Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[DK Quagmire]

I just got a new record on my Super singles, but i got really unlucky with hax and lost.
Battle 217. Veteran Hera. Heatran, Cobalion, Suicune. Battle code: 4MMG-WWWW-WW2E-8PSX

My team.

Durant (male). Flik
Item. Choice Scarf
Ability. Truant
Nature: Jolly
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. (i'll have to check on this. but i'm sure its the same evs as JohnJohn's)
Moves. Entrainment, X-Scissor, protect, Aerial Ace

Cloyster (Female). Moon Pearl
Item. Focus Sash.
Ability. Skill Link
Nature: Adamant
Iv's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. 252 ATK. 252 Speed. 4 HP
Moves. Shell Smash, Icicle spear, Protect, Rock Blast

Steelix (Male). Drying Pan
Item. Leftovers
Ability. Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/00
Ev's. 252 HP. 252 ATK. 4 Sp. DEF
Moves. Curse, Gyro Ball, Protect, Dragon Tail

basically the same as my last team i had back in January, but Mega Altaria was changed for Steelix. I wanted a Pokemon that could set up, and be immune to sand storm, AND be an answer for the Pokemon Thundurus. in my last run, i encountered lead taunt Thundurus, and my team fell apart with no way to deal with it. this team steelix would resist that Thundurus, and use Dragon Tail to force a switch into another Pokemon, if I get Taunted. Sadly i never encountered a Lead Thundurus with Steelix in my party, which made him kind of redundant. but he took hits from pokemon like Rampardos, like a champ, and leftovers with protect would help him recover his HP, so i could still use his Study ability to take a 1HKO from the likes of Hydro Pump, and use Dragon Tail to remove the threat.
however the match i lost was all under control, untill my Rock Blast on Cloyster missed... twice!!. heres how it went down.

Lead Durant. lead Heatran.
Durant uses Entrainment.
Heatran uses heat wave. dead durant.
switch into cloyster. set up.
ko Heatran.
Cobalion comes out. Icicle spear.
It survives the 5 hits and hits me, but i'm still on yellow HP after a -6 def/ dp. def drop.
KO Cobalion.
Suicune comes out. Rock blast.
Rock Blast Misses. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. it misses.
Rock Blast again. MISSES. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. KO
Steelix comes in. Protect. Hydro pump misses
Gyro ball. Does like 1/10 not even that, to Suicunes HP. Hydro Pump hits. activates Sturdy.
Protect. Hydro Pump Misses.
Ice beam hits Steelix for game.

I think what i should of done with Cloyster, is scouted with Protect, which would of taken away a Hydro Pump PP, before attacking. And then used protect again after the next attack to use up another pump PP. with Suicune out of Hydro Pumps, Steelix could of possibly of got another move off, but what was the point. the game was lost by that point anyway.
Another way i could of gone, is to scout the Cobalion, to check if it had a fighting type move, and then tried to switch to Steelix, who takes Physical hits like a champ, and potentially try to set up on it with that. but i know from that past that Cobalion have moves like substitute, which would make things more difficult for me. even so, dragon tail could of removed it if they did try to set up, and i could of stalled some PP and even attacked on the Suicune. there are many ways this match could of gone.

But 2 Rock Blast Misses in a row. They should rename the move "Rock Miss". Thats what I call it.

I've already got another Pokemon in mind to replace Steelix, since the problem it has, is its too slow. Tyrantrum. Iv'e spent all week on GTS trading for Tyrunts to get the hidden ability one, and i finally got one.
Tyrantrum can use Head smash with Rock Head for no recoil damage, and doesn't take damage in sandstorms. It also has access to dragon dance, which is really is a great set up move. though the 80 acc on head smash might make me start calling it "head miss" if it gets really bad.

 

[GG Unit]

I just got a new record on my Super singles, but i got really unlucky with hax and lost.
Battle 217. Veteran Hera. Heatran, Cobalion, Suicune. Battle code: 4MMG-WWWW-WW2E-8PSX

My team.

Durant (male). Flik
Item. Choice Scarf
Ability. Truant
Nature: Jolly
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. (i'll have to check on this. but i'm sure its the same evs as JohnJohn's)
Moves. Entrainment, X-Scissor, protect, Aerial Ace

Cloyster (Female). Moon Pearl
Item. Focus Sash.
Ability. Skill Link
Nature: Adamant
Iv's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. 252 ATK. 252 Speed. 4 HP
Moves. Shell Smash, Icicle spear, Protect, Rock Blast

Steelix (Male). Drying Pan
Item. Leftovers
Ability. Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/00
Ev's. 252 HP. 252 ATK. 4 Sp. DEF
Moves. Curse, Gyro Ball, Protect, Dragon Tail

basically the same as my last team i had back in January, but Mega Altaria was changed for Steelix. I wanted a Pokemon that could set up, and be immune to sand storm, AND be an answer for the Pokemon Thundurus. in my last run, i encountered lead taunt Thundurus, and my team fell apart with no way to deal with it. this team steelix would resist that Thundurus, and use Dragon Tail to force a switch into another Pokemon, if I get Taunted. Sadly i never encountered a Lead Thundurus with Steelix in my party, which made him kind of redundant. but he took hits from pokemon like Rampardos, like a champ, and leftovers with protect would help him recover his HP, so i could still use his Study ability to take a 1HKO from the likes of Hydro Pump, and use Dragon Tail to remove the threat.
however the match i lost was all under control, untill my Rock Blast on Cloyster missed... twice!!. heres how it went down.

Lead Durant. lead Heatran.
Durant uses Entrainment.
Heatran uses heat wave. dead durant.
switch into cloyster. set up.
ko Heatran.
Cobalion comes out. Icicle spear.
It survives the 5 hits and hits me, but i'm still on yellow HP after a -6 def/ dp. def drop.
KO Cobalion.
Suicune comes out. Rock blast.
Rock Blast Misses. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. it misses.
Rock Blast again. MISSES. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. KO
Steelix comes in. Protect. Hydro pump misses
Gyro ball. Does like 1/10 not even that, to Suicunes HP. Hydro Pump hits. activates Sturdy.
Protect. Hydro Pump Misses.
Ice beam hits Steelix for game.

