Pikachu Cup [Online Competition]

Are there any bulky speed control users? The only ones I can find are Icy Wind Lanturn and Cotton Spore (Mega) Ampharos.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Are there any bulky speed control users? The only ones I can find are Icy Wind Lanturn and Cotton Spore (Mega) Ampharos.
Almost everything learns Electroweb, but you risk setting off abilities with it. Galvantula learns Sticky Web as well.

Nothing learns Trick Room and obviously nothing can be paralysed, so there isn't a whole lot of speed control here. Tailwind emolga is a thing but it isn't very bulky.
 
So if there is anything I've notice watching like 2 games on the ladder is that a fast Taunter would rip apart these teams so looking over what gets Taunt I thought of this:
Electrode @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Aftermath
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Light Screen/Magnet Rise
- Swagger/Protect
- Foul Play

Shuts down Scarf Soak Lanturn because it outspeeds and all the Emolga and other support mons. Again I thought of this pretty quick but any thoughts?
 
Quick question:
Does soak effect a pokemon with water absorb (Lanturn)?
No, it would heal it; this is why Lanturn needs HP Grass to take out Seismitoad.
Some notes:
  • Emolga is the only tailwind setter
  • No electric types learn trick room
  • Magnezone and magneton are the only gravity setters
  • Pachirisu is the only redirector
  • Electivire and Stunfisk are the only pokemon that get ground-type attacks worth using that isn't hidden power
  • Soak lanturn might be very useful
  • Ampharos and manectric are the only mega evolutions, though I don't see manectric doing much in this
  • Remember cosplay pikachu is a thing
  • The only useful cosplay Pikachu I can see is Pikachu-Pop-Star which gets Draining Kiss as an alternative to Wish recovery. Other Wish users are Jolteon, Minun, Plusle and Raichu; Emolga gets Roost which is a double-edged sword of course. Dedenne and Heliolisk get Parabolic Charge, which hits your ally as well as your opponents, but also recovers health if it does damage.
  • Since this is doubles, if you have two of (non-Mega) Ampharos, Dedenne, Manectric, Minun and Plusle on your side of the field, you get a 50% bonus to SpA, and if Ampharos then uses Magnetic Flux then both would get the Def and SpD boost.
  • Although Magnezone and Magneton can set Gravity, they are 4x weak to Ground moves, so it's basically suicide.
  • Galvantula can set Sticky Web and is also neutral to Ground moves. Rotom-Mow is also neutral to Mega Ampharos's HP Ground.
  • Stunfisk can set Stealth Rock, but there are no spinners or (Toxic) Spikes setters. Stunfisk can also set Sand, which Heliolisk could benefit from.
  • Shuca berries might be popular, but Magnezone and Magneton would still be 2x weak to Ground moves. On the other hand Dedenne could Recycle them and get some healing too.
  • Electric types tend to have Fire or Ice coverage, which is resisted by Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Wash and Lanturn.
  • Rotom and Electrode are immune to Heliolisk's Hyper Voice.
  • Only Emolga, Lanturn and Rotom don't get Magnet Rise, although Jolteon, Minun or Plusle could Baton Pass it to them.
  • All Electric types get Toxic, and Rotom also gets Will-O-Wisp, but Lanturn gets Heal Bell.
  • Although Emolga and Rotom-Fan are immune to Mega Ampharos's HP Ground, only Galvantula and Rotom-Mow don't resist their second STAB.
  • Except when attacked by Ampharos-Mega, Rotom-Fan and Rotom-Wash are the only Electric types that don't resist Electric attacks. Ampharos-Mega can also attack Emolga and Lanturn.
  • Discharge isn't redirected by Lightning Rod, but it hits your ally too.
 

Theorymon

Have a wonderful day, wahoo!
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So, me and user Awu did a best out of 5 for this metagame! Excuse Awu's 4 mon team for the first 3 battles, she was no slouch regardless :P

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pikachucup-255126393
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pikachucup-255128216
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pikachucup-255129535
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pikachucup-255131819
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pikachucup-255133038

Also, here is the paste of the team I quickly made ( Awu , feel free to paste yours lol)

Rotom-A (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Poison]
- Will-O-Wisp

ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE! (Electivire) @ Life Orb
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Protect

Wes (Electabuzz) @ Eviolite
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Electroweb
- Magnet Rise

NO WEAK (Eelektross) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Acid Spray
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Super Fang
- Dragon Tail

Remember Me? (Heliolisk) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Eerie Impulse
- Electrify
- Protect

TRICKROOM'S REVENGE! (Stunfisk) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Here are some quick comments from me.

