The interesting thing about this is that when something tries to use Curse at +6/+6/-6 there's a "but it failed!" message, but for something like Dragon Dance it's "X's Attack won't go any higher! X's Speed won't go any higher!" Not sure what would make Curse different other than its ??? type.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Curse isn't considered a ??? type move anymore so that can't be it, although Curse is unique compared to other boosting moves for a number of reasons (differing effect based on user's type, only works if there are opponents present on execution, etc.). Does that "but it failed" message apply to other boosting moves or just Curse?
It may be useful to compile a list of boosting moves a distinguishes them based on how the AI uses them, or at least the commonly encountered ones. I wonder how it works with evasion?
It may be useful to compile a list of boosting moves a distinguishes them based on how the AI uses them, or at least the commonly encountered ones. I wonder how it works with evasion?
The most recent anecdotes that come to mind in my dealings with evasion spammers is that they seem to try to sit on one boost, be it one usage of DT or Minimize, and will then try to spread their status move, which is usually Toxic. They resorted to alternating Protect/Evasion move once they'd statused each vulnerable target. If an unpoisoned poke entered, they'd break their pattern (unless they were due for healing) to use Toxic on the healthy foe. Keeping their HP above 50% was always their priority.
Cresselia would make an easier test subject than Blissey, I think, because it won't reach +6 as quickly and doesn't have access to an offensive evasion drop via Mud Bomb, which Blissey likes to spam against things it can hit. If your own poke has Refresh and Haze, it'll be easy to study Cress' behavior as situations change.
Cresselia would make an easier test subject than Blissey, I think, because it won't reach +6 as quickly and doesn't have access to an offensive evasion drop via Mud Bomb, which Blissey likes to spam against things it can hit. If your own poke has Refresh and Haze, it'll be easy to study Cress' behavior as situations change.
Battle 1560 will probably be my last one with this team on this streak. X77W-WWWW-WW2K-UC5T. If you've never seen Chansey use Gallade4 as set-up bait, that would be the video to watch. Again, if you want to get into the Maison but the idea of spending 2 weeks SRing for a good Suicune seems daunting, Chansey does a pretty good job itself.Got 1,000 in a row going with Kangaskhan, Gliscor, and Chansey. I'll try to keep things somewhat brief.
Kangaskhan | Kangaskhanite | Scrappy/Parental Bond
Adamant | 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Sp. Def
- Return
- Earthquake
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
I play Kangaskhan pretty conservatively because Gliscor/Chansey is weaker to certain physical set-up sweepers than Gliscor/Suicune (although I have PP stalled stuff like Gyarados, Hippowdon, Steelix, and Umbreon before when Kangaskhan was out of the picture). So stuff like Charizard, Gliscor, and Tangrowth that Kanga can usually get to +2 against warrants a Chansey switch. It has a pretty fun defensive 'synergy' with Chansey that results in the opponent using all of its non-Ghost moves first so you can waste PP with Chansey and then bring Kangaskhan back in and set up Scrappy Power-Up Punch while the opponent uses something like Shadow Ball. Only other thing of note is that I have PuP PP Maxed for a better chance of getting to +6 against Pressure Zapdos 2 after Chansey PP stalls it.
Gliscor | Toxic Orb | Poison Heal
Careful | 236 HP, 4 Atk, 12 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Spe
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Toxic
Fighting bad. Gliscor good. Same as Jumpman's spread because I wanted to do more of a one-to-one comparison between Suicune and Chansey. Sometimes I wonder if I should make Gliscor more physically defensive since Chansey already takes a massive egg-shaped crap on pretty much every special attacker, but being able to have Gliscor's Sub survive Power Gem from Ampharos is a nice enough convenience (Chansey has no problem setting up on Ampharos but it would inevitably get Staticed while taking it down).
Chansey | Eviolite | Natural Cure
Bold | 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
- Substitute
- Minimize
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
The best singles set for Chansey. When using a stall-heavy team, you want to minimize (ba dum chhh) the likelihood you lose momentum after KOing the opponent's lead, and the Sub/Minimize combo does just that. No Toxic means you know exactly when the opponent is going to faint (or use Rest, in which case you can switch to Kangaskhan and grab a free +4 boost) and you can use the free moveset to go toe-to-toe with Medicham, Conkledurr, Tyrantrum, or anything else that you wouldn't want to be granting a free turn of attacking. I honestly feel as though a set-up Chansey mows through the opponent as often as a Suicune with 6 Calm Minds would; it just deals its damage 50 HP at a time in exchange for being able to switch in against more opponents and to have a precious Substitute. I'd much rather have Chansey in than Gliscor, so I do stuff like hit Shuckle and Cofagrigus with a Toxic and then bring Chansey in to set up.
Chansey can switch in and fully set up on leads as varied as Starmie, Tangrowth, Entei, Porygon-Z, Glaceon, Salamence, Electivire, Jynx, Zapdos, Moltres, Gliscor, Floatzel, Noivern, Tornadus, Regice, Abomasnow, Gardevoir, Bouffalant, and Leafeon, to name just a few (anything less threatening begs a 3-4 turn Kangaskhan sweep). This is made all the more impressive by the fact that Chansey is more often than not coming in on the opponent's strongest move against it; if it takes a critical hit Special Defense dropping Focus Blast on the switch, that just means I probably need to use Soft-Boiled the first turn rather than Sub or Minimize. If I bring in Chansey and KO the lead while keeping Kangaskhan scot-free, anything else is pretty much icing on the cake since I can't think of a single set 4 Pokemon that can beat Kangaskhan and Gliscor 1-on-2. In other words, if I've got +6 Evasion Chansey at 100% health behind a Sub and the 2nd Pokemon out is some scary set-up monster like Garchomp, I'm totally fine to go ahead with the Seismic Tosses until Chansey faints, knowing that no matter what, I'll do enough damage for Kangaskhan to revenge with Sucker Punch and that Chansey just needs to evade one attack to KO Garchomp first.
One goofy Gen 6 mechanic change I learned while using this team that I never would've learned otherwise - a few more moves have joined the illustrious Stomp club as attacks that do double damage against you if you've used Minimize. Not only that, but these attacks will now never miss. So don't get too confused against Dragon Rush, Body Slam, and Flying Press users.
Some threats I came across
-------------------------------
Diverse lead sets: Formerly an interesting part of the challenge in the Battle Tower/Subway, now all but gone due to nearly every trainer being exclusively set 4 and so many Pokemon having relatively similar sets 1-4. I've still had 3-4 battles where I went to Gliscor on the first turn only to have an uncommon set (Virizion 4, Hawlucha 3) use Swords Dance on the switch. In those cases, missing the first Toxic probably would have resulted in a loss, whether due to getting swept outright or having to sacrifice one of Gliscor/Chansey and allowing the other to take heavy damage. When Lati@s 3 is possibly leading, I'm forced to Sucker Punch turn 1, which kinda sucks considering Chansey eats every other set for lunch.
Fighting-type wallbreakers: There are a few Fighting types Gliscor doesn't completely own, such as Infernape 4, Sawk 4, and Terrakion 2. For these three, Close Combat followed by a critical hit from their strongest move against Gliscor (even with PH recovery between the two) can leave me at too low of health to commence the whole Sub/Protect cycle. Either that, or Taunt/Encore will prevent Gliscor from using Sub in the first place. I suppose with Suicune instead of Chansey you can do a little back-and-forth switching to get rid of PP and make it safer for one of the two to set up, but I'm not sure how foolproof it would be in the face of crits or Flare Blitz burning. Anyway, those three in the lead position generally result in the 2nd Pokemon coming out to a Gliscor at around half health and no Sub. Usually this leads to some Water or Ice type Chansey bait coming out 2nd, but I wouldn't particularly enjoy having that 2nd Pokemon be something like Darmanitan or Moxie Salamence or probably a few other things that I can't think of. The closest situation to that has been a battle in which Arcanine followed up an Infernape lead. I let Arcanine KO Gliscor with Flare Blitz and then was able to set up Chansey because it is that much of a freaking beast.
Lead Pinsir: Hmm, easy switch to Gliscor because it will go with the super-effective Close Combat, right?. Nope, the first two times I faced it Gliscor got Guillotined on turn 1. That basically put me at a 30% chance of losing - actually a little less because even if it KOed Chansey Kangaskhan would have a 70% chance of being able to PuP then Sucker Punch for the KO and take on the rest of the team at +2 and full health. Luckily (again, I'd probably have 5000 Singles wins in a row by now if my Glalie team had a similar amount of luck) Chansey got a Sub up on the first turn in both cases, which allowed me to stall Guillotine out and set up a little with Kangaskhan while Pinsir Struggled. After the 2nd time, I decided that I'd switch to Chansey first because Gliscor could at least waste an extra PP with Protect in the event Pinsir started 2-2 on Guillotine. Of course, I've only faced it as a lead one time since, and I switched in Chansey to have it take a critical hit Close Combat (which it survived, incidentally). Never change, Battle Maison.
CH Explosion: I wanna use PuP and then KO stuff like Claydol or Golem. Sometimes they use Explosion on the first turn and get a crit to KO Kangaskhan. I mean, Chansey could come in, try setting up, and take those Explosions like a champ, but I don't really want to have the 2nd Pokemon come out to a weakened Chansey when the overwhelming majority of the time I could have been en route to a 4-turn Kangaskhan sweep.
Battle videos
-------------------
#1,560: The Spiritomb lead has Pressure instead of Infiltrator so once Gliscor Toxics it, I bring in Chansey, which uses the Sub and +2 Evasion to stall Gallade out of Close Combat and set up further. X77W-WWWW-WW2K-UC5T
#1,000: just a M-Kangaskhan sweep. Did take a little finessing at the beginning to ensure Kangaskhan KOed Shiftry with Power-up Punch without taking any prior damage. AVXG-WWWWW-WW2J-ML34
In the interest of keeping things streamlined, here's the link to my first time using this particular team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-122#post-6008156
I'll try to just list the ones that are somewhat unique. Obviously if there's no chance of a crit or status incapacitating Kangaskhan, go ahead and get to +2 and sweep.