I think what i should of done with Cloyster, is scouted with Protect, which would of taken away a Hydro Pump PP, before attacking. And then used protect again after the next attack to use up another pump PP. with Suicune out of Hydro Pumps, Steelix could of possibly of got another move off, but what was the point. the game was lost by that point anyway.
Another way i could of gone, is to scout the Cobalion, to check if it had a fighting type move, and then tried to switch to Steelix, who takes Physical hits like a champ, and potentially try to set up on it with that. but i know from that past that Cobalion have moves like substitute, which would make things more difficult for me. even so, dragon tail could of removed it if they did try to set up, and i could of stalled some PP and even attacked on the Suicune. there are many ways this match could of gone.

But 2 Rock Blast Misses in a row. They should rename the move "Rock Miss". Thats what I call it.

I've already got another Pokemon in mind to replace Steelix, since the problem it has, is its too slow. Tyrantrum. Iv'e spent all week on GTS trading for Tyrunts to get the hidden ability one, and i finally got one.
Tyrantrum can use Head smash with Rock Head for no recoil damage, and doesn't take damage in sandstorms. It also has access to dragon dance, which is really is a great set up move. though the 80 acc on head smash might make me start calling it "head miss" if it gets really bad.

Ouch, another streak lost due to the prominent listing of a faked team. With Surf instead of Rock Blast, you OHKO Cobalion and can then 2HKO Suicune with Icicle Spear. Then you only have to worry about missing twice in a row due to evasion items (which still happens often enough). Either way, you don't want anything too slow as the other sweeper because you'll still have situations where something like Suicune comes out 3rd against 1 HP Cloyster and you can guarantee a win by hitting with Icicle Spear and finishing off the last 30-40% with your backup sweeper.

With Durant and two sweepers, it can definitely become a contest of seeing how long can you avoid Taunt Thundurus or Speed Boost Yanmega flinching in the lead spot, but those are rare outcomes you can't do much about without compromising your ability to handle more common stuff.

 

[NoCheese]

Updated through here, so please let me know if you spot any errors or omissions. Note that I previously missed adding brakerider's excellent 1600 win (still active) triples streak. That's been fixed!!

 

[DK Quagmire]

Updated through here, so please let me know if you spot any errors or omissions. Note that I previously missed adding brakerider's excellent 1600 win (still active) triples streak. That's been fixed!!

Just checked the leader boards so thanks for updating it. But I just want to point out 1 small error to my rank, and that's that I didn't use Mega Steelix, in my run. It was a normal Steelix with Leftovers. That is all.

 

[NoCheese]

Just checked the leader boards so thanks for updating it. But I just want to point out 1 small error to my rank, and that's that I didn't use Mega Steelix, in my run. It was a normal Steelix with Leftovers. That is all.

Whoops! Fixed.

 

[faith_grins]

I just got a new record on my Super singles, but i got really unlucky with hax and lost.
Battle 217. Veteran Hera. Heatran, Cobalion, Suicune. Battle code: 4MMG-WWWW-WW2E-8PSX

My team.

Durant (male). Flik
Item. Choice Scarf
Ability. Truant
Nature: Jolly
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. (i'll have to check on this. but i'm sure its the same evs as JohnJohn's)
Moves. Entrainment, X-Scissor, protect, Aerial Ace

Cloyster (Female). Moon Pearl
Item. Focus Sash.
Ability. Skill Link
Nature: Adamant
Iv's. 31/31/31/**/31/31
EV's. 252 ATK. 252 Speed. 4 HP
Moves. Shell Smash, Icicle spear, Protect, Rock Blast

Steelix (Male). Drying Pan
Item. Leftovers
Ability. Sturdy
Nature: Brave
IV's. 31/31/31/**/31/00
Ev's. 252 HP. 252 ATK. 4 Sp. DEF
Moves. Curse, Gyro Ball, Protect, Dragon Tail

basically the same as my last team i had back in January, but Mega Altaria was changed for Steelix. I wanted a Pokemon that could set up, and be immune to sand storm, AND be an answer for the Pokemon Thundurus. in my last run, i encountered lead taunt Thundurus, and my team fell apart with no way to deal with it. this team steelix would resist that Thundurus, and use Dragon Tail to force a switch into another Pokemon, if I get Taunted. Sadly i never encountered a Lead Thundurus with Steelix in my party, which made him kind of redundant. but he took hits from pokemon like Rampardos, like a champ, and leftovers with protect would help him recover his HP, so i could still use his Study ability to take a 1HKO from the likes of Hydro Pump, and use Dragon Tail to remove the threat.
however the match i lost was all under control, untill my Rock Blast on Cloyster missed... twice!!. heres how it went down.

Lead Durant. lead Heatran.
Durant uses Entrainment.
Heatran uses heat wave. dead durant.
switch into cloyster. set up.
ko Heatran.
Cobalion comes out. Icicle spear.
It survives the 5 hits and hits me, but i'm still on yellow HP after a -6 def/ dp. def drop.
KO Cobalion.
Suicune comes out. Rock blast.
Rock Blast Misses. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. it misses.
Rock Blast again. MISSES. Suicune uses Hydro Pump. KO
Steelix comes in. Protect. Hydro pump misses
Gyro ball. Does like 1/10 not even that, to Suicunes HP. Hydro Pump hits. activates Sturdy.
Protect. Hydro Pump Misses.
Ice beam hits Steelix for game.

I think what i should of done with Cloyster, is scouted with Protect, which would of taken away a Hydro Pump PP, before attacking. And then used protect again after the next attack to use up another pump PP. with Suicune out of Hydro Pumps, Steelix could of possibly of got another move off, but what was the point. the game was lost by that point anyway.
Another way i could of gone, is to scout the Cobalion, to check if it had a fighting type move, and then tried to switch to Steelix, who takes Physical hits like a champ, and potentially try to set up on it with that. but i know from that past that Cobalion have moves like substitute, which would make things more difficult for me. even so, dragon tail could of removed it if they did try to set up, and i could of stalled some PP and even attacked on the Suicune. there are many ways this match could of gone.