-HOLY SHIT, Heilolisk is EXTREMELY powerful under the sun! I was thinking more about Electrify, but wow Hypervoice hurts like hell!

-Acid Spray seems like a really cool team move, as does Eerie Impulse. Totally want to explore these some more!

-I like the idea of Electebuzz, but I think I'm going to use Light Screen next time I test it. Note that transfers ARE legal in this tournament, so Follow Me is allowed!

-Stunfisk is a very hard hitter for sure, though it has to watch out for Air Balloon shenigans.

-Im sorta tempted to try out Brick Break if screens become popular

-Rotom-W seemed cool to me at first since I wanted to pair it with Electebuzz to screw over Rotom-C, but if sun becomes popular, I might ditch it.

These are just my disorganized first thoughts, feel free to comment on stuff guys! I think Pikacup has a TON of crazy potential strategy wise to say the least!
 
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Tatertot

always the poet, never the poem
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Does Absorb Bulb activate with and cancel out Soak? That could be an interesting way to disrupt Lanturn.
 

Reisen

Translations Project Creator
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Hello,

I've played some games with Theorymon and I've tested some build combinaisons which could be really interesting:

Ampharos @ Light Clay
Ability: Plus
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Magnetic Flux
- Bulldoze
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Minun @ Air Balloon
Ability: Minus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Encore
- Signal Beam

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Signal Beam

Jolteon @ Heat Rock
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sunny Day
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Wish

Dedenne @ Choice Band
Ability: Pickup
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Frustration
- U-turn
- Super Fang

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Lightning Rod
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Volt Switch



SUN, GIVE ME STRENGTH: Heliolisk & Jolteon



Heliolisk could be very dangerous in doubles in my opinion with Hyper Voice STAB that can make damages on the opponent side. I wanted to increase this pressure with Solar Power ability and Specs item because Heliolisk is naturally fast, in Pikachu Cup it can outspeed many pokemons that are available.

I took Jolteon to set the Sunny Day because I wanted to use a fast pokemon, Jolteon is certainly the fastest pokemon in this format + it has access to Wish which can help sometimes.

With Solar Power and Specs, Heliolisk is able to OHKO with Hyper Voice Electivire, Raichu, Pikachu and 2HKO many pokemons that are available in this format.
Also, its Speed stat allows it to outspeed and be sure to make an important pressure to the opponent.

Check and Counters:

  • Electivire Motor Drive: If Electivire is faster, it could easily handle Heliolisk and Jolteon because of its access to Earthquake. Indeed Heliolisk and Jolteon are really fast pokemons but their defense stat is really weak.
  • Stunfisk: That's the real problem that I found when I was battling Theorymon. I find this pokemon actually bulky, it wouldn't get OHKOed by Hyper Voice + it has access to EQ and Earth Power STAB.



NEW PARTNER IN CRIME: Ampharos & Minun



Ampharos isn't made to be offensive. Indeed I play it with walls, Light Screen and Reflect in case of Earthquakes. Ampharos also has a really nice move, Magnetic Flux which increases the Def and SpD stats to the pokemons with Plus / Minus ability. Bulldoze is a really great move because it can affect every pokemons on the field, and it has 100% to decrease the Speed stat, which is really great against Heliolisk or Jolteon.

Minun is the offensive part of this combinaison. It hasn't any STAB moves but it has Nasty Plot. Signal Beam and HP Ground are pretty great and definitely enough against the opponent pokemons. Encore is usefull against the boost moves or even Protect. Air Ballon allows Minun to not be affected by Ampharos Bulldoze.

I really enjoy this combinaison because of the Plus/Minus abilities and Magnetic Flux move.