Charizard: switch to Chansey and set up
Blastoise: PuP the first turn. If it Yawns, switch to Gliscor and switch back to Kangaskhan. Waterfall will do enough damage to make it go for the Focus Punch KO, so you can PuP again and then KO with Return.
Feraligatr: Return on turn 1. If it DD'ed Sucker Punch for the KO. If not, finish it off with PuP.
Infernape: Switch to Gliscor and KO with EQ. Don't use Protect as you will get Encored.
Serperior; PuP then Sucker Punch. If it's Contrary and crits Kangaskhan, uh oh.
Blaziken: KO with Return. Chansey could probably do alright switching in because it's light enough for Low Kick to do less than Flare Blitz, but I just take the free KO.
Typhlosion: Switch to Chansey and set up.
Emboar: Chansey
Samurott: Chansey
Dugtrio: Gliscor if you can switch out.
Medicham: Return
Granbull: Chansey if it has Intimidate
Marowak: Gliscor
Jynx: Bring Chansey in to stall it out of attacks and then let Kangaskhan set up with PuP
Breloom: PuP turn 1, then Earthquake until you know it has Poison Heal and not Effect Spore
Whiscash: Switch to Gliscor and PP stall until Kangaskhan can set up to +6.
Hariyama: PuP turn 1. Brick Break before Belly Drum is weak.
Absol: Switch to Chansey and try to get a Sub up. If you can't because of confusion, switch Gliscor in when Chansey is in KO range of Punishment and stall out the remaining attacks.
Raichu: Switch to Gliscor and use Toxic at first. Once it's poisoned, waste some turns with Chansey and switch to Gliscor 2 turns before it faints so you can get a Sub up without worrying about Encore
Sawk: Switch to Gliscor. If it used Close Combat, Protect and then EQ. If it used Taunt, switch to Chansey and switch back to Gliscor.
Unfezant: Gliscor
Vileplume: Chansey
Victreebel: Chansey
Noivern: Chansey
Chesnaught: Gliscor
Shiftry: Switch to Gliscor and Toxic it. Switch back to Kanga on the turn it gets around 50% health so you can PuP for the KO.
Exploud: Chansey
Froslass: PP stall with Chansey and then PuP
Darmanitan: Gliscor and get off a PuP when it struggles
Armaldo: Gliscor and get off a PuP when it struggles
Cofagrigus: Switch to Chansey and let it get statused, then switch to Gliscor and try to Toxic it. If Toxic hits, set up with Chansey; if it misses, switch back to Chansey and PP stall.
Golurk: Switch to Gliscor and Toxic. Switch Kangaskhan back in on Shadow Punch the turn Golurk goes to 15% health so you can KO it with PuP
Slowbro: PuP the first two turns before Sucker Punching
Trevenant: PuP then Mega and Sucker Punch. If I face a non-Psychic/Hex Maniac trainer leading with this, I'm more likely to switch to Chansey, PP stall, and set up Kanga.
Gourgeist: Pup then Mega and Sucker Punch
Weezing: Switch to Chansey; if you get Toxiced switch to Gliscor and back to Chansey until you can get a Sub up without Toxic. Once Weezing has 3 Stockpiles, it will use Rest after every Seismic Toss. Switch Kanga back in on the Rest, get to +4, and KO with Return.
Cryogonal: PuP turn 1; it will use Hail
Druddigon: Gliscor. You can switch Kanga back in on struggle and set up a PuP if you want.
Musharna: 2 PuPs then Return
Scrafty: Gliscor if Intimidate, otherwise PuP then Return
Ferrothorn: Chansey
Alakazam: Sucker Punch (don't Mega yet) or switch to Chansey.
Altaria: Chansey
Toxicroak: EQ turn 1
Gothitelle: Chansey if you can switch. Don't Minimize until you're 1 Seismic Toss from KOing
Reuniclus: Chansey
Abomasnow: Chansey
Nidoqueen: Gliscor
Rampardos: EQ turn 1
Escavalier: PuP turn 1; if Swagger hits go to Gliscor
Carracosta: Sucker Punch then EQ. This one sucks because Weakness Policy crit Waterfall can KO so you have to play it safe.
Accelgor: PuP then Sucker Punch
Floatzel: Chansey. You don't want to use anything other than Soft-Boiled until you're at 100% because it Protected.
Zebstrika: Gliscor
Drifblim: PP stall with Chansey then get to +6 with Kanga
Poliwrath: PuP turn 1. It usually tries Focus Punch, but if it uses Circle Throw, try to get Gliscor in and stall it out of Waterfall
Rapidash: Chansey
Muk: Gliscor
Gengar: Gliscor then Chansey to PP stall.
Ampharos: Gliscor
Pinsir: Chansey: Try to Sub up if it missed Guillotine. If it used Close Combat, switch to Gliscor. Once either of those 5 PP moves are stalled out, bring Kanga back in and get to +2 on the struggle
Ursaring: Gliscor
Houndoom: It will use Sunny Day 99% of the time so go ahead and PuP
Donphan: Gliscor
Wailord; Ugh, PuP the first turn and hope it doesn't Fissure. Otherwise you're just PP stalling with Gliscor. As is the case against every trainer with the possible exception of Veterans, bring Chansey in on the Struggle to let it get a couple Minimizes and a Sub because it's better than a Gliscor with a Sub
Ninetales: I live dangerously on this one and PuP followed by Sucker Punch. You can also set up on it with Chansey if Flamethrower burns Kangaskhan on turn 1
Machamp: Gliscor
Shuckle: Bring Gliscor in, set up a Sub, and Toxic it. Then switch to Chansey and set up
Honchkrow: Return
Conkeldurr: Gliscor
Excadrill: Bring in Gliscor, let it do 4 rounds of LO damage to itself, then switch back to Kangaskhan and PuP
Krookodile: Gliscor
Steelix: PuP. If it swaggered Kangaskhan, switch to Chansey and PP stall.
Zoroark: Chansey
Mandibuzz: PuP turn 1 and hope it doesn't use Swagger and hit. Otherwise you're in for a lot of PP stalling
Tentacruel: Bring in Chansey. You can try setting up but if you get Toxiced switch to Gliscor on the Venoshock and PP stall Surf. Just another example of playing ultra-conservatively because Mega Kangaskhan's Earthquake isn't a guaranteed KO
Aerodactyl: it's a tough one. PuP followed by Sucker Punch KOs, but Stone Edge crits Kanga down. Against stuff like Scientists I leave Kanga in, but against Roller Skaters (who can possibly have Gyarados) I try switching Chansey in first. If it doesn't hit both Stone Edges and get a crit one of them, Chansey sets up.
Luxray: Switch to Gliscor on Thunder Wave. You can PP stall Ice fang from there, but I prefer to just pivot to Chansey and set it up instead.
Porygon2: Chansey can PP stall. I Seismic Toss twice to leave it alive at 50% health, bring Kanga in on Shadow Ball, and finish it up with PuP
Porygon-Z: Chansey
Yanmega: Chansey
Gardevoir: Chansey
Gallade: Switch to Gliscor, then Chansey, then back to Gliscor. EQ KOs against -2 Defense, and I don't like stalling Psycho Cut.
Starmie: Chansey
Chandelure: Mega and EQ
Jolteon: PuP turn 1 if you know you're facing set 4 because it's gonna Fake Tears.
Leafeon: Switch to Chansey if you know it's set 4. If not, go Mega and Return as you scout the set
Lucario: Gliscor
Mismagius: PuP and then Return. If it uses Perish Song before Mean Look, switch Kanga out
Dusknoir: Chansey first until you know it's not the set 3 with Will-o-Wisp. After that, Gliscor
Tyranitar: Gliscor
Mamoswine: Gliscor and then LO stall until it's in KO range of EQ (7 turns of recoil)
Gliscor: If it's set 4, Chansey. Otherwise boost with Kanga.
Beartic: PuP then Sucker Punch
Walrein: Switch to Chansey and see how long it can stay alive with Substitute. If it's KOed, stall with Gliscor and set up to +6 as base form Kanga
Crobat: This thing's dumb. Switch to Chansey and stay in until you're Taunted or slept. Then switch to Gliscor. You can PP stall it but be prepared to count its Taunt PP and make some unorthodox plays like staying in and using Earthquake while Gliscor is taunted. If it runs out of Taunt before attacks, you can try setting up Chansey or you can stall it out of all attacks and get to +6 with Kanga. Maybe you could just say YOLO and Return on turn 1 if you want to be less thorough.
Gyarados: PuP then return
Kingdra: Chansey
Milotic: If it Cute Charms Kanga after PuP on turn 1, go to Chansey and PP stall.
Blissey: Gliscor
Electivire: Gliscor for the Thunder Punch then switch to Chansey and set up. You could possibly get frozen/paralyzed and take multiple critical hits, but that hasn't happened to me. If it does, you could stall out all the Ice Punches with Gliscor.
Togekiss: Set up with Chansey. Minimize doesn't help against Aura Sphere, but it doesn't do much damage in the first place.
Arcanine: Gliscor
Dragonite: PuP then Sucker Punch. If Dragon Rush crits on the first turn, go to Gliscor.
Salemence; PuP then Sucker Punch if Moxie. If Intimidate, switch to Chansey and try setting up.
Garchomp: Return then Sucker Punch
Slaking: Switch to Gliscor. The next turn it attacks, switch back to Kanga on the Night Slash, PuP, then Sucker Punch.
Articuno: Try to PuP then Return. If you get KOed by the Sheer Cold one, you have to try to stall it with Gliscor.
Zapdos: Chansey. If it's the Double Team/Bright Powder one and it has Pressure instead of Static, you can bring Kangaskhan back in once all of Zapdos' attacking PP are wasted.
