EXTREME Tier Shift

[Adrian Marin]

It's still funny to see how certain pokemon change their power level so quickly,pu's pokes suck anyway bc they get the same stat boost as nu's,which are obviously superior

I have to say this this isn't true at all. A lot of Pokemon in PU and NFE have good uses in EXTREME TS, such as Flareon and Sliggoo.

I honestly think that this metagame is seriously going to be dominated by stall, more so than regular TS. Very little can oppose stall if it's built to counter specific threats, e.g, stallbreaker Haunter.

 

[apuilsalame]

I have to say this this isn't true at all. A lot of Pokemon in PU and NFE have good uses in EXTREME TS, such as Flareon and Sliggoo.

I honestly think that this metagame is seriously going to be dominated by stall, more so than regular TS. Very little can oppose stall if it's built to counter specific threats, e.g, stallbreaker Haunter.

of course some pokemon are as good,just take a look at eviolite dusclops,he has 30% more bulk than giratina

 

[Akiii]

I don't understand why people see x Mon that now has a stat that exceeds 150, then think that it is the new pariah. The entire meta has a boosted BST.

True, but check this out:
Marowak goes up to 110 base attack and it gets Huge Power in form of an item - Thick Club. For comparison, Mega Mawile has 105 base attack.
Anything that let's you boost up your stats like this immediately inflates the stat boosts, like the many Eviolite abusers.
If I am not mistaken, this makes Marowak the mon with the highest Attack stat in this OM (along with access to SD and Bonemerang, which has that shitty 90 accuracy but hits twice). Of course it still has no priority and it can easily be statused but I'm still excited to try it out. It even has some nice physical balk with 90/140/110.

 

[MK]

wowoowowow 30 to each chat
well i can make my fav mon broken :^)))
*well second

I Present to you.... Lord electivire
Electivire seems so good in this meta as the stat change goes from
75/123/67/95/85/95 And Goes To 105/153/97/125/115/125

Now look at that attack stat as well as the speed and spA its defences aren't so bad either.

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Cross Chop
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch

The set is powerful and wild charge also shits on alomomola.
Cross chop can deal with chansey easily
Fire punch can break amoongus.

252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Cross Chop vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 468-551 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 226-268 (52.3 - 62%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 416-491 (85.4 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

So yeah practically evire says fuck stall

Did you calculate them with the boosted stats? I don't think Alomomola would be taking that much.

I also think Electabuzz would be better, because of its higher speed, and they have the same special attack.

 

[Adrian Marin]

wowoowowow 30 to each chat
well i can make my fav mon broken :^)))
*well second

I Present to you.... Lord electivire
Electivire seems so good in this meta as the stat change goes from
75/123/67/95/85/95 And Goes To 105/153/97/125/115/125

Now look at that attack stat as well as the speed and spA its defences aren't so bad either.

Electivire @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Cross Chop
- Fire Punch/Ice Punch

The set is powerful and wild charge also shits on alomomola.
Cross chop can deal with chansey easily
Fire punch can break amoongus.

252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Cross Chop vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 468-551 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 226-268 (52.3 - 62%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 416-491 (85.4 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

So yeah practically evire says fuck stall

Umm no, Evire isn't all that threatening against stall. If anything, it should be used as a check to various birds while serving as a fast and strong attacker.

As a matter of fact, there isn't much that can even threaten stall. Stall seems to be so good that it's borderline broken already. With various threats such as Mega Audino running around, stallbreaking seems to be the obvious choice for breaking stall teams; however, with a lot of Pokemon that are good against stallbreakers, such as Lickilicky and Aromatisse, even stallbreaking is difficult. It's also worth noting that, for the most part, the most threatening wallbreakers are actually OU in TS, and their offensive power has been watered down considerably due to the amount of bulk these walls have. Since a large majority of wallbreakers have been seriously nerfed, stall simply needs to focus almost solely on the lower tier wallbreakers, which by the way, are mostly kind of one-dimensional and easy to prepare for.

 

[Josh]

/me revives thread

I present to you:

Has anyone tried Meloetta in ETS? With 120/97/97/148/148/110 stats it looks a very formidable threat.

