Separate Tiering of Mega Pokemon

[M Dragon]

Option 2
The other 2 options make 0 sense, unless you want to tier mons based on items or abilities, which could make tiering a chaos.

Why should Metagross be UU? it has a set (mega) that is really good in OU.
There is also the Blaziken case (blaze blaziken is probably NU, while speed boost is Uber)

 

[Molk]

1) do nothing

 

[Pocket]

Abstain, my vote doesn't matter to singles tiering

this changes nothing for doubles no matter what happens.

Sister, depending on the results we may have to ban Salamence instead of Salamencite

EDIT: Despite being an unofficial tier, DUU also exists

 

[Zarel]

I have one more point to make:

I remember during Baton Pass Clause, where tier leaders [originally] voted for an in-battle clause despite overwhelming PR support for a teambuilder clause (edit: apparently this was just a misunderstanding). I think this is because they looked at it from the perspective of a user who already knows everything about Smogon and the rules from each tier, and didn't consider how confusing it would be to a user new to the tier.

I see the same idea here. To an experienced Smogon user, the rules of each tier are easy enough, it's only one or two bans every few months. To a newcomer to RU, though, should they really be expected to keep track of which mon is RU because its mega is banned in a higher tier, and which mon is RU because its mega is actually usable there? This is information that the teambuilder's tier list can easily convey, but by banning mega stones instead of tiering megas or tiering their base forms, the teambuilder can't convey this information and the users lose.

As Smogon users, you're responsible mostly for other Smogon users, but I have to be responsible for the PS users who aren't as involved with Smogon, and I think this issue disproportionately hurts them. Please, think of the children.

(And yes, I'm fine with waiting until after Grand Slam.)

 

[Magnemite]

Voting for option 3

I'd post more but I have very limited internet access atm (also I'm assuming my opinion matters for this because galbia's vote is included in antar's post)

 

[Fireburn]

I vote to abstain.

The vote does not affect Ubers as Option 3 is already in practice by default (see: Gengar), and I do not participate enough in lower tiers to give an informed opinion.

 

[Antar]

Still waiting on three tier leaders (by my count), but I want to keep the momentum, so let me summarize the results so far:

The tier leaders are pretty split, with a slight majority in favor of Option 3. The votes also didn't break down the way I'd have expected, with higher tiers (those minimally affected) voting one way and the lower tiers (who stand to get the most new mons) voting another, so that kind of complicates matters.

Given that this is far from a slam-dunk decision, I'm wondering if there's not some middle ground.

First off, those who opposed separate tiering (Sam, Raseri, Arcticblast, Molk, Mizuhime), I just want to make sure you realize that the TIMETABLE for this would be the November shift at the earliest, but preferably we'd wait until the release of the next game (regardless of generation, though only assuming the new game has a good number of new mega Pokemon).

If you realized this was the case already and really feel that the best option is to "do nothing" because you actively oppose tiering separately, rather than just not wanting to rock the boat right now, then do me a favor and just hit "like" on this post.

If given this context, you'd like to amend your vote (even just changing to "abstain" or "don't care") please post below.

 

[Raseri]

Oh I'm fine with making this kind of change in the future, preferable when the next game comes out though, so I would like to change to Option 3

 

[Arcticblast]

I am not opposed to making the change with the next batch of new Pokemon. I simply feel, despite reading the arguments in the thread, that there is no significant need for a change to the way we do it now.

 

[Saria]

I was neutral on this, but went through the entire thread and I'm currently leaning towards tiering megas separately.

Just don't change things during slams, that would be silly.

 

[Molk]

Oh, considering that, i'd like to change my vote to Option 3

 

[Zarel]

Okay, I think at this point, we have a clear majority in favor of tiering megas separately sometime in the future.

At this point, we should put it at a run-off:

A: Tier megas separately as of our next tiering shift (November)

B: Tier megas separately as of the next Pokémon game (Z, X2Y2, Gen 7)

C: Strongly opposed to both A and B (please explain in your post)

D: No strong opinion​

Note that as with before, the vote is non-binding; this is to build consensus. In addition to your vote, it may help to say how strong your opinion is here. I would personally strongly prefer to do this sooner (option A), but I'm not completely opposed to waiting longer.

 

[Disjunction]

ok so I hope I'm not going to be viewed as interrupting and I hope nobody asked this question before (cause this thread was a smidge hard to keep up with for me) buuuuut

How will the base formes dropping happen? We set a precedent with ORAS megas that we drop them to the tier they were at from the beginning of ORAS when we dropped Gallade straight to RU, correct? Would we straight drop Steelix/Sceptile/Altaria/etc to NU and then wait for however many months for Manectric/Ampharos/etc? Or would we just subject them all to straight usage drops because nothing was banned/unbanned and they're only changing tiers because of a policy change?

 

[Zarel]

(atomicllamas votes D, in a post that was split off into a different thread.)

As for the time table, I vote D, I don't really care, I'm fine with after the next game or after Grand Slam its w/e for me.

Anyone wishing to discuss the mostly-unrelated UI update to PS should see here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ps-teambuilder-ui-update.3546707/

 

[ryan]

prefer A, fine with B if we think November is too soon

but also D

 

[Sweep]

Voting for B

 

[Raseri]

I prefer B but am not opposed to A

 

[AM]

B

 

[Antar]

For those voting B (or, really, for any other option), how would you feel about transitioning our stats, analyses, teambuilders, etc. to consider the Pokemon separately in advance of any changes to tiering? This would mean separate dex pages for the megas and separate entries in my moveset statistics, in addition to Zarel's teambuilder UI changes.

 

[Saria]

D

 

[Zarel]

In addition to your vote, it may help to say how strong your opinion is here.

Quoting this for emphasis. If you pick A or B, it would help to say how strong your preference is.

 

[Magnemite]

A

I'd be more inclined to go with B if we knew when the next game was coming out, but it hasn't even been announced yet

Also if we do end up going with B, could we drop all of the ORAS megas back to their XY tiers immediately, like we've been doing with individual bans so far?

e: I'm fine with B too, I'm just biased since it takes longer for things to drop to my tier than any of the others

e2: I'm also fine with updating the teambuilder / dex now, as long as we can do it in a way that people are okay with

 

[Molk]

B

 

[g]

a

 

[Sam]

B