The BG probably was on UncleSam...
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NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.
- Thread starter The Diabolic Gift
- Start date
- Status
Aight bad day I broke the lathe in the workshop and came home to a NOC game.
But anyway let's get on with Cancerous's semi-daily contribution corner.
I thought I did well on the report, some people found it to be funny. Saying that I'm scum for not exceeding your expectation is a little bit too much. The rest of that post is to address the 2 questions that people have been tagging me for answer. Why is this unhelpful or regurgitated?
But anyway let's get on with Cancerous's semi-daily contribution corner.
What is this some kind of alcohol induced texting.
I thought I did well on the report, some people found it to be funny. Saying that I'm scum for not exceeding your expectation is a little bit too much. The rest of that post is to address the 2 questions that people have been tagging me for answer. Why is this unhelpful or regurgitated?
I've stated my point on gale, and that's the best I can do.
Gale Wing Srock I'm expecting a response to my earlier post. Why did you claim to know that the BG wasn't on US?
And now that Cancerous has at least posted again (though nothing particularly special) all that's left is for you to post, @aciphoenix. Do it. Now.
And now that Cancerous has at least posted again (though nothing particularly special) all that's left is for you to post, @aciphoenix. Do it. Now.
dammit smogon, when I forget to hit post you're supposed to save my draft for me
thoughts on the kills:
butteredtoast(henceforth described as Mafia A): I have no clue why anyone would kill BT. Pretty sure Gale is smart enough not to kill someone who hasn't made any decent read on anyone but him, and there's really no other person with a particular reason to kill BT, which leaves me with two good possibilities
1. I'm wrong and Gale did it
as i said, I think gale's smart enough not to do it
2. Someone wants me to think I'm wrong and Gale did it
possible, especially with how heavily DLE/US have been pushing THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED BUTTEREDTOAST ARE NOOBS(capitalization added for emphasis), US even using it as reasoning for why the mafia definitely has noobs(read: gale's silly let noobs lead lynch thing, US's response)
so i think possibilities for a ButteredToast kill are UncleSam first, then Gale, then DLE, then everyone except Ultrasplot(provided he actually caught up with the thread), then Ultrasplot. If the parenthesized provision is untrue then UP moves into the "everyone else" category.
blegh I have to work on some summer homework, but here's what I have for now
thoughts on the kills:
butteredtoast(henceforth described as Mafia A): I have no clue why anyone would kill BT. Pretty sure Gale is smart enough not to kill someone who hasn't made any decent read on anyone but him, and there's really no other person with a particular reason to kill BT, which leaves me with two good possibilities
1. I'm wrong and Gale did it
as i said, I think gale's smart enough not to do it
2. Someone wants me to think I'm wrong and Gale did it
possible, especially with how heavily DLE/US have been pushing THE PEOPLE WHO KILLED BUTTEREDTOAST ARE NOOBS(capitalization added for emphasis), US even using it as reasoning for why the mafia definitely has noobs(read: gale's silly let noobs lead lynch thing, US's response)
so i think possibilities for a ButteredToast kill are UncleSam first, then Gale, then DLE, then everyone except Ultrasplot(provided he actually caught up with the thread), then Ultrasplot. If the parenthesized provision is untrue then UP moves into the "everyone else" category.
blegh I have to work on some summer homework, but here's what I have for now
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
Okay... for the past few days i've been trying to list the players of this game from most to least townie as per Yeti's suggestion, as i felt it would answer all the questions people have about my reads... unfortunately i hit a point where i couldn't come up with a definitive order, so i'm trying something different. I'm simply going to provide whether or not i find each player as town (with the 1-2 reasons of course), posting this now so that you know yes, i'm still present and yes, i'm working on providing reads... but it may take a while so unfortunately i ask that you guys wait a little longer... i hope not that long though
ugh so yea, I went out of town again on Tuesday. And there's a chance I'll be leaving again on sunday or monday (though hopefully not). I've been trying to keep up with the thread to the best of my ability let me know if I've missed anything.