 

[Manchamp]

Miltank has always been one of my favorites in NU, and now it becomes an amazing wall and cleric of OU standards. It's solid 95/80/105/40/70/100 stats become a monstrous 125/110/135/70/100/130, with physical defensive stats greater than Lugia and Cresselia. It can use Milk Drink and Heal Bell to stay alive and support the team. It's also no slacker when it comes to attacking, 110 attack and 130 speed being slightly stronger than Aerodactyl. Body Slam and EQ are good attacks to run. Quite a monster.
Another I'd like to use is Dusknoir, sporting incredible 75/130/165/95/165/75 stats. Dusclops is certainly much bulkier, 70/160/160 defenses and eviolite, but I like Dusknoir because of that huge 130 Attack, which he can use to smash stuff with EQ, punches, and a powerful priority shadow sneak. Also he isn't as ruined if hit by knock off.
I feel like there won't be any OU mons viable in this meta, which is fine but it would be kinda fun to see them get smashed but the high-powered low-tier mons.

 

[tegrof19]

I feel like there won't be any OU mons viable in this meta, which is fine but it would be kinda fun to see them get smashed but the high-powered low-tier mons.

If we really wanna give OU mon's a boost, we can start ou/bl at +10 and increment by 5 each tier and its respective BL below. This makes UU/BL2 a bit stronger and NU and below a bit weaker (unless PU could be included but that's stretching it). Ofc this isn't up to my discretion, just a possibility to make higher tiers more usable.

Just maybe

 

[Mega Ampharos]

Does this mean that PU Mons will get a boast of 40 since PU is official now and in regular Tier Shift PU gets +20?

 

[OM]

Does this mean that PU Mons will get a boast of 40 since PU is official now and in regular Tier Shift PU gets +20?

In regular tier shift yes, so I believe that it would.

 

[G-Luke]

Well since PU is an official tier now, certain things need to be fixed to make Xtreme Tier Shift a healthy meta for all!

BANS
Eviolite
Seriously. This shouldn't be a discussion. Eviolite makes Stall even MORE centralizing than before, since A LOT of NFEs are in PU.

Drizzle + Swiftswim
Like almost nothing can handle this combo. Nothing on offence. Almost nothing can handle it on stall (since eviolite is broken). Not even the mighty Primaldon can handle it, since a lot of things can 2HKO it effortlessly on Rain. Its just too powerful.

Baton Pass Clause
Just edit it to the OU style clause, since SS Pass is broken as fuk.

Suspects

Shadow Tag
Users are either SUPER bulky (230 HP Wobbofett), SUPER fast and powerful (Mega Gengar) or a mixture of both (Gothorita). They easily pick off opponents they choose.

Slaking (And maybe Regigigas)
If it wasn't for their respective nerfing abilities, they would be quickbanned. But not even them can stop them from being OP. Slaking has 190/140/105 defenses and 200/135/140 offences + Reliable recovery makes it seriously powerful. Regi has 160/160/160 defenses and 200/120/140 offences + T.Wave and sub allows it to outstall Slow Start and LAY DOWN THE HURT! So I think they need looking into.

 

[EV]

A Pokemon could have 200 stats across the board but if it has Truant it's still trash.

 

[G-Luke]

A Pokemon could have 200 stats across the board but if it has Truant it's still trash.

Do you still agree with the other things? Tagging Kl4ng to see this too.

 

[EV]

Regi only has 150 defenses btw, and no.

 

[Klang]

While Eviolite among other things may very well have been broken even before PU became official, it's necessary to wait until the metagame becomes playable to draw any meaningful conclusion in debatable bans like these.

 

[thdhted]

Regigigas doesn't really deserve a ban. Maybe a suspect, but not a ban. It has no real recovery outside of Drain Punch, Has coverage that is limited to Return/Knock Off/Earthquake/Rock Slide/maybe an elemental punch. all of which besides return are kinda weak against a neutral hit. It still has to wait out those 5 turns, in which it can pick up statuses it can't cure(it cannot learn rest)/get walled to death by quagod. All in all, what really screw Regigigas out of a ban is a lack of ANY recovery outside of lefties. Drain Punch does barely any damage outside of supereffective hits, and as mentioned, does not learn Rest. It doesn't even get Protect to stall out a turn or two.
In other words, we get a reasonably tanky 'mon that has to sit for five turns with THIS:
252+ Atk Slow Start Regigigas Return vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 180-213 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is a Extreme Tier shift Regigigas against an unboosted-non-tier shift abomasnow.
Realistically? Not really worth it.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Its also worth noting that if ETS is following current TS rules, then Shadow Tag Wobbuffet gets zero boosts.

 

[9destra]

Nothing shits on Stall quite like a Banded Slaking with Stealth Rock and 1 Spikes up, and these calcs are made with the actual boosts.

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 433-510 (91.7 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 403-475 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 366-432 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 192-228 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 316-372 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 314-370 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Most of the good walls that get recovery are utterly annihilated by Slaking. Hail your new overlord: SLAKING.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Nothing shits on Stall quite like a Banded Slaking with Stealth Rock and 1 Spikes up, and these calcs are made with the actual boosts.

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 433-510 (91.7 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 403-475 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 366-432 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 192-228 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 316-372 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 314-370 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Most of the good walls that get recovery are utterly annihilated by Slaking. Hail your new overlord: SLAKING.

You are forgetting both alomomola and Mega Audino will run Protect, so Slaking literally can't touch them. And if Slaking fails to OHKO, the Stall mon just heals right back up. Surely there is a stall breaker with a less backbreaking ability? Also Giga Impact prevents you from switching the turn after so that's bad too.

 

[bp scrub]

hail your new overlord tangela
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 212-250 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[LightningLord2]

How's Dusclops doing? 80/170/170 bulk enhanced by Eviolite, two handy (but not overly powerful) abilities and a solid 110 Attack stat for decent offensive pressure. It is held back by a lack of reliable recovery, though.

 

[Esprite]

How's Dusclops doing? 80/170/170 bulk enhanced by Eviolite, two handy (but not overly powerful) abilities and a solid 110 Attack stat for decent offensive pressure. It is held back by a lack of reliable recovery, though.

That last part kills it, a wall isn't viable without reliable recovery. If a stall breaker takes its HP by half, it's trash, even setup bait.

 

[thdhted]

It's not just the lack of recovery, there's also the fact that Dusclops' best ways of dealing damage are Toxic and/or Night Shade, making it even bigger set up bait. Pain Split isn't much, but its something. The lack of any way of dealing noticeable damage is what kills it.

I've gotta say, Regirock has been a pretty solid lead vs offense in my experience. Super solid bulk on both ends (110/230/130), decent support options in Twave and SR, and enough power to take on most offensive leads and some defensive. If you really feel like it, you can also slap Explosion on it for a gimmicky suicide lead.

 

[G-Luke]

Nothing shits on Stall quite like a Banded Slaking with Stealth Rock and 1 Spikes up, and these calcs are made with the actual boosts.

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 433-510 (91.7 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 403-475 (70.2 - 82.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 366-432 (80.6 - 95.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 192-228 (45.2 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 316-372 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 314-370 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Most of the good walls that get recovery are utterly annihilated by Slaking. Hail your new overlord: SLAKING.

Slakung used Giga Impact!
Quagsire lost 99% of its health!

Quagsire used Scald!
Slaking lost 30% of its health!
Slaking got burned!
Quagsire healed alittle HP with leftovers.
Slaking got hurt by its burn!

Slaking is loafing around!
Quagsire used Recover! Regained Health!
Quagsire recovered alittle HP with its leftovers.
Slaking is hurt by its burn!

Wash.Rinse.Repeat.

 

[Jerry311]

I cant believe no one has mentioned gogoat. 163/140/102/137/121/108 stats is op. that's a bst of 771. oh and it gets bulk up, horn leech and milk drink. honestly, how has no one noticed this. I know it gets ohkoed by slaking 252+ cb gunk shot, but what that is weak to poison doesn't. Also can I point out that honedge is better than doublade because Doublade: 69/120/160/55/59/45 Honedge: 85/120/140/75/77/68. better all around except tieing for attack and having 20 less def. Oh and kadabra is pretty good with 80/75/70/160/110/145 stats. No one has mentioned this at all and I find it rediclous.

Main point: Gogoat is broken, honedge is pretty good, Kadabra is pretty good, doublade sucks.

EDIT: forgot one thing: Magikarp has a powerful hydro pump coming off that base 55 spa. be very afraid