Moltres: Chansey
Raikou: Chansey
Suicune: Chansey. Sets 1 and 3 can be PP stalled for Kangaskhan set-up.
Entei: Chansey. Yes, I've even switched Chansey in on a Sacred Fire burn from set 3 and come out on top. You can PP stall set 2 for Kanga
Regice: Chansey. You can bait a Rest from set 2 and PP stall set 3 for Kanga.
Cobalion: Gliscor. If it's set 3 switch back and forth with Chansey so it doesn't Psych up to +2. If it's set 2 bait a Rest for Kangaskhan
Terrakion: Don't mess around with Sub/Protect unless you know it's Scarf locked into Sacred Sword.
Virizion: Gliscor. As mentioned before, switching in on Swords Dance sucks.
Tornadus: Straight to Chansey. Set 2 can be PP stalled and set 3 can be forced to Rest. Set 4 can be a pain but knowing that it prioritizes setting up Rain Dance over using Taunt can help you with stalling it.
Thundurus: Gliscor. Stall it out of Focus Blast if it's Specs and bring Kanga Back in. Set 2 can be forced into Rest.
Latias/Latios: If set 3 is a possibility, Sucker Punch turn 1. Otherwise go to Chansey. PP stall set 1 and let Chansey set up.
Heatran: Chansey
Cresselia: Chansey. If it's the Double Team/Toxic one, go to Gliscor. If it's set 1, PP stall it out of Psychic, make it Rest, and bring in Kanga.
Landorus: Gliscor: Bring Kanga back on the Focus Blast one. For whatever reason, set 2 doesn't use Fissure untill all of its Smack Down PP are gone, so that's one more thing you can PP stall for Kanga.
Regigigas: Gliscor
NoCheese if you want to clean up my spot on the leaderboard you can just list my current longest streak, this one, and my longest Durant-Cloyster-Drapion streak (971, BV code D9GG-WWWW-WWX-SF59, http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-142#post-6153647), aka the longest Durant +2 sweepers streak that actually happened. I'll work on ensuring that links to the more specific team team details are accessible from the record posts.
Other close-ish calls after 1000
-----------------------
#1024: 4th time against lead Pinsir. This time I use my new-and-improved strategy of switching to Chansey, which gets Guillotined on the switch. So the 4 times I've faced one, it would have OHKOed Kangaskhan all 4 times had I kept it in (3 for 3 on Guillotine and the one time it used Close Combat was a critical hit). Gliscor Protects for Guillotine #2, then the third one misses. Kangaskhan gets to +3 while Pinsir struggles and sweeps through Braviary and Floatzel.
#1142: Kangaskhan gets to +2 KOing lead Probopass. Infernape forces it out with Close Combat and Flare Blitzes Gliscor before being KOed. Remember when I said there could be some set-up sweepers coming in after Infernape that would be quite worrisome? Well, here's Talonflame. Remember when I said that I had some battles that probably would have resulted in me getting swept if Gliscor missed Toxic? Well, Gliscor missed Toxic as it used Swords Dance. After KOing Gliscor with Brave Bird, Talonflame then OHKOs Chansey thanks to a critical hit and a 5/16ths damage roll on top of it. Shit. Now my only hope is that Talonflame doesn't have Gale Wings so Kangaskhan can finish it off with Sucker Punch. Just kidding - Chansey has such an obscene amount of HP that Talonflame KOed itself with recoil damage. GM3W-WWWW-WW2K-URPH
#????: Didn't save a video, but this was probably the scariest one of the entire streak. What happened was my usual opener against Porygon2 - switch Chansey in on the Thunder Wave so I don't have to worry about a Tri Attack freeze/burn (yes, Chansey dominates special attackers so thoroughly that I welcome full paralysis for the PP it helps conserve), stall it until it's using Shadow Ball, Seismic Toss it 3 times, and bring Kangaskhan in to go Mega and KO it with Power-Up Punch. Dragonite came out 2nd and it barely survived Return thanks to Multiscale. It also crit Kangaskhan with Dragon Rush, which put Kangaskhan within range to be taken out by an Extreme Speed the following turn. I brought Gliscor in on Extreme Speed because once Dragonite's stalled out of Dragon Rush, Gliscor can set up on it. The first Dragon rush flinches, so I Protect with Gliscor and am going to use Toxic the following turn to get Dragonite off the field, but Dragonite gets another critical hit and KOs. Chansey takes a Dragon Rush, doesn't flinch, and KOs with Seismic Toss. Last Pokemon is Blissey, which was very scary because Return doesn't OHKO and Kangaskhan was at low enough health for Mud Bomb or a turn of Toxic damage to KO. Luckily Blissey uses Minimize on the first turn, which allows Chansey to get a Substitute up and stall until Blissey struggles to death.
I'm extremely glad I won that one because the loss would have been on me for blindly trusting the Showdown damage calculator and being led astray. You see, my strategy against lead Porygon2 only allowed Kangaskhan to set up to +1 because according to the calculator, Power-Up Punch had a chance of not taking out Porygon2's 92 remaining HP had Chansey only Seismic Tossed twice, and I didn't want to risk paralysis. However, the calculator does not account for the 2nd hit of PuP coming from +1 Attack, and all this time I could have been getting to +2 for free rather than +1. That extra boost would have allowed Kangaskhan to do "87.3-103%" to Dragonite according to the Showdown calculator, which is actually much more than that and a guaranteed KO because the 2nd hit occurs without Multiscale. That's the difference between having to sweat it out and having a 3-0 victory that ends with all three team members at 100% health.
Last edited:
Hi everyone,
After lurking around Smogon for a few years and recently completing my ORAS pokedex, I finally decided to take on the Battle Maison. Ever since Pokémon Emerald I have been intrigued by the Battle facilities, but I have never actually gotten that far, especially since I was never patient enough to EV breed. However, with the new, enhanced breeding mechanics and the possibility get a few good EV pokémon through wonder trade, I was finally brave enough to take on the challenge.
In fact, after getting the trophy of triple and double battles, I took on the Multi Battles. I got to the Chatelaine quite easily, and I decided to see how far I could get. With mixed feelings I lost at battle 95. On the one hand, I was proud that on my first try I got such a high streak, though just falling short a few battles to reach 100 was disappointing. Now, I would like to post my team, and see whether you guys have any suggestions how I could reach a somewhat higher streak. So, here goes:
Greninja @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Timid, 6 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- EQ
- Double-Edge
And, I partnered up with Steven, who used:
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Greninja would use Mat Block at the start of each battle, which served three purposes; first, because Greninja outspeeds most Pokémon it would block all (damaging) attacks, while Aerodactyl would damage one (or two with Rock Slide) of the opposing Pokémon. This is also the second benefit: it's difficult to read what the AI will do with two opposing Pokémon, so I could see what Aerodactyl would try to hit. And of course third, it allows to scout the opponents strategy. Aerodactyl has great type coverage with three Fangs and Rock Slide, so often it would knock out one Pokémon, while Greninja would focus on the other one. Aerodactyl is somewhat frail, and it is easily knocked out by Ice, Electric and Water type moves, though it's Focus Sash usually gives it one extra turn.
Kangaskhan is great as the second one, since it can Fake Out any of the other opponents. I chose Double-Edge over Return, as it's Base power is much higher and therefore the boost is larger, and it allowed me to get rid of opponents that either Aerodactyl or Mega Metagross could not take out. Luckily, recoil damage is applied after the second hit of Parental Bond, so even with Metagross at considerable health and Kangaskhan weakened, I could often knock out the third opponent while Metagross would Bullet Punch the fourth one.
How I lost:
Opponent starts out with Abomasnow and Pinsir. As usual, I start out with Mat Block, but Pinsir outspeeds me and OHKOs me with X-Scissor. Aerodactyl Fire Fangs Abomasnow, but it strikes back with Blizzard, and Snow Warning cancels out Sturdy. Mega Kanga and Mega Meta take out Pinsir and Abomasnow with Fake Out, Double-Edge and Meteor Mash. Then, Volcarona and Infernape come out... Infernal close combats Kangaskhan, who dies immedeatly. Mega Meta is left, but it cannot cope with two fire types and is knocked out by Heat Wave...
So, my question is, how should I have played this differently? Should I have switched to Mega Kanga immediately? I did not expect Pinsir to OHKO Greninja. Furthermore, there was nothing I could do to prevent Abomasnow from knocking out Aerodactyl.
Proof of reaching 95 battles in ORAS Multi with AI: T83W-WWWW-WW2K-VBBJ
After lurking around Smogon for a few years and recently completing my ORAS pokedex, I finally decided to take on the Battle Maison. Ever since Pokémon Emerald I have been intrigued by the Battle facilities, but I have never actually gotten that far, especially since I was never patient enough to EV breed. However, with the new, enhanced breeding mechanics and the possibility get a few good EV pokémon through wonder trade, I was finally brave enough to take on the challenge.
In fact, after getting the trophy of triple and double battles, I took on the Multi Battles. I got to the Chatelaine quite easily, and I decided to see how far I could get. With mixed feelings I lost at battle 95. On the one hand, I was proud that on my first try I got such a high streak, though just falling short a few battles to reach 100 was disappointing. Now, I would like to post my team, and see whether you guys have any suggestions how I could reach a somewhat higher streak. So, here goes:
Greninja @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Timid, 6 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- EQ
- Double-Edge
And, I partnered up with Steven, who used:
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm
Greninja would use Mat Block at the start of each battle, which served three purposes; first, because Greninja outspeeds most Pokémon it would block all (damaging) attacks, while Aerodactyl would damage one (or two with Rock Slide) of the opposing Pokémon. This is also the second benefit: it's difficult to read what the AI will do with two opposing Pokémon, so I could see what Aerodactyl would try to hit. And of course third, it allows to scout the opponents strategy. Aerodactyl has great type coverage with three Fangs and Rock Slide, so often it would knock out one Pokémon, while Greninja would focus on the other one. Aerodactyl is somewhat frail, and it is easily knocked out by Ice, Electric and Water type moves, though it's Focus Sash usually gives it one extra turn.
