I like the current format but think the whole endeavour takes a lot of time. Ie we tend to be without said gym for 3 months before the qualifier begins, allow 2 or so weeks for it to take place and then another at least 2 weeks for a decision to be reached and an arena approved. I have no concrete suggestions on how to improve this but 4 months from leader leaves to new one starts is a long time
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OPEN DISCUSSION - Gym Concerns and Issues
- Thread starter Texas Cloverleaf
- Start date
While that's true it's not necessarily any slower than the old method (in fact we might beat Flying Quals to the finish if people hurry up a bit). Still that has more to do with how fast/slow the refs/players are.
Or do you mean the "ready" period between Quals being announced and starting is too long?
Or do you mean the "ready" period between Quals being announced and starting is too long?
I'm certainly not saying it's slower than the old method, and this way does not encourage building up gym mons that are really only good against its own type so thats definitely a plus. I'm merely remarking on the annoyance of the whole process taking so long regardless of every intention being the opposite, while at the same time providing zero ideas on how to speed it up.
I guess I'll give my two cents on the matter of new quals format, mostly on the length of the prep time for now but I may ramble about other aspects later.
I personally feel like a full month between pools being posted and the start of the actual thing is a bit much. Sure, it was nice for me because I started out with just Absol and Pancham, but I feel like most people who will sign up for quals (4/5 in this case) will be relatively experienced players who already have built a half-decent team.
Also, in no real situation ever will a GL have four weeks to basically counterteam a challenger, so it may not accurately reflect the applicant's skill. Case in point: the guy who bought all of his mons Aerial Ace/Acrobatics/Bounce even before getting actual useful stuff like Sub only for you to not even bring Heracross smh
Personally, I think people already prepare enough between quals being announced and teams being posted to give an extra month on top of that. That being said, if people would rather give newer players a fair shot at it as well, one month is ok-ish to build up three fresh mons from scratch.
I personally feel like a full month between pools being posted and the start of the actual thing is a bit much. Sure, it was nice for me because I started out with just Absol and Pancham, but I feel like most people who will sign up for quals (4/5 in this case) will be relatively experienced players who already have built a half-decent team.
Also, in no real situation ever will a GL have four weeks to basically counterteam a challenger, so it may not accurately reflect the applicant's skill. Case in point: the guy who bought all of his mons Aerial Ace/Acrobatics/Bounce even before getting actual useful stuff like Sub only for you to not even bring Heracross smh
Personally, I think people already prepare enough between quals being announced and teams being posted to give an extra month on top of that. That being said, if people would rather give newer players a fair shot at it as well, one month is ok-ish to build up three fresh mons from scratch.
Heirlooms have finally been added to the ASB Raid Zone general thread, along with a comprehensive, flavourful, and somewhat cute (we're talking about me, after all) explaination. Bask in their glory, and step up to save your world from the forces of darkness!
Bumping this, as a reminder to everyone that the examiners' pools will be posted August 15th. As we need to decide if a qualifier will be singles or doubles before we post the pool, if nobody has signed up for qualifier by August 15th, that qualifier will be singles. Candidates will be able to sign up after August 15th, but only those that sign up before that date will be able to vote on the format of the qualifier.
That said, this post have a running record of who has signed up for qualifiers. As a reminder, you can sign up for as many qualifiers as you'd like! And please post if you'd prefer singles or doubles for each qualifier you sign up for.
Bug:
- Elevator Music
Fairy:
- Rainman Legends
- Ragnarokalex
Fire:
None
Ice:
- Frosty
Poison:
- acidphoenix
---
I'd like more feedback on what I posted here. I'm currently leaning towards shortening the wait time between posting the examiner pool and actually starting the qualifier. An entire month seems too long, so maybe shortening it to two or three weeks instead. Thoughts?
Finally, if anyone would be willing to be an examiner for one of these upcoming qualifiers, please let the committee know. Holding 5 qualifiers at once would be way too taxing for us to do on our own as the examiners.
That said, this post have a running record of who has signed up for qualifiers. As a reminder, you can sign up for as many qualifiers as you'd like! And please post if you'd prefer singles or doubles for each qualifier you sign up for.
Bug:
- Elevator Music
Fairy:
- Rainman Legends
- Ragnarokalex
Fire:
None
Ice:
- Frosty
Poison:
- acidphoenix
---
I'd like more feedback on what I posted here. I'm currently leaning towards shortening the wait time between posting the examiner pool and actually starting the qualifier. An entire month seems too long, so maybe shortening it to two or three weeks instead. Thoughts?
Finally, if anyone would be willing to be an examiner for one of these upcoming qualifiers, please let the committee know. Holding 5 qualifiers at once would be way too taxing for us to do on our own as the examiners.
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signing up for fairy because i hate myself apparently
EDIT: singles plz
EDIT: singles plz
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Signing up for ice since apparently my name is supposed to make sense.
Also, I am not sure how long pools should be up. If you are posting them so the candidates can counter then you need to give enough time for that (in that case 3 weeks should suffice). If the pool is made by mons thw candidate are supposed to have covered by default then 1-2 weeks is enough for little adjustments. Depends on what you are aiming for.
EDIT: BTW I am a volunteer to help examine people.
EDIT 2: Not willing that much to ref. But can do so if you don't have manpower enough.
Also, I am not sure how long pools should be up. If you are posting them so the candidates can counter then you need to give enough time for that (in that case 3 weeks should suffice). If the pool is made by mons thw candidate are supposed to have covered by default then 1-2 weeks is enough for little adjustments. Depends on what you are aiming for.
EDIT: BTW I am a volunteer to help examine people.
EDIT 2: Not willing that much to ref. But can do so if you don't have manpower enough.
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signing up for Poison
edit: singles please
edit: singles please
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I'm not too sure recent efforts would deem me suitable to examine people but I'm happy to ref multiple qualifiers to move it all along
What he said. I don't know if it would be a great idea for me to ref multiple matches, but still.
signing up for fairy, singles please
So...there are two things I feel I need to point out here. Please bare with me:
1) P2X7 got his position as Flying Gym Leader almost 2 months ago. I don't mean to sound impatient (even though I am), but any ETA on it? I heard some time ago that an arena was submitted, but never heard about it ever again. Are we waiting for something in particular? My problem is less "this is taking too long" and more "this is taking too long for reasons not clear". If we are waiting for something in particular, maybe share? idk
2) This one is more complicated, as I have personal interest in this. But I'll try to be impartial.
I made a list of all challenges picked to be reffed since april, and I got to the following results (refs that were subreffed excluded):
Gale: 3
Frosty: 20
ZhengTann: 1
Avnomke: 3
deadfox081: 5
Black Heart: 1
Mowtom: 3
Elevator Music: 1
tavok: 1
Rainman Legends: 2
Its_A_Random: 1
YellowAdminSilver: 1
Maxim: 2
This post isn't for bragging, but for a more problematic thinge. Since Page 20, there were 44 challenges. Of those, 20 were reffed by me, 5 by people who left, 7 by people facing problems with activity nowadays (tests, semi-active status, were DQ'd on other matches, are about to be DQ'd on matches), which leaves 12 challenges reffed by the regular people. That is about...27% of all challenges. Which means that, right now, our manpower excluding me is 12 matches in 5 months and 14 days, around 2.2 battles per month. Which seems kinda...erm...not enough? idk. I am aware that if I were to do something like this on the Battle Tower I would get also worrisome results, so it may be a ref shortage on ASB as a whole. But I really feel this is at least worth discussing. Even if it is to conclude that there is nothing we can do. I don't intend to leave or anything right now, but depending on one person to make ends meet seems...undesirable.
Just food for thought.
1) P2X7 got his position as Flying Gym Leader almost 2 months ago. I don't mean to sound impatient (even though I am), but any ETA on it? I heard some time ago that an arena was submitted, but never heard about it ever again. Are we waiting for something in particular? My problem is less "this is taking too long" and more "this is taking too long for reasons not clear". If we are waiting for something in particular, maybe share? idk
2) This one is more complicated, as I have personal interest in this. But I'll try to be impartial.
I made a list of all challenges picked to be reffed since april, and I got to the following results (refs that were subreffed excluded):
Gale: 3
Frosty: 20
ZhengTann: 1
Avnomke: 3
deadfox081: 5
Black Heart: 1
Mowtom: 3
Elevator Music: 1
tavok: 1
Rainman Legends: 2
Its_A_Random: 1
YellowAdminSilver: 1
Maxim: 2
This post isn't for bragging, but for a more problematic thinge. Since Page 20, there were 44 challenges. Of those, 20 were reffed by me, 5 by people who left, 7 by people facing problems with activity nowadays (tests, semi-active status, were DQ'd on other matches, are about to be DQ'd on matches), which leaves 12 challenges reffed by the regular people. That is about...27% of all challenges. Which means that, right now, our manpower excluding me is 12 matches in 5 months and 14 days, around 2.2 battles per month. Which seems kinda...erm...not enough? idk. I am aware that if I were to do something like this on the Battle Tower I would get also worrisome results, so it may be a ref shortage on ASB as a whole. But I really feel this is at least worth discussing. Even if it is to conclude that there is nothing we can do. I don't intend to leave or anything right now, but depending on one person to make ends meet seems...undesirable.
Just food for thought.
Flying Arena has been approved (It did get lost in the shuffle), we're literally waiting on one last minor codification (Who designed ASB Morning Sun / Moonlight anyway ¬¬), but once I get a reply on that we'll be opening.
Refwise it's mainly an issue of manpower, and man-time. Not sure what we can actually do about it though =\
Refwise it's mainly an issue of manpower, and man-time. Not sure what we can actually do about it though =\
Stuff:
1) We are removing akela from Rock Leadership. We'd like to thank akela for what he has done for us and we understand his less-than-ideal work status, but he hasn't be on for 2 months, so this conclusion is rather unavoidable.
2) Qualifiers for Fairy and Poison Gyms will be held December 5th. Pools were already posted. You have until then to train your mons.
3) We will post Examiner Pools as well as the date of the Qualifiers for Rock and Bug types also in December 5th. Actual qualifiers will be held somewhere on january, so stay tuned, get ready etc.
4) WRT to past leaders: we have decided to use 10 battles as a benchmark. Barring an exception, if the leader has 10 or more battles, they will retain their badge if they are removed or step down from leadership, even if said leader tries out for another gym. The data for leaders that retained their badges will be kept on the OPs on the "Past Leaders" hide tag for history and all. The data for the leaders that were removed/stepped down before that and didn't retain their badges will be deleted.
That should be all.
1) We are removing akela from Rock Leadership. We'd like to thank akela for what he has done for us and we understand his less-than-ideal work status, but he hasn't be on for 2 months, so this conclusion is rather unavoidable.
2) Qualifiers for Fairy and Poison Gyms will be held December 5th. Pools were already posted. You have until then to train your mons.
3) We will post Examiner Pools as well as the date of the Qualifiers for Rock and Bug types also in December 5th. Actual qualifiers will be held somewhere on january, so stay tuned, get ready etc.
4) WRT to past leaders: we have decided to use 10 battles as a benchmark. Barring an exception, if the leader has 10 or more battles, they will retain their badge if they are removed or step down from leadership, even if said leader tries out for another gym. The data for leaders that retained their badges will be kept on the OPs on the "Past Leaders" hide tag for history and all. The data for the leaders that were removed/stepped down before that and didn't retain their badges will be deleted.
That should be all.
Geodude6
Look at my shiny CT!
Can someone add jas to past flying leader?
Leader: jas61292
W/L/T: 4/6/0 (40%)
Current Battles: N/A
W/L/T: 4/6/0 (40%)
Current Battles: N/A
A few miles off the coast of land a large pillar sticks out of the ocean. It reaches up into the clouds, the top blocked from view when the sky is not clear. Atop the pillar lies a square battlefield, traditional in almost every sense. However, a few important differences set this place apart from your standard Pokemon arena.
First of all, the pillar itself is hollow and filled with water, that creates a pool at the fields center, giving combatants a water source other than the sea miles below. Secondly, the field itself is exceptionally thin, and as such all Pokemon who attempt to bury through it will plummet to their demise if they cannot keep themselves aloft. Finally, at each corner of the field are pillars with what appear to be nest-like structures at the top. These features allow sky based Pokemon to rest their wings more easily.
But what is even more important than the physical features of the arena are the natural effects of the location. Due to its location above the tropical seas and the directness of the sun's rays, hail turns to rain before it ever reaches the ground. Additionally, a lack of sand makes summoning a sandstorm impossible.
However, the most prominent feature of the gym is the wind. At this high altitude, strong winds are nearly a constant. The prevailing air currents bring big gusts in from the west on a regular basis, from right behind where the gym leader stands. This provides a constant effect similar to a Tailwind at one third of normal strength for the gym leader's Pokemon. In addition, the strong winds also amplify moves that use their effects, boosting their power and their accuracy as.
Summary:
First of all, the pillar itself is hollow and filled with water, that creates a pool at the fields center, giving combatants a water source other than the sea miles below. Secondly, the field itself is exceptionally thin, and as such all Pokemon who attempt to bury through it will plummet to their demise if they cannot keep themselves aloft. Finally, at each corner of the field are pillars with what appear to be nest-like structures at the top. These features allow sky based Pokemon to rest their wings more easily.
But what is even more important than the physical features of the arena are the natural effects of the location. Due to its location above the tropical seas and the directness of the sun's rays, hail turns to rain before it ever reaches the ground. Additionally, a lack of sand makes summoning a sandstorm impossible.
However, the most prominent feature of the gym is the wind. At this high altitude, strong winds are nearly a constant. The prevailing air currents bring big gusts in from the west on a regular basis, from right behind where the gym leader stands. This provides a constant effect similar to a Tailwind at one third of normal strength for the gym leader's Pokemon. In addition, the strong winds also amplify moves that use their effects, boosting their power and their accuracy as.
Summary:
- No Sandstorm or Hail
- The thin battle platform prevents Dig.
- Well technically using Dig will just cause the digging Pokemon to plummet thousands of feet into the water below, putting them out of bounds and knocking them out of the battle.
- Flying and Levitating Pokemon who won't fall can still use Dig, but it won't actually do anything.
- Seriously though, this is the flying gym. Why would you be using Dig anyways?
- All other attacks are allowed.
- Energy Cost of Roost reduced by 1.
- Permanent Tailwind-like effect on Gym Leaders side (provides 1.33x speed boost)
- Wind Based attacks have their base accuracy increased by 10% up to a maximum of 100%
- Wind Based attacks have base power increased by 2
- Wind based moves include the following: Hurricane, Razor Wind, Gust, Twister, Air Slash, Ominous Wind, Silver Wind, Heat Wave, Icy Wind (There may be others that I am forgetting)
- Changes to the accuracy of attacks due to the wind are factored in before any other effects, such as stage boosts to accuracy or evasion.
- All effects, including the power boost to wind moves and the Tailwind effect, are arena effects, not weather effects, and thus can not be negated by Cloud Nine, Air Lock or other such effects.
vs. dogfish44 (Loss)
vs. SubwayJ (Loss)
vs. Maxim (Win)
vs. waterwarrior (Win)
vs. Athenodoros (Loss)
vs. Texas Cloverleaf (Loss)
vs. Elevator Music (Loss)
vs. Glacier Knight (Win)
vs. Son_of_Shadoo (Win)
vs. Matezoide (Loss)
vs. SubwayJ (Loss)
vs. Maxim (Win)
vs. waterwarrior (Win)
vs. Athenodoros (Loss)
vs. Texas Cloverleaf (Loss)
vs. Elevator Music (Loss)
vs. Glacier Knight (Win)
vs. Son_of_Shadoo (Win)
vs. Matezoide (Loss)
Geodude6
Look at my shiny CT!
Can we get an activity check on P2X7? He has not been on since the 8th/9th of November (depending on your time zone), last posted on that same day in a doubles match with ED (that he miraculously has not been DQed from), has not made a post related to his flying gym since the 29th/30th of October when he accepted my and Frosty's challenges to him, and still hasn't sent in mons for said matches. I seriously hope that he's OK but this is becoming concerning.
Agreeing with the above as I am one of the refs waiting on his mons
I am alive and well, but have been too busy to be able to post here. However, my schedule appears to have begun to clear up enough for my activity to rise up to a normal level again, so this hopefully will not be an issue for the near future.
Okay found the right thread to necro I would like to give feedback that the current two qualifiers results - namely, Poison and Fairy. For those who were new, or back after hiatus, or haven't really paid attention to it, those were the first two times that candidates are denied the spot of a Gym Leader based on the following reasons:
sell commit spend "place non-slavery verb here" at least the next 3 years of their life into playing ASB. Which is why I thought I'd never run for GL :/
However, to me, the overriding criteria for being a GL is not the ones in the bullet points above, but in punctuality. Personally I don't mind if lose any Gym Leader spot to any other rivaling candidate due to my sloppy play or my lack of punctuality in quals. But to have tried my best to train a team of monotype FEs in the short timeframe, played my best, coming out on top and in time, and still losing the spot because Gym Comm decided "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED", only to repeat the "play my best" part again in the near future - just sounds counter-intuitive.
Not to mention Gym Comm will have to spend the brainpower and time re-evaluating again. Why should we ensure that GLs have to have top-tier battling skills instead of less-than-top-tier with a commitment anyway? Maybe we could just go harsher on the DQ to enforce punctuality, and then just pick the better player as the GL, as we did in the past quals?
Disclaimer: Yes of course I know this seems biased coming at this time, given that I am running for Rock. Just thought that with Grass and Flying in the next round, they could do with this.
- Having a Gym team that lacks diversity,
- Lacking top-tier skills.
However, to me, the overriding criteria for being a GL is not the ones in the bullet points above, but in punctuality. Personally I don't mind if lose any Gym Leader spot to any other rivaling candidate due to my sloppy play or my lack of punctuality in quals. But to have tried my best to train a team of monotype FEs in the short timeframe, played my best, coming out on top and in time, and still losing the spot because Gym Comm decided "YOU ARE NOT PREPARED", only to repeat the "play my best" part again in the near future - just sounds counter-intuitive.
Not to mention Gym Comm will have to spend the brainpower and time re-evaluating again. Why should we ensure that GLs have to have top-tier battling skills instead of less-than-top-tier with a commitment anyway? Maybe we could just go harsher on the DQ to enforce punctuality, and then just pick the better player as the GL, as we did in the past quals?
Disclaimer: Yes of course I know this seems biased coming at this time, given that I am running for Rock. Just thought that with Grass and Flying in the next round, they could do with this.
I really don't understand your post. "Coming out on top" well clearly not, they didn't beat the examiner. "Having a team that lacks diversity" that's never been cited as a reason, we've certainly cited a team missing critical moves or not being built enough, or not containing niche mins that are necessary to handle a significant threat.
As for top tier skills, it's our job to ensure that the gym leader can provide a consistent challenge and not make obvious mistakes on a consistent basis. We really aren't asking for Emma/Frosty level here. For example we were very close to accepting Lucy, and considering how long she's been in Asb would you consider her "top tier" as you are implying? Hell she was rejected for play reasons that are primarily rooted in lack of experience.
Essentially we're asking you to be around Maxim level competence to hold a gym. Would you suggest that's too much to ask?
So yeah what I'm reading from your post is "lower your standards for gym leaders in favour of highly active ones, even if they are incapable of defending their badge."
That's not something I personally support, activity is a concern for sure but at the end of the day gyms are and end state prestige challenge and should be representative of that.
Unless we decide to change the focus entirely and allow 4/5 to be the "default" badge state rather than 0/1 by allowing weaker, active leaders
As for top tier skills, it's our job to ensure that the gym leader can provide a consistent challenge and not make obvious mistakes on a consistent basis. We really aren't asking for Emma/Frosty level here. For example we were very close to accepting Lucy, and considering how long she's been in Asb would you consider her "top tier" as you are implying? Hell she was rejected for play reasons that are primarily rooted in lack of experience.
Essentially we're asking you to be around Maxim level competence to hold a gym. Would you suggest that's too much to ask?
So yeah what I'm reading from your post is "lower your standards for gym leaders in favour of highly active ones, even if they are incapable of defending their badge."
That's not something I personally support, activity is a concern for sure but at the end of the day gyms are and end state prestige challenge and should be representative of that.
Unless we decide to change the focus entirely and allow 4/5 to be the "default" badge state rather than 0/1 by allowing weaker, active leaders
I will be blunt here. The reason why I denied the fairy gym candidates is because I felt they weren't, as you said, "competent". And I don't mean "top-tier skills". I mean decent, average, can pose a challenge to some players, etc. Based solely on what they displayed, my conclusion was that most challengers would defeat them and a big number would do so with little to no problems.
I don't mind if my gym leaders are easily defeated by top-tier players. That is not my personal parameter. But I expect the leader to know what they are doing, not make too many mistakes and be able to hold his own. Know the basics of the format they are using and the typing they are defending. I didn't get that from the candidates I denied. That is the entire point of this. I personally don't intend to promote to gym leader the first guy who comes around alive and with a gazillion UC spent on mons (and little time on themself). Heck, if someone came with only 3 mons to face the 3 mons from the examiner pool, and played in a stable, decent manner, then I would be more than glad to give them the opportunity.
Texas said it all and I quote: "It's our job to ensure that the gym leader can provide a consistent challenge and not make obvious mistakes on a consistent basis"
We are going for someone who can provide a consistent challenge. Who won't break in two so easily. Even if they lose more than win, that is not the big deal. But I at least want someone that will cause the challenger to get worried, plan their actions, build a good team and order seriously on the matches. If in the end the challenger did so and won using half his mons, then great. But at least the challenge was good to the point of worrying the challenger, which is the entire point of it. This is one step further from most RPs (thinking hall, bronze pike on a somewhat-lucky run, most sims) where you slap together a team of three mons on 5 minutes, order half-decently and still can win.
Also for the record, I personally doubt somewhat that any of the other qualifiers in the future (the ones already scheduled) will get the same results as those two. Including Fairy 3.0 (first was with ralex -_-) and Poison 2.0. I do know for a fact that on Bug we will finish the qualfiiers with a leader for sure, simply because of how well they played matchups so far (unless they choke on such a scale that I can't even put into words). The others have more experienced players that proved before that they are capable of playing well. The problem with Poison and Fairy is that only very new people signed up for them. People that at the time the qualifier started had little experience. The same people today (what, 3 months later?) would probably do much better at this, possibly even getting the spot.
I don't mind if my gym leaders are easily defeated by top-tier players. That is not my personal parameter. But I expect the leader to know what they are doing, not make too many mistakes and be able to hold his own. Know the basics of the format they are using and the typing they are defending. I didn't get that from the candidates I denied. That is the entire point of this. I personally don't intend to promote to gym leader the first guy who comes around alive and with a gazillion UC spent on mons (and little time on themself). Heck, if someone came with only 3 mons to face the 3 mons from the examiner pool, and played in a stable, decent manner, then I would be more than glad to give them the opportunity.
Texas said it all and I quote: "It's our job to ensure that the gym leader can provide a consistent challenge and not make obvious mistakes on a consistent basis"
We are going for someone who can provide a consistent challenge. Who won't break in two so easily. Even if they lose more than win, that is not the big deal. But I at least want someone that will cause the challenger to get worried, plan their actions, build a good team and order seriously on the matches. If in the end the challenger did so and won using half his mons, then great. But at least the challenge was good to the point of worrying the challenger, which is the entire point of it. This is one step further from most RPs (thinking hall, bronze pike on a somewhat-lucky run, most sims) where you slap together a team of three mons on 5 minutes, order half-decently and still can win.
Also for the record, I personally doubt somewhat that any of the other qualifiers in the future (the ones already scheduled) will get the same results as those two. Including Fairy 3.0 (first was with ralex -_-) and Poison 2.0. I do know for a fact that on Bug we will finish the qualfiiers with a leader for sure, simply because of how well they played matchups so far (unless they choke on such a scale that I can't even put into words). The others have more experienced players that proved before that they are capable of playing well. The problem with Poison and Fairy is that only very new people signed up for them. People that at the time the qualifier started had little experience. The same people today (what, 3 months later?) would probably do much better at this, possibly even getting the spot.