p2
Banned deucer.
Yes but there is nothing to reserve at the moment
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OU Analyses Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Jukain
- Start date
p2
Banned deucer.
I went back to AMs big post on cms stuff on page 14 and did Raikou (changed 232 speed sets to 252, removed aura sphere and scarf from oo, added hp fire and zap plate instead) and also added a little bit onto RestTalk on Keldeo's analysis as "giving it some form of recovery" seems really vague when the main purpose of the set is to have longevity against the likes of bisharp and weavile, both of can do up to 40% on a switch in.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Just wondering when the last time was the Gengar analysis was updated. I was just reading a bit through the analysis and it mentions stuff like AV Escavalier and AV Tyranitar. The overview lacks information about the fact that Gengar is a very nice check to Mega Altaria, Mega Gardevoir and Clefable on offensive teams. I also think SubDisable deserves a mention in OO (SubSplit has a small mention and I don't think Disable is any gimmickier than Pain Split)
p2
Banned deucer.
got this one too.
+1 0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 176-207 (67.9 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Idk if I would call it a good check to Altaria, it only needs 1 or 2 rounds of LO recoil or sand damage or just any kind of residual to start getting pushed into range.
Idk if I would call it a good check to Altaria, it only needs 1 or 2 rounds of LO recoil or sand damage or just any kind of residual to start getting pushed into range.
Hi, I just noticed that Hoopa's other form should be called Hoopa-Unbound, not Hoopa-Alt. This causes problems when someone wants to export one of the sets to Showdown. It's not a big deal but it is kind of annoying, probably an easy fix though
Well, an actual analysis for Hoopa-U has not been written up yet, the analysis you see on the Dex is just a series sample sets created in December that are not necessarily ideal sets to use. However, if you are referring to changing the name of Hoopa-Alt to Hoopa-U on the Smogon Dex, then this is not the ideal place to talk about this; you would want to talk to an administrator about that.
p2
Banned deucer.
I spoke to TDK and he said he's not sure when it's going up for reservation.
So a while back I started going through the OU analyses and coming up with a list of small changes to the listed EV spreads in order to tidy up the database a bit. This morning I had a sizeable break between classes and thought I'd finalize it a bit. For the most part, these are very minor changes, but I feel they are necessary for the sake of accuracy. So...here you go.
Altaria: I don't think there's really a point to running 248 HP EVs over 252 on all of these bulkier sets. Mega Altaria's max HP isn't even divisible by 4, much less 8 or 16, so there's no relevant passive damage numbers or anything that you avoid with 248 EVs. For the Support set, moving 4 EVs from SpD to HP will give you the same chances against Specs Keldeo (1.2% chance to 2HKO), and it also lets you maintain the ability to take two 252+ Landorus-T Earthquakes. The other calcs are also unchanged. For DDD, again, 4 SpD EVs to HP will do; you still avoid the 2HKO from Thundurus's HP Ice and such. The HP investment on the Special Attacker set is honestly pretty arbitrary to begin with, and I think there should be significantly more Spe investment, but might as well throw 4 SpA EVs into HP there too.
One last thing: the Support set claims that the given spread avoids the 2HKO from Keldeo's Icy Wind, but you actually are 2HKOed 1.2% of the time with both a 248/152 and a 252/148 spread, so that should be clarified.
Azumarill: The Choice Band set has 172 HP EVs and puts Azumarill's HP at 384, which is divisible by 16. This is one that should probably be dropped by 4 EVs to reduce all forms of passive damage. Where they go doesn't matter.
Clefable: The Set Details sections of the Unaware sets mention 248 HP to minimize hazard damage and damage from Sand and such, but seeing as how Clefable's max HP (394) is not even divisible by 4, this is false. This can be changed to 252, which slightly helps overall bulk and lets Clefable pass slightly bigger Wishes, and the note about reducing passive damage should be removed.
Gardevoir: Similar case here as with Altaria and Clefable. The bulky set has 248 HP investment, which is not divisible by 8. It is divisible by 4, but unless I'm forgetting something, that'll only matter in the event that your opponent manages to get up 3 layers of Spikes. 252 HP will help Mega Gardevoir's overall bulk slightly, and it'll also give it slightly larger Wishes in case it wants to pass one to a teammate.
Gliscor: So, what exactly is the point in dropping Gliscor's HP for a Poison Heal number? Max HP isn't even divisible by 4, so there's no threat of higher passive damage. 252/0 still avoids the OHKO from +2 LO Bisharp's Sucker Punch; in fact, it takes it slightly better (99.4% max compared to 99.7% max for the 244/8 spread). Aside from taking physical hits slightly better, it obviously takes special hits a little better as well. Move those 8 Def EVs to HP.
Heatran: Another case where 248 HP isn't necessary since 252 HP isn't divisible by 4, so unless you're terrified of random Super Fangs or something, that can be maxed out.
Kyurem-B: Quick note, but the Substitute set states that 56 HP hits 404; it actually hits 405, enough to make 101 HP Subs while also being able to switch into Stealth Rock an extra time or make an extra Sub. I feel this should be mentioned.
Latias: Again, 252 HP > 248 HP on the bulky sets since Latias's max HP isn't divisible by 8 (it is divisible by 4, but Latias is immune to Spikes).
Sableye: Kind of a weird case. 252 HP hits 304, which is divisible by 16, so 248 would reduce all forms of passive damage. However, Mega Sableye is pretty talented at keeping hazards off the field, so it may not be completely necessary, and Mega Sableye's defenses are so much higher than its HP that the extra HP point might end up being more valuable regardless. Still helps with random burns, poison, and Sand, though.
Skarmory: The specially defensive set runs 248 HP EVs when Skarmory's max HP isn't divisible by 4, so 252 is fine. In fact, the Set Details section specifically mentions taking less damage from Stealth Rock and burns, which is factually incorrect.
Starmie: Another case where the max HP is divisible by 4 but not by 8 or 16, so outside of switching into 3 layers of Spikes (which Starmie should be able to remove before they get that far), 252 is superior to 248 on the bulky set. Never mind this one, it got fixed in the new analysis.
Tyranitar:
Pretty sure that was supposed to say "+0" instead of "+1." Also, another case where max HP is divisible by 4 but not 8 or 16. 252/76+ hits this same benchmark vs Charizard X, so I recommend going with that.
Mega Venusaur: Max HP divisible by 4 but not 8 blah blah blah. 252 HP seems fine on defensive.
That's about it for the OU stuff, might get to lower tier stuff later, I don't know. Oh, and sorry about being so picky about the 248 HP spreads. It's not a huge deal, but 252 HP does help boost overall bulk on these Pokemon slightly better than 248 HP, so it's generally going to be the better option unless there's a specific reason to run 4 less HP EVs. Putting 248 > 252 also makes players question why you didn't just go with max, at which point the first response is usually "It avoids an even HP number and thus reduces hazard damage" which is often false (as in these cases), and any newer player who checks the math will notice that. You can see how this can put a slight dent in our credibility, which is why I think those need to be adjusted.
Altaria: I don't think there's really a point to running 248 HP EVs over 252 on all of these bulkier sets. Mega Altaria's max HP isn't even divisible by 4, much less 8 or 16, so there's no relevant passive damage numbers or anything that you avoid with 248 EVs. For the Support set, moving 4 EVs from SpD to HP will give you the same chances against Specs Keldeo (1.2% chance to 2HKO), and it also lets you maintain the ability to take two 252+ Landorus-T Earthquakes. The other calcs are also unchanged. For DDD, again, 4 SpD EVs to HP will do; you still avoid the 2HKO from Thundurus's HP Ice and such. The HP investment on the Special Attacker set is honestly pretty arbitrary to begin with, and I think there should be significantly more Spe investment, but might as well throw 4 SpA EVs into HP there too.
One last thing: the Support set claims that the given spread avoids the 2HKO from Keldeo's Icy Wind, but you actually are 2HKOed 1.2% of the time with both a 248/152 and a 252/148 spread, so that should be clarified.
Azumarill: The Choice Band set has 172 HP EVs and puts Azumarill's HP at 384, which is divisible by 16. This is one that should probably be dropped by 4 EVs to reduce all forms of passive damage. Where they go doesn't matter.
Clefable: The Set Details sections of the Unaware sets mention 248 HP to minimize hazard damage and damage from Sand and such, but seeing as how Clefable's max HP (394) is not even divisible by 4, this is false. This can be changed to 252, which slightly helps overall bulk and lets Clefable pass slightly bigger Wishes, and the note about reducing passive damage should be removed.
Gardevoir: Similar case here as with Altaria and Clefable. The bulky set has 248 HP investment, which is not divisible by 8. It is divisible by 4, but unless I'm forgetting something, that'll only matter in the event that your opponent manages to get up 3 layers of Spikes. 252 HP will help Mega Gardevoir's overall bulk slightly, and it'll also give it slightly larger Wishes in case it wants to pass one to a teammate.
Gliscor: So, what exactly is the point in dropping Gliscor's HP for a Poison Heal number? Max HP isn't even divisible by 4, so there's no threat of higher passive damage. 252/0 still avoids the OHKO from +2 LO Bisharp's Sucker Punch; in fact, it takes it slightly better (99.4% max compared to 99.7% max for the 244/8 spread). Aside from taking physical hits slightly better, it obviously takes special hits a little better as well. Move those 8 Def EVs to HP.
Heatran: Another case where 248 HP isn't necessary since 252 HP isn't divisible by 4, so unless you're terrified of random Super Fangs or something, that can be maxed out.