But 2 Rock Blast Misses in a row. They should rename the move "Rock Miss". Thats what I call it.

I've already got another Pokemon in mind to replace Steelix, since the problem it has, is its too slow. Tyrantrum. Iv'e spent all week on GTS trading for Tyrunts to get the hidden ability one, and i finally got one.
Tyrantrum can use Head smash with Rock Head for no recoil damage, and doesn't take damage in sandstorms. It also has access to dragon dance, which is really is a great set up move. though the 80 acc on head smash might make me start calling it "head miss" if it gets really bad.

Head Smash's poor accuracy is its great downfall in the Maison. 80% chance to hit is also a 20% chance to do nothing at all at some critical moment, and a 4% chance to miss twice in a row. Over the course of 200+ battles, that will happen, and when it does, it will be every bit as disastrous as Rock Blast missing. Dragon Claw would be much better, but the primary concern with Tyrantrum is that both Thundurus4 and Tornadus4 (the two sets you are concerned about) can OHKO Tyrantrum with Focus Blast. Even with a Chople Berry and investing in Sp.Defense instead of Speed, you still have a 40% chance to be OHKO'd on a crit, which comes out to about a 2.5% chance. You'd have to stack HP/Sp. Defense to completely protect yourself from that Focus Blast, at which point you're losing a lot of the typical functionality of that team member in order to protect against an edge case which could more easily be handled by some other pokemon.

I know Durant/Cloyster/Garchomp is already a team on the leaderboard, but that is honestly where I would go for another Dragon Tail user. He keeps the immunity to electric/Thunder Wave, he can set up with Swords Dance if you truly must have another set up sweeper, and he's reasonably bulky. See NoCheese's write up on the team if you want more advice on it.

If you're trying to keep your team more distinct than that, the next place I would look for an answer to Taunt leads would actually be a Magic Bounce user, like Espeon. 252 HP/252 SDefense, Calm nature, teach it Light Screen, Reflect, Yawn, and Wish. Sort of radically changes what you were doing with your third team member, but it outright trumps Thundurus4 and Tornadus4. (Reflects the taunt on the switch, or easily soaks the attack if that's what they go for. Yawn them to sleep. Set up Screens. Profit.) Alternately, if you need a team member who can soak those taunts and deal with heavy special attackers and you don't care if they add any other utility, you could run an Assault Vest set. Psyshock, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam is surprisingly effective coverage. Unfortunately, either set you run leaves your team horribly vulnerable to a Magnezone4 lead - it can trap Durant so you can't switch to Espy safely, it can Volt Switch out of the Entrainment, and it isn't cleanly OHKO'd by Surf or Icicle Spear no matter how set up Cloyster is.

Another alternative is (of all things) Lickilicky. Its hidden ability shuts off weather to preserve Cloyster's sash if necessary, it learns Dragon Tail, and it can learn Earthquake to check that Magnezone4 threat. Quite frankly, I don't know what I'd do with its other two move slots - my go-to answer would be Body Slam for possible paralysis option and Knock Off to remove items, but I don't know what either of those offers your team. (Edit: Oh, duh, Lickilicky can have Curse. That's what you'd do with those last two slots.)

There is also the Flygon option, if you want Dragon/Ground but you want to keep your team distinct from NoCheese's. Its major downfall is that its best boosting move is Hone Claws. =\ (Honestly, if you weren't married to Protect/Dragon Tail/Boost/Attack, Flygon can offer some sweet coverage with Earthquake/Dragon Claw/Fire Punch/Superpower. Cover every steel-type imaginable! =)

 

[DK Quagmire]

Thankyou faith_grins. decided to take a different route. Iv'e just bred a Male Meowstic with Prankster. Bold Nature. and it has 252 HP. 40 sp. def (For all Gengar) and the rest in defense. its going to be a choice scarf lead, with Trick. kind of like the Famous Whimsicott set, but not as good since no encore, but i'll see how i go.
its current move set is TRICK, YAWN, REST and SAFEGUARD.
cool note. Bold Meowstic with no speed evs and choice scarf still outspeeds Thundurus. YEY!!
Like Espeon, you can stop or trap taunt users, into using the same move over and over. yawn can put things to sleep, allowing me to switch into Durant to set up entrainment. Rest and safeguard are there just for thunder wave, toxic, will-o-wisp and sleep move locks.
I'm currently breeding a Whiscash, for it's ability to prevent Taunts with Oblivious, and can Dragon Dance. if the opponent is locked into taunt, then i don't even need Durant for setting up. All my eggs so far have dragon dance, from parent gyarados, so that's step one out the way, but no idea what nature or evs to give it.
I looked into using Lickilicky, which also has Oblivious, and can swords dance, and has better overall stats, but i can't set up its speed stat in anyway. base 50 speed, is a no go. I learned that from using Steelix. at least steelix could take any hit and survive on 1 HP with Sturdy.
Meowstic (M) has some other interesting moves up its sleave, like Skill swap and Flash also, as we've seen from the level 1 Sableye, Glalie leader board score. And i'll need some time to test Meowstic (M) fully, and change the move set if it needs something else.
Since durant can no longer hold Choice scarf, I might have to breed a new one, for this new team.

 

[December]

Hey all, im new to the Battle Mason and im struggling a bit. Seems like no matter what i do, my streak ends at 30-35. I haven't played Pokemon constantly since Gen 4 however is still getting accustomed to Gen 6. Anyway

I usually tend to use a Highly offensive team for example i have max iv/ EV Garchomps, Tyranitar, Azelf, Greninja etc..so my style is HO..

My question is, is a HO team as effective as a Bulky team? Should i change my style to Bulky Offensive?

My teams usually go like this

Garchomp
Life Orb
Adamant
252 Attack 252 Speed 4 hp

Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone edge/ Fire Fang

Cobalion
Adamant
52 hp, 200 attack, 252 speed

Sacred Sword
Swords Dance
Iron Head
Stone Edge

Mega Sharpedo
Adamant
Standard EV spread

Protect
Crunch.
Waterfall
Ice Fang

Any suggestions? Im leaning towards just revamping and building a bulky team.

For one i can't do many switchouts and my team isnt very defensive..

Just looking for a more bulkier team suggestion

Any cores i can look at or any links to different cores with great synergy for the battle masion?

Thanks

 

[faith_grins]

Hey all, im new to the Battle Mason and im struggling a bit. Seems like no matter what i do, my streak ends at 30-35. I haven't played Pokemon constantly since Gen 4 however is still getting accustomed to Gen 6. Anyway

I usually tend to use a Highly offensive team for example i have max iv/ EV Garchomps, Tyranitar, Azelf, Greninja etc..so my style is HO..

My question is, is a HO team as effective as a Bulky team? Should i change my style to Bulky Offensive?

My teams usually go like this

Garchomp
Life Orb
Adamant
252 Attack 252 Speed 4 hp

Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone edge/ Fire Fang

Cobalion
Adamant
52 hp, 200 attack, 252 speed

Sacred Sword
Swords Dance
Iron Head
Stone Edge

Mega Sharpedo
Adamant
Standard EV spread

Protect
Crunch.
Waterfall
Ice Fang

Any suggestions? Im leaning towards just revamping and building a bulky team.

For one i can't do many switchouts and my team isnt very defensive..

Just looking for a more bulkier team suggestion

Any cores i can look at or any links to different cores with great synergy for the battle masion?

Thanks

I lost a Super Singles streak at 170-something to a stupid error with a team that had nothing but offensive moves - all-out aggro is viable in the Maison. It is not as reliable as having an all-around solid team synergy with the ability to pivot on a variety of enemies, but in my opinion it is much easier to pilot if you don't have a huge amount of experience in the Maison yet.

The two things I would recommend you do to improve your chances in the Maison are:
1) Familiarize yourself with the Trainers in the Maison and which Pokemon (and which movesets) each trainer can use. A link to those can be found on the first post in this topic. Knowing, for example, that Athena only owns one Sawk, and its moves are Low Sweep, Quick Guard, Retaliate, and Taunt tells you what can switch into it safely.
2) Remember that in the Battle Maison, it is far more important to have consistent performance than it is to have a more powerful option.
a) As such, inaccurate moves like Fire Fang and Ice Fang are not recommended - you have fewer pokemon on your team, so you have less room for error, so those misses create much tighter situations when they happen.
b) This also means that it is way riskier to have multiple team members who share a weakness. Unless they offer some specific combo, or there's some defensive synergy they create that alleviates the problem, it is very likely that, at some point, you will lose your only answer to that weakness (whatever it is - it could be Fighting attacks, or it could be Burns) before the opponent that brings it to bear comes in and you are basically relying on luck to get you past this hurdle.

Looking at your team specifically, the major issue I see is that all three of your pokemon are crippled by Burns, and two of them share a weakness to Fighting. There are enough things running around the Maison with High Jump Kick and Focus Blast that a fighting weakness is something you really do not want to duplicate. You can solve both of those at once by trading Sharpedo for a specially-focused water-type. The two that come immediately to mind are Mega Blastoise and Mega Slowbro. Both offer a bulky member to the team, but they're also trading your fastest member for very slow mons. =\

The other change to make is that Stone Edge is absolutely awful in the Maison. As I mentioned two posts above, an 80% chance to hit is also a 20% chance to do nothing at all at some critical moment, and a 4% chance to miss twice in a row. None of that is any good in the Maison. I believe Garchomp would be better served by either Poison Jab (to check Azumarill, for whom I don't see another good response on your team) or Substitute, to offer a way to Swords Dance up in relative safety. For Cobalion, I would put either Close Combat or Volt Switch there, depending on what item you have on him. (Volt Switch if he's holding Lefties, Close Combat if he has a Focus Sash or other consumable.)

 

[December]

I lost a Super Singles streak at 170-something to a stupid error with a team that had nothing but offensive moves - all-out aggro is viable in the Maison. It is not as reliable as having an all-around solid team synergy with the ability to pivot on a variety of enemies, but in my opinion it is much easier to pilot if you don't have a huge amount of experience in the Maison yet.

The two things I would recommend you do to improve your chances in the Maison are:
1) Familiarize yourself with the Trainers in the Maison and which Pokemon (and which movesets) each trainer can use. A link to those can be found on the first post in this topic. Knowing, for example, that Athena only owns one Sawk, and its moves are Low Sweep, Quick Guard, Retaliate, and Taunt tells you what can switch into it safely.
2) Remember that in the Battle Maison, it is far more important to have consistent performance than it is to have a more powerful option.
a) As such, inaccurate moves like Fire Fang and Ice Fang are not recommended - you have fewer pokemon on your team, so you have less room for error, so those misses create much tighter situations when they happen.
b) This also means that it is way riskier to have multiple team members who share a weakness. Unless they offer some specific combo, or there's some defensive synergy they create that alleviates the problem, it is very likely that, at some point, you will lose your only answer to that weakness (whatever it is - it could be Fighting attacks, or it could be Burns) before the opponent that brings it to bear comes in and you are basically relying on luck to get you past this hurdle.

