[tmacbalanced]

Accelgor provides no defensive synergy at all so only works as a suicide lead(which is a B+ niche).

True, Accelgor doesn't provide much defensively but I have to disagree with that last part because of what Punchshroom said.

Its immense Speed means it can set up Spikes against almost any opponent. Encore means the foe can't set up alongside of Accel, and can even be used to catch setup sweepers such as Dragon Dance Scrafty and lock them into the move. And even if they attempt to bait the Final Gambit, Accelgor can mix it up with U-turn to play even more mindgames with the foe. Accelgor can even drop the pretense and go full offensive with 3 attacks + Spikes (which Qwilfish cannot do), using its killer Speed and strong moves to lay the hurt on foes and Spiking up on bulky walls that it can't KO (Aromatisse comes to mind).

 

[g]

True, Accelgor doesn't provide much defensively but I have to disagree with that last part because of what Punchshroom said.

For an offensive team having a Spikes user that can come in with relative ease on Pokemon such as Emboar and Hitmonlee as well as Glalie to an extent and set up Spikes is pretty amazing and the fact that it can taunt Pokemon such as Omastar/Crustle leads as well as Bronzong is something you are grossly underrating while considering accelgor tends to get only 1 layer up or 2 maximum per game and can only come in on a free switch while Qwilfish can set up multiple times (and also has the option to lay Tspikes). Not to say that Accelgor is bad but Qwilfish is just 10 times more useful in a lot of matchups.

 

[Punchshroom]

For an offensive team having a Spikes user that can come in with relative ease on Pokemon such as Emboar and Hitmonlee as well as Glalie to an extent and set up Spikes is pretty amazing and the fact that it can taunt Pokemon such as Omastar/Crustle leads as well as Bronzong is something you are grossly underrating while considering accelgor tends to get only 1 layer up or 2 maximum per game and can only come in on a free switch while Qwilfish can set up multiple times (and also has the option to lay Tspikes). Not to say that Accelgor is bad but Qwilfish is just 10 times more useful in a lot of matchups.

While Qwilfish's utility is undeniably useful, Accelgor is just as flexible of a Spike stacker due to its Speed and options. While Accel doesn't fare as well against Spikes leads (SR leads just get Encored and forced out, letting Accel do more stuff), at least Accel doesn't give a free switch into the premier Defogger in the tier unless u start running like Ice Beam Qwilfish or some ridiculous shit. Even against bulky teams Accel can contribute with Final Gambit which can just pick off a mon / heavily damage them on the spot. Plus Accel can pull off an offensive set to decent success and can even revenge shit while still performing Spiking duties reasonably. Qwilfish is good but saying it is 10 times more useful than Accel many matchups is pretty downright wrong imo; Accel is more than capable of holding its own.

 

[tehy]

i'd like to chip in and personally say I fear qwil far more than Accelgor

Accelgor is a suicide lead, nothing more. it can't switch in on shit all game and keep spiking, so i just need to get it out of the picture and Defog. qwilfish can obviously not do that and keep coming in, it isn't forced to final gambit to reject defog which is cool. Destiny Bond is also quite the conundrum-inducing move. But really, just the threat of spikes all game (and T-spikes!) is what really makes me fear qwilfish.

offensive Accelgor may be underrated, though. It honestly has very nice coverage and obviously that crazy speed. Too bad it's a bit weak and obviously super frail.

 

[phantom]

About the spikers, I feel that comparing qwilfish and accelgor is wrong because qwilfish brings so much utility defensively unlike accelgor.