Kangaskhan is great as the second one, since it can Fake Out any of the other opponents. I chose Double-Edge over Return, as it's Base power is much higher and therefore the boost is larger, and it allowed me to get rid of opponents that either Aerodactyl or Mega Metagross could not take out. Luckily, recoil damage is applied after the second hit of Parental Bond, so even with Metagross at considerable health and Kangaskhan weakened, I could often knock out the third opponent while Metagross would Bullet Punch the fourth one.
How I lost:
Opponent starts out with Abomasnow and Pinsir. As usual, I start out with Mat Block, but Pinsir outspeeds me and OHKOs me with X-Scissor. Aerodactyl Fire Fangs Abomasnow, but it strikes back with Blizzard, and Snow Warning cancels out Sturdy. Mega Kanga and Mega Meta take out Pinsir and Abomasnow with Fake Out, Double-Edge and Meteor Mash. Then, Volcarona and Infernape come out... Infernal close combats Kangaskhan, who dies immedeatly. Mega Meta is left, but it cannot cope with two fire types and is knocked out by Heat Wave...
So, my question is, how should I have played this differently? Should I have switched to Mega Kanga immediately? I did not expect Pinsir to OHKO Greninja. Furthermore, there was nothing I could do to prevent Abomasnow from knocking out Aerodactyl.
Proof of reaching 95 battles in ORAS Multi with AI: T83W-WWWW-WW2K-VBBJ
Last edited:
Pinsir4 holds a Choice Scarf, so you absolutely should have expected it to outspeed and OHKO.
However, with Occa Berry Abomasnow4 and Blizzard imminent, switching in unevolved Kangaskhan to take a Blizzard and X-Scissor would have been just as bad. You were fucked six ways from Sunday.
However, with Occa Berry Abomasnow4 and Blizzard imminent, switching in unevolved Kangaskhan to take a Blizzard and X-Scissor would have been just as bad. You were fucked six ways from Sunday.
I get that Pinsir would outspeed me, it's just that I'm wondering whether the flaw was in my play or in my team; if I had been able to save Greninja for Volcarona and Infernape, perhaps things might have gone differently. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to change so that I could have won this fight.
Not really any way to have won that battle with the team as is. It shows why Focus Sash is the standard item on Greninja though; it would have given you a chance to double target Abomasnow for the KO, and Aerodactyl would likely have taken care of the rest of the battle. Either that or you might be better served with Kangaskhan out first because Mat Block is kind of redundant for something as fast as Aerodactyl.
Pinsir4 also has Close Combat that it might use on Greninja with base power equal to X-Scissor, which is an additional deterrent to switching in Kangaskhan.
Play-wise, there doesn't seem to be anything you could have done. Using Focus Sash over Expert Belt on Greninja would allow it to survive Pinsir's attack and use Mat Block (before dying to hail damage), which would allow Aerodactyl to survive Turn 1. From there, you can Fake Out Pinsir while Aerodactyl finishes off Abomasnow on the next turn. With Aerodactyl still alive, you would have a chance against Volcarona and Infernape.
Play-wise, there doesn't seem to be anything you could have done. Using Focus Sash over Expert Belt on Greninja would allow it to survive Pinsir's attack and use Mat Block (before dying to hail damage), which would allow Aerodactyl to survive Turn 1. From there, you can Fake Out Pinsir while Aerodactyl finishes off Abomasnow on the next turn. With Aerodactyl still alive, you would have a chance against Volcarona and Infernape.
Posting a streak of 1467 wins in Doubles.
Battle video: #1468 - HPMG-WWWW-WW2L-AZQK vs. Regigigas/Landorus/Raikou/Latias
There was some hax, threats to the team in Scarf Landorus, Raikou and Latias1, Regigigas doing its thing, and AI unpredictability, but it came down to misplays - I clicked Thunderbolt when I should've clicked Volt Switch, which got me into a bad situation that secured the loss with a little bad luck on top.
This was the fourth attempt with the team - the first two attempts were below 50 wins while learning to play the team, and the third was ended by an unwinnable Rasmus match-up at around 150. I'm highly disappointed in this loss - I was very close to hitting 1540, which was my goal for now in order to reach 10000 total wins between all four modes. With this loss, I only have 9927 total. I also wanted 1500+ to double my previous 732 streak, which I technically ended up meeting (1467 is greater than 732 times two just barely), but the worst part is the way I lost. While the battle got weird in the late parts, I could've completely avoided that by following the simple rule of using Volt Switch, period.
I guess if ORAS AI Multis which puts players on even ground with the preset partners is included, I would have 10000+ total - but I never counted it in the first place when shooting for this goal and the mode still sucks. I'll try to finish up the write-up later, this loss is a pretty big downer.
A strange coincidence - #1468, the losing battle number, looks quite similar to #6841, my Triples loss, with the four same digits. Talk about unlucky numbers!
On a brighter note, I started theorymoning Mega Sableye in Rotations. Here's what I've got so far:
Sableye @ Sableyenite
-Dark Pulse
-Recover
-Calm Mind
-Flash
Klefki and Dragonite as teammates. With Magic Mirror, Sableye can destroy the Taunt and Encore users that threaten Klefki while having CM/Recover for stalling of its own. The new addition is Flash, which can increase Klefki's odds of succesfully using Substitute with each use regardless of which foe it hits.
Battle video: #1468 - HPMG-WWWW-WW2L-AZQK vs. Regigigas/Landorus/Raikou/Latias
There was some hax, threats to the team in Scarf Landorus, Raikou and Latias1, Regigigas doing its thing, and AI unpredictability, but it came down to misplays - I clicked Thunderbolt when I should've clicked Volt Switch, which got me into a bad situation that secured the loss with a little bad luck on top.
This was the fourth attempt with the team - the first two attempts were below 50 wins while learning to play the team, and the third was ended by an unwinnable Rasmus match-up at around 150. I'm highly disappointed in this loss - I was very close to hitting 1540, which was my goal for now in order to reach 10000 total wins between all four modes. With this loss, I only have 9927 total. I also wanted 1500+ to double my previous 732 streak, which I technically ended up meeting (1467 is greater than 732 times two just barely), but the worst part is the way I lost. While the battle got weird in the late parts, I could've completely avoided that by following the simple rule of using Volt Switch, period.
I guess if ORAS AI Multis which puts players on even ground with the preset partners is included, I would have 10000+ total - but I never counted it in the first place when shooting for this goal and the mode still sucks. I'll try to finish up the write-up later, this loss is a pretty big downer.
A strange coincidence - #1468, the losing battle number, looks quite similar to #6841, my Triples loss, with the four same digits. Talk about unlucky numbers!
On a brighter note, I started theorymoning Mega Sableye in Rotations. Here's what I've got so far:
Sableye @ Sableyenite
-Dark Pulse
-Recover
-Calm Mind
-Flash
Klefki and Dragonite as teammates. With Magic Mirror, Sableye can destroy the Taunt and Encore users that threaten Klefki while having CM/Recover for stalling of its own. The new addition is Flash, which can increase Klefki's odds of succesfully using Substitute with each use regardless of which foe it hits.
Last edited:
I recently decided to try Weavile/M-Gard as a lead combo and while I'm SRing for a Suicune, I was wondering if I should keep my current Pickpocket (HA) Weavile or rebreed for Pressure. For those who don't know, if you get knocked down to your sash by a contact move, Pickpocket does activate and you snatch the opponent's item (I've had it happen). Is there some benefit to running Pressure? Or would the HA be more useful? (or is the ability risky?) I'm not sure either way, TBH.
Pickpocket is quite frankly terrible, Weavile really wants to switch moves in order to be effective (baiting attacks with Protect at 1HP etc), so the last thing you want to do it steal a Choice item of a status Orb. Pressure isn't gonna do anything like 99,5% of the time (maybe stall out Aerodactyl's Stone Edge once in a very blue moon), but the risk of stealing a bad item with Pickpocket doesn't outweigh the advantages of potentially snatching a Muscle Band or something--your team shouldn't have to rely on that in the first place. It's similar to Fire Blast vs. Flamethrower, really; you want consistency, and Pickpocket doesn't provide that.
Last edited:
I don't think Pickpocket would be that risky (and definitely don't think it would be worth rebreeding) because almost everything that could possibly give Weavile a bad item like Flame Orb Machamp or Iron Ball Conkeldurr is going to be KOed by Hyper Voice. Darmanitan, Terrakion, and Pinsir are going to be the only Choice users that activate Pickpocket, and in the event you can't play around them with Fake Out or don't have a teammate that can take advantage by switching in on the obvious Fighting move, removing a Scarf is still pretty good team support at the end of the day.
My opinion on Pickpocket is that it sucks. Risky items aside from Toxic/Flame Orb, Choice items and Iron Ball include Life Orb, which kills you after you've dropped to 1HP.
The cases where Pickpocket steals something valuable are going to be very rare. Muscle Band, Expert Belt, Berries, and hax items can be alright steals if you get to snag them (but you probably still use Protect on 1HP Weavile to bait attacks instead before getting to use them) - Choice items prevent Weavile from using Protect at 1HP without locking into the move, and I would not want them. Removing Scarf from enemies also means they are no longer Choice locked, which is a mixed benefit at best and I'd consider it a net loss with Weavile getting crippled. There's also Choice Band, for which many of its users carry Fighting moves to make a generous donation with. Snatching Focus Sash from a full-HP Infernape4 could be good, though.