Check and Counters:

  • Levitate: Rotom and Eelektross a real problem to this combinaison because they have the Levitate ability, Ampharos couldn't affect them with Bulldoze and they couldn't be affected by Minun HP Ground on it.



MUSCULAR MOUSES: Dedenne & Pikachu



People would say that Dedenne has a weird set but actually it works and makes Dedenne a really dangerous physical offense. It has access to Play Rough STAB and also U-Turn which is nice in case of Air Ballon. Moreover, Dedenne has a decent Speed stat which allows it to outspeed many pokemons in this format. Dedenne can easily deal with bulky pokemons such as Eelektross and Rotom.

Pikachu is played physical offense also with Light Ball item, which increases Pikachu's Atk and SpA stats. Pikachu is strong as physical offense because of the combinaison of Light Ball and Knock Off. Indeed, Knock Off can deal with Electabuzz Eviolite / Follow Me. Fake Out on Pikachu allows to Dedenne to safely use U-Turn if it is needed.

This is my favorite combinaison, during our battles with Theorymon I could see that these two mouses are actually quite dangerous and could be a problem to the opponent team.

Check and Counters:

  • Fasters Pokemons: Pikachu and Dedenne have decent Speed Stat and are really great as physical offense, however they still have really bad Defense and SpD stats. Fasters pokemons can easily handle them such as Heliolisk Hyper Voice.
  • Physical Offense: As I mentionned it, their Defense stat is awful, and they are played with Band and Light Ball item, which make them really vulnerable to Earthquake.

Here my little review of the format, I really think that Heliolisk owns as Special Offense with its access to Hyper Voice STAB.

Eviolite Electabuzz + Follow Me could also be a thing if there isn't any Knock Off. Theorymon's Electabuzz could handle many HP Ground.

Levitate Pokemons are certainly essential, such as Eelektross and Rotom. They could avoid from taking EQ / Earth Power and HP Ground.

I also found Stunfisk really annoying, with its Earth Power STAB I think it could also be really strong.
 

Tatertot

always the poet, never the poem
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
So I've been having a decent amount of luck on Showdown with some Gravity shenanigans, here's what I've been playing with mostly. I'm quite new at battling in general, I've mostly been a collector here until recently. Some advice would be greatly welcome! I know there's a RMT section, but given the specificity of this format I wasn't sure if I should post there since it might also be helpful for people here to discuss how Gravity could be utilized. Let me know if it should be moved!

Rotom-Frost @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blizzard
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dark Pulse

Magneton @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Gravity
- Protect
- Flash Cannon
- Light Screen

Electivire @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch

Stunfisk @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA /4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Earth Power
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb

Strategy:
My main strategy has been to first send out Magneton and Rotom, and if they have a high percentage of Air Balloon/Levitate/Emolga, immediately use Magneton to set up Gravity. I'm seeing very few teams that make use of Gravity, so I think it's a strategy that's a bit unprepared for. Most of the time, I use Blizzard to try and blow a chunk out of the opponent's team, though the miss rate sometimes screws me over. If Gravity isn't necessary I go with Light Screen instead on Magneton.

If the other team is using Tailwind support, I usually try and take out their Emolga with Rotom, then stall for a bit to run it out. Usually by this time Magneton has done its job or fainted, so I try and look for an opportunity to bring in Electivire when the opponent is using Encore/Protect or something of the like. From there, Electivire can usually clean up pretty easily, since the Choice Scarf lets it outspeed pretty much anything else that can bother it.

Stunfisk I usually bring in late game to assist Electivire with killing things. Sludge Bomb is a nice surprise to use on Rotom-Mow when there's no Gravity.

Issues:
The main issues I'm having right now are when the opponent leads with an Electivire, which is fairly common on Showdown. Rotom can usually take it down to half health or lower with a Blizzard, but all Magneton can really do is Protect or risk getting KO'd (even with it's insanely bulky spread). Magneton also becomes dead weight once it has used either Gravity or Light Screen, so I'm not really sure what to do there.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Just an FYI but the tournament's dates have been changed to 21st-23rd.

Fuck, I'm on an airplane that weekend and so I can't participate any more ;_;
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Just an FYI but the tournament's dates have been changed to 21st-23rd.

Fuck, I'm on an airplane that weekend and so I can't participate any more ;_;
Fantastic! That means I'll be back from my overseas trip in time for it! Hopefully I can find some wifi to be able to register though.. Too bad about you though Pyritie :(

Theorymon, sure Follow Me is legal on Electabuzz, but good luck getting a good legal one... Your quick team looks cool though. Is Dry Skin on Heliolisk for stopping Soak Lantern? You said he hits real hard under the sun but he doesn't have Solar Power so I'm wondering if you made a mistake or were referring to Awu's team. Can you explain Stunfisks moves? Like is Scald just for Burn fishing? And HP Fire for Magnet Rise Magneton?
 

Theorymon

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Fantastic! That means I'll be back from my overseas trip in time for it! Hopefully I can find some wifi to be able to register though.. Too bad about you though Pyritie :(

Theorymon, sure Follow Me is legal on Electabuzz, but good luck getting a good legal one... Your quick team looks cool though. Is Dry Skin on Heliolisk for stopping Soak Lantern? You said he hits real hard under the sun but he doesn't have Solar Power so I'm wondering if you made a mistake or were referring to Awu's team. Can you explain Stunfisks moves? Like is Scald just for Burn fishing? And HP Fire for Magnet Rise Magneton?
Yep: My Heilolisk was using Dry Skin For Lanturn and Rotom-W (I was thinking some people might try Specs Rotom-W).

Scald on Stunfisk is actually for hitting Rotom-H (I am considering Muddy Water as well), while HP Fire is for hitting Magnezone after a manget rise and Rotom-C (the idea was that I'd redirect the Leaf Storm with Electabuzz)

Also, yeah getting a good legal Follow Me Electabuzz is going to be hell. I believe there is a well known clone of one that some people used in XY Battle Spot Doubles long ago, but if I can't find that thing I might be forced to use Pachirisu instead lol. I guess Pachirisu is less vulnerable to Knock Off at least.
 
Almost everything learns Electroweb, but you risk setting off abilities with it. Galvantula learns Sticky Web as well.

Nothing learns Trick Room and obviously nothing can be paralysed, so there isn't a whole lot of speed control here. Tailwind emolga is a thing but it isn't very bulky.
Mega Ampharos can run electroweb without having to worry about abilities.
 
-I like the idea of Electebuzz, but I think I'm going to use Light Screen next time I test it. Note that transfers ARE legal in this tournament, so Follow Me is allowed!
I wanna see how you procure a Follow Me Electabuzz. lol

Anyway, I was thinking to Rotom-Cut + Stunfisk as core.
 
I'm gonna be running Knock Off on a few of my pokemon. Specifically Emolga and an air balloon Raichu. They each have attack stats equal to their special attack so running them physically in this meta doesn't seem too bad i think. They'd both be immune to Evires eq so they can knock off potential shuca berries, or even just balloons while evire spams eq.
 
I have found cotton spore to be a very good Speed control. Your opponent get the x0.5 speed on both pokemon
Very clever, I'd forgotten that spread Status moves existed. As for spread attacks:
  • Normal type: Electrode and Magnezone learn Explosion and/or Self-Destruct, although they affect your ally too unless they're Rotom. Heliolisk learns Hyper Voice, which only affects opponents, although Soundproof Electrode is also immune. Ampharos, Electivire, Electrode, Jolteon, Luxray, Magneton, Magnezone, Manectric, Minun, Pachirisu, Plusle, Raichu and Rotom also learn Swift, although Electivire and Luxray would probably be better off using Return.
  • Poison: Stunfisk learns Sludge Wave which affects your ally too unless they're Magnezone.
  • Ground: Electivire learns Earthquake which affects your ally too unless they're Eelektross, Emolga or Rotom-*. Stunfisk does too, although its Atk is poor. Ampharos and Heliolisk learn Bulldoze, but again their Atk is poorer than their SpA.
  • Rock: Eelektross, Electivire, Heliolisk and Stunfisk learn Rock Slide, although Heliolisk and Stunfisk have poor Atk. Stunfisk also learns Stealth Rock.
  • Water: Lanturn, Heliolisk, Raichu and Stunfisk learn Surf, although it affects your ally too except Water Absorb Lanturn and Dry Skin Heliolisk.
  • Psychic: Jolteon learns Synchronoise, although it affects your ally too.
  • Ice: Rotom-Frost and Lanturn learn Blizzard.
  • Dark: Manectric and Luxray learn Snarl.
  • Fairy: Lanturn learns Dazzling Gleam.
 