^ This. The whole comparisons to Qwilfish and Accelgor are off base. Sure Accelgor can get up Spikes quickly and a bit more easily than Qwilfish, but that's really all it does, aside from pulling off a niche offensive set which has difficulty assuring more than one layer unlike the Sash set. Qwilfish has some incredible defensive merit as a result of its typing + intimidate which give it much more use and is the reason why it's being nominated to move up in the first place. It's not so much that Qwilfish is explicitly the better Spiker, it's that Qwilfish offers way more to the table in terms of utility aside from setting up spikes including as mentioned above, a Water-resist, various check to a series of obnoxious offensive threats, and of course a T-spikes sponge. Furthermore, you guys really underrate how powerful Spikes users with longevity are vs defensive teams. Spikes Accelgor is sticking around and getting up a layer or two during the first few moments of the match at most; Qwilfish on the other hand has the chance to stick around for a long ass time and continually reset Spikes even if you clear them off thanks to its access to Pain Split to keep itself healthy. To me, it's undeniable that Qwilfish is just more useful in a typical match, so I can see it being in A- as a result of all of its other traits in addition to its power as a Spiker.

 

[trc]

these comparisons dont even make sense punch, the entire premise of qwilfish isn't just based on its ability to set spikes, rather its defensive utility in checking a number of threats, giving it free turns to do so. I think you are confused about the wording of galbias post saying it is probably the best spiker, which doesn't mean it is the best pokemon at solely getting up its spikes, but rather it is the best pokemon in the tier that uses spikes on its main set. comparing it to accelgor seems really off base in that regard when having the ability to defensively check many threats gives qwilfish a lot more merit as a teamslot. accelgor and qwilfish are used on different types of teams anyway so im not sure what you are trying to accomplish with that comparison.

 

[tehy]

i've seen plenty of people either use Lefties Qwil as a suicide lead or even using focus sash qwil as a suicide lead outright; that's probably the sense that Punchshroom was comparing them.

and honestly, they're used on a lot of the same teams.

but, yes, the strength of Qwilfish is that it doesn't need to be played as a suicide lead, and in fact has serious utility outside of this role.

 

[Lord Death Man]

I want to nominate Ludicolo for C-rank on the merits of the stand-alone offensive Rain Dance set - it's dual stabs really destroy Balance teams (even unboosted), it's boosted speed can be rough for them to handle,and ice beam is increasingly good at clearing out the few mons balance would use to check Grass and Water type attacks. As Tangrowth overtakes Amoonguss as people's go-to bulky grass, many Balance teams have absolutely nothing for this monster. At the same time, it can't break some weirder balance mons like Sp Def togetic (the ladder loves this and, honestly, it's not bad). It really punches holes in balance or can clean late game, but is held back by it's only decent bulk and the setup requirement to truly clean against faster balance mons.
It outspeeds scarfs up to positive nature base 90s (and I know adamant scarfgon is pretty decently popular).

some random calcs bc i didn't know what to calc

Hide

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 192-227 (61.3 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse in Rain: 329-387 (81 - 95.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Jellicent: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Glalie in Rain: 363-426 (120.5 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clawitzer: 299-354 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 164-192 (45 - 52.7%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery barely misses the 2hko on one of the single bulkiest mons available!
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta in Rain: 242-286 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Mar1onette]

I want to nominate Ludicolo for C-rank on the merits of the stand-alone offensive Rain Dance set - it's dual stabs really destroy Balance teams (even unboosted), it's boosted speed can be rough for them to handle,and ice beam is increasingly good at clearing out the few mons balance would use to check Grass and Water type attacks. As Tangrowth overtakes Amoonguss as people's go-to bulky grass, many Balance teams have absolutely nothing for this monster. At the same time, it can't break some weirder balance mons like Sp Def togetic (the ladder loves this and, honestly, it's not bad). It really punches holes in balance or can clean late game, but is held back by it's only decent bulk and the setup requirement to truly clean against faster balance mons.
It outspeeds scarfs up to positive nature base 90s (and I know adamant scarfgon is pretty decently popular).

some random calcs bc i didn't know what to calc

Hide

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 192-227 (61.3 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aromatisse in Rain: 329-387 (81 - 95.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Jellicent: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Glalie in Rain: 363-426 (120.5 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Clawitzer: 299-354 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel in Rain: 164-192 (45 - 52.7%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery barely misses the 2hko on one of the single bulkiest mons available!
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta in Rain: 242-286 (70.9 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

i c the point your trying to make but, you dont always get the opportunity to set up rain, u wont always have it, and if you do your limited on what you can do with it that is the down side of this, but since you argument is its strengths in rain i suppose its a viable argument. but here r some problems i see with your calcs, on pokes like clawitzer and meloetta especially u gave them nothing besides the 4 spd invesment in clawitzer, meloetta runs HP invesment in almost ALL of its sets besides maybe pirouette and scarf. every other set has either hp invesment and or spd investment in AV or just plain investment. and after asking around the RU room, iv'e been told that clawitzer's "best" or some of its most used sets are specs and AV when it invests in HP and spa and that it occasionally runs AV, granted the pkm calculator only has the set with max spa and max speed. i dont really have an opinion for ludicolo going to C if it goes or not doesnt really bother me, i just wanted to point these flaws in the calcs out because they were just annoying/bothering me ;_;. but for the most part you have good calc's i suppose and i wish u GL on this Nomination of Ludicolo to C ;D
for clawitzer the ev's i was told for the specs and AV set were max Spa and max HP Modest iirc, just if u want to run the calcs for that with ludicolo vs clawitzer

 

[-kal-]

i c the point your trying to make but, you dont always get the opportunity to set up rain, u wont always have it, and if you do your limited on what you can do with it that is the down side of this, but since you argument is its strengths in rain i suppose its a viable argument. but here r some problems i see with your calcs, on pokes like clawitzer and meloetta especially u gave them nothing besides the 4 spd invesment in clawitzer, meloetta runs HP invesment in almost ALL of its sets besides maybe pirouette and scarf. every other set has either hp invesment and or spd investment in AV or just plain investment. and after asking around the RU room, iv'e been told that clawitzer's "best" or most used set is when it invests in HP and spa and that it occasionally runs AV, granted the pkm calculator only has the set with max spa and max speed. i dont really have an opinion for ludicolo going to C- if it goes or not doesnt really bother me, i just wanted to point these flaws in the calcs out because they were just annoying/bothering me ;_;. but for the most part you have good calc's i suppose and i wish u GL on this Nomination of Ludicolo to C- ;D
for clawitzer the ev's i was told for the specs and AV set were max Spa and max HP Modest iirc, just if u want to run the calcs for that with ludicolo vs clawitzer

Clawitzer's most common set atm is LO with speed investment while AV is not that great of a set on it. Meloetta will always run maximum speed investment in order to outspeed many huge threats in RU such as Scrafty, Hitmonlee, and Tyrantrum on all of its sets unless it is Substitute + CM. Like what Punch said, you should really do more research on more research on RU before you make any posts.

 

[Lord Death Man]

The calc on Meloetta was to show how it deals with one of the most specially bulky offensive mons in the tier without a SE hit. It usually 2hkos, by the way.
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Meloetta in Rain: 183-216 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. You beat most clawitzer sets 1 v 1 - LO doesn't OHKO and AV doesn't 2hko after the Giga Drain heal.

Those calcs were really random mons, but answering this also lets me address two additional points - you don't *actually* need to set up to break the very common Rhyperior or Megalix + Alomomola or Jellicent + Tangrowth + Fairy type teams into pieces - Rain Dance is more so you're not dead weight against offense than anything else.

Further, it sets up on (and then beats) Almomola, Jellicent, Clawitzer, Mega Camerupt, Mega Steelix, non-megahorn Rhyperior (why would it stay in?), physically defensive Togetic, Physically defensive Aromatisse (this one is the shakiest I think), Bronzong, Cofagrigus, Gastrodon and Jolteon, and most teams have at least one of those. I suggested C and not any higher because it has very little switch in chances and it horrendously weak to status if it wants to run Ice Beam, and has sort of pitiful power if it runs Sub (Sub Mystic Water is still a legit set but it does worse against offense imo). It can't ohko the very common Viriz and it's scared of Amoonguss, even though Amoonguss can't switch in freely.

I guess it also has a chance to set up on Dugtrio or Durant but those I wouldn't risk it (Band Durant crunch doesn't KO!)

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Amoonguss: 234-278 (54.1 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery