CAP 21 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

[nyttyn]

crit happens is cool on paper but in practice there's literally one way to do a crit based sweeper: the ability super luck combined with focus energy.

and even then it's a inferior dragon dance / swords dance save something like a special attacker sweeper against a calm mind block.

 

[Ununhexium]

Or you can use a scope lens and focus energy with the ability sniper and spam a stat dropping move ie Draco meteor leaf storm superpower etc

 

[Mulan15262]

Or you could do super luck pokemon holding a razor claw or scope lens and using high-crit ratio moves such as Aeroblast, Drill Run, or Stone Edge. There are a lot of options here.

 

[Empress]

Okay, okay, we get that there are a lot of ways to go about Crit Happens. Problem is that they're all rather simple and restrictive. On the other hand, a special attacker that can smash a boosted CM Clef and Mega Sableye would be nice...

 

[tehy]

The problem is more that there's only 2 ways to go about it:

1:Super Luck

2:Sniper + Scope Lens

these are like the only Good ways to do it, and Kingdra is already covered on the second (as is Drapion to an extent).

There's also Super Luck + crit moves, but only Leaf Blade has the BP to really make that worth it, and if you don't have either ability it's not really a great idea, as we have seen from dragons universally not bothering with Focus Energy + Scope Lens + Draco Meteor(!!!) + awesome coverage.

edit:

yeah, i definitely forgot about some of those, my bad. still, none of these are preferred STABS (Except the signatures)

 

[Mulan15262]

The problem is more that there's only 2 ways to go about it:

1:Super Luck

2:Sniper + Scope Lens

these are like the only Good ways to do it, and Kingdra is already covered on the second (as is Drapion to an extent).

There's also Super Luck + crit moves, but only Leaf Blade has the BP to really make that worth it, and if you don't have either ability it's not really a great idea, as we have seen from dragons universally not bothering with Focus Energy + Scope Lens + Draco Meteor(!!!) + awesome coverage.

More moves that just Leaf Blade exist with high BP. Aeroblast, Crabhammer, Cross Chop, Spacial Rend, and Stone Edge all have 100 BP, Attack Order and Leaf Blade have 90 BP, Blaze Kick has 85 BP, and Drill Run has 80. Of those, only Cross Chop and Stone Edge have below 90% accuracy.

Those are quite a few moves, it's just that many are simply not used due to poor distribution (Aeroblast, Crabhammer, Spacial Rend, Attack Order) or there being generally better options(Cross Chop, Blaze Kick, Drill Run).

 

[ginganinja]

I'm pretty sure that Aeroblast / Attack Order / Spacial Rend are signature moves, although I could be wrong. Regardless, I still think the concept is pretty situational, since you are forced into a limited group of moves, a particular ability, and (most probably), an item as well. It also throws a wrench (not saying its impossible, just frustrating) into balance, since whenever you want to have as a counter has to be able to survive a really dumb CH or something.

 

[EternalSnowman]

I'm pretty sure that Aeroblast / Attack Order / Spacial Rend are signature moves, although I could be wrong. Regardless, I still think the concept is pretty situational, since you are forced into a limited group of moves, a particular ability, and (most probably), an item as well. It also throws a wrench (not saying its impossible, just frustrating) into balance, since whenever you want to have as a counter has to be able to survive a really dumb CH or something.

I actually think it is pretty balanced since crits have been nerfed to 2.0X. It is really predictable, it pretty much stops defense boosting mons and ignores your own Stat drops. Overall I don't really think that it can really be considered that bad in terms of teambuilding since giving it lower base offenses pretty much will make sure that it will throw it off. Many wallbreakers are able to make use of high BP moves despite low stats like Infernape (amazing wallbreaker despite low base stats, uses high BP STABs and coverage moves) or Victini. Another option is to use the 100% crit moves like Frost Breath with Technician/Sniper. I still go back to my other post, because I am taking a neutral position here, I agree it still restricts the process in moves and abilities and possibly an item. Still, I think it is one of the most interesting concepts yet.

 

[ginganinja]

Pretty sure Infernape gets hard walled by stall nowadays (its possible I'm out of touch but last I checked the current "version" of stall had it checked) so I'm not really sure if its the greatest example you could come up with. Infernape and Victini don't use CH moves on their movesets anymore (that I know of) so I'm not really sure what your point is. Everyone knows high BP moves + STAB + a boosting item = damage so ok?

The concept locks you into one of two abilities, possibly an item, and sorts out half your moveset for you. Plus, at the end of the day there isn't actually any reason for anyone to actually go a critical route, you would need to remove temptation moves such as SD from the movelist (otherwise it ignores CH fishing and goes standard sweeper), and you need to micromanage its STAB options so its inclined to use a critical move over another one. Of course, if at the end of the day you don't make its CH set good enough, then the entire CAP falls flat on its ass because anything else we could do was stripped away but I digress.

I'll be honest here, I hate concepts like this, which pigeonhole a CAP into a specific set. Its not because its impossible, its because you have to bend over backwards to make it "The Best Set", and if the set isn't even good enough to begin with, you have a trash mon, because it cannot do anything else. Compare that with like, a typing concept CAP, which might suck at sweeping (like me might have wanted it to), but might have an ok scarf set or something. I think this concept just wants to CH its way past walls, and if it can CH its way past walls, then it can CH its way past everything else. If it doesn't CH its way past walls, then well, it doesn't really do much else. I'm pretty sure that moves such as Psyshock (against some targets), or like, Stored Power trump some unaware/enemy boosters, and there isn't really anything to learn from the concept, the questions being asked are all design specific eg "What typing will we give it".

I don't like it.

 

[Mulan15262]

Pretty sure Infernape gets hard walled by stall nowadays (its possible I'm out of touch but last I checked the current "version" of stall had it checked) so I'm not really sure if its the greatest example you could come up with. Infernape and Victini don't use CH moves on their movesets anymore (that I know of) so I'm not really sure what your point is. Everyone knows high BP moves + STAB + a boosting item = damage so ok?

The concept locks you into one of two abilities, possibly an item, and sorts out half your moveset for you. Plus, at the end of the day there isn't actually any reason for anyone to actually go a critical route, you would need to remove temptation moves such as SD from the movelist (otherwise it ignores CH fishing and goes standard sweeper), and you need to micromanage its STAB options so its inclined to use a critical move over another one. Of course, if at the end of the day you don't make its CH set good enough, then the entire CAP falls flat on its ass because anything else we could do was stripped away but I digress.

I'll be honest here, I hate concepts like this, which pigeonhole a CAP into a specific set. Its not because its impossible, its because you have to bend over backwards to make it "The Best Set", and if the set isn't even good enough to begin with, you have a trash mon, because it cannot do anything else. Compare that with like, a typing concept CAP, which might suck at sweeping (like me might have wanted it to), but might have an ok scarf set or something. I think this concept just wants to CH its way past walls, and if it can CH its way past walls, then it can CH its way past everything else. If it doesn't CH its way past walls, then well, it doesn't really do much else. I'm pretty sure that moves such as Psyshock (against some targets), or like, Stored Power trump some unaware/enemy boosters, and there isn't really anything to learn from the concept, the questions being asked are all design specific eg "What typing will we give it".

I don't like it.

There are several different ways it could go. You could do Super Luck + Focus Energy (which doesn't exist), Sniper + Scope Lens/Razor Claw + Focus Energy (best user is Kingdra, which is in BL2), Super Luck + Scope Lens/Razor Claw + high-crit moves (best user: non-mega Absol, which is outclassed by Mega Absol), or Storm Throw/Frost Breath + Technician/Sniper (which doesn't exist).

Those are four different ways that we could do this technique, two of which don't exist and two of which exist, but are held back by poor distribution. With this, you are locked into 1 or 2 moves, 3 possible abilities, and maybe an item, depending on which option you take.

Also, there are more questions that can be answered. We could see if the use of a pokemon that can reliably get critical hits brings an increase in the use of moves/abilities that prevent it (Battle Armor/Shell Armor and Lucky Chant). If this pokemon does its job effectively, some pokemon might use things not currently used to try to stop it.

 

[EternalSnowman]

There are several different ways it could go. You could do Super Luck + Focus Energy (which doesn't exist), Sniper + Scope Lens/Razor Claw + Focus Energy (best user is Kingdra, which is in BL2), Super Luck + Scope Lens/Razor Claw + high-crit moves (best user: non-mega Absol, which is outclassed by Mega Absol), or Storm Throw/Frost Breath + Technician/Sniper (which doesn't exist).

Those are four different ways that we could do this technique, two of which don't exist and two of which exist, but are held back by poor distribution. With this, you are locked into 1 or 2 moves, 3 possible abilities, and maybe an item, depending on which option you take.

Also, there are more questions that can be answered. We could see if the use of a pokemon that can reliably get critical hits brings an increase in the use of moves/abilities that prevent it (Battle Armor/Shell Armor and Lucky Chant). If this pokemon does its job effectively, some pokemon might use things not currently used to try to stop it.

inb4 Lucky Chant Clefable...

But in all seriousness I think Mulan brings up a lot of great points. Due to the appearance of a new mechanic to OU from CAP21 could bring some usage to moves/abilities that normally are inferior in many senses. It can teach us a lot about introducing new mechanics to OU and how the metagame adapts around this. While there have been instances of this before, since multiple are introduced at once, it normally becomes convoluted and hard to determine what really causes what. Introducing something like crit. sweeping/wallbreaking to OU could bring in the use of new cores defensive and offensive, while reducing and increasing the viability of certain mons. Say the new mon is walled completely by Torterra, who currently only sees by green players in OU for sentimental value. Due to its obvious flaws in stats, typing and movepool it still has common traits held by OU Pokemon like Skarmory or Hippo, so it could bring back a mon like that. It might also make a great partner to HazardStacking teams that fear Clefable or CroCune that are able to ignore passive damage and set up CM's. While the path to building the CAP itself may seem simple, the CAP can bring a lot to the OU metagame around it. Please tell me if I say something wrong... this may just be the ramblings of a mad man.

 

[ginganinja]

Using Focus Energy itself is largely a waste of time, when you could be simply using Swords Dance / Quiver Dance / Tail Glow / whatever. Sure, you get your CH thing on but people would always rely on something not situationally useful. Boosting moves either give you similar sort of power, OR boost your speed, making it more difficult to revenge. Anything using Scope Lens is doubtfully competitive, when you could be using like, LO/Choice/Anything thats actually good. This is also a metagame where Knock Off is king, and I don't like being tied to your item. This leaves Storm Throw/Frost Breath + Technician/Sniper, which is hardly at strong enough combo to make a CAP solely reliable on this.

We could see if the use of a pokemon that can reliably get critical hits brings an increase in the use of moves/abilities that prevent it (Battle Armor/Shell Armor and Lucky Chant).

Two Possible Outcomes.

Either the CAP we make is totally broken, in which case yes, Battle Armor might see use. Of course, if we then dropped this CAP into OU, it promptly gets banned for its unhealthy influence on teambuilding. Option two is nothing changes because pretty much anything viable in OU that could run Battle Armor has....better abilities it could be using? Why would you nerf your own teambuilding to handle one pokemon. Lucky Chant doesn't see use because its an utterly garbage move. Either the CAP is so strong that you would need to consider running said move (in which case its basically broken), or you don't run the move at all, because its still situational, and still guaranteed to be garbage.

Say the new mon is walled completely by Torterra, who currently only sees by green players in OU for sentimental value.

Hi my name is Kyogre and I get walled by Gastrodon. Hi my name is Groudon and I would often get walled by Claydol. Hi my name is Rayquaza and I can get OHKOed by a CB Huste Delibird Ice Shard. What do all of these things have in common? They are all shit in each respective tier. Like ok, some people would run Gastro and I think one person ran Claydol once but the point is that many typically strong pokemon have hard counters that are just shit in the respective tier. Either the CAP is walled ONLY by Torterra and smashes everything else (in which case its broken), or its not, and everyone uses that actually viable stuff to handle it. This isn't some fantasy world where World Peace exists and money grows on trees. People use what is good, and they sure as hell don't use what they think is bad. Expecting pokemon like Torterra, or moves like Lucky Chant to suddenly magically become OU staples is just delusional.

 

[Chaoseevee]

This is my first cap so I'm sorry in advance for mistakes
Name: Reduce Reuse Recycle

General Description: This cap is intended to be a pokemon that can take advantage of the move recycle and berries.

Justification: In this metagame every non-offensive and some offensive pokemon runs some form of recovery leftovers, rest, recovery etc, but very little pokemon have recovery that can reliably heal themselvess very quickly without losing a turn. While effectively this pokemon's healing would be a +0 but would allow a turn to attack. Because of this unique healing and how you would support it could be very versatile in functions.