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Code:
×      Normal  Fly  Ground  Bug  Ghost Steel Fire  Water Grass Elec  Ice  Dragon Fairy
Normal    1×    1×    1×    1×    0×    ½×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×
Fighting  2×    ½×    1×    ½×    0×    2×    1×    1×    1×    1×    2×    1×    ½×
Flying    ½×    ½×    ½×    1×    ½×    ¼×    ½×    ½×    1×    ½×    ½×    ½×    ½×
Poison    1×    1×    ½×    1×    ½×    0×    1×    1×    2×    1×    1×    1×    2×
Ground    2×    0×    2×    1×    2×    4×    4×    2×    1×    2×    2×    2×    2×
Rock      1×    2×    ½×    2×    1×    ½×    2×    1×    1×    1×    2×    1×    1×
Bug       1×    ½×    1×    1×    ½×    ½×    ½×    1×    2×    1×    1×    1×    ½×
Ghost     0×    1×    1×    1×    2×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×
Steel     ½×    ½×    ½×    ½×    ½×    ¼×    ¼×    ¼×    ½×    ½×    1×    ½×    1×
Fire      1×    1×    1×    2×    1×    2×    ½×    ½×    2×    1×    2×    ½×    1×
Water     1×    1×    2×    1×    1×    1×    2×    ½×    ½×    1×    1×    ½×    1×
Grass     1×    ½×    2×    ½×    1×    ½×    ½×    2×    ½×    1×    1×    ½×    1×
Electric  ½×    1×    0×    ½×    ½×    ½×    ½×    1×    ¼×    ½×    ½×    ¼×    ½×
Psychic   1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    ½×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×
Ice       1×    2×    2×    1×    1×    ½×    ½×    ½×    2×    1×    ½×    2×    1×
Dragon    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    ½×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    2×    0×
Dark      1×    1×    1×    1×    2×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    ½×
Fairy     1×    1×    1×    1×    1×    ½×    ½×    1×    1×    1×    1×    2×    1×
 
Would discharge and soak work together?
Yes, granted you're not facing any pokemon with abilities that make them immune to electric attacks. Even if they're changed to water type, the ability remains the same. Mega Ampharos ignores those abilities but also ignores your teammates ability, so you'd be hitting Lanturn as well with Discharge and with STAB neutral damage too. Also, Soak only targets one pokemon unlike Discharge. Overall, I think you're better off using tbolt.
 
I found some interesting things while laddering:

  • In a Ampharos vs Ampharos scenario it is best to Protect w/o megaevolving. If you opponent mega evolves you can then proceed to megaevolve next turn outspeed and possibly KO. Ampharos is faster than M-Ampharos so this can be used to the players advantage as turn order is decided prior to megaevolution. Obviously if the opponent is running Agility or something like that this can back fire.
  • Galvantula can run Disable and this can ruin important strategies or nullify certain threats all together e.g. Scarf Electivire, HyperVoice Helioptile
  • Leading with dual critters can be fun :P. Been leading with Emolga+Pikachu. Pikachu Fake Outs the threat then emolga Tailwinds. Next turn you can Encore with Pikachu and maybe toxic something with emolga or Knock off something with pikachu and encore with emolga. Depends on what you are facing. It is pretty disruptive as most of the time an opposing pokemon will attempt to avoid the fake out with protect which leads to a guaranteed encore target next turn.
  • Scarf Electivire is OP and as Awu said Helping hand support can net you important KOs. Electivire also has access to Rock Slide so you can also go for flinches if you don't want to lock into earthquake it also hits emolga, galvantula and some rotom forms for SE damage. I run Adamant 252atk/252speed with EQ/Brick Break/IcePunch/Rock Slide. Brick Break is a good move to breakthrough screens and it also OHKO's Helioptile.
 

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