NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

[jumpluff]

I'm not sure relentlessly pursuing a scum read that has been ignored counts as tunnelling, especially when I was asked directly about it. Wasn't that your argument for why UltrasPlot was town, the insane tunnel on UncleSam? Furthermore I commented in detail on all relevant extant information on Hannahh/Walrein/U-Turn Out as it appeared. You have still failed to make a case for why I should have specifically further objected to U-Turn Out's contributions at the time I subbed in, whereas I have consistently provided a reasonable explanation and read and reacted to new information as it arose. Now that's what I call tunnel vision, DLE.

 

[jumpluff]

^That.

IF anyone feels like being helpful could they fill me in on what is happening atm/posts to direct my attention to.

It just saves all of our time because I can start actually contributing earlier instead of not being able to say anything because I'm sifting through ~27 pages of posts.

If not... I'll start from page 1.

Thanks!

We are discussing the best lynch for today. Suspicion primarily falls upon U-Turn Out (also Walrein and Hannahh due to subbing), Da Letter El, and acidphoenix. There has been secondary accusation directed towards Celever, UltrasPlot, PokeguyNXB, and Yeti + me. Yeti posted a good summary a few threads back. I don't think you need to go through 27 pages of posts, just read everything that's happened today (if you want, start from when I subbed in, read people's reactions to my posts if you can't be bothered to read my tl;drs, then use the search tool to refer back to the events of Day 1 and early Day 2).

 

[jumpluff]

Also, UncleSam could you please retract your vote for now? There are two votes on the user you are lynching and we have just gotten subs and we should let them talk and generate as much discussion today as possible before the nightkills, and also avoid the possibility of a premature end to the day.

As it stands I would most like to lynch Da Letter El, followed by U-Turn Out, followed by acidphoenix.

 

[rssp1]

Sorry, this just means when players are pressured by someone who has vastly more experience in a format or game over them, they behave pretty predictably as a genreal thing.



Why's this WIFOM? There's only two possible conclusions, acidphoenix is intentionally non-contributing after being told repeatedly how to contribute over the game span, or acidphoenix is unintentionally non-contributing and bad. I'm inclined towards the former for numerical reasons (there are still 4 mafia left in the game) and because everyone from PS! who's come in to chime in on acid seems to think he's decent at NOC mafias on PS!, which requires quick thinking, in which case those kinds of posts are inexcusable.

ah, alright.
I was probably using WIFOM incorrectly, what i was trying to say was that there are two possibilities (non-contributing mafia/what you said earlier, purposefully non-contributing townie, for whatever reason). I highly doubt he's unintentionally non-contributing and bad, especially since he's a) not apologized or anything like most others do when called out and b) he still posts the same after being called out. Whatever it is, he appears to be adding as little new information as possible - whether that's a bold mafia play or bad town play is what I wasn't sure about.

@DLE, jumpluff's posts are well-thought out and logical, so s/he seems townie to me. However, s/he is quite.... not sure what word I want to say, but uh aggressive, maybe even pushy, when stating and defending her points.
I'll check back for cancerous and respond later.

 

[Yeti]

I'd disagree with the "Cancerous had super town" portion

Sorry I meant Cancerous was READ as super town by a large portion of the game in what I believe was an unmerited earning.

as well as Yeti's assertion that pluff is probably town, as I feel Cancerous' posts didn't feel authentic and I feel a large portion of pluff's play

I disagree, personally, I think the veracity they've been pursuing leads and posting is in line with their play as town. Considering they were probably following the game a bit beforehand and have had time to develop views on it, I see nothing too suspicious about pursuing a lead they think is scum after subbing in, on Day Two. The players who tunneled on Day One gave me considerable doubt because I just don't think Day One has enough to go on to determine alliance so solidly as many of these players came in blasting. Day Two, however, could easily allow for this sort of determination.

Is UncleSam okay? He hasn't posted for A While.

 

[UncleSam]

I'm not retracting my vote because I'm going to use it to pressure and see no benefit to refusing to use it for that purpose. The lynch is no where near majority.

I'm basically waiting for a substantial post from the subs at this point. I've not seen anything particularly interesting in the filler posts of the last day or so and I'm more interested in numerous other things than this game presently.

 

[jumpluff]

Only if you and DLE are both town.

 

[Yeti]

Only if you and DLE are both town.

Actually this raises a good point, UncleSam what do you think the likelihood you and DLE ARE both town actually is? Or that myself, you and DLE are all town?

 

[UncleSam]

I think it's unlikely DLE is town and almost any scenario where DLE is town would preclude at the least jump luff if not Yeti from also being town.

Also I don't understand jumpluffs post what is the 'only if' referring to

 

[jumpluff]

I think it's unlikely DLE is town and almost any scenario where DLE is town would preclude at the least jump luff if not Yeti from also being town.

Also I don't understand jumpluffs post what is the 'only if' referring to

We are hypothetically closer to majority because unless both of you are scum, the partner of the one out of you two who is scum (presumably DLE, who wants the vote on U-Turn Out for 100% sure given all the options) will vote with him. Two votes then make the difference. U-Turn Out won't vote themselves obviously, their partner may attempt to blend in but only if there is no town/othermaf alternative to vote for (and I really hope you understand the subtext in that because I won't make it more explicit). If both of you are town, the scum team that is not U-Turn Out's has to out both of themselves to cut the day short, and we can rely on both of you to place your votes where you think it is optimal for the town, which means completely postponing a lynch if we haven't milked this day for the info on the subs yet.

There is a reason I asked you to retract yours and not DLE and it's because you're the likelier of the two to be town. I have literally no problem with the vote as an actual lynch vote except that I would rather lynch DLE more since it gives information on you (and me/Yeti), I have a problem with even risking a deadline being placed or a mislynch starting when the subs get back before we can get these substantive posts you're after because I think we can both agree now is a terrible time for a lynch.

 

[UncleSam]

There are two lynch votes on UTO. There is no chance it is getting pushed to majority without it being generally agreed-upon. I am not satisfied with UTO's answers and want him to post more, so I'm keeping my vote on him. Obviously if I see others voting him for no reason I will unvote.

 

[Celever]

Seconded, although I do not think he is trying to lynch me at all. I think he is not trying to lynch anyone actively. I think he is fine with you being lynched, though. I think he is probably less okay with DLE or acidphoenix being lynched based on the timing of his posts. And I quote from this post,

There has been zero attempt from Celever to actually push this UltrasPlot (rssp1?) lynch, even though Yeti provided in two instances arguments he could have latched onto to propose an UltrasPlot lynch. In context of him completely ignoring you, this is stupid as hell because the lynch is shifting from DLE to you. I will acknowledge in fairness that that post looks like it was composed on the go rather than from a pre-built conclusion due to the absence of an initial UltrasPlot scumread, and I never posted about UltrasPlot like I intended to and was asked, but Yeti absolutely did, twice.

This is just false. I've been trying to lynch UltrasPlot all day and I've provided several reasons why he's scum.

The reason why I ignored U-Turn Out is because it's too early to draw any conclusions from his posts: thus far they've been fairly bland townie if I'm being honest and I don't have any strong feelings about him at all. This was even truer at the time of making that post. Honestly I think that thus far U-Turn Out seems very towny but Walrein was questionable, so I'm not sure about his alignment. However, there are far better lynch targets today, so why he has any votes on him is a total mystery to me. UncleSam said it was for pressure, but U-Turn Out is actually contributing.

Anyway, glad to see we've got some subs. sunny004 I had a very strong townread on Pokeguy, so it'd be nice to have some opinions from someone I can really trust. Yeti made a really good summary at the top of page 28 on the general consensus on users, though I must say that I disagree with a couple of them, but a couple of my opinions aren't too popular.

While I would really love to lynch UltrasPlot (or now rssp1) today, the only scumread which we are really agreed upon is DLE and, well, me, fsr. As such, I think that DLE wouldn't be a bad target for us to go for today. I want to see some contributions from the newbies before the night, but it's going to take a bit of time to catch up on things, and we really don't have much to talk about right now until they contribute.

If someone has something they want me to talk about just point it out to me.

 

[realiti]

jumpluff

This is backwards logic. This assumes that Da Letter El is scum and acidphoenix is probably his partner, but allows for the possibility that Celever etc. is his partner. Instead your proposition for the lynch is that we lynch acidphoenix, who has been repeatedly noted to have multiple relations of that type (along with UncleSam and myself) not Da Letter El, the person who in this scenario is your major premise as scum. Elaborate, please?

The reason I think acidphoenix is a better lynch is because he's pretty much guaranteed scum. DLE, while most likely scum, is not guarenteed. DLE is at least somewhat contributing by sharing his thoughts (even though they are incorrect, some effort is put into them), and I feel like I would rather keep him than acidphoenix. I guess DLE's flip provides more information which could be helpful, but I personally I think that getting rid of acid and keeping DLE would be more beneficial.

Seconded, although I do not think he is trying to lynch me at all. I think he is not trying to lynch anyone actively. I think he is fine with you being lynched, though. I think he is probably less okay with DLE or acidphoenix being lynched based on the timing of his posts. And I quote from this post,
There has been zero attempt from Celever to actually push this UltrasPlot (rssp1?) lynch, even though Yeti provided in two instances arguments he could have latched onto to propose an UltrasPlot lynch. In context of him completely ignoring you, this is stupid as hell because the lynch is shifting from DLE to you. I will acknowledge in fairness that that post looks like it was composed on the go rather than from a pre-built conclusion due to the absence of an initial UltrasPlot scumread, and I never posted about UltrasPlot like I intended to and was asked, but Yeti absolutely did, twice.

You raise a good point about Celever not really ignoring me. The problem is, he didn't really do anything against DLE's lynch as well, which makes me wonder what alignment he really is. I just can't tell what he's trying to do at this point.

This doesn't fly when you're being threatened with a lynch for similar reasons, especially when the players you subbed in for did the exact same thing. By the same logic, why should I let you evade my questions when I have clearly delineated my points against you? And I quote,
The bolded part, 'but I felt like DLE was trying to cover [Celever] up' is a clear contradiction with your suggestion that DLE was covering up acidphoenix, which I laid out at the start of this post, as well as your original read about Celever buddying with UncleSam.

What I meant is that they haven't posted anything (one post for acid, two posts for Celever). I have been responding to your questions, so I don't really understand the first part of this point. I still remember Celever buddying with UncleSam and will continue to keep that in my mind, but I have gotten more town vibes from UncleSam recently, and what DLE is doing to acidphoenix also applies to Celever as well. It's interesting how one of DLE and Celever has always been inactive when the other is posting; wonder if they are trying to coordinate something.

Anyway, I will reiterate as logically as possible what I wrote, although it is all readable here for anyone else who would like to evaluate whether I clearly laid out my points or not as I developed them (CTRL-F for Celever).

• U-turn Out's original reads post placed an ambivalent town/scumread on Celever based on several points, the primary of which are a) buddying with UncleSam b) defensiveness c) evasiveness and feigning helpfulness d) aggression towards users e) contribution level
• It also placed a stronger scumread on PokeguyNXB for inactivity and unwillingness to contribute when actually present
• It placed the strongest scumread on acidphoenix for bandwagoning Gale and Haunted Diamond and inactivity, and the strongest town read on Da Letter El
• When responding to Da Letter El's attack on him, U-turn Out appealed to DLE's other scumreads by asking what happened to Celever and acidphoenix, scumreads DLE had also made
• As of U-turn Out's most recent statements, acidphoenix and PokeguyNXB were U-turn Out's strongest scumreads, therefore to omit PokeguyNXB suggested deflection onto Celever rather than an attempt to actually guide the lynch in preferred direction or defend themselves
• The post consequently came across as disingenuous, especially since the other part of the post was about who would make the best lynch and was entirely disparate from the attempt to redirect Da Letter El towards Celever and acidphoenix
• The defensiveness and refusal to defend self (what UncleSam identified as 'WHY MEEE?' behaviour) is neither town or scum behaviour but simply the manifestation of pressured players in an experience differential. However, a town player in such a situation typically will redirect to their own scumreads and not appeal to the biases of the person attacking them. A scum player is happy for whomever to be lynched as long as it's not them (although I think whoever acidphoenix's partner is today is happy to lynch them if forced to)
• There was a clear scumslip in response to Da Letter El's comment that the best lynch would be U-Turn Out because the flip would yield lots of information, namely that if U-Turn Out was mafia I would become #1 suspect for their partner and if U-Turn Out was town then suspicion would fall on Sam and Celever due to absence of scumreads in the lynch
• I disputed DLE's comment in a previous post because I found the logic objectionable in the listed case that U-Turn Out could be town, especially in the context that I felt DLE was trying to subtly build up suspicion on me, and remarked that the flip was accordingly not very useful by DLE's own comments because the only person it would shed any light on is me
• U-Turn Out cited my argument by 'We really don't get much info from my flip at all; jumpluff is the only person who would be affected by my flip as you say they would be my partner if I was mafia.'
• I observed that the bolded part was a very pronounced scumslip as it a) directly assumes the case U-Turn Out flips mafia, which is not the default assumption for someone who knows they are town and would be mislynched b) ignores the case U-Turn Out flips town, in which case U-Turn Out should have opinions on if there were any scum who were culprits directly or indirectly for the mislynch
• The evidence underlying my point b) in the line above is that U-Turn Out made cases for the flips of Celever and acidphoenix (if one flips scum, DLE is their partner), but did not make a case for their own flip as town
• That flip logic ignores U-Turn Out's previous points that UncleSam and Celever were buddying.

Therefore, I concluded the post was coming purely from a desire not to be lynched, and not a desire to correctly redirect the lynch. A remotely rational town player is not happy for anyone to be lynched but them when a mislynch places the town numbers at equal with the mafia numbers. That scenario 'works', but at the most basic level of good play, not if there are people who you can make a correct case for to be lynched (which UTO failed to do when responding to Da Letter El, and only did when responding to UncleSam and myself). A town player wants to defend themselves from the lynch adequately so that they are not mislynched, and also prevent mislynches onto other players, and provide useful information in the case they die, tendencies U-Turn Out had already previously identified as pro-town behaviour that their scumreads (Celever et al.) were not exhibiting and hence can be accountable for not doing in points of pressure.

In conclusion, U-Turn Out, your interactions with Celever are minimal and primarily suggest a desire for attention to return to them (or acidphoenix) off you rather than to establish any point about him. They are purely defensive in nature, something you have identified as scummy behaviour of Celever's yourself.

I already explained the situation about PokeguyNXB; when he subbed out he was more of a null read for me; his sub has been posting and right now he looks pretty towny. acidphoenix and Celever were my top two scumreads at that moment, which is why I specifically called them out; I still see them as my top two scumreads and the best lynches for today. I still wouldn't refer the bolded part as a scumslip, more as a misunderstanding; while you say that the argument makes sense from your point of view, it also made sense from DLE's point of view and his main argument for the information, which is why I put it there, as I said before. I also want to mention that I don't think that UncleSam was buddying Celever, more like Celever buddying UncleSam, which was I was thinking a Celever flip wouldn't really strengthen the case against UncleSam too much, although we should still consider it if Celever does indeed flip mafia.

This is good and I am happy to hear it. I think it is important both to individually identify scummy play and to try to identify weird relationships or absences thereof between players. At this point in the game, process of elimination is valid from one's own PoV to attempt to identify likely scum. This post was far more internally consistent, although I'd like to hear US's response to your question since I can see both of your points (you explicitly identified which scumteam DLE could be on, but responded to DLE clearly and acknowledgedly as if he were town while he, from your PoV, aggressively started a mislynch on you). I would like to hear what you think is a more reasonable set of four scum than Pokeguy/Celever/UltrasPlot[rssp1]/acidphoenix though, since your only proposed list is, as you noted, clunky and inconsistent with your views on PokeguyNXB.

If I were allowed to include DLE in this list he would probably replace one of rssp1 or Pokeguy. UncleSam could possibly go on this list as well, as a scum team with Celever, leaving DLE and acidphoenix as the other team. Most likely, the scumteams are probably DLE + acidphoenix and Celever + rssp1/pokeguy, or Celever + UncleSam and DLE + acidphoenix. I can go into further detail later if you want me to.

Yes, my problem was explicitly that you used my argument to combat them. My argument only makes sense from my PoV. It makes no sense from yours because from your PoV you are not mafia. You are still ignoring the possibility you are town, which is.... really, really weird, to say the least. What would you advise if you are mislynched? What do you think that suggests about Da Letter El and UncleSam?

If I am mislynched (which would be the case if I am lynched), I would highly suggest looking into DLE, he's the one who pushed this lynch in the first place and pretty much focused all his attention on me; acid would pretty much be confirmed scum to everybody, and I would take a deeper look into UncleSam; I think he's just a town mislynching, because his posts just seem like town to me right now, but he should still be under suspicion. I feel like that's pretty much it; there's not really too much to gain from my flip.

UncleSam, can you tell me what part of my posts you aren't satisfied with?

I am really confused by Celever's latest post. I was pretty convinced by jumpluff's theory that he wasn't ignoring me, just staying silent and let the lynch happen. Does he see anything useful that will happen by siding with me? While I do appreciate it, it just seems like a weird thing for Celever to say at the current moment given that jumpluff is correct.

acidphoenix please actually post relevant thoughts such as lynch targets and comments on discussion; your last post just made you look more scummy in my eyes.

I will be more available in the upcoming days, so expect more posts later

 

[Celever]

Ok, hold up. My mafia playstyle is generally looking at long term trends in users rather than just one or two posts, but that post was way too scummy to not call out.

jumpluff

The reason I think acidphoenix is a better lynch is because he's pretty much guaranteed scum.

How is he? This could be a scumslip saying that acid is his partner, but that's not my theory.

DLE, while most likely scum, is not guarenteed. DLE is at least somewhat contributing by sharing his thoughts (even though they are incorrect, some effort is put into them), and I feel like I would rather keep him than acidphoenix. I guess DLE's flip provides more information which could be helpful, but I personally I think that getting rid of acid and keeping DLE would be more beneficial.

This is huge defending of DLE. Gotta admit it looks like DLE could well be your partner here. Though that theory sorta contradicts my next point:

You raise a good point about Celever not really ignoring me. The problem is, he didn't really do anything against DLE's lynch as well, which makes me wonder what alignment he really is. I just can't tell what he's trying to do at this point.

No, I totally ignored you. There wasn't enough info for me to talk about you at the time. And why would I do anything against DLE's lynch? I scumread him. I was supporting it. I also like how you say "I wonder what his alignment really is", because you scum read me, but you're a little confused, because you also scum read DLE, and one of us has to be town because neither of us are on your scum team.

What I meant is that they haven't posted anything (one post for acid, two posts for Celever). I have been responding to your questions, so I don't really understand the first part of this point. I still remember Celever buddying with UncleSam and will continue to keep that in my mind, but I have gotten more town vibes from UncleSam recently, and what DLE is doing to acidphoenix also applies to Celever as well. It's interesting how one of DLE and Celever has always been inactive when the other is posting; wonder if they are trying to coordinate something.

If we had day chat then maybe. Given that I was active for all of Day 2 except for a little while recently I think that this point is kinda forced.

If I were allowed to include DLE in this list he would probably replace one of rssp1 or Pokeguy. UncleSam could possibly go on this list as well, as a scum team with Celever, leaving DLE and acidphoenix as the other team. Most likely, the scumteams are probably DLE + acidphoenix and Celever + rssp1/pokeguy, or Celever + UncleSam and DLE + acidphoenix. I can go into further detail later if you want me to.

How can you say that you don't think DLE is a good lynch option today when in both of your scumteam scenarios he is scum? You're contradicting yourself all over the place, and it really seems like you could be scum with him.

If I am mislynched (which would be the case if I am lynched), I would highly suggest looking into DLE, he's the one who pushed this lynch in the first place and pretty much focused all his attention on me; acid would pretty much be confirmed scum to everybody, and I would take a deeper look into UncleSam; I think he's just a town mislynching, because his posts just seem like town to me right now, but he should still be under suspicion. I feel like that's pretty much it; there's not really too much to gain from my flip.

Nice buss with DLE again.

I am really confused by Celever's latest post. I was pretty convinced by jumpluff's theory that he wasn't ignoring me, just staying silent and let the lynch happen. Does he see anything useful that will happen by siding with me? While I do appreciate it, it just seems like a weird thing for Celever to say at the current moment given that jumpluff is correct.

Why would I stay silent and let the lynch happen when it wasn't going to happen for several days yet thanks to the subs? That makes no sense. It's really not a weird thing to say at all, anyway. Why is it weird?

This whole post reads to me like "I'm town, I'm town, I'm town LOOK AT ME I'M TOWN!!". Little things like this are real rookie mafia mistakes:

If I am mislynched (which would be the case if I am lynched)

Trying to beat it into all of our heads that he's town is definitely a scumtell to me.

Care to defend yourself? I didn't think we had enough info, but you were never a town read for me, just not really a scum read either. After that post you are definitely a scumread, and while I think that rssp1 and DLE are still better lynches today, I'm not opposed to you now either.

 

[realiti]

Ok, hold up. My mafia playstyle is generally looking at long term trends in users rather than just one or two posts, but that post was way too scummy to not call out.

How is he? This could be a scumslip saying that acid is his partner, but that's not my theory.
It's extremely obvious looking at his playstyle and his posts. I can't see a scenario where he's not mafia
This is huge defending of DLE. Gotta admit it looks like DLE could well be your partner here. Though that theory sorta contradicts my next point:
I find it crazy how you think DLE is actually my partner. He's been tunneling me the past few days, and has done the same to Walrein as well. The post was not defending DLE. It was talking about why I thought acidphoenix was a better lynch option, not why I think DLE is clean.

No, I totally ignored you. There wasn't enough info for me to talk about you at the time. And why would I do anything against DLE's lynch? I scumread him. I was supporting it. I also like how you say "I wonder what his alignment really is", because you scum read me, but you're a little confused, because you also scum read DLE, and one of us has to be town because neither of us are on your scum team.
The first part is a fair point, but I have no idea how you would get to the conclusion that one of you two have to be town. Why would you think that DLE isn't on my scumteam when you just said he could very well be my partner? Is it because you see him on your scum team? Or am I missing something?

If we had day chat then maybe. Given that I was active for all of Day 2 except for a little while recently I think that this point is kinda forced.
You could have easily done it in night chat, seeing how it was working for Day 1. You were only active for the first half, the time where DLE was inactive, and you weren't very active the second half, where DLE was.

How can you say that you don't think DLE is a good lynch option today when in both of your scumteam scenarios he is scum? You're contradicting yourself all over the place, and it really seems like you could be scum with him.
I never said he wasn't a good lynch option. I just stated that I thought acidphoenix was a better one. I am not opposed to lynching DLE and will lynch him if necessary.

Nice buss with DLE again.
So you say I'm bussing DLE again, when you said that I was defending him near the the beginning. You're just contradicting yourself

Why would I stay silent and let the lynch happen when it wasn't going to happen for several days yet thanks to the subs? That makes no sense. It's really not a weird thing to say at all, anyway. Why is it weird?
But you have stayed silent. That's the problem.
This whole post reads to me like "I'm town, I'm town, I'm town LOOK AT ME I'M TOWN!!". Little things like this are real rookie mafia mistakes:

Trying to beat it into all of our heads that he's town is definitely a scumtell to me.
So apparently I can't acknowledge that I'm town without it being a scumtell? Cause that's what I feel like you're trying to say
Care to defend yourself? I didn't think we had enough info, but you were never a town read for me, just not really a scum read either. After that post you are definitely a scumread, and while I think that rssp1 and DLE are still better lynches today, I'm not opposed to you now either.
The post just above mine was yours and you said that I was towny?

Responses in bold. I guess I was a little too harsh in my previous post :/

 

[sunny004]

I'm still looking at posts and stuff... Today has been a little crazy :/

Should be my only full day though. Expect a post within a couple of hours if nothing comes up.

 

[Celever]

How is he? This could be a scumslip saying that acid is his partner, but that's not my theory.
It's extremely obvious looking at his playstyle and his posts. I can't see a scenario where he's not mafia

This is still a worrying amount of certainty. Townies generally can't be this certain about anything.

And if you're so sure about him, why aren't you voting for him? Maybe you and acid are a scumteam after all.

This is huge defending of DLE. Gotta admit it looks like DLE could well be your partner here. Though that theory sorta contradicts my next point:
I find it crazy how you think DLE is actually my partner. He's been tunneling me the past few days, and has done the same to Walrein as well. The post was not defending DLE. It was talking about why I thought acidphoenix was a better lynch option, not why I think DLE is clean.

DLE's the sort of player I could see going all in at this point in the game and offing his scum buddy to get major towncred.

No, I totally ignored you. There wasn't enough info for me to talk about you at the time. And why would I do anything against DLE's lynch? I scumread him. I was supporting it. I also like how you say "I wonder what his alignment really is", because you scum read me, but you're a little confused, because you also scum read DLE, and one of us has to be town because neither of us are on your scum team.
The first part is a fair point, but I have no idea how you would get to the conclusion that one of you two have to be town. Why would you think that DLE isn't on my scumteam when you just said he could very well be my partner? Is it because you see him on your scum team? Or am I missing something?

I didn't draw the conclusion that one of us two has to be town. You did. I explained why in that post, I think you must have misread.

If we had day chat then maybe. Given that I was active for all of Day 2 except for a little while recently I think that this point is kinda forced.
You could have easily done it in night chat, seeing how it was working for Day 1. You were only active for the first half, the time where DLE was inactive, and you weren't very active the second half, where DLE was.

And what benefits would we reap from that?

How can you say that you don't think DLE is a good lynch option today when in both of your scumteam scenarios he is scum? You're contradicting yourself all over the place, and it really seems like you could be scum with him.
I never said he wasn't a good lynch option. I just stated that I thought acidphoenix was a better one. I am not opposed to lynching DLE and will lynch him if necessary.

acid isn't a better lynch than DLE if you read both as mafia though. From a townie's perspective DLE would be the better lynch over acid because DLE is better equipped to defend himself and so you want to get rid of that mafia earlier compared to the inactive newbie.

Nice buss with DLE again.
So you say I'm bussing DLE again, when you said that I was defending him near the the beginning. You're just contradicting yourself

No, it's not a contradiction. You were defending DLE from getting lynched, but bussing him in the case that you are lynched. You can buss and defend someone at the same time, it's not one or the other like you said it is here.

Why would I stay silent and let the lynch happen when it wasn't going to happen for several days yet thanks to the subs? That makes no sense. It's really not a weird thing to say at all, anyway. Why is it weird?
But you have stayed silent. That's the problem.

There's no problem. It's not a scumtell because I wouldn't benefit from it at all if I were scum, so unless you can say why I would stay silent your point is incorrect.

This whole post reads to me like "I'm town, I'm town, I'm town LOOK AT ME I'M TOWN!!". Little things like this are real rookie mafia mistakes:

Trying to beat it into all of our heads that he's town is definitely a scumtell to me.
So apparently I can't acknowledge that I'm town without it being a scumtell? Cause that's what I feel like you're trying to say

It goes without saying that everyone in this game at the very least wants everyone else to think that they are town. You don't need to acknowledge it. The only reason you would acknowledge it is to try and hammer it into our heads.