Looking at your team specifically, the major issue I see is that all three of your pokemon are crippled by Burns, and two of them share a weakness to Fighting. There are enough things running around the Maison with High Jump Kick and Focus Blast that a fighting weakness is something you really do not want to duplicate. You can solve both of those at once by trading Sharpedo for a specially-focused water-type. The two that come immediately to mind are Mega Blastoise and Mega Slowbro. Both offer a bulky member to the team, but they're also trading your fastest member for very slow mons. =\

The other change to make is that Stone Edge is absolutely awful in the Maison. As I mentioned two posts above, an 80% chance to hit is also a 20% chance to do nothing at all at some critical moment, and a 4% chance to miss twice in a row. None of that is any good in the Maison. I believe Garchomp would be better served by either Poison Jab (to check Azumarill, for whom I don't see another good response on your team) or Substitute, to offer a way to Swords Dance up in relative safety. For Cobalion, I would put either Close Combat or Volt Switch there, depending on what item you have on him. (Volt Switch if he's holding Lefties, Close Combat if he has a Focus Sash or other consumable.)

Thank you honestly for the thoughtful , helpful post. I agree with everything youve said and yes i was defiantly thinking about replacing Sharpedo with either Milotic, Mslowbro Mblastoise or even Suicune. I also will change a few moves on Chomp and Cobalion. Hopefully i can double my win count.

 

[turskain]

Hey all, im new to the Battle Mason and im struggling a bit. Seems like no matter what i do, my streak ends at 30-35. I haven't played Pokemon constantly since Gen 4 however is still getting accustomed to Gen 6. Anyway

I usually tend to use a Highly offensive team for example i have max iv/ EV Garchomps, Tyranitar, Azelf, Greninja etc..so my style is HO..

My question is, is a HO team as effective as a Bulky team? Should i change my style to Bulky Offensive?

My teams usually go like this

Garchomp
Life Orb
Adamant
252 Attack 252 Speed 4 hp

Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone edge/ Fire Fang

Cobalion
Adamant
52 hp, 200 attack, 252 speed

Sacred Sword
Swords Dance
Iron Head
Stone Edge

Mega Sharpedo
Adamant
Standard EV spread

Protect
Crunch.
Waterfall
Ice Fang

Any suggestions? Im leaning towards just revamping and building a bulky team.

For one i can't do many switchouts and my team isnt very defensive..

Just looking for a more bulkier team suggestion

Any cores i can look at or any links to different cores with great synergy for the battle masion?

Thanks

Looking at your sets, Garchomp prefers a Jolly nature to maximize its Speed over Adamant. Life Orb is a good item for it in Maison Doubles and Triples, but in Singles it prefers Lum Berry for status, or a Choice item for immediate punch. If using Substitute as faith_grins suggested, it should also run the 4 spare EVs in Special Defense or Defense instead of HP in order to be able to use Substitute four times. As a lead, Garchomp is also outclassed by its groovier brethren (Dragonite, Mega Salamence and Haxorus) that can boost both their Attack and Speed with Dragon Dance to set up more effectively.

Cobalion, though... having a Steel-type that covers Garchomp's weaknesses is sensible, but Cobalion in particular doesn't seem very good for the job. Its Attack is low and it doesn't have the special bulk to switch into strong Ice/Dragon/Fairy-type attacks, and take another hit after switching in on top since it lacks the power to OHKO the culprits. Aegislash and Mega Scizor are the two Steels that you usually go for.

Mega Sharpedo similarly seems like a poor option, especially as a back-up since it lacks the bulk to switch into any attack prior to Mega Evolving. Sharpedo's been most succesful in the Maison with a Focus Sash set utilizing Destiny Bond to ideally 2HKO the enemy lead and then Destiny Bond the second foe to end up with a 2v1 lead.



faith_grins's general advice is also good, though Azumarill is not used by the Battle Maison AI opponents so running Poison Jab to check it is pointless. Iron Head's chance to flinch makes it a better choice than Poison Jab for a third coverage move.

There's also the Battle Maison guide, which covers pretty much everything.

 

[krakowg7]

Hello everyone,

I would like to post also my team that reached 97 straight wins in Super Single Battles in Alpha Sapphire. Sorry for not having the video of my loss but I got so frustrated that I immediately switched off my 3DS.

So my team is:

Mega Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP/16 Atk/244 SpD
Nature: Adamant
-Iron Head
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance

Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP/252 SpD/8 Spe
Nature: Bold
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Will-O-Wisp
-Rest

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-High Jump Kick
-Flare Blitz
-Knock Off
-Protect

Needless to say I lost from a Curse-spamming Swampert coupled with numerous Rests where he managed to beat my Rotom with a critical hit Waterfall. Then, he destroyed the rest of my team with a simple Earthquake.

Please feel free to ask me any question

 

[sunzet-therian forme]

Hello everyone,

I would like to post also my team that reached 97 straight wins in Super Single Battles in Alpha Sapphire. Sorry for not having the video of my loss but I got so frustrated that I immediately switched off my 3DS.

So my team is:

Mega Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate/Huge Power
EVs: 248 HP/16 Atk/244 SpD
Nature: Adamant
-Iron Head
-Play Rough
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance

Rotom-W @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP/252 SpD/8 Spe
Nature: Bold
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Will-O-Wisp
-Rest

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-High Jump Kick
-Flare Blitz
-Knock Off
-Protect

Needless to say I lost from a Curse-spamming Swampert coupled with numerous Rests where he managed to beat my Rotom with a critical hit Waterfall. Then, he destroyed the rest of my team with a simple Earthquake.

Please feel free to ask me any question

View attachment 46799

Note that hydro pump, will-o-wisp, play rough, and HJK are inaccurate. For most teams its best to stick with 100 percent accurate moves(Or at least 99 percent accurate). Low kick is generally fine for blaziken. The only reason I don't like using mawile is because of play roughs accuracy. It can't holds wide lens like azumarill can. I'm actually surprised that's not the way to lost.

I actually have a team of my own to post, 385 wins in XY Super Triples

Battle videos:#386 ZCBG-WWWW-WW2F-8EUJ
Couple TR battles:
TZDG-WWWW-WW2F-8EVU
ZEYW-WWWW-WW2F-8F2C

Greninja@Focus sash**Geico
Nature:Timid
Ability:Protean
-Mat block
-Dark pulse
-Ice beam
-Grass knot
4Hp/4Def/252Sp.Atk/4Sp.Def/244Spe
This is turskain's greninja using only 244spe evs to reach 190 rather than 191 to give it a little bit more bulk. It lives for the same purposes as most M-Blastoise teams:Protect it and its partners from harm for the first turn, and to help finish off pokemon in conjunction with M-Blastoise, or in my case, Typhlosion.

Typhlosion@Charcoal**Bolganone
Nature:Modest
Ability:Flash Fire
-Eruption
-Solarbeam
-HP ground
-Protect
172Hp/4Def/248Sp.Atk/8Sp.Def/76Spe
This is my replacemeñt of M-Blastoise. Typhlosion has some pretty cool stuff. Charcoal boosts its power to greater than that of M-Blastoises and it needs less speed investment. 76spe evs is just enough to hit 130 allowing it to hit 260 under tail wind beating manectric4, the fastest post battle 40 pokemon, by two points. Solar beam is useful against some buly water and stuff like carracosta and barbaracle. Hidden power ground is necessary against bastiodon as it carrys wide guard which completely shuts down Eruption and hidden power ground nets a 2HKO. Charcoal is used over choice specs as it allows me to run protect which is infinetly useful against aerodactyl4, landorus2, terakkion2 etc. I could go for 100speed evs to get to a better number outside of tailwind by the extra bulk is appreciated.
A Calc:
252 Atk Darmanitan Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 146-174 (83.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This bulk allows it to survive Darmanitan4's stone edge which is crucial as it is a choice scarf one therefore out speeding greninja.

Talonflame@Sharp beak**Yune
Nature:Adamant
Ability:Gale wings
-Brave bird
-Flare blitz
-Tailwind
-Sunny day
252Hp/252Atk/4Sp.Def
Talonflame is there for priority tailwind and sunny day to boost eruptions power. One cool thing is to use Flare blitz on Typhlosion to net a Flash Fire boost.

Rotom-W@Choice specs**Tubby
Nature:Modest
Ability:Levitate
-Volt switch
-Thunderbolt
-HP water
-Dark pulse
164Hp/4Def/120Sp.Atk/4Sp.def/216Spe
This is turskains rotom wash with adjusted evs to go with a 31/xx/31/30/31/30. It also has dark pulse for useful cross field and anti-Trick room. I might want to switch out dark pulse for discharge for useful stuff paired with Garchomp and greninja.

Garchomp@Life orb**M=u/c
Nature:Jolly
Ability:Rough skin
-Earthquake
-Dragon claw
-Swords dance
-Protect
12Hp/236Atk/4Def/4Sp.Def/252spe
Again turskains set. Not even gonna say anything about this one.

Scizor@Choice Band**Lon'qu
Nature:Adamant
Ability: Technician
-Bullet punch
-U-turn
-Super power
-Quick attack
212Hp/252Atk/44Spe
44Spe evs allow it to hit 91 and beat annoying stuff like lanturn4 and other things. I probably should change its set to a bulkier one as with choice band all that attack is less needed. I would probably alter it to be able to avoid the 2HKO from rotom wash's discharge if I do change it.

Comments are always welcome.

 

[Marowak2000]

Pardon my ignorance but is the Ai aloud to send out 2 honchcrows in a super rotation battle??

 

[DK Quagmire]

Iv'e discovered something rather annoying when using sleep moves on a Durant team. Even when Durant sets up Entrainment on the sleeping Pokemon and you switch to your main attacker, the opponent will randomly wake up during your Dragon dance/ swords dance move, and hit you, even though it's ability is now Truant. This has caught me by surprise on a few occasions now, and has me question "Why should I even use a sleeping move?"
I lost a run barely 20 matches in when my brand new bred Whiscash used dragon dance on a Roserade, after using protect the turn it switched in after Durant used Entrainment, (As i had always done with my cloyster team) and it woke up and used Giga Drain on me. I gave up and forfeit. Sleep seems extremely unreliable and its hard to predict when they'll wake up. Iv'e even had the turn 1 sleep wake on a fire type against my Durant, before it even got the chance to use entrainment. You can tell how that went down.
In case your wondering who my sleep user was, I'm using Prankster Meowstic with Yawn. But now I think i'm going to change its Yawn attack for something like Flash, Charm or Thunder Wave. Confide could be considered if it lowered the foes sp. atk 2 stages instead of just 1.
My Moveset so far has been Trick (Choice scarf) Yawn, Protect and Torment. and funnily enough, ten battles in I got caught in a lead Dugtrio's Areana trap, and with Trick, Protect and torment, I was able to make it struggle it's self to death. So those moves are definitely staying. LOL

 

[NoCheese]

Pardon my ignorance but is the Ai aloud to send out 2 honchcrows in a super rotation battle??

Smells like a Zoroark in the house.

 

[Marowak2000]

Smells like a Zoroark in the house.

That's a good point...id like to confirm that but my biggest weakness in the maison is concentration and I just used kanga to KO the 3 poke I was against whilst I was reducing image size for that post so didn't witness the KO for the first honchcrow..next time i'll be less excited about seeing an abnomally and think about why it may be there lol! :/

 

[NoCheese]

I actually have a team of my own to post, 385 wins in XY Super Triples

Battle videos:#386 ZCBG-WWWW-WW2F-8EUJ
Couple TR battles:
TZDG-WWWW-WW2F-8EVU
ZEYW-WWWW-WW2F-8F2C

Greninja@Focus sash**Geico
Nature:Timid
Ability:Protean
-Mat block
-Dark pulse
-Ice beam
-Grass knot
4Hp/4Def/252Sp.Atk/4Sp.Def/244Spe
This is turskain's greninja using only 244spe evs to reach 190 rather than 191 to give it a little bit more bulk. It lives for the same purposes as most M-Blastoise teams:Protect it and its partners from harm for the first turn, and to help finish off pokemon in conjunction with M-Blastoise, or in my case, Typhlosion.