Questions:
1. How would it work on teams and which teams Answer: It would work probally on balanced and offensive
2. Is there any way to make recycle a good move answer: Yes there is you could make it good many ways stats moves abillity typing etc

I hope it isnt to bad thanks for reading Edit: Please review

 

[Billy the Uncle]

Imagine if, for example, we had a Dragon type with the possible abilities Sniper and Super Luck, and access to Focus Energy and Draco Meteor.

Isn't this literally Kingdra? (Which was already mentioned as well.)

 

[ginganinja]

Yes, it is likely that nothing is going to be using Battle Armor/Shell Armor for that reason, but there are some walls, such as Clefable, that have access to Lucky Chant and don't use it because there isn't anything that can reliably crit in OU.

The move isn't used because its bad lol. Its illogical to think "hey, maybe I'll switch in Clefable in on something that CHs me, let it CH me again, and then set up a Lucky Chant, and then, idk, prolly die to the third hit. CAP switches out and then 3-4 turns later switches back in without a care in the world. Why would you run Lucky Chant over Stealth Rock / Heal Bell / Flamethrower / Thunder Wave / Calm Mind.

There is also the option of Anger Point. Tauros has a nice base 110 speed tier, and, at +6 with Life Orb and a moveset of Return/Earthquake/Zen Headbutt/Wild Charge, OHKOes walls like Mega Venusaur, Mega Slowbro, and Ferrothorn.

Yeah because Tauros is going to switch in and tank a SE Technician/Sniper affected Critical Hit Storm Throw...

I really, really don't think there is anything further to be said here, since all you seem to be doing is proving my point as to how situational this concept is.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

First time poster here please be kind hehe (But I've been lurking for years to be fair)

Name: Reset button
General Description: A Pokemon meant to who is meant to reset the fight for it's team by killing momentum.
Justification: In today's metagame, where pokemon hit faster and harder, momentum tends to swing quickly and can be decided as early as who you choose to send out first. In Gen VI, the abundance of powerful sweepers, priority users and wall-breakers mean one wrong move can lead to defeat. This pokemon is meant to reset the fight for a team that feels like it has lost crucial momentum and needs a reset button to get back into the fight. We've talked a lot about what momentum is and how teams gain momentum, but we've never truly explored the whole idea of killing momentum. This concept allows us to discuss and learn about what good players do to kill the momentum of an opposing player, and explore more about what creates momentum in Gen VI. Also, by designing a pokemon who is able to completely reset a fight, we can also learn more about the risk-reward ratio of creating momentum. Lastly, we can learn whether it is worth it to sacrifice a teamslot to reset the momentum of a fight, or whether a pokemon only is worthwhile if it can create and maintain momentum in your favour.
Questions To Be Answered:
-What kind of moves/abilities are able to kill the momentum of opposing teams (as opposed to swing momentum)? What kind of pokemon would be best at resetting a fight (A suicider? A wall? A utility pokemon?)?
-What kind of pokemon would thrive having a team mate able to kill an opposing team's momentum and which ones would suffer having an enemy able to do so?
-How will different playstyles be affected by a pokemon that is able to reset momentum? Will hyper-offensive teams die? Will stall teams flourish? Will anyone care?
-How much worth is a pokemon that cannot create or sustain momentum, but only stop it?
Explanation: While we have explored the idea of momentum with Tomohawk, it was in a pokemon that was able to create momentum and sustain its team's momentum. This concept is meant to create a pokemon that essentially resets the fight in terms of momentum and even potentially punishes an opponent for sacrificing too much to create momentum. This pokemon, however, would not be able to create its own momentum or sustain it's team's momentum (so moves like u-turn or memento may not be suitable, and it should not have a sustained offensive or defensive presence). Different kinds of teams have different ways of creating their own momentum, so ideally this pokemon should be able to stop different kinds of momentum as well, or at least be equipped to do so. (Eg. It could be a ground type that prevents volt-switching while having haze to reset stat boosts) It would be fun and interesting to see what kind of pokemon the community would come up with to reset a battle's momentum, and may force us to explore some of the lesser used moves to create such a pokemon that fulfils the above criteria.

 

[EternalSnowman]

First time poster here please be kind hehe (But I've been lurking for years to be fair)

Name: Reset button
General Description: A Pokemon meant to who is meant to reset the fight for it's team by killing momentum.
Justification: In today's metagame, where pokemon hit faster and harder, momentum tends to swing quickly and can be decided as early as who you choose to send out first. In Gen VI, the abundance of powerful sweepers, priority users and wall-breakers mean one wrong move can lead to defeat. This pokemon is meant to reset the fight for a team that feels like it has lost crucial momentum and needs a reset button to get back into the fight. We've talked a lot about what momentum is and how teams gain momentum, but we've never truly explored the whole idea of killing momentum. This concept allows us to discuss and learn about what good players do to kill the momentum of an opposing player, and explore more about what creates momentum in Gen VI. Also, by designing a pokemon who is able to completely reset a fight, we can also learn more about the risk-reward ratio of creating momentum. Lastly, we can learn whether it is worth it to sacrifice a teamslot to reset the momentum of a fight, or whether a pokemon only is worthwhile if it can create and maintain momentum in your favour.
Questions To Be Answered:
-What kind of moves/abilities are able to kill the momentum of opposing teams (as opposed to swing momentum)? What kind of pokemon would be best at resetting a fight (A suicider? A wall? A utility pokemon?)?
-What kind of pokemon would thrive having a team mate able to kill an opposing team's momentum and which ones would suffer having an enemy able to do so?
-How will different playstyles be affected by a pokemon that is able to reset momentum? Will hyper-offensive teams die? Will stall teams flourish? Will anyone care?
-How much worth is a pokemon that cannot create or sustain momentum, but only stop it?
Explanation: While we have explored the idea of momentum with Tomohawk, it was in a pokemon that was able to create momentum and sustain its team's momentum. This concept is meant to create a pokemon that essentially resets the fight in terms of momentum and even potentially punishes an opponent for sacrificing too much to create momentum. This pokemon, however, would not be able to create its own momentum or sustain it's team's momentum (so moves like u-turn or memento may not be suitable, and it should not have a sustained offensive or defensive presence). Different kinds of teams have different ways of creating their own momentum, so ideally this pokemon should be able to stop different kinds of momentum as well, or at least be equipped to do so. (Eg. It could be a ground type that prevents volt-switching while having haze to reset stat boosts) It would be fun and interesting to see what kind of pokemon the community would come up with to reset a battle's momentum, and may force us to explore some of the lesser used moves to create such a pokemon that fulfils the above criteria.

This would essentially require it to Hard Counter a few mons or just straight up stop VoltTurn teams... it doesn't really bring many options and would either fail or overcentralize the metagame. While it sounds cool on paper, I don't feel like its actually a concept we can explore and create.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

T

This would essentially require it to Hard Counter a few mons or just straight up stop VoltTurn teams... it doesn't really bring many options and would either fail or overcentralize the metagame. While it sounds cool on paper, I don't feel like its actually a concept we can explore and create.

Thanks for the reply, maybe I could elaborate more and give an example of what I mean.
The concept mon is not meant to be a straight up hard counter to a few mons or VoltTurn teams, but a mon that resets the momentum any kind of opposing team is able to get, whether it be a stall team or an offensive team. It is not meant to straight up counter such teams but perhaps may deter teams from trying to swing momentum in one shot (eg. Sacrificing a mon to get a sweeper in a position to boost and sweep)
It is not meant to have significant defensive or offensive presence, hence it's use would be pretty sparing, and we can design it to have multiple sets meant to reset the fight against different kinds of teams; hence it need not be a straight counter to all teams.
An example I can think of is Gen III (RSE) Weezing. His typing gave him only one weakness but he only had a noticeable fighting resist and ground immunity, and was outclassed by walls like skarmory, and while he had an offensive set his poor STAB and coverage limited his impact there. But having access to haze and explosion meant that in a pinch he was able to potentially reset boosting sweepers or threaten to force out with explosion, and barring a max boost he generally should have had the opportunity to get in once and tank a hit and stop the momentum. In that sense, he could fulfil that role without in any way being overcentralising.
I'm a bit rushed typing this, but I hope this helps clarify, and I feel there is worth exploring this idea of momentum stopping because it can yield fruitful discussions and give us a potentially cool Pokemon who may well be a colossal failure (but so have past CAPs, and we've always been able to learn from them)

 

[WhiteDMist]

T

Thanks for the reply, maybe I could elaborate more and give an example of what I mean.
The concept mon is not meant to be a straight up hard counter to a few mons or VoltTurn teams, but a mon that resets the momentum any kind of opposing team is able to get, whether it be a stall team or an offensive team. It is not meant to straight up counter such teams but perhaps may deter teams from trying to swing momentum in one shot (eg. Sacrificing a mon to get a sweeper in a position to boost and sweep)
It is not meant to have significant defensive or offensive presence, hence it's use would be pretty sparing, and we can design it to have multiple sets meant to reset the fight against different kinds of teams; hence it need not be a straight counter to all teams.
An example I can think of is Gen III (RSE) Weezing. His typing gave him only one weakness but he only had a noticeable fighting resist and ground immunity, and was outclassed by walls like skarmory, and while he had an offensive set his poor STAB and coverage limited his impact there. But having access to haze and explosion meant that in a pinch he was able to potentially reset boosting sweepers or threaten to force out with explosion, and barring a max boost he generally should have had the opportunity to get in once and tank a hit and stop the momentum. In that sense, he could fulfil that role without in any way being overcentralising.
I'm a bit rushed typing this, but I hope this helps clarify, and I feel there is worth exploring this idea of momentum stopping because it can yield fruitful discussions and give us a potentially cool Pokemon who may well be a colossal failure (but so have past CAPs, and we've always been able to learn from them)

Dont usually do this what wth :/
This is kind of similar to the Volt-Turn counter concept on page 7 though. The difference is that you expanded the range what what you want to stop, and no longer want to stop it, but rather the momentum gained from all the different methods of gaining momentum. Momentum is a bit of a buzzword that is hard to define, but there are tried and true methods in the Volt-Switch combo, dry Baton Passing, double switches, Substitute, Encore, Taunt, self-KO moves, etc. The thing is, you are asking to try and stop the momentum gained from as many of these methods as possible, which looks like a massive endeavor. Gen 3 was a different metagame, where these momentum moves were not around to basically overwhelm Weezing after all.

It would be better to explain how this differentiates from the Stop Volt-Switch concept mentioned prior, and then perhaps explain how to deal with all these variables in terms of momentum gaining. Hard to see this going far otherwise. gl

 

[ck620]

Name: Ability breaker


General Description: This pokemon is meant to change and alter the abilities of pokemon in play to ones less favorable to the opponent.


Justification: Pokemon battles are fought on many fronts; hit points (obviously), items, statuses, stat alterations, and even eliminating or limiting the opponents move options. Very little, however, exists in the meta to alter abilities and change them to your favor. Pokemon currently exist in the OU and CAP meta's that are played not necessarily because of their stellar stats or move pools, but because their otherwise mediocre moves/stats are more than compensated for by an outrageously good ability that launches them into becoming a viable, or even top tier, pokemon. What can also be the case is a pokemon that is good, however with it's ability becomes so unbelievably good that the entire metagame has to adjust because of that one pokemon. Examples of this are Talonflame, Greninja (pre ban), Aegislash (pre ban), Mega Gardevior, Sylveon, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Tomohawk (CAP), Azumarill, Mega Sableye, etc. Keeping the latter pokemon in mind, not to mention the others I didn't write down, it seems like there is a necessity in the OU and CAP meta's to make pokemon's abilities more of a target in the realm of pokemon battles.

Questions to be Answered:
-How does a pokemon target and alter the ability of the opponent's pokemon in a way that is not too powerful, but still good enough to become useful?- How do we create a pokemon that doesn't abuse one kind of pokemon's abilities over another? For example, how do we make this pokemon a threat to both Talonflame's ability and Mega Sableye's ability?
- How would this CAP fit into the OU metagame and what would it change it?
- Do we want this pokemon to turn this pokemon into a counter to a specific kind of strategy, or should it equally effect all kinds of strategies?
- What type of abilities will become more viable as a result of this pokemon being created?
-How would this help to improve the metagame?
-Will pokemon with good stats but awful abilities (ie. Regigigas, Slaking etc.) become more viable as a result?
-What kind of abilities will be affected the worst by this pokemon?

Explanation: This concept is meant to bring abilities into focus more in the battle. We should be looking for ways to change the way pokemon is played, and there are entire strategies and different playing styles that can be opened up by creating pokemon that alter abilities in different ways than the extremely limited way we currently have available to us. Since I am allowed to be specific in my explanation, I feel like the best way to create this kind of pokemon is to have a prankster user with skill swap or simple beam.

 

[ginganinja]

I feel like the best way to create this kind of pokemon is to have a prankster user with skill swap or simple beam.

You obviously didn't think this through then.

Situation: CAP vs Clefable

Option A: CAP uses Simple Beam, Clefable uses Calm Mind.
Result: Clefable is now +2 +2. In other words, you just fucked up.

Option B: CAP uses Skill Swap, Clefable now has Prankster.
Result: Clefable now has Priority Softboiled/Calm Mind/Thunder Wave. Again, you just fucked up.

The concept is situationally useful against a small pool of pokemon, and worse than useless against the majority, actually HELPING the enemy team sweep your team.

 

[WhiteDMist]

ok, however barring that scenario the concept of an ability altering pokemon is still quite viable. there would just be a different way.

Entrainment, Gastro Acid, Heal Block, Role Play, Simple Beam, Skill Swap, Worry Seed are all the moves that affect abilities. Mold Breaker and its kin are the abilities that ignore opposing abilities, but does not alter so doesn't count for your current concept.

Entrainment is mediocre because it requires you to use a mediocre/bad ability to actually alter the opposing Pokemon's ability. Magic Bounce reflects it btw.
Gastro Acid negates the opponent's ability, but doesn't give them a negative ability either, so it's alright but not great. Magic Bounce reflects it btw.
Heal Block only stops Harvest and weather reliant healing abilities, so is super situational and not even permanent. Magic Bounce reflects it btw.
Role Play doesn't count for this.
Simple Beam backfires on you if it hits a set up Pokemon, and is average otherwise. Magic Bounce reflects it btw.
Skill Swap also requires you to have a mediocre/bad ability to gain the most out of it. Better than Entrainment because you can possibly steal a great ability from the opposing Pokemon, but still situational.
Worry Seed is better than Simple Beam simply because it doesn't backfire as easily. Magic Bounce reflects it btw.

Looking at this small list (let me know if I missed something), all the options are mediocre in effect or highly situational; Skill Swap looks to be the most effective too. The problem I notice is that this concept would require your opponent to make bad decisions and not switch out, which removes the effects of all the above moves instantly (except Heal Block lol). Magic Bounce reflects most of these moves as well, which is an Ability you want to target. IMO, the most biggest effect of such a concept would be to force switches, of which there are far more effective ways to do so.

 

[nyttyn]

hi it's your friendly neighborhood concepts co-leader here, posting to remind you all that all posts grounded in competitive reasoning are required to have at least the slightest idea of what they're talking about. posts that involve shitty gimmicks like lucky chant or anger point tauros will be deleted.

i don't expect you all to have metagame knowledge at a OU council member's level, but there's a very reasonable baseline expectation of knowledge, and if your post includes anything as bad as lucky chant, it is very far below that baseline.

 

[ck620]

Entrainment, Gastro Acid, Heal Block, Role Play, Simple Beam, Skill Swap, Worry Seed are all the moves that affect abilities. Mold Breaker and its kin are the abilities that ignore opposing abilities, but does not alter so doesn't count for your current concept.

You missed one, mummy. Maybe those wont work out quite how you like them, but creating a spD tank (something pretty spD biased, like chansey) that has mummy almost forces a physical attack, which in a way accomplishes what the goal is. Also, the powers that be could create something that would help our lackluster ways of altering abilities (I'm not entirely sure who's in charge of creating new moves in previous CAP's). By naming all the options, by the way, you did an excellent job of revealing exactly why there needs to be a CAP that fixes the problem.

 

[WhiteDMist]

You missed one, mummy. Maybe those wont work out quite how you like them, but creating a spD tank (something pretty spD biased, like chansey) that has mummy almost forces a physical attack, which in a way accomplishes what the goal is. Also, the powers that be could create something that would help our lackluster ways of altering abilities (I'm not entirely sure who's in charge of creating new moves in previous CAP's). By naming all the options, by the way, you did an excellent job of revealing exactly why there needs to be a CAP that fixes the problem.

Mummy is an option, but it's still just useless if there is no contact (not physical, contact moves specifically), and decent at best if there is contact. And what is "a CAP that fixes the problem" supposed to entail? If you are referring to a custom move/ability/the likes of, afaik that's still not allowed. If you are referring to making a Pokemon that is so good to carry the concept, then that runs the risk of losing focus and creating far better options for the CAP to run over the ability changing concept. You still haven't addressed my concern that switching out basically invalidates your entire concept, and the fact that for it to succeed, you kind of rely on the opponent not knowing what they are doing. Please explain how you can catch someone off guard with this concept to make it work when everyone knows what the concept does? It'll help me, and by extension CAP community/mods, understand where you are going with this. This can be done, but it'll be difficult to keep it balanced, focused, and still succeed.