Quagsire

[Malley]

Taken over from havokchomp123

Q/C: KratosMana / TDK / Tokyo Tom
GP: The Dutch Plumberjack / Snobalt

[OVERVIEW]
With its great defensive typing and fantastic ability in Unaware combined with decent physical bulk and access to reliable recovery, Quagsire has fashioned itself a clear niche in OU as a physical wall capable of taking on fearsome setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Azumarill, Mega Scizor, Mega Altaria, and Mega Charizard X. With Scald and Recover, it can stall out a good number of physical attackers in the tier, and a range of other move options means that it has very good defensive utility. Its Water / Ground typing gives it four resistances and an immunity to Electric, which, combined with its neutrality to Ice, makes it an excellent stop to momentum-grabbing Electric-types such as Raikou and Mega Manectric. It has only one weakness, but it is a 4x weakness to Grass, which means that it can be caught out by coverage moves such as Mega Metagross's Grass Knot. Additionally, while Quagsire can be very effective in a physically defensive role, its special bulk is somewhat lacking, and it can be 2HKOed by even relatively weak special moves. It also has underwhelming stats all-around, which prevent it from walling some of the most powerful physical attackers in the tier, and it is severely hindered by status ailments, as the chip damage from burn and poison can cripple it as an effective wall. Lastly, it faces competition from the other main Unaware user in OU, Clefable, as, while Quagsire checks physical threats more effectively, Clefable has better special bulk and can bring far more general utility to a team.

[SET]
name: Unaware Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic / Encore
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald and Recover are essential moves for Quagsire to do its job, as they allow it to burn and then stall out physical attackers such as Belly Drum Azumarill and Swords Dance Scizor. Earthquake gives good neutral coverage in conjunction with Scald and allows Quagsire to beat Pokemon that are immune to burns such as Heatran and Mega Charizard X. Toxic is generally the best option for the fourth moveslot to punish switch-ins such as Manaphy and Latios before Quagsire is forced out, without having to rely on Scald's 30% chance to burn. Encore can also be used instead to stop Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados and Suicune from setting up on Quagsire, the former of which ignores Quagsire's Unaware, and the latter of which can stall Quagsire out.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment with a Defense-boosting nature lets Quagsire best check the physical threats it is meant to. A Relaxed nature is used over Impish or Bold to maximize its damage output, which is far more useful to it than its paltry Speed. Leftovers gives Quagsire valuable passive recovery. Unaware allows Quagsire to check certain setup sweepers that would otherwise destroy defensive teams.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to keep Quagsire at close-to-full health as long as there is something on the opponent's team that it is needed to check. Do not let it take any unnecessary damage, as several of the threats it is often required to check only fail to 2HKO it by a matter of a few percent. Status conditions, especially burn and poison, can cripple Quagsire and remove it as a check to certain Pokemon, so be wary around foes that can inflict them, such as Talonflame and Mega Charizard X with Will-O-Wisp. Do not overestimate Quagsire's physical bulk, either: certain physical attackers, such as Life Orb Excadrill, Choice Band Azumarill, and Mega Pinsir, can 2HKO it even with no boosts, so do not assume that it is an automatic check to any physical attacker as long as it is healthy. Quagsire should very rarely come in on a special attack, as its special bulk is very poor, though its typing allows it to counter several Electric-types in the tier. Among those it can counter are Magnezone, Raikou, and Mega Manectric, all of which it threatens back with Earthquake.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that can take on Grass-types pair well with Quagsire, as Grass-types easily force Quagsire out with their STAB moves regardless of boosts. They are especially threatening if they are not seriously hindered by a potential burn from Scald on the switch. Assault Vest Tornadus-T is one potential partner, being able to come in against the likes of Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi and generally force them out. Even outside of super effective hits, Quagsire cannot take any strong special attacks well, so bulky special walls make good partners for it. Ferrothorn is a decent option in this role, as not only does it resist Grass and take hits from strong special attackers such as Latios, but it also takes on Manaphy lacking Hidden Power Fire, which is a considerable threat to defensive teams, on which Quagsire is usually used. Quagsire is crippled by status ailments, so it greatly appreciates cleric support from Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy such as Chansey, Clefable, and Sylveon. Quagsire is also very easily worn down by entry hazards, so ways to remove them and, preferably, keep them off the field in the first place are appreciated. Latias is a good Defogger to pair with Quagsire, as, in addition to removing entry hazards for it, it can take on several Pokemon that cause Quagsire problems, such as Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, and Manaphy, and it appreciates Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Bisharp, and Weavile being reliably checked and worn down. Mega Sableye works well as a partner to keep entry hazards off the field altogether with Magic Bounce, as well as to bounce back status moves aimed at Quagsire. It can also check special attackers such as Alakazam and Gengar, which threaten Quagsire, and it appreciates Pokemon that can set up on it such as Mega Charizard X and Swords Dance users with Lum Berry being checked.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Both Haze and Yawn can be used to shut down Stored Power users, such as Clefable and Mega Latias, and Mold Breaker users, such as Mega Gyarados, which could otherwise boost up in the face of Quagsire's Unaware. Haze is the more reliable option, being able to function if the target is already inflicted with a status condition, another member of the opposing team is asleep, or the target is behind a Substitute; Yawn is less reliable for removing boosts, but it provides more general utility in putting foes to sleep, punishing switch-ins, and shuffling foes around to take entry hazard damage. Ice Beam can be used to hit switch-ins such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp super effectively. Curse gives Quagsire more offensive presence and can give stall teams a clear way of closing games out.

Checks and Counters
==================
**Grass-type Attacks**: With its 4x weakness to Grass, Quagsire falls to any moderately powerful Grass-type attack. Even when burnt, Breloom has a good chance to OHKO Quagsire with Bullet Seed, and almost every special Grass-type attack can easily OHKO it. Quagsire can also be OHKOed by Grass-type coverage moves such as Manaphy's Energy Ball and Mega Metagross's Grass Knot, even without STAB or full investment.

**Special Attackers**: Several strong special attackers, such as Life Orb Latios and Choice Specs Keldeo, can OHKO Quagsire even with neutral hits, and very few of them fail to outspeed and 2HKO it.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: A select group of physical attackers can 2HKO Quagsire even without boosts, such as offensive Landorus-T, Life Orb Excadrill, and Choice Band Azumarill.

**Status Ailments**: Poison and burn prevent Quagsire from remaining at full health, limiting its effectiveness as a check and preventing it from stalling Pokemon out with Recover so effectively. Toxic in particular will eventually force Quagsire out, regardless of how little damage the foe can inflict.

**Taunt Users**: Taunt prevents Quagsire from recovering off chip damage before it is forced out, which can prevent it from switching in against threats that fail to 2HKO it from full health.

**Mold Breaker**: Pokemon with Mold Breaker such as Mega Gyarados can set up in the face of Quagsire and KO it with boosted stats, unhindered by Unaware's effect.

**Stored Power**: Stored Power users such as Mega Latias and Clefable can bypass Unaware by boosting the Base Power of the move itself, and after enough boosts they easily KO Quagsire.

 

[Malley]

Taken this over from havokchomp123. Skeleton is much the same, so TDK suggests I retain the QC stamps, but I've added in a little in C&C about strong physical attackers that can 2HKO without boosts, and also changed "Grass-types" to "Grass-type Attacks". Ready to write this up, but I'll leave it a little while in case anyone wants to add anything more.

 

[AM]

I'd put Curse and Amnesia in moves as opposed to other options. Jpw made a stall team awhile back with dual boosting and it sports a lot of utility in defensively checking both stuff like Mega Scizor and Zard-X along with providing sort of a win condition for stall teams. These move mentions though I would put last as it's sort of a team specific trait. It's better than an OO mention when a boost can be simply made in front of the likes of such threats such as Magnezone and the two other megas mentioned.

 

[Malley]

I'd put Curse and Amnesia in moves as opposed to other options. Jpw made a stall team awhile back with dual boosting and it sports a lot of utility in defensively checking both stuff like Mega Scizor and Zard-X along with providing sort of a win condition for stall teams. These move mentions though I would put last as it's sort of a team specific trait. It's better than an OO mention when a boost can be simply made in front of the likes of such threats such as Magnezone and the two other megas mentioned.

Would that be Curse and Amnesia on the same set, in place of Earthquake and Toxic? As well as presumably both being able to go in place of Toxic on their own.

 

[AM]

Would that be Curse and Amnesia on the same set, in place of Earthquake and Toxic? As well as presumably both being able to go in place of Toxic on their own.

It's normally ran on the same set yes. With an option to run one as a standalone.

 

[Malley]

It's normally ran on the same set yes. With an option to run one as a standalone.

Added this in, cheers

 

[AM]

Malley this is good for a write up at this point so we can get an idea of some of the stuff you're implying. Only thing is to make sure you cover as much as possible in team options. Like for example I don't see Tornadus-T in there when its AV variant is going to be seen a lot on defensive builds sporting the likes of Quagsire anyways.

 

[Malley]

Writing this up now, and I've got a few questions left over from havokchomp's skeleton.

1. What exactly is Encore supposed to do? Quagsire's going to be forcing boosting sweepers out anyway, unless they can 2HKO it in which case Encore is a 50/50 as to whether they just KO Quagsire instead of setting up, and it's too slow to come in on setup moves and lock Pokemon into that. I feel like I'm missing something.

2. Is it even worth mentioning Ice Beam over Ice Punch? It's almost always going to be better to go for Scald against things like Landorus-T and Gliscor, and Grass- and Dragon-types are generally hit harder with Ice Punch. Garchomp is the only thing I can see Ice Beam being useful for hitting, but what's that going to do to Quagsire? Scald breaks Garchomp's Substitute, which is all that's needed. I'm inclined to just put it as an OO.

3. Protect and Yawn (and Encore at the moment, but I assume there's a reason you recommended that) look like they're better suited to Other Options than Moves, and I do want to clear up Moves. Am I safe to move them?

4. Was jpw's Curse + Amnesia set Recover, Curse, Amnesia, Earthquake, or Recover, Curse, Amnesia, Scald? The former makes most sense, but I want to be sure.

AM

 

[Malley]

Ready for third QC check. Haven't yet added Encore to OO, because after speaking to several people all I've got is that it can force out CM Manaphy, CroCune, and CroBro. Not that this isn't worth an OO, but I sense there's more to it. Just waiting for clarification before I add it.

I've been working largely off havokchomp123's skeleton, but I have made a few changes (e.g. removing Counter from OO and SD Mold Breaker Excadrill from C&C, adding in strong physical attackers, hazards, and Stored Power to C&C), so I don't know if this needs an additional QC check or anything. I can also deconstruct this into my own skeleton and start from scratch if need be.

 

[Watagon]

I use Curse, recover, earthquake and ice punch with unaware and leftovers. 252 hp 252 SpD and 4 atk careful nature. it works pretty cool for me, my only problem are grass type and burned/poisoned

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Not gonna lie, as a huge

fan, this needs some work @_@

Overview

With its great defensive typing and fantastic ability in Unaware, combined with decent physical bulk and access to reliable recovery, Quagsire has fashioned itself a clear niche in OU as a physical wall capable of taking on fearsome setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Azumarill, Swords Dance Bisharp, and Mega Charizard X. With Scald and Recover it can stall out a good number of physical attackers in the tier, and a range of other move options means that it has very good defensive utility. Its Water / Ground typing gives it four resistances, an immunity to Electric, and only one weakness, which can make it very hard to break down, although its 4x weakness to Grass means that it can be caught out by coverage moves such as Mega Metagross's Grass Knot and Power Herb Heatran's Solar Beam. However, while Quagsire can be very effective in a physically defensive role, its special bulk is somewhat lacking, and it can be 2HKOed by even relatively weak special moves such as Modest Manaphy's Surf. It also has underwhelming stats all round, meaning that it relies on Leftovers to 100% avoid certain 2HKOs, such as from Mega Lopunny's High Jump Kick, and cannot guarantee the OHKO on Heatran with Earthquake. It is also susceptible to Taunt-using stallbreakers such as Mew and Talonflame, as they can shut down its recovery and make it easier to break. And it faces competition from the other main Unaware user in OU, Clefable, as while Quagsire checks physical threats more effectively Clefable has better special bulk, and can bring far more general utility to a team.

A few things here (each bolding corresponds with a point) -

- Add Mega Scizor to the list of things Quagsire checks. With the prevalence of Mega Scizor in OU, it definitely deserves a mention in the overview, and Quagsire is able to pretty much counter both bulky and offensive sets, which is something that would-be checks like SpDef Heatran or Bulky Landorus-T aren't able to do. Altaria is another 'Mon you can mention, since Quag can even PP stall Heal Bell sets n' the like w/ Toxic, although you should probably keep it to two or three mentions like you have now so it's up to you if you want to remove say, Sharp or Azu for Alt. (I think although they are all very prevalent setup sweepers, Alt is the most common/dangerous of the three)
- I think there should be some mention in here about Quagsire's neutrality to HP Ice, allowing it to shrug off Pokemon like Manectric and Raikou while still stopping Volt Switch, something that Landorus-T or Garchomp can't do.
- HerbTran's SolarBeam can go imo. You go more in-depth in C&C anyways and as much as I (we) love HerbTran, it isn't prominent/currently viable enough to warrant a mention in the analysis (let alone the overview) --> as a side note, this is more GP territory but I'd take out the "however", since you're already talking about one of Quagsire's downsides before that sentence, so you can just start the next sentence w/ "while".
- Manaphy doesn't usually use Modest nor Surf, and even if it did Surf has less than a 50% chance to 2HKO factoring in Lefties. I would cut it at "its special bulk is lacking", since you'll go more in-depth about this later anyway.
- You don't need to be so precise about Lopunny or EQ not OHKOing Heatran (and Lopunny only has a 26% chance to 2HKO a Lefties-less Quagsire anyway, while SpDef Tran is one of the most chip-able 'Mons in OU). You can just say that its below-average stats prevent it from walling some of OU's more powerful physical attackers, like say, Medicham or Excadrill.

As a last thought, I'd also put a mention of Status in the overview, probably over Taunt, since Status is more relevant to Quagsire specifically (it's a burn magnet, since it really wants to switch into Rotom-W, SpDef Talon, Heatran, ZardX, bulky Waters, n' stuff like CM Keld otherwise). Also, Toxic literally ends Quag's life.

Set Comments

Moves
========

Scald and Recover are essential moves for Quagsire to do its job, as they allow it to burn and then stall out physical attackers such as Belly Drum Azumarill and Swords Dance Scizor. Earthquake is generally the best choice for the third moveslot, as it gives good neutral coverage in conjunction with Scald and allows Quagsire to beat Pokemon that are immune to burn such as Heatran and Charizard X. Toxic is a good option for the fourth moveslot, as it allows Quagsire to punish switch-ins such as Manaphy and Latios before being forced out, without having to rely on Scald's 30% chance to burn. Other options for the last slot include: Ice Punch, to hit Pokemon such as Serperior, Latios, and Tornadus-T super effectively on the switch; Curse, to help Quagsire take advantage of the switches it causes and give stall a clear way of closing games out; and Amnesia, to boost Quagsire's special bulk to be on a par with its physical and let it effectively wall a large chunk of the OU tier, barring critical hits. A set making use of both Curse and Amnesia, alongside Recover and Earthquake, can also be run to make Quagsire nearly unbreakable after a few boosts and give it considerable offensive presence.

Just say "Toxic is used in the fourth slot" or something rather than saying "it's a good option", because you don't have anything slashed so it's gonna be the primary option anyway. Also, take out the entire bolded part of that paragraph. Quagsire has no other sets so all of this is pretty much OO material rather than SC material. Anyway, I consider Scald and Recover mandatory on this set, EQ is almost as important for coverage and to prevent Talon/ZardX n' such from Roosting as easily, and Toxic actually allows Quag to stall stuff, and is ultimately a better option to hit stuff like Lati@s n' Serp on the switch anyway, so stuff like Ice Punch is definitely not necessary on the analysis at all. Curse is OO material though, although Waterfall is the move that should be used in a Curse / Amnesia / Recover set (I personally want to take this off completely, considering Quag is already a burn magnet, and forgoing either burn utility or Ground coverage means Quagsire can't actually perform its small niche in OU, leaving it as a (incredibly) slow, status-prone late game sweeper on Stall that is probably better pulled off by something like Clefable, Goth, or even Aggron. But maybe AM has other plans...)

Encore is for set-up sweepers as you said, but you're thinking the bulky side of things. Stuff like Gyarados, Altaria, ZardX, and the like are much more immediately dangerous, but since these guys can get 2HKOed by a decent amount of stuff Encore can give your team chances to get free shots/status on them. Like for example, getting Clef in on the former two. More to your point though, a lot of stuff doesn't want to come in on Cune or Bro in fear of Scald (think KyuB), but can beat both if they get Encored into useless moves. That was a bad example, since Quag n' KyuB aren't exactly amazing partners, but perhaps think Ferro w/ Power Whip, or maybe the threat of Gothitelle coming in and getting a free Trick. With all that said, I'd slash Encore over Toxic, since they end up accomplishing similar things, although Toxic is still the better option as its "hit the switch" utility prevents Quag from being as much of a momentum-suck, and is a better fit on Stall teams that Quag should be primarily used on.

In Set Details, you can again remove mentions of Lopunny 2HKOing w/ HJK for reasons stated above. Just say that Quag needs every bit of recovery it can get due to its low base stats or something.

In Usage Tips:

It is important to keep Quagsire at close-to-full health as long as there is something on the opponent's team that it is needed to check. Do not let it take any unnecessary damage, as several of the things it is often required to check only fail to 2HKO it by a matter of a few percent. Status, especially burn and poison, can cripple Quagsire and remove it as a check to certain things, so be wary around things that can potentially inflict it, such as Heatran with Lava Plume and Charizard X with Will-O-Wisp. And do not overestimate Quagsire's physical bulk: certain physical attackers, such as Earth Plate Landorus-T, Mega Gallade, and Mega Pinsir, can 2HKO it even with no boosts, so do not assume that it is an automatic check to any physical attacker as long as it is healthy.

- I'd say Talon w/ Wisp > Heatran here, since the former is in a similar vein to ZardX where Quag loves switching into offensive variants, but hates switching into defensive variants. Quag is wary of switching into any Heatran because of both Plume burns and Toxic, that can be mentioned separate or just in C&C.
- I'd put CB Azumarill and LO Excadrill at the forefront of this list, since the former straight up 2HKOs and the latter has a very real chance of 2HKOing Quagsire factoring in Lefties, whereas stuff like EP Lando only has a 24% chance to 2HKO and stuff like Gallade isn't /too/ common. They are still worth mentions, I just think Azu n' Drill should be first (usage) and Pinsir next (highest 2HKO chance of the 'Mons listed).

Also, here's how I'd write up the last part, just getting rid of some redundancies imo.

Quagsire should very rarely come in on a special attack, unless the attack is very weak or Quagsire resists it; its special bulk is very poor, and there are very few special attackers in OU into which it can safely switch. as its special bulk is very poor, although its typing allows it to counter a plethora of Electric-types in the tier. Among those it can counter, however, are Magnezone, Raikou, and Manectric, all of which it threatens back with Earthquake.

Team Options looks fine!

Other Options

Everything here looks good. I'd actually say remove the mention of Ice Punch but keep the mention of Beam. Beam just generally does more damage to everything it's relevant to hit, with the only downside being that it has less PP. Also, avoiding Rough Skin damage n' such could come clutch when facing stuff like LO Chomp. Curse should be in OO as well. Also, Yawn / Haze should come first in this section, since they're the most relevant to Quagsire's main niche in OU.

Checks & Counters

The first thing I have to address is the relevancy of the items in C&C here -

**Grass-type Attacks**: With its 4x weakness to Grass, Quagsire falls to any moderately powerful Grass-type attack. Even burned, Breloom has a good chance to OHKO Quagsire with Bullet Seed, and almost every special Grass-type attack can easily OHKO it. Quagsire can also be OHKOed by Grass-type coverage moves such as Manaphy's Energy Ball and Tornadus-T's Grass Knot, even without STAB or full investment.

Tornadus-T almost never runs Grass Knot (never, as far as I'm concerned, nor is Quagsire typically called upon to check Tornadus-T, whereas it would normally be able to Toxic stall TG + 3Atk variants of Manaphy, provided it lacks Energy Ball). A better example of this is Mega Metagross's Grass Knot, which OHKOs Quagsire, an otherwise great answer to Metagross unless the Metagross gets lucky with Zen Headbutt flinches. Another example is Liechi Natural Gift Talonflame, which sees enough use to be considered "relevant", but moreso because Quagsire is otherwise a stellar counter to offensive SD variants of Talonflame. Natural Gift doesn't OHKO, but it can put Quagsire in range of a Brave Bird KO, and obviously residual damage is another thing to consider.

**Special Attackers**: Several strong special attackers, such as Life Orb Latios and Choice Specs Sylveon, can OHKO Quagsire even with neutral hits, and only a very few fail to outspeed and 2HKO it.

Specs Keldeo probably deserves a mention over Sylveon (if this isn't clear, take out the mention of Sylveon), simply due to the difference in usage and viability of the two, as Specs Keldeo is one of OU's most common special attackers. Another thing I think deserves to be mentioned is Focus Blast Thundurus, since Quagsire is a great answer to NP and standard LO sets on paper, but is 2HKOed by the relatively common Focus Blast.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: A select group of physical attackers can 2HKO Quagsire even without boosts, such as offensive Landorus-T, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Gallade.

Gallade and Pinsir aren't very relevant, although the Pinsir mention definitely holds more weight than the Gallade one. I'd replace Gallade with something like LO Excadrill, which 2HKOs Quagsire with Earthquake factoring in SR damage and Lefties recovery (Excadrill is also a Pokemon that people might assume Quagsire can reliably check). CB Azumarill as well, since earlier in the analysis it's mentioned that Quagsire can check BD variants, so it's important to note that Quag can't check all Azumarill.

• **Taunt Users**: Taunt prevents Quagsire from recovering off chip damage before it is forced out, which can prevent it from switching in against threats that fail to 2HKO it from full.
• **Status**: Poison and burn prevent Quagsire from remaining at full health, limiting its effectiveness as a check and preventing it from stalling Pokemon out with Recover so effectively. Toxic in particular will eventually force Quagsire out, regardless of how little damage the foe can inflict.
• **Hazards**: Hazards, especially Spikes, force Quagsire to Recover regularly and check its foes with less HP, meaning that it can give up easy free switches and also fail to avoid certain 2HKOs from physical hits.
• **Mold Breaker**: Pokemon with Mold Breaker such as Mega Gyarados can set up in the face of Quagsire and KO it with boosted stats, unhindered by Unaware's effect.
• **Stored Power**: Stored Power users such as Mega Latias and Clefable can bypass Unaware by boosting the Base Power of the move itself, and after enough boosts easily KO Quagsire.

These are cool for the most part. I'd remove the mention of Hazards completely, since your reasoning for Hazards is very broad and could be applied to almost any defensive Pokemon, and mentions of TSpikes would overlap with Status, so yeah, I'd take Hazards out. Speaking of Status, I think it's the most important category out of these, and it should be moved up to before Taunt Users. I personally think the extra mention of Toxic is redundant, but it's up to you.


Alrite! And with that, you are all set to enjoy your new QUAGSIRE ANALYSIS! How exciting! I'm sure you will find many wonderful things and meet many wonderful people on your journeys together. Now go and discover all the fantastic adventures that await! Be safe, and most importantly, have fun!

and yeah, QC 3/3

 

[Malley]

Just say "Toxic is used in the fourth slot" or something rather than saying "it's a good option", because you don't have anything slashed so it's gonna be the primary option anyway. Also, take out the entire bolded part of that paragraph. Quagsire has no other sets so all of this is pretty much OO material rather than SC material. Anyway, I consider Scald and Recover mandatory on this set, EQ is almost as important for coverage and to prevent Talon/ZardX n' such from Roosting as easily, and Toxic actually allows Quag to stall stuff, and is ultimately a better option to hit stuff like Lati@s n' Serp on the switch anyway, so stuff like Ice Punch is definitely not necessary on the analysis at all. Curse is OO material though, although Waterfall is the move that should be used in a Curse / Amnesia / Recover set (I personally want to take this off completely, considering Quag is already a burn magnet, and forgoing either burn utility or Ground coverage means Quagsire can't actually perform its small niche in OU, leaving it as a (incredibly) slow, status-prone late game sweeper on Stall that is probably better pulled off by something like Clefable, Goth, or even Aggron. But maybe AM has other plans...)

My instinct was to do roughly that, but I was going off havokchomp123's skeleton and AM also recommended that Curse and Amnesia go in Set Details. Not sure what to do when two QC members disagree. Also, surely hitting Latios and Serperior for ~40% on the switch must have a place on some teams?

Encore is for set-up sweepers as you said, but you're thinking the bulky side of things. Stuff like Gyarados, Altaria, ZardX, and the like are much more immediately dangerous, but since these guys can get 2HKOed by a decent amount of stuff Encore can give your team chances to get free shots/status on them.

I don't really understand this bit. Altaria and Zard X are forced out by Quagsire, and Gyarados is something of a special case - SD Mold Breaker Excadrill doesn't exist, and I don't think SD Mold Breaker Hawlucha does either. Not trying to react against the check, just to understand it.

I'd actually say remove the mention of Ice Punch but keep the mention of Beam. Beam just generally does more damage to everything it's relevant to hit, with the only downside being that it has less PP.

I'll change this, but first I'll wait for an answer to my Ice Punch question, as the difference in damage vs. Lati@s is pretty significant. Just because the wording will be quite different depending on whether Ice Punch is in Set Details or not.

Another thing I think deserves to be mentioned is Focus Blast Thundurus, since Quagsire is a great answer to NP and standard LO sets on paper, but is 2HKOed by the relatively common Focus Blast.

Isn't Focus Blast enough of a staple on Thundurus that it just comes under "Special Attackers"? The rest of the analysis shouldn't give the reader the impression that Quagsire is a good counter to it, especially as Thundurus isn't in the list of Electric-types that Quagsire counters.

Changed everything else. Sorry this took so long - my computer shitted up on me just as I finished it the first time round.

 

[AM]

Go with what tokyo tom said.

 

[Karxrida]

I'll change this, but first I'll wait for an answer to my Ice Punch question, as the difference in damage vs. Lati@s is pretty significant. Just because the wording will be quite different depending on whether Ice Punch is in Set Details or not.

I'd like to point out that you never want to fight Lati@s. Unaware ignores Special Attack drops from Draco Meteor. This means that Latios can always guarantee an OHKO after Rocks (and without Rocks it's still more than a 90% chance), while Latias has a 68.8% chance to do so with one layer of Spikes or KO with Rocks + a small amount of prior damage.

 

[Malley]

Okay, made all the changes. This is ready for GP. And Karxrida - Ice Punch is for hitting them on the switch. I've removed it though.

 

[Lumari]

repaying you for checking the maison guide

remove
add (Capitalize / Fix)
(comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)

quagsire

[OVERVIEW]
With its great defensive typing and fantastic ability in Unaware, combined with decent physical bulk and access to reliable recovery, Quagsire has fashioned itself a clear niche in OU as a physical wall capable of taking on fearsome setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Azumarill, Mega Scizor, Mega Altaria, and Mega Charizard X. With Scald and Recover it can stall out a good number of physical attackers in the tier, and a range of other move options means that it has very good defensive utility. Its Water / Ground typing gives it four resistances and an immunity to Electric, which combined with its neutrality to Ice makes it an excellent stop to momentum-grabbing Electric-types such as Raikou and Mega Manectric. It has only one weakness, but that is a 4x weakness to Grass, which means that it can be caught out by coverage moves such as Mega Metagross's Grass Knot. And Additionally, (no starting sentences with "and" and such in what's supposed to be formal writing) while Quagsire can be very effective in a physically defensive role, its special bulk is somewhat lacking, and it can be 2HKOed by even relatively weak special moves. It also has underwhelming stats all round, which prevent it from walling some of the most powerful physical attackers in the tier, (comma) and it is also (less repetitive) severely hindered by status, as the chip damage from burn and poison can cripple it as an effective wall. And Lastly, it faces competition from the other main Unaware user in OU, Clefable, as while Quagsire checks physical threats more effectively, (AC; if you want to toss a comma before "while" too go ahead :> ) Clefable has better special bulk (RC) and can bring far more general utility to a team.

[SET]
name: Unaware Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic / Encore
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald and Recover are essential moves for Quagsire to do its job, as they allow it to burn and then stall out physical attackers such as Belly Drum Azumarill and Swords Dance Scizor. Earthquake is generally the best choice for the third moveslot, as it gives good neutral coverage in conjunction with Scald and allows Quagsire to beat Pokemon that are immune to burn such as Heatran and Mega Charizard X. Toxic is generally the best option for the fourth moveslow to punish switch-ins such as Manaphy and Latios before Quagsire is forced out (RC) without having to rely on Scald's 30% chance to burn. Encore can also be used though, to stop Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados and Suicune setting up on Quagsire, (comma) the former of which ignores Quagsire's Unaware, and the latter of which can stall Quagsire out. (or keep the semicolon, remove both instances of "of which", and still add "and", but as it stands you were making a relative clause into a standalone sentence)

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment with a Defense-boosting nature lets Quagsire best check the physical threats it is meant to. A Relaxed nature is used over Impish or Bold to maximize its damage output, which is far more useful to it than its already paltry (remove hyphen) Speed. Leftovers gives Quagsire valuable passive recovery. Unaware allows Quagsire to check certain setup sweepers that would otherwise destroy defensive teams.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to keep Quagsire at close-to-full health as long as there is something on the opponent's team that it is needed to check. Do not let it take any unnecessary damage, as several of the things threats it is often required to check only fail to 2HKO it by a matter of a few percent. Status, especially burn and poison, can cripple Quagsire and remove it as a check to certain things, so be wary around things that can potentially inflict it, such as Talonflame and Mega Charizard X with Will-O-Wisp. And Do not overestimate Quagsire's physical bulk, either: certain physical attackers, such as Life Orb Excadrill, Choice Band Azumarill, and Mega Pinsir, can 2HKO it even with no boosts, so do not assume that it is an automatic check to any physical attacker as long as it is healthy. Quagsire should very rarely come in on a special attack, as its special bulk is very poor, although its typing allows it to counter several Electric-types in the tier. Among those it can counter are Magnezone, Raikou, and Manectric, all of which it threatens back with Earthquake.

Team Options
========

Anything that can take Grass-type attacks makes a good partner for Quagsire. Pokemon that can take on Grass-types pair especially well with it, as Grass-types easily force Quagsire out with their STAB moves regardless of boosts. They are especially threatening if they are not seriously hindered by a potential burn from Scald on the switch. Assault Vest Tornadus-T is one potential partner, being able to come in against the likes of Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi and generally force them out. Outside of super effective hits, Quagsire cannot take any strong special attacks well, (AC) so bulky special walls make good partners for it. Ferrothorn is a decent option in this role, as not only does it resist Grass and take hits from strong special attackers such as Latios, but it also takes on Manaphy lacking Hidden Power Fire, which is a considerable threaten threat to defensive teams such as those on which Quagsire is usually used. Quagsire is crippled by status, so it greatly appreciates clerical support from Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy such as Chansey, Clefable, and Sylveon. Quagsire is also very easily worn down by entry hazards, so ways to remove them and preferably keep them off the field in the first place are appreciated. Latias is a good Defogger to pair with Quagsire, as, in addition to removing hazards for it, it can take on several Pokemon that cause Quagsire problems, such as Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, and Manaphy, and it appreciates Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Bisharp, and Weavile being reliably checked and worn down. Mega Sableye works well as a partner to keep hazards off the field altogether with Magic Bounce, as well as to bounce back status moves aimed at Quagsire. It can also check special attackers such as Alakazam and Gengar, which threaten Quagsire, and it appreciates things that can set up on it such as Mega Charizard X and Swords Dance users with Lum Berry being checked.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Both Haze and Yawn can be used to shut down Stored Power users, such as Clefable and Mega Latias, and Mold Breaker users, such as Mega Gyarados, that which could otherwise boost up in the face of Quagsire's Unaware. Haze is the more reliable option, being able to function if the target is already inflicted with status, another member of the opposing team is asleep, or the target is behind a Substitute; Yawn is less reliable for removing boosts, but it provides more general utility in putting foes to sleep, punishing switch-ins, and shuffling foes around to take hazard damage. Ice Beam can be used to hit switch-ins such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp super effectively. Curse gives Quagsire more offensive presence (RC) and can give stall teams a clear way of closing games out.

Checks and Counters
==================
(remove bullet points and put spaces after every item)
**Grass-type Attacks**: With its 4x weakness to Grass, Quagsire falls to any moderately powerful Grass-type attack. Even burned, Breloom has a good chance to OHKO Quagsire with Bullet Seed, and almost every special Grass-type attack can easily OHKO it. Quagsire can also be OHKOed by Grass-type coverage moves such as Manaphy's Energy Ball and Mega Metagross's Grass Knot, even without STAB or full investment.

**Special Attackers**: Several strong special attackers, such as Life Orb Latios and Choice Specs Keldeo, can OHKO Quagsire even with neutral hits, and only a very few fail to outspeed and 2HKO it.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: A select group of physical attackers can 2HKO Quagsire even without boosts, such as offensive Landorus-T, Life Orb Excadrill, and Choice Band Azumarill.

**Status**: Poison and burn prevent Quagsire from remaining at full health, limiting its effectiveness as a check and preventing it from stalling Pokemon out with Recover so effectively. Toxic in particular will eventually force Quagsire out, regardless of how little damage the foe can inflict.

**Taunt Users**: Taunt prevents Quagsire from recovering off chip damage before it is forced out, which can prevent it from switching in against threats that fail to 2HKO it from full.

**Mold Breaker**: Pokemon with Mold Breaker such as Mega Gyarados can set up in the face of Quagsire and KO it with boosted stats, unhindered by Unaware's effect.

**Stored Power**: Stored Power users such as Mega Latias and Clefable can bypass Unaware by boosting the Base Power of the move itself, and after enough boosts they easily KO Quagsire.

GP 1/2, good writing :]

 

[Malley]

Beauty, implemented. You already know I added that comma before while.

Ready for second check.

 

[Empress]

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Here ya go

[OVERVIEW]
With its great defensive typing and fantastic ability in Unaware, (RC) combined with decent physical bulk and access to reliable recovery, Quagsire has fashioned itself a clear niche in OU as a physical wall capable of taking on fearsome setup sweepers such as Belly Drum Azumarill, Mega Scizor, Mega Altaria, and Mega Charizard X. With Scald and Recover, (AC) it can stall out a good number of physical attackers in the tier, and a range of other move options means that it has very good defensive utility. Its Water / Ground typing gives it four resistances and an immunity to Electric, which, (AC) combined with its neutrality to Ice, (AC) makes it an excellent stop to momentum-grabbing Electric-types such as Raikou and Mega Manectric. It has only one weakness, but that it is a 4x weakness to Grass, which means that it can be caught out by coverage moves such as Mega Metagross's Grass Knot. Additionally, while Quagsire can be very effective in a physically defensive role, its special bulk is somewhat lacking, and it can be 2HKOed by even relatively weak special moves. It also has underwhelming stats all around, which prevent it from walling some of the most powerful physical attackers in the tier, and it is severely hindered by status ailments, as the chip damage from burn and poison can cripple it as an effective wall. Lastly, it faces competition from the other main Unaware user in OU, Clefable, as, while Quagsire checks physical threats more effectively, Clefable has better special bulk and can bring far more general utility to a team.

[SET]
name: Unaware Wall
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic / Encore
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Scald and Recover are essential moves for Quagsire to do its job, as they allow it to burn and then stall out physical attackers such as Belly Drum Azumarill and Swords Dance Scizor. Earthquake is generally the best choice for the third moveslot, as it gives good neutral coverage in conjunction with Scald and allows Quagsire to beat Pokemon that are immune to burns, such as Heatran and Mega Charizard X. Toxic is generally the best option for the fourth moveslow moveslot to punish switch-ins such as Manaphy and Latios before Quagsire is forced out without having to rely on Scald's 30% chance to burn. Encore can also be used though, instead to stop Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados and Suicune from setting up on Quagsire, the former of which ignores Quagsire's Unaware, and the latter of which can stall Quagsire out.

Set Details
========

Maximum HP and Defense investment with a Defense-boosting nature lets Quagsire best check the physical threats it is meant to. A Relaxed nature is used over Impish or Bold to maximize its damage output, which is far more useful to it than its already paltry Speed. Leftovers gives Quagsire valuable passive recovery. Unaware allows Quagsire to check certain setup sweepers that would otherwise destroy defensive teams.

Usage Tips
========

It is important to keep Quagsire at nearly close-to-full health as long as there is something on the opponent's team that it is needed to check. Do not let it take any unnecessary damage, as several of the threats it is often required to check only fail to 2HKO it by a matter of a few percent. Status conditions, especially burn and poison, can cripple Quagsire and remove prevent it as a from checking to certain things Pokemon, so be wary around things foes that can inflict it them, such as Talonflame and Mega Charizard X with Will-O-Wisp. Do not overestimate Quagsire's physical bulk, either: certain physical attackers, such as Life Orb Excadrill, Choice Band Azumarill, and Mega Pinsir, can 2HKO it even with no boosts (technically they're never boosted b/c of Unaware), so do not assume that it is an automatic check to any physical attacker as long as it is healthy. Quagsire should very rarely come in on a special attack, as its special bulk is very poor, although its typing allows it to counter several Electric-types in the tier. Among those that it can counter are Magnezone, Raikou, and Mega Manectric, all of which it threatens back with Earthquake.

Team Options
========

Anything Pokemon that can take Grass-type attacks makes for a good partners for Quagsire. Pokemon that can take on Grass-types pair especially well with it, as Grass-types easily force Quagsire out with their STAB moves regardless of boosts. They are especially threatening if they are not seriously hindered by a potential burn from Scald on the switch. Assault Vest Tornadus-T is one potential partner, being able to come in against the likes of Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi and generally force them out. Outside of super effective hits, Quagsire cannot take any strong special attacks well, so bulky special walls make for good partners for it. Ferrothorn is a decent option in this role, as not only does it resist Grass and take hits from strong special attackers such as Latios, but it also takes on Manaphy lacking Hidden Power Fire, which is a considerable threat to defensive teams, (AC) such as those on which Quagsire is usually used on. Quagsire is crippled by status ailments, so it greatly appreciates clerical support from Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy such as Chansey, Clefable, and Sylveon. Quagsire is also very easily worn down by entry hazards, so ways to remove them and, (AC) preferably, (AC) keep them off the field in the first place are appreciated. Latias is a good Defogger to pair with Quagsire, as, in addition to removing entry hazards for it, it can take on several Pokemon that cause Quagsire problems, such as Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, and Manaphy, and it appreciates Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Bisharp, and Weavile being reliably checked and worn down. Mega Sableye works well as a partner to keep entry hazards off the field altogether with Magic Bounce, as well as to bounce back status moves aimed at Quagsire. It can also check special attackers such as Alakazam and Gengar, which threaten Quagsire, and it appreciates things Pokemon that can set up on it, (AC) such as Mega Charizard X and Swords Dance users with Lum Berry, (AC) being checked.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Both Haze and Yawn can be used to shut down Stored Power users, such as Clefable and Mega Latias, and Mold Breaker users, such as Mega Gyarados, which could otherwise boost up in the face of Quagsire's Unaware. Haze is the more reliable option, being able to function if the target is already inflicted with a status condition, another member of the opposing team is asleep, or the target is behind a Substitute; Yawn is less reliable for removing boosts, but it provides more general utility in putting foes to sleep, punishing switch-ins, and shuffling foes around to take entry hazard damage. Ice Beam can be used to hit switch-ins such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Garchomp super effectively. Curse gives Quagsire more offensive presence and can give stall teams a clear way of closing games out.

Checks and Counters
==================
**Grass-type Attacks**: With its 4x weakness to Grass, Quagsire falls to any moderately powerful Grass-type attack. Even when burned, Breloom has a good chance to OHKO Quagsire with Bullet Seed, and almost every special Grass-type attack can easily OHKO it. Quagsire can also be OHKOed by Grass-type coverage moves such as Manaphy's Energy Ball and Mega Metagross's Grass Knot, even without STAB or full investment.

**Special Attackers**: Several strong special attackers, such as Life Orb Latios and Choice Specs Keldeo, can OHKO Quagsire even with neutral hits, and only a very few of them fail to outspeed and 2HKO it.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: A select group of physical attackers can 2HKO Quagsire even without boosts, such as offensive Landorus-T, Life Orb Excadrill, and Choice Band Azumarill.

**Status Ailments**: Poison and burn prevent Quagsire from remaining at full health, limiting its effectiveness as a check and preventing it from stalling Pokemon out with Recover so effectively. Toxic in particular will eventually force Quagsire out, regardless of how little damage the foe can inflict.

**Taunt Users**: Taunt prevents Quagsire from recovering off chip damage before it is forced out, which can prevent it from switching in against threats that fail to 2HKO it from full health.

**Mold Breaker**: Pokemon with Mold Breaker such as Mega Gyarados can set up in the face of Quagsire and KO it with boosted stats, unhindered by Unaware's effect.

**Stored Power**: Stored Power users such as Mega Latias and Clefable can bypass Unaware by boosting the Base Power of the move itself, and after enough boosts they easily KO Quagsire.

GP 2/2

 

[Malley]

Implemented and doooone.

 

[kumiko]

uploaded!