Then there's the opportunity cost of losing out on Pressure, which is reliable, carries zero risk of backfiring, and is useful in select situations. I'm preaching about Pressure because it is money in the bank on Raikou which has the bulk to get consistent mileage out of it and teammates that appreciate PP erasure, but even on Weavile it can drain 5 PP moves such as Blizzard, Eruption, Stone Edge and Focus Blast out of PP - or get them to 1 PP where one Protect from a teammate afterwards will empty it and cripple the threat.
Howewer, I agree that it's not worth rebreeding for unless you're going for a large streak.
Last edited:
Hi everybody!
For several months I've been working on creating the "perfect" team for Super Rotation Battles in ORAS. Now I have finally reached 1000 consecutive wins and so I thought to share my story with you.
Repeated Critical hits are a plague in Battle Maison and goal of this team was to make Crits a non-factor. I built a team of great individuals that compliment each others weaknesses defensively and offensively.
My team revolves around Wish support Chansey and bulky set up sweepers Dragonite and Mega Metagross. Talonflame is there hit to hard and fast. Dragonite appreciates multiple turns of set up, Mega Metagross needs one and Taloflame none.
Here's a video of my 1000th battle:
I made it for entertainment purposes so it may not be your cup of tea but there's the big win.
Here's a playlist to rest of the episodes if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdodkRT1-_BD8wsxAYGN2co-_Kr7S-b13
I always have Chansey on the first active lead spot to avoid possible Intimidates. Most of my battles I start by rotating into Metagross. I Mega evolve it and set up with Hone Claws on the first turn and then proceed to Meteor Mash everything to oblivion, while surprisingly often also receiving additional attack boosts.
If there's ingame hyper offense and/or Fire types, Chansey can wear them down with Seismic Toss before Talonflame cleans up with Brave Bird.
When the match up is not favorable for either Metagross or Talonflame, I can U-Turn out to Dragonite and save Talonflame for late game.
If anyone is interested in trying this team then go ahead. The only problem might be getting a Wish Chansey which is quite rare these days. However I'd love to see people make variations of this team. You could try out something like Audino, Clefable, Togekiss, Sylveon, Vaporeon or Umbreon over Chansey, as they all learn Wish and Heal Bell. Other changes are welcome as well.
This streak is still active but I feel like taking a little break from Battle Maison for now. Thank you for reading and if you have any thoughts or questions, feel free to comment.
Have a nice day,
My name is Spade
For several months I've been working on creating the "perfect" team for Super Rotation Battles in ORAS. Now I have finally reached 1000 consecutive wins and so I thought to share my story with you.
Repeated Critical hits are a plague in Battle Maison and goal of this team was to make Crits a non-factor. I built a team of great individuals that compliment each others weaknesses defensively and offensively.
I love bulky offense and one my first ORAS teams consisted of Chansey, Dragonite(0Speed EVs), CM Mega Sableye and mixed Aegislash. This team lost when Walrein OHKO'd my entire team. Lack of speed was generally a problem though. I got me into trouble multiple times when one my slow mons would get outsped and critted while slowly setting up.
This old team tried too hard to be the answer to all the shenanigans in Battle Maison. I gotta have something to block Taunt, Leech seed, confusion and I gotta have a balance of physical and special attackers.
I threw those needs out of the window and made a team of only physical attackers. I liked the core Chansey and Dragonite so I kept it and modified them a little bit. Mega Metagross and Talonflame joined in this new and more aggressive team.
If I'm the one on the offense and I outspeed the opponent more often than I get outsped. That already decreases the chanses of my team getting critted and haxed in general. Another good way to minimize the hax is to run 100% accurate moves. It is such a relieve when you can count on your moves to land.
Even after a thousand battles I haven't found a way to read the AI. I have tried abusing level 1 Aron to little success. Super Rotation Battles are just extremely random. On some days the AI might make a bunch of great plays and seemingly predict me. On other days the AI is literally asking me to win. The AI does have weird fetish for speed control though and that is one of the reasons that saved me in battle 1000. I haven't personally noticed that the AI would learn and try counter team me. Sure the combination of your Pokemon does have an effect on which Pokemon you will and won't face. However I accept the fact that in a thousand battles I will simply run into bad team match ups every now and then.
Stat boosting arguably the best strategy in Super Rotation due to the mechanic where the two other sitting in the sidelines keep their stat changes. Due to the random nature in Super Rotation Battles and bulk of my team, I rarely have trouble getting free boosts.
This old team tried too hard to be the answer to all the shenanigans in Battle Maison. I gotta have something to block Taunt, Leech seed, confusion and I gotta have a balance of physical and special attackers.
I threw those needs out of the window and made a team of only physical attackers. I liked the core Chansey and Dragonite so I kept it and modified them a little bit. Mega Metagross and Talonflame joined in this new and more aggressive team.
If I'm the one on the offense and I outspeed the opponent more often than I get outsped. That already decreases the chanses of my team getting critted and haxed in general. Another good way to minimize the hax is to run 100% accurate moves. It is such a relieve when you can count on your moves to land.
Even after a thousand battles I haven't found a way to read the AI. I have tried abusing level 1 Aron to little success. Super Rotation Battles are just extremely random. On some days the AI might make a bunch of great plays and seemingly predict me. On other days the AI is literally asking me to win. The AI does have weird fetish for speed control though and that is one of the reasons that saved me in battle 1000. I haven't personally noticed that the AI would learn and try counter team me. Sure the combination of your Pokemon does have an effect on which Pokemon you will and won't face. However I accept the fact that in a thousand battles I will simply run into bad team match ups every now and then.
Stat boosting arguably the best strategy in Super Rotation due to the mechanic where the two other sitting in the sidelines keep their stat changes. Due to the random nature in Super Rotation Battles and bulk of my team, I rarely have trouble getting free boosts.
My team revolves around Wish support Chansey and bulky set up sweepers Dragonite and Mega Metagross. Talonflame is there hit to hard and fast. Dragonite appreciates multiple turns of set up, Mega Metagross needs one and Taloflame none.
Here's a video of my 1000th battle:
Here's a playlist to rest of the episodes if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdodkRT1-_BD8wsxAYGN2co-_Kr7S-b13
Team Breakdown:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
Chansey is the supporter that carries the team on its back. The EV spread maximizes Chansey's physical bulk and can be used to even recoil stall Head Smash Tyrantrum.
Wish keeps Chansey healthy in conjunction with Protect and also supports my two bulky set up sweepers in Mega Metagross and Dragonite. It's also nice for Talonflame's recoil moves so it can Brave Bird spam through entire teams.
Heal bell is there to cure status conditions that would otherwise cripple my team and it's a must have move with all the hax and secondary effects running around. Seismic Toss allows Chansey to dish out damage if need be and it allows me to stall Taunt turns without Struggling.
Metaman (Metagross-Mega) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Brick Break
Mega Metagross is a wall breaker, a true powerhouse. In most of my battles MM is the alpha and the omega. Metagross Mega Evolves on the first turn increasing its speed and other stats while setting up with Hone Claws. I never thought much of this boosting move in the competitive battle scene but it is perfect for the ingame's evasion abusers while making Metagross' dual STAB moves accurate to begin with.
I gave Metagross enough speed EVs to outspeed certain Infernapes and Magmortars after Mega evolving. Attack is maximised to destroy everything and the rest 100 EVs are thrown in HP to take hits better. Honestly this spread could be optimized better but it's still a solid spread taking advantage of Mega Metagross' great attributes.
Mega Metagross is a Pokemon that doesn't really care about resistances. After +1 attack and Tough Claws, Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt 2HKO most of the Battle Maison's Pokemon. Steel types are the only problem as most of them have naturally high defense so that's where Brick Break comes in.
Meteor Mash is good spammable move as it can raise attack by one stage. With Chansey's Wish support and Mega Metagross' insane natural bulk, it's hard to stop this monster.
Talonmies (Talonflame) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
Talonflame was the last Pokemon I picked for this team as I was originally going with bulky offensive mons. However I needed something that could hit hard and quickly right off the bat. Staraptor was my first choice but even Scarf or Band it didn't have a good balance of speed and power and that's why I picked Talonflame.
Talonflame is my ingame hyper offense check for Pokemon like Gengar, Alakazam, Pinsir, Breloom, Froslass, Darmanitan, Infernape etc OHKOing them with Brave Bird if they're not holding Focus Sash. Talonflame is also great for late game clean up if Mega Metagross gets to wear down the opposing team but is in the risk of getting knocked out by something faster than it.
Brave Bird is obviously THE move on Talonflame with Gale Wings ability. Flare Blitz is nice for Steel and Electric types. Aerial Ace is a filler move that can be useful against Double Team users and other evasion shenanigans like Bright Powder and Sand Veil. I thought about using Steel Wing but I don't want to be locked into weak a non STAB move which can miss. U-Turn is niche move.
I chose Adamant nature to max out Talonflame's attack. With Jolly nature I could outspeed Raikou and hit with Flare Blitz over BB. However as Brave Bird is the main attack so I'm sticking with Adamant. The Speed EVs are still needed though so I can make a quick escape with U-Turn if I have to.
In Rotation battles there is no mechanic to rotate and switch out. That's where U-Turn comes really handy. Whenever there's a bad team match up for both Talonflame and Mega Metagross i.e. Heatran, I can rotate into Talonflame and U-Turn out to Dragonite. This is a big reason why I chose Talonflame over Dragonite in the initial active line up of three Pokemon.
1NiteStand (Dragonite) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Protect
Dragon Dancing Dragonite requires multiple turns of set up in order to be effective which makes it susceptible to hax. However with Protect and Wish from Chansey I can abuse Multiscale to its full potential making a long term set up possible in most scenarios.
The only mons besides WALREIN that can one shot Dragonite through Multiscale are Rampardos and Tyrantrum with Head Smash (and Stone Edge crits). That's why I chose to run some speed EVs over attack to outspeed most variants without any DDs. With one DD I can also outspeed Terrakion, bar the Scarf one which I tend to face most often, sigh. I have max HP for the Multiscale abuse and rest are in attack for the added power.