Care to defend yourself? I didn't think we had enough info, but you were never a town read for me, just not really a scum read either. After that post you are definitely a scumread, and while I think that rssp1 and DLE are still better lynches today, I'm not opposed to you now either.
The post just above mine was yours and you said that I was towny?

I said that you were "bland townie" which in my mind reads as "basically null read but there's no reason to say you're scum and one or two to say you are town". I didn't town read you, and now I definitely scum read you.

 

[rssp1]

@DLE
for Cancerous, I agree with TIK's read of him - he was townie, but not going tryhardy at all - he only seemed to point things out when he felt he had something to say, and I feel like his points were logical.

 

[realiti]

This is still a worrying amount of certainty. Townies generally can't be this certain about anything.

Can you elaborate on this? I find that they can be certain, as this has been the case with Gale in this game and probably others in different games; I don't really find this statement true or convincing

And if you're so sure about him, why aren't you voting for him? Maybe you and acid are a scumteam after all.

Just because I'm not voting for him doesn't mean I'm on his scumteam; I don't find that my vote would really accomplish anything; I don't think people are going to be voting him anytime soon unfortunately.

DLE's the sort of player I could see going all in at this point in the game and offing his scum buddy to get major towncred.

Why would he target me instead of you or acid if I was his partner?

I didn't draw the conclusion that one of us two has to be town. You did. I explained why in that post, I think you must have misread.

I can't find any mention of that in my post, can you please point where it is?

And what benefits would we reap from that?

So when one of you are active, the other can disappear and not really get suspected. The active one could then focus the attention on a different inactive. It's not the most perfect strategy but I could see it happening.

acid isn't a better lynch than DLE if you read both as mafia though. From a townie's perspective DLE would be the better lynch over acid because DLE is better equipped to defend himself and so you want to get rid of that mafia earlier compared to the inactive newbie.

As I said before I find acid to be almost certain mafia and DLE somewhat likely; there could always be different scumteams that I listed but I find that acid is pretty much guarenteed on one of them. Therefore I think he is a better lynch

No, it's not a contradiction. You were defending DLE from getting lynched, but bussing him in the case that you are lynched. You can buss and defend someone at the same time, it's not one or the other like you said it is here.

I was never defending DLE as I already stated. Also idk where you're getting the idea that I'm partners with DLE, but I already stated why I don't think him lynching me would be bussing above, and I don't think he's town after his actions against me; therefore I want people to take a look at him when I am lynched.

There's no problem. It's not a scumtell because I wouldn't benefit from it at all if I were scum, so unless you can say why I would stay silent your point is incorrect.

So you can slide by this day without potential scumslipping; you were active Day 1 so people wouldn't really see you as an inactive mafia. Then you disappear when people generally think you as town, or when you're getting suspected to avoid answering to other people's points that you know are true.

It goes without saying that everyone in this game at the very least wants everyone else to think that they are town. You don't need to acknowledge it. The only reason you would acknowledge it is to try and hammer it into our heads.

jumpluff stated that she thinks my view of myself was strange, ignoring the idea that I was town; therefore I wanted people to know that I didn't completely ignore my alightment; now you're saying that it's a scumtell, so I really don't know how to put myself in my own posts now.

 

[sunny004]

The Diabolic Gift seriously needs to make an updated playerlist that includes dead players and what they flipped because its hard af to see who is/isn't in the game atm, which is making it increasingly difficult to make a reads post.

Once the playerlist gets updated I should be able to churn out a reads post in an hour.

 

[The Diabolic Gift]

Um, all players that died flipped villy

 

[UncleSam]

I think he mostly means for subs and who specifically has died.

 

[UncleSam]

Yo sunny004 and rssp1 post saying who you'd like to lynch.

I'm also growing super bored of this again, and would like to request a hard deadline please.

 

[rssp1]

I'm not really sure at this point, let me actually read every post and try to get something.

 

[sunny004]

Da Letter El and Ultrasplot, if they're even in the game

Hate to hate on ma bottom gurl but you seem susp.