Kyurem-B: Quick note, but the Substitute set states that 56 HP hits 404; it actually hits 405, enough to make 101 HP Subs while also being able to switch into Stealth Rock an extra time or make an extra Sub. I feel this should be mentioned.
Latias: Again, 252 HP > 248 HP on the bulky sets since Latias's max HP isn't divisible by 8 (it is divisible by 4, but Latias is immune to Spikes).
Sableye: Kind of a weird case. 252 HP hits 304, which is divisible by 16, so 248 would reduce all forms of passive damage. However, Mega Sableye is pretty talented at keeping hazards off the field, so it may not be completely necessary, and Mega Sableye's defenses are so much higher than its HP that the extra HP point might end up being more valuable regardless. Still helps with random burns, poison, and Sand, though.
Skarmory: The specially defensive set runs 248 HP EVs when Skarmory's max HP isn't divisible by 4, so 252 is fine. In fact, the Set Details section specifically mentions taking less damage from Stealth Rock and burns, which is factually incorrect.
Tyranitar:
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 80+ Def Tyranitar: 222-262 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty sure that was supposed to say "+0" instead of "+1." Also, another case where max HP is divisible by 4 but not 8 or 16. 252/76+ hits this same benchmark vs Charizard X, so I recommend going with that.
Mega Venusaur: Max HP divisible by 4 but not 8 blah blah blah. 252 HP seems fine on defensive.
That's about it for the OU stuff, might get to lower tier stuff later, I don't know. Oh, and sorry about being so picky about the 248 HP spreads. It's not a huge deal, but 252 HP does help boost overall bulk on these Pokemon slightly better than 248 HP, so it's generally going to be the better option unless there's a specific reason to run 4 less HP EVs. Putting 248 > 252 also makes players question why you didn't just go with max, at which point the first response is usually "It avoids an even HP number and thus reduces hazard damage" which is often false (as in these cases), and any newer player who checks the math will notice that. You can see how this can put a slight dent in our credibility, which is why I think those need to be adjusted.
Hi, I think Calm Mind should get a slash or at least a mention on the Life Orb set for Alakazam. Alakazam forces a lot of switches, so Calm Mind is useful to capitalize on that while letting it take hits from special attackers. I actually used it a bit yesterday on the OU ladder and it did considerably well with the Ladder Tournament going on and all, willing to post replays if needed.
p2
Banned deucer.
Thoughts on slashing Flamethrower with Overheat on the Mega Manectric analysis? Right now the site doesn't even have a mention for it outside of OO. The main mons you miss out on are MegaGross, Excadrill, Ferrothorn (I dont think Ferro is worth mentioning though because its so easily pressured with checking everything and it's more in your odds of OHKOing after SR anyway). I find that it's better than Overheat because half the time, Steel type users are going to try pivot so that you Overheat into a resist/immunity anyway and it screws over those people who need the drops to beat Manectric. It also doesn't miss, so that's also something to take into account.
Just my thoughts because I don't like Overheat on MegaMan that much anymore.
edit: it's done
edit: i also went through some stuff and removed bst mentions as they're kinda pointless with the stat bar being at the top
Just my thoughts because I don't like Overheat on MegaMan that much anymore.
edit: it's done
edit: i also went through some stuff and removed bst mentions as they're kinda pointless with the stat bar being at the top
Last edited:
A Suicune revamp maybe? The CM + Roar set has been getting a lot of popularity as of now, and it's amazing at what it does, so it should be a set imo. In a hazard stacking metagame, Roar is very useful to have to shuffle around things, have a one time check to Zard-X and win opposing Calm Mind wars with ease. The lack of Sleep Talk may hurt it a bit but Suicune has easily enough bulk to live those sleep turns. Maybe make it the first set as well since it's more useful overall than Sleep Talk and Suicune pairs well with cleric support anyways.
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
Why is there not a single mention of SpDef investment on Gastrodon, while stuff like Choice Specs, Life Orb and Stockpile is in OO? I'd rather use Curse (as a matter of fact I did use that and it's not bad at all) than Specs or Stockpile
This is just wrong, should be changed to Relaxed.
This seems kinda weird to me, especially because in the overview it's mentioned that also non-choiced physical attackers, such as Mega Lopunny, can break Gastrodon. Strong Physical Attackers sounds better than only Choice Band users.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/scolipede/ou/
The first analysis is a baton pass set which breaks the baton pass clause. Looks like either the move slot assigned to swords dance/iron defense needs to be changed or the ability has to be changed from Speed Boost. (or else the entire set deleted if there's no way to keep it viable)
TDP edit: moved this here cause QC will need to decide on this and they're more likely to notice it here, set will probably have to be deleted but that's not my call to make
The first analysis is a baton pass set which breaks the baton pass clause. Looks like either the move slot assigned to swords dance/iron defense needs to be changed or the ability has to be changed from Speed Boost. (or else the entire set deleted if there's no way to keep it viable)
TDP edit: moved this here cause QC will need to decide on this and they're more likely to notice it here, set will probably have to be deleted but that's not my call to make
Last edited by a moderator:
I posted in the Mega Diancie thread a while back suggesting the speed benchmark that the Rock Polish set has now on the analysis. I later learned this is only 2 points short of outspeeding Jolly Excadrill in sand, so might as well pump those couple of EVs over. TDK gave me the go ahead about a week ago to change it on the site but I thought I'd just drop it in here before I did it so that anyone who was curious would be informed.
First time making an edit on there so not sure what the process is - I made a change to it but it wasn't saved - so I guess it has to be reviewed before a change?
First time making an edit on there so not sure what the process is - I made a change to it but it wasn't saved - so I guess it has to be reviewed before a change?
[9/13/15, 8:56:24 PM] AM: lol
[9/13/15, 8:56:27 PM] AM: idk why I can't edit
[9/13/15, 8:56:29 PM] AM: hahahaah
[9/13/15, 8:57:12 PM] AM: I'll just pass it on in ou analysis
Lum > Passho on Volcarona so a switch around. Too many mexicans, suggested by TDK, not the mexican part that's me hehe.
[9/13/15, 8:42:32 PM] TDK: SD LO rak should be
[9/13/15, 8:42:37 PM] TDK: Rock Polish / Substitute
[9/13/15, 8:42:40 PM] TDK: not Sub / QA
So basically for Terrakion, the mon we were talking about.
Close Combat
Stone Edge
SD
Rock Polish / Substitute > Substitute / QA
[9/13/15, 8:47:13 PM] AM: I mean
[9/13/15, 8:47:21 PM] AM: all the stuff for Raikou is kind of there
[9/13/15, 8:47:26 PM] AM: besides maybe switching sets around
[9/13/15, 8:47:31 PM] TDK: but the CM set
[9/13/15, 8:47:33 PM] TDK: @_@
[9/13/15, 8:47:39 PM] TDK: maybe just
[9/13/15, 8:47:41 PM] TDK: CM revamp
[9/13/15, 8:47:41 PM] AM: oh
[9/13/15, 8:47:42 PM] AM: yeah
[9/13/15, 8:47:43 PM] AM: that's gross
[9/13/15, 8:47:45 PM] AM: rofl
You'll get the idea when you see it. I'll let TDK and Tokyo Tom mention any revamps or stuff needed to be done wasn't entirely sure what they wanted for sure or just CMS stuff.
[9/13/15, 8:56:27 PM] AM: idk why I can't edit
[9/13/15, 8:56:29 PM] AM: hahahaah
[9/13/15, 8:57:12 PM] AM: I'll just pass it on in ou analysis
Lum > Passho on Volcarona so a switch around. Too many mexicans, suggested by TDK, not the mexican part that's me hehe.
[9/13/15, 8:42:32 PM] TDK: SD LO rak should be
[9/13/15, 8:42:37 PM] TDK: Rock Polish / Substitute
[9/13/15, 8:42:40 PM] TDK: not Sub / QA
So basically for Terrakion, the mon we were talking about.
Close Combat
Stone Edge
SD
Rock Polish / Substitute > Substitute / QA
[9/13/15, 8:47:13 PM] AM: I mean
[9/13/15, 8:47:21 PM] AM: all the stuff for Raikou is kind of there
[9/13/15, 8:47:26 PM] AM: besides maybe switching sets around
[9/13/15, 8:47:31 PM] TDK: but the CM set
[9/13/15, 8:47:33 PM] TDK: @_@
[9/13/15, 8:47:39 PM] TDK: maybe just
[9/13/15, 8:47:41 PM] TDK: CM revamp
[9/13/15, 8:47:41 PM] AM: oh
[9/13/15, 8:47:42 PM] AM: yeah
[9/13/15, 8:47:43 PM] AM: that's gross
[9/13/15, 8:47:45 PM] AM: rofl
You'll get the idea when you see it. I'll let TDK and Tokyo Tom mention any revamps or stuff needed to be done wasn't entirely sure what they wanted for sure or just CMS stuff.
Small detail, but I think Spikes be slashed before Stealth Rocks on Ferrothorn given that it works a lot better as a Spikes setter in general, due to the fact that it tends to force out Pokemon that are vulnerable to Spikes, and SR weak Pokemon like Talonflame and the Zards often switch in on it.
What would people think about replacing Psyshock with Psychic on Lati@s' analyses? They benefit sooo much from the additional power that Psychic provides as it reduces the number of situations in which they need to rely on Draco to score a KO, and there are better things to do than try to beat the blobs with the Latis tbch.