Dragonite is a disgustingly good mon that can set up in the face of the fear thanks to its ability. Dragon Claw and EQ have good neutral coverage outside of Togekiss and Skarmory.
Swagger and confusion: Chansey is bulky enough to outstall confusion. If my attackers get confused though, I Wish with Chansey every other turn as a precaution until my mon snaps out of confusion.
Froslass: With Focus Sash, high speed and Destiny Bond this mon can cause trouble but most of the time Talonflame is able to deal with it.
Garchomp: There's a Focus Sash variant Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw and EQ. This is a perfect move set to deal with my team but so far Metagross and Talonflame have been able to deal with it. Chansey can also sponge a hit from it because I won't give it free boosts.
Heatran: A nuisance for Talonflame and Mega Metagross and so I usually U-Turn out to Dragonite to deal with it.
Infernape: Sashape has dual STAB moves that my Chansey and Metagross won't appreciate. Proceed with caution.
Gliscor: Focus Sash Counter set can knock something out if I'm not careful.
Cobalion: With high defense and Metal Burst, Cobalion has caught my Mega Metagross off guard a few times.
Terrakion: It has great dual STAB moves to dispose of my team. Talonflame can't OHKO it with BB but Metagross and Dragonite can take one CC and SE respectively.
Walrein: Walrein is meta, RNG god of all Pokemon. There's a set with Sheer Cold and Fissure that has become my nemesis. It just OHKO's everything because RNG. Mega Metagross might be able OHKO it with +1 Brick Break barring min damage roll.
Froslass: With Focus Sash, high speed and Destiny Bond this mon can cause trouble but most of the time Talonflame is able to deal with it.
Garchomp: There's a Focus Sash variant Swords Dance, Stone Edge, Dragon Claw and EQ. This is a perfect move set to deal with my team but so far Metagross and Talonflame have been able to deal with it. Chansey can also sponge a hit from it because I won't give it free boosts.
Heatran: A nuisance for Talonflame and Mega Metagross and so I usually U-Turn out to Dragonite to deal with it.
Infernape: Sashape has dual STAB moves that my Chansey and Metagross won't appreciate. Proceed with caution.
Gliscor: Focus Sash Counter set can knock something out if I'm not careful.
Cobalion: With high defense and Metal Burst, Cobalion has caught my Mega Metagross off guard a few times.
Terrakion: It has great dual STAB moves to dispose of my team. Talonflame can't OHKO it with BB but Metagross and Dragonite can take one CC and SE respectively.
Walrein: Walrein is meta, RNG god of all Pokemon. There's a set with Sheer Cold and Fissure that has become my nemesis. It just OHKO's everything because RNG. Mega Metagross might be able OHKO it with +1 Brick Break barring min damage roll.
I always have Chansey on the first active lead spot to avoid possible Intimidates. Most of my battles I start by rotating into Metagross. I Mega evolve it and set up with Hone Claws on the first turn and then proceed to Meteor Mash everything to oblivion, while surprisingly often also receiving additional attack boosts.
If there's ingame hyper offense and/or Fire types, Chansey can wear them down with Seismic Toss before Talonflame cleans up with Brave Bird.
When the match up is not favorable for either Metagross or Talonflame, I can U-Turn out to Dragonite and save Talonflame for late game.
If anyone is interested in trying this team then go ahead. The only problem might be getting a Wish Chansey which is quite rare these days. However I'd love to see people make variations of this team. You could try out something like Audino, Clefable, Togekiss, Sylveon, Vaporeon or Umbreon over Chansey, as they all learn Wish and Heal Bell. Other changes are welcome as well.
This streak is still active but I feel like taking a little break from Battle Maison for now. Thank you for reading and if you have any thoughts or questions, feel free to comment.
Have a nice day,
My name is Spade
Nice team, Spade. We have a difficulty, however. Although enforcement can be difficult, we do try to ban even "legal" hacks in our Maison record list. Most notably, a Wish Chansey team was previously banned for containing a Bold flawless Wish Chansey, as though such a Pokemon is technically possible, and indeed was long a staple of simulator battles, there is no evidence of any actual legit ones existing.
Here's the post by the previous Maison leader, Eppie, on the subject, and I think it best to maintain consistency with that position.
If people have strong opinions on this, by all means feel free to discuss and debate, but keep it polite and civil, please.
Here's the post by the previous Maison leader, Eppie, on the subject, and I think it best to maintain consistency with that position.
If people have strong opinions on this, by all means feel free to discuss and debate, but keep it polite and civil, please.
Hi, I have a few concerns about your sets.
Mega Metagross is EV'd to hit 150 Speed, outspeeding Magmortar4 and Infernape2. Howewer, there are a lot of Fire-type threats that faster than that, including Charizard4, Typhlosion4, Delphox4, Moltres3-4, Entei1, Houndoom4, Arcanine4, Rapidash4, Pyroar4 and Infernape4. What is the spread trying to accomplish by outspeeding Magmortar4 while still being slower than most Fire-types in the Maison? Jolly with maximum Speed would outspeed every Fire-type in the Maison aside from Talonflame4 and Choice Scarf users, and has had the most success in the Maison, most notably on NoCheese's 511-win Dragonite/Suicune/Meta Metagross team.
Aside from the EVs, how do you deal with the inaccuracy of Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt before using Hone Claws? After Hone Claws, they're sure to be accurate, but there are times when you don't want to set up and need to attack right away. For a Hone Claws set, the low Speed investment also decreases its sweeping potential due it outspeeding fewer foes. Even with a different set, I don't see Mega Metagross making it far in Rotations compared to Kangaskhan, Klefki, Scizor, and other staples - Hone Claws is not a great set-up move, it lacks recovery, it's slow before Mega Evolving, and loses out in damage to Kangaskhan and Garchomp with Outrage, for example.
Next up, Talonflame. I don't think Talonflame is reliable for long streaks in Rotations. In your #1000 video, it dies accomplishing nothing while using Brave Bird, which it will be doing a lot of the time thanks to the AI's unpredictable rotations and Talonflame's frailness.
Finally, Dragonite. Usually, it runs Outrage and Lum Berry in the Maison to be able to hit very hard right off the bat (which would have been useful in the #1000 video, for example) while being protected from status and self-inflicted confusion from Outrage. Unlike Mega Metagross and Talonflame, Dragonite is one of the best Pokémon in Rotations and has been used succesfully with various sets - but I don't think that Dragon Claw with Leftovers is a great set. Sacrificing Lum Berry not only loses out on Outrage's power, but also leaves it vulnerable to Confuse Ray/Swagger (which Heal Bell does not cure) and decreases its survivability against being frozen by Ice moves it would otherwise survive where Lum Berry would thaw it out. Cutting Attack heavily on top of skipping on Outrage decreases its damage even further - in your videos, Dragonite is hitting like a wet towel when it could be using Outrage and sweeping cleanly using a Lum set.
Howewer, I do like Wish Chansey - Wish passing has been succesful in Rotations, and with Chansey's superior bulk I could see it being the best Wish user in the mode and making a huge win streak. It goes well with Dragonite, too. But I don't think Talonflame and Mega Metagross have that kind of reliability - watching your videos, they don't seem to do too well in them, either. I don't believe that achieving 1000 wins in Rotations would be possible with your team.
But there is the small problem of legitimacy because of Wish Chansey being nearly impossible to obtain legitimately with good IVs and Nature. Personally, I don't feel strongly about prohibiting the use of "legal hacks" (though I do prefer legit Pokémon), but Wish Chansey being exclusively hacked results in a situation where players using hacks would gain an advantage over players who don't. I think legit hacks are only fair as long as players using legal Pokémon can also have access to them, which is not the case here. It would be a damn strong Pokémon, though, and I wouldn't mind seeing a big streak using one posted even if it does not qualify for the leaderboards.
Well that Weavile I just remembered is a Gen V native with Ice shard...so yeah I need to rebreed anyway as I want it to keep Ice Shard and not lose it for Protect. I'll settle with Pressure for the Maison one, and probably keep the other one for whatever I need it for.
so ive reached 324 wins so far in doubles battle maison. im on my phone so i wont make a pretty post, but heres my team:
charizard @ y
modest, super defensive EVs
heat wave
solarbeam
flamethrower
protect
landorus t @ scarf
adamant, max spe n atk
eq
rock slide
u turn
superpower
cresselia @ sitrus
modest, bulky offensive evs
hp ground
psychic
ice beam
thunder wave
conkeldurr @ assvest
adamant, guts, bulky offense evs
drain punch
mach punch
ice punch
knock off
basically despite me not having super explosive moves, i get to gang up on basically everything b/c the ai doesn't protect. i might update the post later for the ev info, but zard only has 4 spa evs. never missed the power, but the bulk has definitely saved me on multiple occasions. if mr. ai doesn't have stone edge, only zapdos and thundurus have been able to ohko my zard turn 1. flamethrower is also really good.
i'm pretty sure i've used variations of this team while climbing. the only different mons i remember using though are rotom-w (defensive and LO offensive) and scrafty. with rotom it was never as bulky or powerful as i'd like (also wow and hydro are annoying) and i ended up preferring mach punch over another intimidate. i also have hp ground on cress b/c i don't like the idea of a veteran's heatran or something walling half of my team. i could use something else in its place, but really cress is all psychic and ice beam. maybe thunder wave occasionally, but i have a bad habit of t-waving lums. t-wave>trick room because of landorus even tho zard and conks can make good use of it (zard can only outspeed +speed base 70 mons with the spread i'm using) guts>iron fist on conks b/c the ai likes to throw wows around, especially weezing, which is one of the mons i can't ko with heat wave+eq and is actually annoying.
heres some proof, lmk if u need more:
http://imgur.com/nLOygUu
charizard @ y
modest, super defensive EVs
heat wave
solarbeam
flamethrower
protect
landorus t @ scarf
adamant, max spe n atk
eq
rock slide
u turn
superpower
cresselia @ sitrus
modest, bulky offensive evs
hp ground
psychic
ice beam
thunder wave
conkeldurr @ assvest
adamant, guts, bulky offense evs
drain punch
mach punch
ice punch
knock off
basically despite me not having super explosive moves, i get to gang up on basically everything b/c the ai doesn't protect. i might update the post later for the ev info, but zard only has 4 spa evs. never missed the power, but the bulk has definitely saved me on multiple occasions. if mr. ai doesn't have stone edge, only zapdos and thundurus have been able to ohko my zard turn 1. flamethrower is also really good.
i'm pretty sure i've used variations of this team while climbing. the only different mons i remember using though are rotom-w (defensive and LO offensive) and scrafty. with rotom it was never as bulky or powerful as i'd like (also wow and hydro are annoying) and i ended up preferring mach punch over another intimidate. i also have hp ground on cress b/c i don't like the idea of a veteran's heatran or something walling half of my team. i could use something else in its place, but really cress is all psychic and ice beam. maybe thunder wave occasionally, but i have a bad habit of t-waving lums. t-wave>trick room because of landorus even tho zard and conks can make good use of it (zard can only outspeed +speed base 70 mons with the spread i'm using) guts>iron fist on conks b/c the ai likes to throw wows around, especially weezing, which is one of the mons i can't ko with heat wave+eq and is actually annoying.
heres some proof, lmk if u need more:
http://imgur.com/nLOygUu
Last edited:
That's 'cause they don't.
