Mantine [QC: 0/3]

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feen

control
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[OVERVIEW]

  • With a unique typing and great Special bulk, Mantine is one of the reliable walls in the tier.
  • Mantine has access to Water Absorb, which makes it able to check Water-type sweepers such as Poliwrath, Ludicolo, Gorebyss, and Samurott.
  • Mantine also has acess to Scald and Air Slash, making it beat common Scald switch-ins.
  • However, Mantine has no reliable recovery, wearing it down over the course of the game.
  • Mantine also faces competition from Lanturn which has access to Volt Switch, Pelipper which has reliable recovery in Roost, and Prinplup which has more overall bulk than Mantine.
[SET]
name: Defensive Defog
move 1: Defog
move 2: Scald
move 3: Air Slash / Protect
move 4: Toxic / Haze
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Defog clears the entry hazards that Mantine's team won't appreciate.
  • Scald is the main move that Mantine will use to hit the Pokemon it will commonly be switching into, such as Claydol, and various Fighting- and Fire-types.
  • Air Slash is a secondary STAB move that provides coverage against Pokemon that resist or are immune to Scald, such as Vileplume, Tangela, and Poliwrath, or have already been inflicted with a status condition.
  • Protect can be used for scouting purposes, such as gathering extra Leftovers recovery; which Mantine so desperately depends on, and racking up more Toxic damage.
  • Toxic is Mantine's main way of pressuring other bulky Water-types to prevent them from beating Mantine and is overall a great utility move to have.
  • Haze also functions as a great tool against Swords Dance Samurott and Calm Mind users, such as Mega Audino, SubCM Uxie, and Musharna, as it lets Mantine stop set up sweepers while taking little damage from any coverage options.
Set Details
========

  • 248 HP EVs give Mantine an odd HP number, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock one more time than it could with an even number. 16 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Adamant Rhydon. The rest of the EVs are placed into Defense in order to take hits better from the likes of Sawk and Hariyama, while also giving excellent all-around bulk.
  • Water Absorb is preferred on any defensive set for its added immunity and pseudo-recovery.

Usage Tips
========

  • Bring in Mantine against Pokemon that it forces out, such as Ludicolo, Pyroar, and Combusken, and attempt to Toxic or Scald the incoming Pokemon.
  • Use Air Slash when you see a Grass-type Pokemon in your opponent's team, as they will most likely be switching into that.
  • Do not let Mantine stay in on Pokemon that can use its coverage move to KO it, such as Thunderbolt Magmortar.
  • Be cautious when switching in Mantine, because it has no immediate recovery options.
  • Taking a Toxic, burn, or even a strong neutral hit shortens Mantine's lifespan, and could mean that it doesn't get to remove hazards at critical points in the game.
  • Keep Knock Off users in mind, as Mantine's recovery is entirely dependent on Leftovers.
  • Be mindful of certain coverage moves on Pokemon that could beat Mantine or knock 50% or more off of Mantine's HP.
  • If you're using Mantine as a switch-in for Fire-type spam, keep pressure on your opponent's Stealth Rock user so you don't have to Defog as much.

Team Options
========

  • Most Grass-types are great partners for Mantine, as they appreciate Mantine's ability to cover threatening Fire-types. Lilligant is a great offensive option, as it often struggles to pressure Fire-types once Sleep Clause has been activated, and Tangela can be a great defensive option, as it is slower than most Fire-types in the tier and will almost always be KOed in a 1v1 matchup.
  • Ground-types such as Rhydon are great options to deal with Electric-types spamming Volt Switch or Thunderbolt. Similarly, these Ground-types are great in helping against fast, offensive Rock-types such as Archeops and Rhydon.
  • Any Pokemon that appreciates entry hazards being removed from the field, such as Focus Sash users, Fire-types, and Flying-types, generally partner up well with Mantine. Fletchinder and Scyther are great teammates as they love having entry hazards removed. Sawk appreciates the entry hazard removal to keep Sturdy in tact.
  • Audino can make a great teammate, supporting Mantine with Wish and Heal Bell, helping to mitigate Mantine's lack of recovery.
  • Seeing as many of Mantine's best partners are passive, defensive Pokemon, Mantine finds its place on stall or balance teams, fitting neatly into defensive cores in need of a reliable switch-in to Fire-types. However, Mantine should not be running Defog on a stall team, as these kinds of team prefer to deal passive damage with entry hazards.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • Choice Specs can be used for immediate wall breaking power, as Mantine's impressive natural bulk and great neutral coverage make it difficult for defensively based teams to switch into or KO Mantine.
  • A Rain Dance set with Swift Swim can be used to turn Mantine into a mid- or late-game sweeper. While it faces competition from Ludicolo, Mantine is definitely worth considering due to its Flying typing. This set is more useful on dedicated Rain teams.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Lanturn is a great switch-in to Mantine, as it resists Mantine's STAB options and has Heal Bell to alleviate statuses. Most other Electric-types can typically brave most of Mantine's moves and threaten it with immediate KO potential. Pokemon with Electric-type coverage options, such as Magmortar, Golurk, and Mesprit, will heavily pressure Mantine.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers such as Scyther, Kabutops, and Samurott can be threatening to Mantine if it lacks Haze. Malamar can wear Mantine down with Superpower and gain Evasion boost by switching into Mantine's Defog.