I feel like Celever and Gale are focusing way too much on who the BG did and didn't protect, because in the grand scheme of things we have no way of knowing and it doesn't really contribute anything except for possible-but-unlikely motive for who the scum killed. Remember, even if one scum sees a guy as towny and leaves him alive in fear of BG, he could still very well be a member of the other scumteam.
scumreads atm: pokeguy, celever, acid
null reads: gale, cancerous
weaker townreads: dle, ultrasplot
stronger townreads: sam, yeti
I thought I already gave my reasoning re: the shade you threw at me? If there's anything you think I didn't answer satisfactorily lmk and I'll do my best.
Honestly over the past few days of skimming the thread the dude giving me the biggest scum vibe is acidphoenix. He's been doing the thing I do when I'm scum where he's all like "oh yea I'll make this big huge contribution later" and then it turns out that it's really underwhelming. I get the strong impression that he's stalling. Same goes for PokeguyNXB but you already know why I think he's scum. I can do a post-by-post on either of them if you want me to.
Nnnnnnope. A more experienced scum would easily be able to push a mislynch on Sam, and also the doctor's quite likely to have been protecting him anyways due to how high-profile he always winds up making himself.
This seems like a reach to me, I have no issue with the way DLE's posts were formatted because even town people give off scumtells and vice-versa (humans are flawed etc) and it's probably wiser to try to view things from both sides instead of going in with preconceived notions anyways. IDK this just feels like he's reaching for some sort of scumtell on anybody he can.
How would you know the BG wasn't on sam ._.
I feel like Celever and Gale are focusing way too much on who the BG did and didn't protect, because in the grand scheme of things we have no way of knowing and it doesn't really contribute anything except for possible-but-unlikely motive for who the scum killed. Remember, even if one scum sees a guy as towny and leaves him alive in fear of BG, he could still very well be a member of the other scumteam.
scumreads atm: pokeguy, celever, acid
null reads: gale, cancerous
weaker townreads: dle, ultrasplot
stronger townreads: sam, yeti
Well you can't deny that the post isn't wishy washy. I said that I don't like that formatting, you said that you do. It's a matter of opinion, but I just wanted DLE to rephrase it in a way that is more legible for me so that I can respond to his points.
You also totally hyperbolised what I said, saying that I was trying to reach for some sort of scumtell? The post contributes very little in determining alignment, and I didn't say it was a scumtell at all. Ironically, this point feels like you're reaching for a scumtell on me thanks to the exaggeration of what I said.
Hey, I'm just contributing to whatever discussion comes up because this day has been strangely dead. Gale started the talk of the BG, and I pretty much ended it in the exact same way you ended it. Again, this seems like you're trying to make me look like scum instead of noticing certain scummy things I do and calling me out on it, which is a scumtell (or habit of an inexperienced townie, but you're certainly not that).
Build a case on me. No hyperbole, please.
Why?
On that note, UltrasPlot, get your lazy ass back here and contribute. Notice how he got most of the game reading him as town and then left? Totally a sign of an inexperienced scum, and while he's saying that he's got a load of experience on showdown mafia, it really doesn't count because A. it's live and therefore a totally different thing and B. the players there are all pretty rubbish.
Some experienced scum use the strategy Ultras is anyway, though it's more prolific in new players.
Either way, UltrasPlot needs to do something.
Unvote
Vote UltrasPlot
At the same time, acidphoenix needs to get his lazy ass back here and do shit too.
So I was thinking...
What happens if three more of us die? One on D2 and two on N2? And is there a way we can stop this from happening?
What happens if three more of us die? One on D2 and two on N2? And is there a way we can stop this from happening?
If we lynch a townie today we will go down to 9 players, 5 town, and 2 per scumteam. Assuming that somehow the doc doesn't save and the mafia don't crossfire (this is unlikely) town will lose majority. However, the game won't be over, as there is still every possibility that the town can win if mafia is lynched the next day. No one's playstyle will change a huge amount. It's not like the mafia will all claim or something if that's what you were thinking, because that'd be handing the game over to the town.
The Diabolic Gift
Banned deucer.
Gale Wing Srock the Fletching (Villy) is Modkilled.
i'm assuming for posts editing?
also you forgot his one warning, but it's too late now
also you forgot his one warning, but it's too late now
The Diabolic Gift
Banned deucer.
Acidpheonix he was already warned for night talking and such.
The Diabolic Gift
Banned deucer.
AcidPhoenix i mean lol
so your FIRST reaction to him dying is that we should ignore everything he said? Especially considering that his top FoS was you, that looks really weird.
Go make a reads post.
^^^ Hit post too early.
Go make a reads post because I don't want to distract you with aimless conversation.
I was making a reads post already, still working on it.
I'd like to know how reading gale's posts won't help at all, though, considering that at the very least we know WHO he thought was scum, even if he had bad logic at least we have what his gut feelings were.
I'd like to know how reading gale's posts won't help at all, though, considering that at the very least we know WHO he thought was scum, even if he had bad logic at least we have what his gut feelings were.
Jesus christ really.
Why not just force sub him out? He didn't do anything to break the game (he didn't talk on IRC, etc), that would've been much more fair. The village can no longer guarantee a win in the absence of crossfire under even the best of circumstances, that's a pretty big choice to just kill him Diabolic Gift and I think that it really imbalances the game against the village.
Whatever when I'm not posting no one posts and villagers godkill themselves so I'm going to way that I thought Walrein's last post was really scummy (more or less just regurgitation to look like contribution) and I'd like him to comment on what scumteams he finds most probable.
Why not just force sub him out? He didn't do anything to break the game (he didn't talk on IRC, etc), that would've been much more fair. The village can no longer guarantee a win in the absence of crossfire under even the best of circumstances, that's a pretty big choice to just kill him Diabolic Gift and I think that it really imbalances the game against the village.
Whatever when I'm not posting no one posts and villagers godkill themselves so I'm going to way that I thought Walrein's last post was really scummy (more or less just regurgitation to look like contribution) and I'd like him to comment on what scumteams he finds most probable.
I don't think he told us his gut feelings. I think he overthank all of his reads and used only his flawed logic.
Well, force subbing isn't a thing on Showdown mafia, they only force kill there. I think that that explains it a bit, which is why I didn't really question things. However, in the future, people need to check hosts to ensure they are adequately experienced with forum mafia.
Ok no you know what Walrein is scummy af but I'm going to call out someone who has been getting by and being less helpful than I think he would be:
Unvote
Vote Da Letter El
Gale didn't have a hand in killing BT, and he didn't have a partner who killed BT for Gale's sake. With this knowledge,
Additionally, DLE has gone from UltrasPlot is strongest town to middling (with Gale taking his place as strongest town) back to UltrasPlot is assured town AFTER I posted saying that I felt UltrasPlot was obviously noobtown. Well, I don't feel that way anymore and either way I think that it points to DLE trying to soft-agree with me and light town read me without setting off alarm bells in my head that he is actively buddying me. It's been pretty obvious to him since early on that I am town (and Yeti too it would appear) and he has been playing very carefully around both of us.
I want everyone to give input on whether you think that DLE is part of the mafia that killed BT (or mafia in general). I can't see literally anyone else in the game killing BT last night outside of Gale or someone on Gale's behalf, and we know now that that is not the case.
I am well aware that I have previously read DLE as towny to strong town. This was because he was soft-agreeing with me while making original contributions, and I hadn't seen anything to suggest he definitely killed one of the two dead players. well, the latter is now no longer true (and in fact I think he is by FAR the most likely to have killed BT) but when I thought back I realized how inconsistent his tone has been regarding that particular kill. In addition, I think that DLE has realized (and I only recently came to this realization) that while I am personally always on the lookout for people buddying me, I'm not as much on the lookout for soft-buddying or general agreement with other original contributions; DLE is definitely a strong enough NOC player to take advantage of this observation (not to mention make that observation in the first place).
Yeti, can I get your thoughts on this? I'm thinking you're actually the cleanest person right now.
I think that Celever is at least contributing for now, though there are some weird things about his player that I can't quite put my finger on. He seems to be sort of assured in where he's at without really seeming to be looking so much as pressuring people to post/contribute (ie 'helping US in prodding people') which I could definitely see him doing as mafia if his partner was someone who is posting with some frequency.
Walrein as I mentioned earlier seems really scummy to me. I think that he is most probably on the team that killed Spiffy (not DLE's team).
Pokeguy is reading a lot more town to me. His reactions seem genuine and he seems legitimately confused about what is going on or how he can avoid fucking up and hurting his own team. PokeguyNXB what do you think of this post? Do you think DLE could've killed BT?
Acidphoenix is weird; I definitely still think he is scummy as fuck and he is stalling but neither of those two things are nearly as scummy to me as established players playing strangely. He could also fit in as either Walrein OR DLE's partner given those are my top two scumreads, so in that sense he is a lot more scummy than he otherwise would be.
UltrasPlot has vanished. I think he is definitely shifting more towards the possible scum category though I don't think DLE would hold his partner up as obvtown and I'm not sure if Walrein+UltrasPlot makes any sense at all. In other words, given my top two scum reads now I don't think he fits in with either.
Cancerous is reading a lot more scum to me recently. He could definitely be DLE's partner for reasons I mentioned earlier, and he could be Walrein's partner as well. Cancerous what do you think of the possibility of DLE killing BT?
I'd like everyone's thoughts on this, because I really think that unlike the scumtells in the less experienced players' play, something like this is a lot more incriminating of a player of DLE's caliber. I don't really see how this is a town DLE reaction in any way, but I'd like others' opinions on this.
Unvote
Vote Da Letter El
Gale didn't have a hand in killing BT, and he didn't have a partner who killed BT for Gale's sake. With this knowledge,
Firstly, this post makes little sense, but look particularly at where DLE talks about team 2. This reads to me very strongly of 'team 1 should've gone for someone more towny, like Yeti or US, because I had spent time throwing shade on Spiffy already; meanwhile, I'm going to instantly distance myself from team 2 by calling them bad'. Except that DLE admits that he would've considered a BT kill (and I think that ONLY DLE would've considered a BT kill last night):
In other words, DLE is calling out the other mafia for not killing Yeti while admitting that his earlier reaction (ie that 'team 2 are bad at mafia') was total horseshit and probably made up to distance himself from the kill.Da Letter El said:
Additionally, DLE has gone from UltrasPlot is strongest town to middling (with Gale taking his place as strongest town) back to UltrasPlot is assured town AFTER I posted saying that I felt UltrasPlot was obviously noobtown. Well, I don't feel that way anymore and either way I think that it points to DLE trying to soft-agree with me and light town read me without setting off alarm bells in my head that he is actively buddying me. It's been pretty obvious to him since early on that I am town (and Yeti too it would appear) and he has been playing very carefully around both of us.
I want everyone to give input on whether you think that DLE is part of the mafia that killed BT (or mafia in general). I can't see literally anyone else in the game killing BT last night outside of Gale or someone on Gale's behalf, and we know now that that is not the case.
I am well aware that I have previously read DLE as towny to strong town. This was because he was soft-agreeing with me while making original contributions, and I hadn't seen anything to suggest he definitely killed one of the two dead players. well, the latter is now no longer true (and in fact I think he is by FAR the most likely to have killed BT) but when I thought back I realized how inconsistent his tone has been regarding that particular kill. In addition, I think that DLE has realized (and I only recently came to this realization) that while I am personally always on the lookout for people buddying me, I'm not as much on the lookout for soft-buddying or general agreement with other original contributions; DLE is definitely a strong enough NOC player to take advantage of this observation (not to mention make that observation in the first place).
Yeti, can I get your thoughts on this? I'm thinking you're actually the cleanest person right now.
I think that Celever is at least contributing for now, though there are some weird things about his player that I can't quite put my finger on. He seems to be sort of assured in where he's at without really seeming to be looking so much as pressuring people to post/contribute (ie 'helping US in prodding people') which I could definitely see him doing as mafia if his partner was someone who is posting with some frequency.
Walrein as I mentioned earlier seems really scummy to me. I think that he is most probably on the team that killed Spiffy (not DLE's team).
Pokeguy is reading a lot more town to me. His reactions seem genuine and he seems legitimately confused about what is going on or how he can avoid fucking up and hurting his own team. PokeguyNXB what do you think of this post? Do you think DLE could've killed BT?
Acidphoenix is weird; I definitely still think he is scummy as fuck and he is stalling but neither of those two things are nearly as scummy to me as established players playing strangely. He could also fit in as either Walrein OR DLE's partner given those are my top two scumreads, so in that sense he is a lot more scummy than he otherwise would be.
UltrasPlot has vanished. I think he is definitely shifting more towards the possible scum category though I don't think DLE would hold his partner up as obvtown and I'm not sure if Walrein+UltrasPlot makes any sense at all. In other words, given my top two scum reads now I don't think he fits in with either.
Cancerous is reading a lot more scum to me recently. He could definitely be DLE's partner for reasons I mentioned earlier, and he could be Walrein's partner as well. Cancerous what do you think of the possibility of DLE killing BT?
I'd like everyone's thoughts on this, because I really think that unlike the scumtells in the less experienced players' play, something like this is a lot more incriminating of a player of DLE's caliber. I don't really see how this is a town DLE reaction in any way, but I'd like others' opinions on this.
I think I've already explained many times why killing BT makes no sense for me, but if you think that it's me or DLE then that means that you agree with what I'm saying, you just think that for some reason the arguments I've made previously about why I would never have killed BT are inaccurate. Could you explain why?
Also could you give reads on people ffs people have been asking for like a week. And make a new post, don't edit in or start with the old post, create an entirely new post of original thoughts.
Also could you give reads on people ffs people have been asking for like a week. And make a new post, don't edit in or start with the old post, create an entirely new post of original thoughts.
Welp!
Gale I have to say I'm very disappointed you didn't look into the rules and broke two - no night talking and no editing. That being said our host should have jumped on acidphoenix for editing as I think Gale thought it was ok after acidphoenix did it. Can we get a restating of the rules so nobody makes these mistakes again?
UncleSam I was JUST about to make a "hey #showerthoughts what if an experienced player killed BT because it makes no sense?" post, I was thinking about it this morning.
Here is what I think:
A smart player is on Mafia Two.
Smart player thinks "who is a target I am pretty sure is town?"
Smart player then thinks "who is a target I am pretty sure nobody else WOULD target?"
ButteredToast.
Nobody has any reason to kill him, he's not been prominent, he stalled a lot early on contributing, but he's surely going to result in two kills because he is not going to be BGed nor hit by the other mafia.
Smart player then poses "oh that kill makes no sense, Mafia Two must be hooligans!" the next day, is never suspected.
I am now unconvinced Mafia Two is two newbies who made a weird kill. Gale is dead, and I did suspect him for most of the game, so there's one down. Who remains who could qualify as that? Pokeguy and acidphoenix are the only remaining 'nooby' players, yeah? So they'd both have to be mafia and on the same team.
Cancerous did that thing where he made a couple funny posts and was town read by half the game or more, then stopped contributing and skirted by on limp-dicked posts for a long while due to those reads. I think this is what UltrasPlot is being accused of now? After seeing it work for Cancerous I can't blame him for trying it as well. I have remained more skeptical of Cancerous than the average player as a result of this play, though, so I am fine with looking at his posts in detail.
I need to dig back through Celever's posts and find what specifically makes him scummy to me.
Sam if you're mafia I concede this loss to you, the town is M. I. A.
Gale I have to say I'm very disappointed you didn't look into the rules and broke two - no night talking and no editing. That being said our host should have jumped on acidphoenix for editing as I think Gale thought it was ok after acidphoenix did it. Can we get a restating of the rules so nobody makes these mistakes again?
UncleSam I was JUST about to make a "hey #showerthoughts what if an experienced player killed BT because it makes no sense?" post, I was thinking about it this morning.
Here is what I think:
A smart player is on Mafia Two.
Smart player thinks "who is a target I am pretty sure is town?"
Smart player then thinks "who is a target I am pretty sure nobody else WOULD target?"
ButteredToast.
Nobody has any reason to kill him, he's not been prominent, he stalled a lot early on contributing, but he's surely going to result in two kills because he is not going to be BGed nor hit by the other mafia.
Smart player then poses "oh that kill makes no sense, Mafia Two must be hooligans!" the next day, is never suspected.
I am now unconvinced Mafia Two is two newbies who made a weird kill. Gale is dead, and I did suspect him for most of the game, so there's one down. Who remains who could qualify as that? Pokeguy and acidphoenix are the only remaining 'nooby' players, yeah? So they'd both have to be mafia and on the same team.
Cancerous did that thing where he made a couple funny posts and was town read by half the game or more, then stopped contributing and skirted by on limp-dicked posts for a long while due to those reads. I think this is what UltrasPlot is being accused of now? After seeing it work for Cancerous I can't blame him for trying it as well. I have remained more skeptical of Cancerous than the average player as a result of this play, though, so I am fine with looking at his posts in detail.
I need to dig back through Celever's posts and find what specifically makes him scummy to me.
Sam if you're mafia I concede this loss to you, the town is M. I. A.
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