You know, after 1,000 battles - after getting to 1,000 battles - I would think this would be plenty obvious. If the AI truly counterteamed, you would have lost a long, long time ago. I'm not annoyed at you personally for saying that but it just reminds me how obnoxious, widespread, and untrue that claim is. The Maison is difficult and people often suck at teambuilding. That's not the Maison's fault. I wish this misconception would stop, I think the battle facility threads have proven a thousand times over that there simply is no such thing as counterteaming the way people think of it.
This however makes no damn sense no matter how you slice it. Your Pokémon will affect the AI's actions but it will not affect the actual teams they possess. After 1,000 battles, I'm sure you must have the proof to back up such a confident claim?
Quite the shake-up!
First, congrats to turskain on a great Doubles streak; sorry it fell a little short of the mark you were hoping for! Brilliantly crafted as always, though.
Regarding TheFlamingSpade 's streak, I'm not as convinced as turskain of it being impossible (though of course, it's not leaderboard eligible due to the presence of Wish Chansey). I do agree that I'd like Megagross to be a bit faster and for Dragonite to hit a bit harder, but I wouldn't underestimate the importance of just keeping them alive. Chansey can heal anything to 100% at any time, so long as they're not dead. I'm not convinced about Outrage being better than Dragon Claw in this circumstance; even with Multiscale broken, Nite is pretty hard to kill. The ability to pick your moves, Protect for more HP, and boost more seems like it could help a LOT. We're used to seeing the benefit of Lum Berry over Leftovers because we've all used Lum Berry, but I think Lefties synergizes better with Chansey when confusion is the only status you can't Heal Bell off (and you're not inflicting yourself with Outrage confusion). Talonflame definitely requires smart play, but a hard-hitter who can snipe dangerous opponents seems important. Even a bad rotation that results in Talonflame fainting means a "free switch" to Dragonite.
Obviously, this team is somewhat vulnerable to bad things happening, which will usually be rogue OHKOs and Fighting moves knocking out Chansey or MegaGross. Well-played, I think it could still easily lose at 150 wins to a non-ridiculous level of hax. But I think it's pretty solid, mostly because MegaGross is so damn hard to kill. I'd imagine it would be VERY rare for both Chansey and MegaGross to be at risk. And if MegaGross won't go down in one hit, the odds are high of Chansey throwing up a Wish, MegaGross setting up and taking the Wish on the next turn, and sweeping from there.
turskain certainly knows Rotations better than I do, but I still think it's hard to really know a team in a format like that until you play the team. I also think Rotations is such a high variance format, you can see things you might not expect. Usually, high variance works against the player, since the Sheer Cold is bound to hit you one of those times. But in Rotations, it gives the player more opportunities to come back, because the AI has lower odds of actually capitalizing on your "bad luck." I know that, when I played Rotations, some of my wins against Walrein were just me getting lucky as shit (not all of them were Gliscor stall-fests, and even those don't work if makes good rotations with common partners like Jynx or Cryogonal). I tried Rotations several times with my Chansey/Mega Venusaur/Cloyster/Gliscor team, and I never got as far as someone else got with the same team. And from the battle video of how they lost, I think that I probably played the team better than they did. It's just a high variance format; there are tons of ways you can think of where "oh, you would lose if these things happened," but those losing sequences of events are less likely to happen than they are in any other format. On paper, I think Chansey/Mega Metagross/Talonflame/Dragonite is better than my best Rotations team. I won't say that I'm 100% sure that TheFlamingSpade's streak is legit, but I personally don't feel a strong reason to doubt it at the moment. My first instinct was to think "that's BS," particularly given his apparent lack of knowledge about what sets actually appear. But looking at the videos on YouTube, it seems less impossible to me than it did at first. Maybe I'm just out of touch with how hard Rotations really is, though. turskain, you could try playing the team yourself and see what you think, if you can get your hands on a hacked Wish Chansey. Maybe that's "beneath you" or wouldn't feel like a good use of your time and talents, but I'd still love to see it :)
As I said, no way is this streak leaderboard eligible. But barring evidence that it's not possible, I still think it's quite impressive.
First, congrats to turskain on a great Doubles streak; sorry it fell a little short of the mark you were hoping for! Brilliantly crafted as always, though.
Regarding TheFlamingSpade 's streak, I'm not as convinced as turskain of it being impossible (though of course, it's not leaderboard eligible due to the presence of Wish Chansey). I do agree that I'd like Megagross to be a bit faster and for Dragonite to hit a bit harder, but I wouldn't underestimate the importance of just keeping them alive. Chansey can heal anything to 100% at any time, so long as they're not dead. I'm not convinced about Outrage being better than Dragon Claw in this circumstance; even with Multiscale broken, Nite is pretty hard to kill. The ability to pick your moves, Protect for more HP, and boost more seems like it could help a LOT. We're used to seeing the benefit of Lum Berry over Leftovers because we've all used Lum Berry, but I think Lefties synergizes better with Chansey when confusion is the only status you can't Heal Bell off (and you're not inflicting yourself with Outrage confusion). Talonflame definitely requires smart play, but a hard-hitter who can snipe dangerous opponents seems important. Even a bad rotation that results in Talonflame fainting means a "free switch" to Dragonite.
Obviously, this team is somewhat vulnerable to bad things happening, which will usually be rogue OHKOs and Fighting moves knocking out Chansey or MegaGross. Well-played, I think it could still easily lose at 150 wins to a non-ridiculous level of hax. But I think it's pretty solid, mostly because MegaGross is so damn hard to kill. I'd imagine it would be VERY rare for both Chansey and MegaGross to be at risk. And if MegaGross won't go down in one hit, the odds are high of Chansey throwing up a Wish, MegaGross setting up and taking the Wish on the next turn, and sweeping from there.
turskain certainly knows Rotations better than I do, but I still think it's hard to really know a team in a format like that until you play the team. I also think Rotations is such a high variance format, you can see things you might not expect. Usually, high variance works against the player, since the Sheer Cold is bound to hit you one of those times. But in Rotations, it gives the player more opportunities to come back, because the AI has lower odds of actually capitalizing on your "bad luck." I know that, when I played Rotations, some of my wins against Walrein were just me getting lucky as shit (not all of them were Gliscor stall-fests, and even those don't work if makes good rotations with common partners like Jynx or Cryogonal). I tried Rotations several times with my Chansey/Mega Venusaur/Cloyster/Gliscor team, and I never got as far as someone else got with the same team. And from the battle video of how they lost, I think that I probably played the team better than they did. It's just a high variance format; there are tons of ways you can think of where "oh, you would lose if these things happened," but those losing sequences of events are less likely to happen than they are in any other format. On paper, I think Chansey/Mega Metagross/Talonflame/Dragonite is better than my best Rotations team. I won't say that I'm 100% sure that TheFlamingSpade's streak is legit, but I personally don't feel a strong reason to doubt it at the moment. My first instinct was to think "that's BS," particularly given his apparent lack of knowledge about what sets actually appear. But looking at the videos on YouTube, it seems less impossible to me than it did at first. Maybe I'm just out of touch with how hard Rotations really is, though. turskain, you could try playing the team yourself and see what you think, if you can get your hands on a hacked Wish Chansey. Maybe that's "beneath you" or wouldn't feel like a good use of your time and talents, but I'd still love to see it :)
As I said, no way is this streak leaderboard eligible. But barring evidence that it's not possible, I still think it's quite impressive.
There are enough people out there with multiple 3DSes that keep one unupgraded specifically for the purpose of using the PKHex QR exploit, so one can easily obtain a flawless Wish Chansey if one asks a trade community for one. But I don't think it's worth field testing a team that's already not going to be accepted.
Hey guys! 1st post for me on here, For the 1st time for me I've managed to beat the #50 battle and am currently on #71 on Super Doubles and #61 on Super Triples (Both streaks are still on going, not expecting to be on the leaderboard just yet, but I'm aiming for it), I'm somewhat new to breeding and the maison and thought i'd share my teams I used for anyone else to get ideas with who don't have access to spawned pokemon like me. (Note: I don't have all the replays as proof due to misclicks or getting ahead of myself starting the next battle, but I do have the #50 super doubles: K6GG-WWWW-WW2L-L795, I have considered planning to reset these streaks just to get the replays but not sure if its worth the effort (might have bad luck and do it anyway haha)). My goal now is to work on the singles or AI partner battles.