Typhlosion@Charcoal**Bolganone
Nature:Modest
Ability:Flash Fire
-Eruption
-Solarbeam
-HP ground
-Protect
172Hp/4Def/248Sp.Atk/8Sp.Def/76Spe
This is my replacemeñt of M-Blastoise. Typhlosion has some pretty cool stuff. Charcoal boosts its power to greater than that of M-Blastoises and it needs less speed investment. 76spe evs is just enough to hit 130 allowing it to hit 260 under tail wind beating manectric4, the fastest post battle 40 pokemon, by two points. Solar beam is useful against some buly water and stuff like carracosta and barbaracle. Hidden power ground is necessary against bastiodon as it carrys wide guard which completely shuts down Eruption and hidden power ground nets a 2HKO. Charcoal is used over choice specs as it allows me to run protect which is infinetly useful against aerodactyl4, landorus2, terakkion2 etc. I could go for 100speed evs to get to a better number outside of tailwind by the extra bulk is appreciated.
A Calc:
252 Atk Darmanitan Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 4 Def Typhlosion: 146-174 (83.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This bulk allows it to survive Darmanitan4's stone edge which is crucial as it is a choice scarf one therefore out speeding greninja.

Talonflame@Sharp beak**Yune
Nature:Adamant
Ability:Gale wings
-Brave bird
-Flare blitz
-Tailwind
-Sunny day
252Hp/252Atk/4Sp.Def
Talonflame is there for priority tailwind and sunny day to boost eruptions power. One cool thing is to use Flare blitz on Typhlosion to net a Flash Fire boost.

Rotom-W@Choice specs**Tubby
Nature:Modest
Ability:Levitate
-Volt switch
-Thunderbolt
-HP water
-Dark pulse
164Hp/4Def/120Sp.Atk/4Sp.def/216Spe
This is turskains rotom wash with adjusted evs to go with a 31/xx/31/30/31/30. It also has dark pulse for useful cross field and anti-Trick room. I might want to switch out dark pulse for discharge for useful stuff paired with Garchomp and greninja.

Garchomp@Life orb**M=u/c
Nature:Jolly
Ability:Rough skin
-Earthquake
-Dragon claw
-Swords dance
-Protect
12Hp/236Atk/4Def/4Sp.Def/252spe
Again turskains set. Not even gonna say anything about this one.

Scizor@Choice Band**Lon'qu
Nature:Adamant
Ability: Technician
-Bullet punch
-U-turn
-Super power
-Quick attack
212Hp/252Atk/44Spe
44Spe evs allow it to hit 91 and beat annoying stuff like lanturn4 and other things. I probably should change its set to a bulkier one as with choice band all that attack is less needed. I would probably alter it to be able to avoid the 2HKO from rotom wash's discharge if I do change it.

Comments are always welcome.

A ways back, we were theorymoning and discussing the generally underused nature of the fourth moveslot on Triples Talonflame, and the possibility of Sunny Day + Eruption came up as a great way to get value from that slot. For quite a while, I was really eager to play such a team, and was really pleased when kuladiamond put together a big streak. But over time, my interest in doing likewise waned. But the thought of adding Flash Fire to the mix, as overkill as it surely is in many cases, rekindles the fire (heh) to breed up this front row and build myself a new triples team.

I love your front row, so no need for comments there. Pity that breeding HP Ground Flash Fire Typhlosion is a little time consuming since it can't be 5th gen RNGed, but such is a small price for greatness.

Garchomp seems like a slam dunk for your squad, so no issues there too. However, I wonder if you can't do better on the last two Pokemon. For example, you don't use a mega at all. This yields three very tempting options: Mega Scizor, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Gardevoir.

Mega Scizor may cost you a bit of power relative to the Choice Band Scizor you currently run, but the better bulk, Speed, and flexibilty seem advantageous. And (Mega or not) coming from a back row Pokemon, U-turn seems a lot less exciting than Technician-boosted Bug Bite.

Mega Kangaskhan is not just an overall amazing "good stuff" Pokemon, but she also plays the Trick Room game quite nicely, with both Fake Out and Sucker Punch being extremely helpful in a Trick Room situation.

Mega Gardevoir provides, most notably, an amazing backup nuke. On my Mega Blastoise streak, there were times when Blastoise alone couldn't get the job done, and having a back up spread smasher (in my case the weaker Specs Sylveon) was very, very useful. Mega Gardevoir also has a really broad support movepool, so there's a ton of reasonable ways to fill out the rest of her moves after the obvious Hyper Voice.

Another possibility is replacing Rotom-W with something else that has access to priority and/or Fake Out, like Hitmontop or Mienshao. Rotom-W is lovely glue, but never really excites me in the Maison, and being stuck with HP Water for a STAB is always frustrating, especially when it may have to attack under Sunny Day. Mienshao and Hitmontop don't Levitate, but Wide Guard means you can still play nicely with Garchomp's Earthquake, while Fake Out gives you even more Trick Room resilience. I loved Mienshao on my Mega Blastoise streak, and The Laney had some nice success with Hitmontop too (though he did indeed pair it with Rotom-W, so perhaps I'm being too harsh on the ol' washing machine).

Overall, these are mostly just little quibbles, though. Nice team!

Also, I've updated through here, so as always, please let me know if I've missed anything. Continued good luck on the streaks!

 

[sunzet-therian forme]

A ways back, we were theorymoning and discussing the generally underused nature of the fourth moveslot on Triples Talonflame, and the possibility of Sunny Day + Eruption came up as a great way to get value from that slot. For quite a while, I was really eager to play such a team, and was really pleased when kuladiamond put together a big streak. But over time, my interest in doing likewise waned. But the thought of adding Flash Fire to the mix, as overkill as it surely is in many cases, rekindles the fire (heh) to breed up this front row and build myself a new triples team.

I love your front row, so no need for comments there. Pity that breeding HP Ground Flash Fire Typhlosion is a little time consuming since it can't be 5th gen RNGed, but such is a small price for greatness.

Garchomp seems like a slam dunk for your squad, so no issues there too. However, I wonder if you can't do better on the last two Pokemon. For example, you don't use a mega at all. This yields three very tempting options: Mega Scizor, Mega Kangaskhan, and Mega Gardevoir.

Mega Scizor may cost you a bit of power relative to the Choice Band Scizor you currently run, but the better bulk, Speed, and flexibilty seem advantageous. And (Mega or not) coming from a back row Pokemon, U-turn seems a lot less exciting than Technician-boosted Bug Bite.

Mega Kangaskhan is not just an overall amazing "good stuff" Pokemon, but she also plays the Trick Room game quite nicely, with both Fake Out and Sucker Punch being extremely helpful in a Trick Room situation.

Mega Gardevoir provides, most notably, an amazing backup nuke. On my Mega Blastoise streak, there were times when Blastoise alone couldn't get the job done, and having a back up spread smasher (in my case the weaker Specs Sylveon) was very, very useful. Mega Gardevoir also has a really broad support movepool, so there's a ton of reasonable ways to fill out the rest of her moves after the obvious Hyper Voice.

Another possibility is replacing Rotom-W with something else that has access to priority and/or Fake Out, like Hitmontop or Mienshao. Rotom-W is lovely glue, but never really excites me in the Maison, and being stuck with HP Water for a STAB is always frustrating, especially when it may have to attack under Sunny Day. Mienshao and Hitmontop don't Levitate, but Wide Guard means you can still play nicely with Garchomp's Earthquake, while Fake Out gives you even more Trick Room resilience. I loved Mienshao on my Mega Blastoise streak, and The Laney had some nice success with Hitmontop too (though he did indeed pair it with Rotom-W, so perhaps I'm being too harsh on the ol' washing machine).

Overall, these are mostly just little quibbles, though. Nice team!

Also, I've updated through here, so as always, please let me know if I've missed anything. Continued good luck on the streaks!

Thanks for the advice. M-Gardevoir sounds good and I like it but I don't know if it has room for that many support moves. Obviously I want hypervoice and I like the secondary STAB in psyshock that lets me hit blissey hard. HP ground is the most common choice that helps vs bastiodon if Typhlosion down.

I like Hitmontop and mienshao but I definitely want a ground immunity in the back up line. Landorus2 gets me every time, as seen the losing battle when I made the mistake of not immediately switching typhosion out for rotom-w. Obviously I could use air balloon on Mienshao or Hitmontop like in your streak.

I might try it out as I was very dissatisfied with this streak making crappy decisions along the whole way.

 

[MQJinx]

Lost at battle 233 in Super Singles. Here's the video: 3JNG-WWWW-WW2F-KUBA

Basically all went well until Volcarona4 dodged a Rock Tomb and got a Flame Body burn on Kangaskhan.

Used the same team as in this post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-148#post-6212090

 

[Commanda Panda]

How can I provide proof that I cleared all of battle Maison variants and have all of the trophies in both X/Y and ORAS?

 

[SwampySwampert]

Is Castform any good as a staller for a hail team in Doubles? I'm thinking something like this:

Castform-I Icy Rock
Ability: Forecast
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 SpA


Moves:
Attract
Toxic
Hail
Blizzard

Basically, it sets up, then switches out to Froslass or Walden to spam Blizzard. Attract and Toxic are good for stalling, while Blizzard is good if Castform actually needs to kill something.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Is Castform any good as a staller for a hail team in Doubles?

Stall is generally bad in Doubles, because the opponent has two Pokemon they can use to KO either one of yours, meaning your Pokemon will be knocked out before standard stall gambits do any real damage. Manual weather is generally really bad in Doubles (the possible exception being when it boosts a super-powered move like Eruption to levels where it OHKOs both opponents), because on the turn when one of your Pokemon uses Hail, the two opposing Pokemon can use Flare Blitz and Head Smash.

And if you were trying to stall or use manual weather, Castform is one of the last Pokemon you should choose to do it, thanks to its middling speed and poor bulk. But regardless of what Pokemon you're using (including Abomasnow), Hail is a poor choice in Doubles, because all it really does in such a fast-paced format is boost Blizzard's accuracy. Any opponent (and they are numerous) who comes out with bulky Steel-types (especially Heatran) will make short work of you.

There's a reason why, in the top ten Doubles streaks (and possibly much further down than that, I haven't checked), the only Pokemon who uses status moves is Aron (i.e. a Pokemon who has nothing else to do with its moveslots). You want to stick to hitting hard and fast as much as possible.

 

[NoCheese]

How can I provide proof that I cleared all of battle Maison variants and have all of the trophies in both X/Y and ORAS?

Post a picture of the screen with your character and the trophies. ORAS looks different because Wally will be there too.

 

[faith_grins]

Stall is generally bad in Doubles, because the opponent has two Pokemon they can use to KO either one of yours, meaning your Pokemon will be knocked out before standard stall gambits do any real damage. Manual weather is generally really bad in Doubles (the possible exception being when it boosts a super-powered move like Eruption to levels where it OHKOs both opponents), because on the turn when one of your Pokemon uses Hail, the two opposing Pokemon can use Flare Blitz and Head Smash.

And if you were trying to stall or use manual weather, Castform is one of the last Pokemon you should choose to do it, thanks to its middling speed and poor bulk. But regardless of what Pokemon you're using (including Abomasnow), Hail is a poor choice in Doubles, because all it really does in such a fast-paced format is boost Blizzard's accuracy. Any opponent (and they are numerous) who comes out with bulky Steel-types (especially Heatran) will make short work of you.

There's a reason why, in the top ten Doubles streaks (and possibly much further down than that, I haven't checked), the only Pokemon who uses status moves is Aron (i.e. a Pokemon who has nothing else to do with its moveslots). You want to stick to hitting hard and fast as much as possible.

Am I misremembering this, or aren't there multiple Trick Room teams in the top 10 of Doubles? Like, at least two? Whose Trick Room setter has other, non-damaging moves? Or is that the beer talking?