**Residual Damage**: Mantine's lack of recovery makes it incredibly susceptible to most forms of passive damage. Stealth Rock severely cuts into its longevity and ability to remove hazards. Toxic users such as Prinplup threaten it, and even burns from Pokemon such as Weezing and other Pokemon can annoy Mantine in the long run.

**Powerful Physical Attackers**: Powerful offensive Rock-types such as Archeops, Carracosta, and Rhydon can heavily dent, if not outright KO Mantine with their Rock-type STAB options. Physical attackers that are unaffected by Scald burns, such as Zangoose, Ursaring, and Swellow, are also great threats.

**Freeze Dry**: Freeze-Dry hits Mantine 4x super effectively, so Pokemon that carry it, such as Cryogonal, Articuno, and Aurorus, will heavily pressure Mantine.
 
Last edited:
I'm not QC or anything, but here are some little things:

Overview: as well as Lanturn and Prinplup, you can mention Pelipper as competition due to access to Roost and U-turn.

Set Comments (Moves): Does Haze actually allow Mantine to beat any of these threats 1v1, except Samurott which just gets Toxic'ed anyway?
Explain that Haze works better alongside Air Slash (as Toxic has a similar effect to Haze of preventing set-up mons sweeping your team); while Protect obviously works better with Toxic.

Set Details: If you dump those 16 SpD EVs into Def instead, you can guarantee avoiding a 2HKO from 0 Atk Garbodor' Gunk Shot after SR. Just something to think about (as a Defog user, being able to switch into the tier's best Spiker is pretty useful!)
What does the alternate EV spread you list achieve precisely? I can't find a particular benchmark that it hits.

Usage tips: Er... this seems to be a list of scenarios where you should not use Mantine. You should have some stuff like, "bring in Mantine against Pokemon that it forces out, such as Ludicolo or Combusken". You should also note when to use (or not use) various moves. Also list common coverage moves that can trouble Mantine (Tbolt on Magmortar for example).

Strategy comments: I feel like Swift Swim Mantine works better on dedicated rain teams than as a standalone sweeper with Rain Dance, so maybe mention that instead?

Team Options: List the specific Pokemon that benefit most from entry hazard removal (Scyther, Fletchinder, Sturdy Sawk etc).
Also Rhydon is a good answer to Barbaracle? That's news to me...
Note that Defog is not always super-useful on stall as stall teams generally rely on entry hazards to do damage, which Defog gets rid of - spinners and/or Xatu are often preferable means of hazard control.

C&C: Wild Charge is not really common on Klang at the moment (or that good to be honest, because not having Return makes Lanturn laugh at you), not sure it's a great example. Better might be Thunder Punch Golurk maybe? Can't think of too many physical attackers with Electric-type coverage.
Maybe set-up sweepers should be another bullet point as, especially if Mantine lacks Haze, it is often set-up bait. Malamar deserves a special mention for not only setting up all over Mantine, even wearing it down with repeated Superpowers if it is running Haze, but grabbing a cheeky Evasion boost should it be wily enough to switch into Defog.
 

feen

control
is a Top Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I'm not QC or anything, but here are some little things:

Overview: as well as Lanturn and Prinplup, you can mention Pelipper as competition due to access to Roost and U-turn.

Set Comments (Moves): Does Haze actually allow Mantine to beat any of these threats 1v1, except Samurott which just gets Toxic'ed anyway?
Explain that Haze works better alongside Air Slash (as Toxic has a similar effect to Haze of preventing set-up mons sweeping your team); while Protect obviously works better with Toxic.

Set Details: If you dump those 16 SpD EVs into Def instead, you can guarantee avoiding a 2HKO from 0 Atk Garbodor' Gunk Shot after SR. Just something to think about (as a Defog user, being able to switch into the tier's best Spiker is pretty useful!)
What does the alternate EV spread you list achieve precisely? I can't find a particular benchmark that it hits.

Usage tips: Er... this seems to be a list of scenarios where you should not use Mantine. You should have some stuff like, "bring in Mantine against Pokemon that it forces out, such as Ludicolo or Combusken". You should also note when to use (or not use) various moves. Also list common coverage moves that can trouble Mantine (Tbolt on Magmortar for example).

Strategy comments: I feel like Swift Swim Mantine works better on dedicated rain teams than as a standalone sweeper with Rain Dance, so maybe mention that instead?

Team Options: List the specific Pokemon that benefit most from entry hazard removal (Scyther, Fletchinder, Sturdy Sawk etc).
Also Rhydon is a good answer to Barbaracle? That's news to me...
Note that Defog is not always super-useful on stall as stall teams generally rely on entry hazards to do damage, which Defog gets rid of - spinners and/or Xatu are often preferable means of hazard control.

C&C: Wild Charge is not really common on Klang at the moment (or that good to be honest, because not having Return makes Lanturn laugh at you), not sure it's a great example. Better might be Thunder Punch Golurk maybe? Can't think of too many physical attackers with Electric-type coverage.
Maybe set-up sweepers should be another bullet point as, especially if Mantine lacks Haze, it is often set-up bait. Malamar deserves a special mention for not only setting up all over Mantine, even wearing it down with repeated Superpowers if it is running Haze, but grabbing a cheeky Evasion boost should it be wily enough to switch into Defog.
Thanks man. Implemented
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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comments in bold
[OVERVIEW]

  • With a unique typing and great Special bulk, Mantine is one of the reliable walls in the tier. use an adjective other than unique here, mantine shares its type with pelipper and swanna
  • Mantine has access to Water Absorb, which makes it able to check Water-type sweepers such as Poliwrath, Ludicolo, Gorebyss, and Samurott.
  • Mantine also has acess to Scald and Air Slash, making it beat common Scald switch-ins.
  • However, Mantine has no reliable recovery, wearing it down over the course of the game.
  • Mantine also faces competition from Lanturn which has access to Volt Switch, Pelipper which has reliable recovery in Roost, and Prinplup which has more overall bulk than Mantine. i think swanna deserves a mention here as an offensive defogger, i'd also change this sentence to say that it faces competition as a wall from lanturn and as a defogger from pelipper, prinp, swanna. just to make that clear
[SET]
name: Defensive Defog
move 1: Defog
move 2: Scald
move 3: Air Slash / Protect
move 4: Toxic / Haze i personally don't think haze is worthy of a main slash on mantine, as you're almost always taking a boosted hit before you're resetting stats to neutral. moves mention is fine but remove slash.
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe Can you explain this EV spread to me? I understand the speed creep, but why a calm nature? I realize it was the old on-site spread, but that was for the typhlosion metagame and i still didn't think it did anything specific back then. if theres nothing calm accomplishes, change it to bold

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Defog clears the entry hazards that Mantine's team won't appreciate.
  • Scald is the main move that Mantine will use to hit the Pokemon it will commonly be switching into, such as Claydol, and various Fighting- and Fire-types.
  • Air Slash is a secondary STAB move that provides coverage against Pokemon that resist or are immune to Scald, such as Vileplume, Tangela, and Poliwrath, or have already been inflicted with a status condition.
  • Protect can be used for scouting purposes, such as gathering extra Leftovers recovery; which Mantine so desperately depends on, and racking up more Toxic damage.
  • Toxic is Mantine's main way of pressuring other bulky Water-types to prevent them from beating Mantine and is overall a great utility move to have.
  • Haze also functions as a great tool against Swords Dance Samurott and Calm Mind users, such as Mega Audino, SubCM Uxie, and Musharna, as it lets Mantine stop set up sweepers while taking little damage from any coverage options.
  • i'd honestly like RestTalk to get a moves mention here, but i'll let other QC weigh in.
Set Details
========

  • 248 HP EVs give Mantine an odd HP number, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock one more time than it could with an even number. 16 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Adamant Rhydon. The rest of the EVs are placed into Defense in order to take hits better from the likes of Sawk and Hariyama, while also giving excellent all-around bulk. if you keep the calm nature, mention what it does here
  • Water Absorb is preferred on any defensive set for its added immunity and pseudo-recovery.

Usage Tips
========

  • Bring in Mantine against Pokemon that it forces out, such as Ludicolo, Pyroar, and Combusken, and attempt to Toxic or Scald the incoming Pokemon.
  • Use Air Slash when you see a Grass-type Pokemon in your opponent's team, as they will most likely be switching into that.
  • Do not let Mantine stay in on Pokemon that can use its coverage move to KO it, such as Thunderbolt Magmortar.
  • Be cautious when switching in Mantine, because it has no immediate recovery options.
  • Taking a Toxic, burn, or even a strong neutral hit shortens Mantine's lifespan, and could mean that it doesn't get to remove hazards at critical points in the game.
  • Keep Knock Off users in mind, as Mantine's recovery is entirely dependent on Leftovers.
  • Be mindful of certain coverage moves on Pokemon that could beat Mantine or knock 50% or more off of Mantine's HP.
  • If you're using Mantine as a switch-in for Fire-type spam, keep pressure on your opponent's Stealth Rock user so you don't have to Defog as much. don't use the term "fire spam" that playstyle doesnt exist anymore and quite frankly the term was misused when it did.

Team Options
========

  • Most Grass-types are great partners for Mantine, as they appreciate Mantine's ability to cover threatening Fire-types. Lilligant is a great offensive option, as it often struggles to pressure Fire-types once Sleep Clause has been activated, and Tangela can be a great defensive option, as it is slower than most Fire-types in the tier and will almost always be KOed in a 1v1 matchup.
  • Ground-types such as Rhydon are great options to deal with Electric-types spamming Volt Switch or Thunderbolt. Similarly, these Ground-types are great in helping against fast, offensive Rock-types such as Archeops and Rhydon.
  • Any Pokemon that appreciates entry hazards being removed from the field, such as Focus Sash users, Fire-types, and Flying-types, generally partner up well with Mantine. Fletchinder and Scyther are great teammates as they love having entry hazards removed. Sawk appreciates the entry hazard removal to keep Sturdy in tact.
  • Audino can make a great teammate, supporting Mantine with Wish and Heal Bell, helping to mitigate Mantine's lack of recovery.
  • Seeing as many of Mantine's best partners are passive, defensive Pokemon, Mantine finds its place on stall or balance teams, fitting neatly into defensive cores in need of a reliable switch-in to Fire-types. However, Mantine should not be running Defog on a stall team, as these kinds of team prefer to deal passive damage with entry hazards.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • Choice Specs can be used for immediate wall breaking power, as Mantine's impressive natural bulk and great neutral coverage make it difficult for defensively based teams to switch into or KO Mantine.
  • A Rain Dance set with Swift Swim can be used to turn Mantine into a mid- or late-game sweeper. While it faces competition from Ludicolo, Mantine is definitely worth considering due to its Flying typing. This set is more useful on dedicated Rain teams.
  • rain dance before choice specs, minor change

Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-types**: Lanturn is a great switch-in to Mantine, as it resists Mantine's STAB options and has Heal Bell to alleviate statuses. Most other Electric-types can typically brave most of Mantine's moves and threaten it with immediate KO potential. Pokemon with Electric-type coverage options, such as Magmortar, Golurk, and Mesprit, will heavily pressure Mantine.

**Setup Sweepers**: Setup sweepers such as Scyther, Kabutops, and Samurott can be threatening to Mantine if it lacks Haze. Malamar can wear Mantine down with Superpower and gain Evasion boost by switching into Mantine's Defog. even if it has haze it can be threatening, mention that you either are at a stalemate or force yourself to take a hit before getting the opponent back to neutral stat boosts

**Residual Damage**: Mantine's lack of recovery makes it incredibly susceptible to most forms of passive damage. Stealth Rock severely cuts into its longevity and ability to remove hazards. Toxic users such as Prinplup threaten it, and even burns from Pokemon such as Weezing and other Pokemon can annoy Mantine in the long run. mention toxic can be remedied by resttalk

**Powerful Physical Attackers**: Powerful offensive Rock-types such as Archeops, Carracosta, and Rhydon can heavily dent, if not outright KO Mantine with their Rock-type STAB options. Physical attackers that are unaffected by Scald burns, such as Zangoose, Ursaring, and Swellow, are also great threats.

**Freeze Dry**: Freeze-Dry hits Mantine 4x super effectively, so Pokemon that carry it, such as Cryogonal, Articuno, and Aurorus, will heavily pressure Mantine.

i'd like bulky waters to get a mention here, as mantines best way to deal with them is toxic, and they typically toxic you right back.
make these changes and then tag me, i asked for qc input on a few things so unless you agree with tehm leave them as is until otherwise stated.
 
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