My goal was to use non-legendary pokemon, anything I can breed only, or get access to easily (Hidden abilities are tricky to trade off other players or the GTS, but is possible and helps in future breeding (speaking off if anyone is after certain breeding pokemon I am happy to share some of the offspring) (all of mine are legit pokemon). I have had a bit of trial and error but this current team is working out very well for me. (I have had some losses but mostly down to bad luck sometimes :c).
For anyone interested let me know and I can make a future post and I can list some of my slightly crazy attempts and what setups I tried to use haha.
I am aware of some of the flaws in the team but I am open to constructive critism which might provide interesting points of view I could have overlooked. But I just wanted to submit my method for anyone who reads this looking for ideas. If anyone wants more details i'll be happy to respond. Appologies on the wall of text!
My goal was to use non-legendary pokemon, anything I can breed only, or get access to easily (Hidden abilities are tricky to trade off other players or the GTS, but is possible and helps in future breeding (speaking off if anyone is after certain breeding pokemon I am happy to share some of the offspring) (all of mine are legit pokemon). I have had a bit of trial and error but this current team is working out very well for me. (I have had some losses but mostly down to bad luck sometimes :c).
For anyone interested let me know and I can make a future post and I can list some of my slightly crazy attempts and what setups I tried to use haha.
For doubles I have tried multiple approaches to the maison based around VGC, however the AI are not players so its not as effective...
I have tried teams based around (to varying success):
I have tried teams based around (to varying success):
- Redirection (Togekiss)
- Extreme crowd control (Triple fake out)
- Setup hazards (Sticky Web/Stealth Rocks)
- Sweep Setups (Togekiss + Belly Drum Hariyama/Shell Smash Cloyster)
- Speed control (T-Wave/Sleep)
- High Speed Pokemon (Ended up shut down by trick rooms if I fail to prevent)
- Priority (Suckerpunch etc)
- Meta (Kang etc)
- Non-Meta/Favourites (Jolteon/Chandelure/Starmie/Full cleric Blissey)
- Cheese (Weavile is weak to fighting/fire, switch to Chandelure to negate all damage)
- AOE (Mega Gardevoir)
- Pure Bulk (Mega Venusar/Mega Aggron/Blissey)
This team you could call extremely meta but after a few games it synergised extremely well. The only complaint I have about it was that there is no coverage for water types, especially the bulky pokemon the maison likes (such as Wailord or Walrein(*grumbles at 100% accuracy fissure lax incense*))
I originally had protect on every party member but realised after having a team thats extremely fast I could discard it and give myself more potential which worked out extremely well, I kept protect on Talonflame to allow some cheese plays like getting low from recoil/life orb, and protecting predicting a guarrentied aggro magnet for a free turn of damage/setup.
Big Mama (Kangaskhan-Mega) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Taunt
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Arrow (Talonflame) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Strider (Greninja) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
My lead is a double fake out Kangaskhan/Weavile combo which allows me to cheese the AI by allowing me 3 free options, break all potential focus sash's, get the STAB double fake out from Kangaskhan onto something to allow Weavile to finish it the following turn, or allow 1 fakeout to be applied from either and get a free 1st turn advantage or taunt off. Following that this lead can decimate most of the maison, Weavile is basically an offensive support/fodder/aggro magnet which also is key for shutting down trick room users and allowing this speed team to demolish everything, failing the trick room getting up there is priority to still fight 1st, the Greninja/Talonflame are for coverage, speed and clean up. Talonflame carres will-o-wisp to shut down any physical threats and to survive a rockslide which was originally taunt but I found will-o-wisp has more uses especially with Weavile on the team. I only wish I could fit a grass or electric move on but in general its a 2 or 3 hit ko all round. This team got me to #50 quite easily!
I originally had protect on every party member but realised after having a team thats extremely fast I could discard it and give myself more potential which worked out extremely well, I kept protect on Talonflame to allow some cheese plays like getting low from recoil/life orb, and protecting predicting a guarrentied aggro magnet for a free turn of damage/setup.
Big Mama (Kangaskhan-Mega) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Taunt
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Arrow (Talonflame) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Strider (Greninja) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
My lead is a double fake out Kangaskhan/Weavile combo which allows me to cheese the AI by allowing me 3 free options, break all potential focus sash's, get the STAB double fake out from Kangaskhan onto something to allow Weavile to finish it the following turn, or allow 1 fakeout to be applied from either and get a free 1st turn advantage or taunt off. Following that this lead can decimate most of the maison, Weavile is basically an offensive support/fodder/aggro magnet which also is key for shutting down trick room users and allowing this speed team to demolish everything, failing the trick room getting up there is priority to still fight 1st, the Greninja/Talonflame are for coverage, speed and clean up. Talonflame carres will-o-wisp to shut down any physical threats and to survive a rockslide which was originally taunt but I found will-o-wisp has more uses especially with Weavile on the team. I only wish I could fit a grass or electric move on but in general its a 2 or 3 hit ko all round. This team got me to #50 quite easily!
I found triples to be considerably easier than doubles by using multiple strategies at once as described in the section above. I started and got to #50 using a team which was then modified to include some of the doubles team to allow for better games. I am considering changing it again to see if I can make any other better combos as I type this.
This teams success is based around turn 1, it works by cheesing the AI in 3 ways and allowing me to (sometimes) get a 3OHKO advantage in 1 turn.
(Explained at the bottom)
SuchTogeWow (Togekiss) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect
- Follow Me
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Susie (Gardevoir-Mega) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Axe (Bisharp) (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
IVs:31/31/31/31/31/31
Lumiere (Chandelure) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Salad (Venusaur) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
TURN 1:
Open with Togekiss (Left) Mega-Gardevoir (Center) and Weavile (Right).
Togekiss uses redirect (stops middle from getting a x4 fighting move onto weavile, also x4 resisted).
Gardevoir 120 base STAB + Pixilate (+ Super Effective + potential crit) + max SpAtk IV/EV's Hyper voice says it all really.
Weavile does multiple things, fake out the Right slot and protect itself/gardevoir, taunt/knockoff where applicable, or hardswitch into Chandelure and avoid/negate fire and fighting moves (since both will 100% not target the next slot being gardevoir compared to a super effective Weavile slot).
From there its basically clean up if the other pokemon even get used at all.
The Venusaur used is meant to be for Mega hence its weird EV's but it did its job.
(Explained at the bottom)
SuchTogeWow (Togekiss) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect
- Follow Me
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Susie (Gardevoir-Mega) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Axe (Bisharp) (F) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
IVs:31/31/31/31/31/31
Lumiere (Chandelure) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Salad (Venusaur) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
TURN 1:
Open with Togekiss (Left) Mega-Gardevoir (Center) and Weavile (Right).
Togekiss uses redirect (stops middle from getting a x4 fighting move onto weavile, also x4 resisted).
Gardevoir 120 base STAB + Pixilate (+ Super Effective + potential crit) + max SpAtk IV/EV's Hyper voice says it all really.
Weavile does multiple things, fake out the Right slot and protect itself/gardevoir, taunt/knockoff where applicable, or hardswitch into Chandelure and avoid/negate fire and fighting moves (since both will 100% not target the next slot being gardevoir compared to a super effective Weavile slot).
From there its basically clean up if the other pokemon even get used at all.
The Venusaur used is meant to be for Mega hence its weird EV's but it did its job.
This contains the same principle/turn 1 setup as the team which got me to #50 but with a more reliable clean up squad that doesn't fail as much. I prefer the Focus Sash on the Weavile instead of the Bisharp because Weavile makes fun and reliable aggro fodder and goes down fighting to still be useful in more ways that a sucker punch would do from Bisharp.
You might not like the idea of a double x4 Fighting Weakness but the team supports endless coverage for each others weaknesses and it works in sync stupidly well which is why I'm sharing it.
Such Toge (Togekiss) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect
- Follow Me
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Susie (Gardevoir-Mega) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Axe (Bisharp) (F) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
IVs:31/31/31/31/31/31
Arrow (Talonflame) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Strider (Greninja) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
You might not like the idea of a double x4 Fighting Weakness but the team supports endless coverage for each others weaknesses and it works in sync stupidly well which is why I'm sharing it.
Such Toge (Togekiss) (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect
- Follow Me
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Susie (Gardevoir-Mega) (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
Scratch (Weavile) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Fake Out
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Axe (Bisharp) (F) @ Quick Claw
Ability: Defiant
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break
IVs:31/31/31/31/31/31
Arrow (Talonflame) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/31
Strider (Greninja) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse
IVs:31/x/31/31/31/31
I am aware of some of the flaws in the team but I am open to constructive critism which might provide interesting points of view I could have overlooked. But I just wanted to submit my method for anyone who reads this looking for ideas. If anyone wants more details i'll be happy to respond. Appologies on the wall of text!
Hah, funnily enough, I was theorymonning Prankster Eviolite Bold Murkrow with a similar set; I was going to use Feather Dance instead of Flash, to really disable all angle s of attack.
One thing I don't understand about the Klefki in the Mastering the Maison article, though: Why Dazzling Gleam over Draining Kiss? Losing 30 BP but gaining a dedicated heal on a CM Poke seems like a solid trade, and it'd allow an item other than leftovers.
But hell, what do I know, I can't seem to get over 100 wins before losing to bad decisions and getting bored with the Maison.
Beause Klefki is already weak to the point that it can only 2HKO neutral targets at +5 or +6 with Dazzing Gleam (+6 Draining Kiss wouldn't even be guaranteed to OHKO a Terrakion or non-Multiscale Dragonite) and the only way it can get to that point is by using Leftovers, Sub, and Protect to maximize the number of opportunities for the AI to rotate in and use an ineffective attack on Klefki. A full Klefki sweep is actually pretty rare; even in the battles where that's possible it's often a much quicker path to victory to set up something like Dragonite once Klefki's stalled out something's Blizzard PP or softened a crucial target with +1/+2 Dazzling Gleam.
Last edited: