Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

[Seventy]

I'm here to nominate Camerupt-Mega to C rank. As many of my friends know, I was obsessed with this pokemon for a few weeks and made over 25 teams featuring it. After extensive testing I've determined that Camerupt is definitely a c rank pokemon. It's not an easy mon to use but when used correctly it can absolutely demolish certain teams.

Long thing about Camerupt incoming:

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Since many people don't really know what Camerupt is capable of, here's an explanation of what I've used and how exactly Camerupt works:
During my testing I used a few different sorts of Camerupt, all of which I found to be effective in different ways. A mixed defensive Camerupt with 3 attacks and stealth rock hard counters ou's electric types, non cm clef, non cm sableye, jirachi, klefki, zapdos,ferrothorn, bulky scizor, bulky talonflame, and can take a hit from sd talon or offensive sd scizor and OHKO back. Roar is also an option to beat cm clefable while willowisp can annoy switchins like Lati@s, Tornadus-T and Gyarados. Offensive speedy Camerupt can function similarly yet punishes switchins even harder with its attacks. Just try to name a pokemon used on balance that takes less than 50% from Camerupt not named Lati@s or Gyarados. Because of its speed, Camerupt can also be extremely effective on trick room, easily sweeping once its few counters are weakened. Camerupt can also be used on stall, though I haven't experimented much with this.

Here's a pastebin of a few different camerupt sets, along with calcs explaining the evs: http://pastebin.com/ezj7iiNP

Some more calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Mega Camerupt: 106-125 (30.8 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Mega Camerupt: 290-342 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Raikou Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 92 SpD Mega Camerupt: 71-84 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Some offensive Camerupt calcs:

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-T: 204-240 (61.4 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 127-150 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Sheer Force Mega Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 247-292 (76.4 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

And here's some replays of Camerupt putting in work:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-257702232 here's an example of a team that's extremely vulnerable to Camerupt being pressured by it throughout the match.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-257990200 this one shows how much of a liability Camerupt's speed can be, especially vs things like u-turn Mega Scizor. However, Camerupt still managed to get multiple kills, allowing the rest of my team to win.

I wish I had saved more replays, but I've played lots of games similar to these.

So this is why Camerupt can be a "good" pokemon in ou, and I think it's really one that I think nobody's really given much of a chance. I'm not even sure if it's been discussed in this thread since the release of ORAS. I would certainly say it is as good if not better than quite a few pokemon in c rank, such as krookodile, cofagrigus, banette, and gourgeist. As far as the metagame goes, thunder wave is everywhere these days, making ground types nearly essential on every team. However, unlike the rest of the ground types, camerupt can switch in on thunder wave and actually stand a chance against clefable (assuming it doesnt predict and cm). It has a clear niche over bulky fire types like heatran or zardx because of its more effective handling of electric types, which cannot gain momentum on Camerupt and are seemingly less prepared for recently with the rise of garchomp. Also, the fact that it is one of the best pokemon to use on trick room should mean something, right?

edit: thanks gamer boy

 

[Agent Gibbs]

So this is why Camerupt can be a "good" pokemon in ou, and I think it's really one that I think nobody's really given much of a chance. I'm not even sure if it's been discussed in this thread since the release of ORAS.

Nah, it's definitely been discussed since ORAS began. In fact, when we first started ranking ORAS Megas, Mega Camerupt was ridiculously overhyped. It was B Rank at one point, and there were actually a couple of people pushing so far as to raise it to B+. The fact that it is C- right now is actually due to a lot of discussion and consensus that it needed to continue dropping rather than outright neglect.

That said, I wouldn't exactly be up in arms over a raise to C Rank. I'm not a huge fan of Mega Camerupt myself, and anyone who's seen me post about it knows why, but C isn't a huge deal in my eyes lol. If nothing else, I wouldn't mind putting it on the level of Mega Absol and Mega Banette. Just thought I'd mention that it has been discussed at length before, just so ya know.

 

[Seventy]

I'm not a huge fan of Mega Camerupt myself, and anyone who's seen me post about it knows why, but C isn't a huge deal in my eyes lol. If nothing else, I wouldn't mind putting it on the level of Mega Absol and Mega Banette.

Thanks for telling me, I haven't exactly been an active follower of this thread. I haven't seen you post about it, would you mind elaborating on why you aren't a fan?

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Thanks for telling me, I haven't exactly been an active follower of this thread. I haven't seen you post about it, would you mind elaborating on why you aren't a fan?

Sure, but in the spirit of laziness (and I'm about to leave for a football game, so I'm short on time anyway), I'll just copy and paste something I wrote way back in the day when ORAS first came out.

Look, I really like Mega Camerupt, but I also think it's being overplayed a lot in this thread. I get that this thing hits like a semi, but you need a lot more than raw power to really succeed in OU. One cool perk about Mega Camerupt's bulk and defensive typing is that it lets Camerupt check the Electrics, which is cool, but besides that and obvious stuff like defensive Grass-types, it doesn't switch easily into much else. It has a great Fire resistance, but it can't safely switch into Charizard Y for fear of a 2HKO from Fire Blast (almost guaranteed with Modest or Timid + SR), Heatran for fear of Earth Power, or Talonflame for how hard Brave Bird hits. Fairy resistance is great, but Mega Gardevoir's Psyshock 2HKOs after Stealth Rock while Fire Blast can't OHKO back, Calm Mind Clefable just uses you as setup bait, and Azumarill obviously obliterates Camerupt. It also has no form of recovery, which hinders its ability to take hits over longer periods of time, and it's bulk isn't even thatamazing. It's only about as bulky as Keldeo on the special side and slightly less bulky on the physical side, which is good but not amazing.

The really low base speed is a very legitimate problem as well. Solid bulk will only take you so far when you're pretty much forced to always take a hit before actually being able to retaliate. While something like Landorus or Greninja may not be able to take a hit nearly as well as Mega Camerupt, it still has a better shot at actually surviving longer if it can outspeed and KO opponents before they have a chance to hit it rather than having to tank hits before even getting the chance to move. I get that such a low speed stat can be good for Trick Room, but if Trick Room was relevant enough to make a Pokemon really viable, then Mega Abomasnow would at least be ranked in the viability ranking thread, lol.

The other big thing I think that really hurts Mega Camerupt is simply the fact that it's a Mega Pokemon. Face it, with all the new Mega forms that arrived in ORAS, the competition for a Mega slot is tougher than ever. While Mega Camerupt can switch into Electrics really well and hit super hard, there are other Mega Pokemon that can do one or both of those things as well while also offering other substantial perks of their own. For example, Mega Charizard X can also check Electrics decently enough while having an even more powerful nuke in Flare Blitz, better neutral coverage between its STABs, better physical bulk, real speed, and reliable recovery to make up for the lower special bulk and to give it significantly greater longevity. It can also take on things like Bisharp, defensive Mew, and Mega Scizor more effectively thanks to the aforementioned greater physical bulk and speed, not to mention that its double Fire resistance makes it better against Charizard Y.

In its own right, Mega Camerupt is a pretty cool Pokemon, but there's just not a ton of incentive for me to use it over other Mega Pokemon unless I just really wanted to use Mega Camerupt. Hitting really hard and checking Electrics is great and all, but when I can do the same thing with Mega Charizard X or do similar things with other Mega forms along with a number of other advantages, I'm probably going to go with them.

Keep in mind that this was written way back in the early days of ORAS, so some of the examples are outdated, but I think it still holds mostly true. Also keep in mind that this was written during a time where Mega Camerupt was hyped up too much, so if the criticism sounds a little too heavy, just remember that it was done so intentionally for rhetorical purposes. I think the criticism of Mega Camerupt laid out above (and by many other people in the past; you could probably find plenty of discussion if you search for "Camerupt" in the current and past VR threads) is still acceptable for a Pokemon in C or so. Just don't nominate it for B again or something haha.

 

[Tainic]

I would actually like to nom Mega Ampharos for B- rank (idk if this has been mentioned or not, so sorry if it has). Albeit it's slow, it has the bulk to take a few neutral hits and get off a slow volt-switch, giving your team momentum to set up and potentially win or to get rid of hazards etc. The Rest-Talk set coupled with its unique typing allows me to pivot into pokemon such as choice locked Keldeo, Talonflame and flying types in general (except for Mega-Pinsir and Gyarados with EQ), manaphy without Ice Beam (which I have noticed has become less common, they're using psychic or HP Fire more to smack mega venusaur and ferrothorn/scizor, respectively), and chansey to absorb status moves which it can rest off. It can also run an agility set to capitalize on its offensive presence, with thunderbolt, Dragon Pulse, and HP Ice, which I feel is nice as well, but the rest talk set is better as it can pivot into mons better.

Edit: S/O to Flygonial for saying this, but this thing is one of if not the best counter to torn-t, which has become really common (I love using it as well).

This so much, I made a post like half a year ago explaining how good that thing is, it can soak up a surprising amount of stuff, and the array of threats he blocks differs widely depending on the set he's running : Physically Defensive RestTalk is a good answer to stuff like Keldeo (Who can't do shit with scald.), Bisharp, non-EQ Gyarados, Lopunny, Talonflame, Tornadus-T, Thundurus to name a few while Specially Defensive RestTalk is a good blanket check to Heatran, Zard Y (Having a GOOD and RELIABLE answer to Zard Y is a huge niche, really.), Volcarona, most Specially Based Water types (Starmie, Manaphy lacking Ice Beam and Rotom W, for example.), Electric Types, Serperior to name a few again, it'll usually run RestTalk + Volt Switch or TB depending of your needs (You may even run Discharge.) + Dragon Pulse or a support move such as Thunder Wave or Heal Bell. But it can also run the aforementioned Agility Set, imo it's overall less useful than RestTalk sets who are really good pivots, but it remains good, thanks to its absurd power, its barely good enough speed after an Agility Boost, its decent bulk and the fact that it retains a surprise factor that can turn the tides most often than not.

Of course, it's not perfect at all : Its offensive movepool is pmuch limited to his STABs, Focus Blast, Hidden Power (Which he doesnt really need.), Power Gem, Agility and Charged Shot shenanigans and that's pmuch all. The fact that he struggles a lot against Fairy/Ground cores makes him forced to have an appropriate partner : It's been since XY Release that I've been playing a Rain Team using an Ampharos + Azumarill core, and it works really well, a powerful Water Type Wallbreaker should do the trick. (Either Manaphy, Azumarill or maybe Keldeo.) I entirely support a rise to B- or B, and believe it should have been done a long time ago.

 

[TPP]

After looking through the C+ to D rankings, I think one mon that's underestimated is regular Sableye. It's a mon that can drive people nuts with it's support moves, and it's a really nice support mon to have. Priority burning and priority taunting can be really useful against many physical threats such as Mega Scizor and Mega Altaria. Klefki doesn't get Taunt nor Will o Wisp, so it's one of the few advantages Sableye has over it. Sableye is also one of the few ghost types we have in OU, being the only spinblocker besides Gengar and Hoopa, both of which can't afford to switch into much if anything. In a meta with stealth rock and hazard stacking everywhere, it's really nice to have a spin blocker to help maintain hazards, as they (the hazards) can wear down multiple mons, including those threats that lack recovery such as Weavile and Mega Metagross. Another great part of Sableye, is it's ability to have priority recovery. That recovery is what keeps it in the game and unlike Klefki, Sableye's recovery allows it to remain a good support mon throughout a game without getting worn down quickly. Don't forget that it also gets a great stab move with Knock Off, allowing it to add on in it's role as a support mon. Overall I think Sableye's potential and abilities are really underestimated, especially when compared to the other mons in the D Rank. With a ton of support moves with priority at it's side, it's any physical mon's (that isn't a fire type or is immune to burn) greatest nightmare to face. Obviously with fairies, namely Clefable running around everywhere, Sableye is gonna have some trouble performing its role, but against teams without Clefable or a cleric, such as more offensive or HO teams, Sableye should be able to perform its role well. Regular Sableye to C-

If you want to see a good team utilizing regular Sableye, here's a really nice RMT by FlamingVictini:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...standard-semistall-peaked-1-w-90-gxe.3546498/

If I missed out on anything, or if anything I said was incorrect, then please let me know, thanks.

 

[Srn]

Looking thru the lower rankings i see kyurem.
Well many think its outclassed by kyu-b but there are two things it does better: Subroost and Specs.

Sub roost is pretty underrated but take a typical stall team and think about it. Quagsire/mega venu/skarm/chans/2 filler from mandi, reuni, suicune, talon, toge, gliscor, etc etc. None of those can really break kyurem.
I mean yes, chansey walls it to hell and back unless you get 6 sp def drops from earth power but the point is that even chansey will run out of seismic tosses before it can even touch you.
The same goes for pretty much every other stall mon. The only thing stall can do to really get past it is set up with a CM'er like suicune, slowbro, reuni, clef, mlati, etc. So if you have a way to get past those such as haze, perish song celebi, encore toed, or just lots of physical pressure, then you're pretty much set against every stall build.
There are a few other pokemon that may trouble you, such as megazor, sdef char-y, and defensive mega garde, but for the most part kyurem just walls stall.

The best part is that it blends right into balance; there's no extravagant cb mon or short-lived SD user you have to preserve to have a shot at breaking stall, and you don't need to get rid of that pesky amoongus to let your suicune/clef break either. Kyurem pulls its weight better than people think vs stall.

And specs
the main advantage this set has over kyurem-b is your super strong draco meteor. There's a lot less prediction involved and people tend not to expect an hp fire from kyurem either. Tbf the draco doesn't actually help with TOO much but draco will break some of special LO kyu-b's counters like mew and mega slowbro.

tl; dr it puts a lot more consistent pressure on stall than anything in C+ move it up.

 

[AM]

PSA

TDK and Henry are running the thread in terms of its ranking team as of right now and who they want to add in to team in future since they've been on point with keeping stuff up to date, getting discussion going with team, and maintaining relevancy.

 

[Josh]

PSA

TDK and Henry are running the thread in terms of its ranking team as of right now and who they want to add in to team in future since they've been on point with keeping stuff up to date, getting discussion going with team, and maintaining relevancy.

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The OP still has 4 other members listed besides TDK and Henry, are those 4 being removed/replaced?

 

[AM]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The OP still has 4 other members listed besides TDK and Henry, are those 4 being removed/replaced?

No TDK and Henry lead the team now. There's generally someone who runs the thread / leads the team alongside them being on team, then the other ranking guys.

 

[skies]

Unranked ---> C- Rank

Galvantula is an underrated monster. Now don't get me wrong, it's really not /that/ great, but I'm just finding myself using it more and more and realizing its potential. Let me preface this post with something you're all thinking: Sticky Web. No, you don't use Galvantula for Sticky Web, you use it for all of its other useful qualities; Sticky Web is just a nice perk it has. I've been running LO with Bug Buzz / Thunder / Sticky Web / Energy Ball to great effect. Due to Compound Eyes, Galvantula can afford to run Thunder, versus Thunderbolt. Here's an example of its power difference:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 193-228 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 191-226 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is with 91% accuracy, mind you. The secondary STAB, Bug Buzz is actually quite useful. Hitting the likes of Latias, Hoopa-Unbound, and Tyrantiar for solid damage. Bug Buzz even 2HKOes Tyranitar, so that's pretty cool if you ask me! Galvantula's role in the metagame is finding its way onto offensively orientated teams as an Electric-type attacker with a few unique perks. Sticky Web is, honestly, not that amazing in the current metagame, but it has its select uses and if your team can capitalize that, then you're in good hands.

However, Galvantula has some glaring flaws. Most notable its weaknesses, Stealth Rock being a problem, and how overall lackluster it truly is. Sticky Web is great and all, but removing it and even avoiding it is way too easy. It faces insane competition for a teamslot, and it's overall hard to justify using. Although it does have one of the most powerful Electric-type attacks, it also does not have perfect accuracy, nor does it work well versus Mega Charizard Y (Sun cuts Thunder's accuracy by a lot). It's very high risk, high reward as a Pokemon. The flaws it have should not be over-exaggerated, but I also can't underestimate them. Despite its numerous flaws, I feel that Galvantula has enough perks, a distinct niche in the current metagame, and the overall effectiveness to be ranked. C- Rank is where I would personally place it, but I can also see arguments for D Rank.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-264673855 - Versus bludz that shows Sticky Web being useful because Weavile is able to be outsped by Mega Pidgeot and KOed. Ended up sacking it on accident, but still showed it putting some work in.

I'm still testing and improving this team, but it showcases some underrated threats (namely Galvantula, Mega Pidgeot, and Sylveon.) that I have been quite liking. Maybe I'll make a post for Sylveon soon, but for now, I'd like to see Galvantula ranked.

Will provide more replays soon, I have to leave now and couldn't complete getting them. Hopefully one will demonstrate it a bit!

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

Oh sweet we can nominate lower rank stuff now

I'd like to nominate

to move from unranked to D rank

So I was determined to make a cool Mega Camerupt team after reading 75's post, and so obviously making a TR team popped up into my mind. So I settled and built a standard cookie cutter TR team and it was decent I guess, but I wasn't having any real success with it. I had 3 TR mons and 3 TR hard hitting abusers so it was incredibly match up based and sometimes I got destroyed simply because I had so few turns of TR or sometimes I couldn't even set it up properly. So I ditched this team but I still wanted to make a mega camerupt team, so I tried making a semi TR team, which was more successful to me by far. Only having 2 TR abusers with two TR setters that still have valuable utility outside of setting TR, plus other solid mons in general gave me much more room to counterplay the opponent and it has done pretty well in all of my battles with it.

However this post isnt to discuss the awesome semi TR playstyle obviously, its to discuss all the merits and niche regular Diancie has. It has much more considerable bulk compared to its mega counterpart, and so is able to switch in on more mons and can set up SR and TR reliably. The number of things Diancie can switch into reliably include Tornadus-t, tflame, zard-x, weavile, hawlucha, latis, electrics, etc. It can then provide utility for your team by setting up rocks or TR. It is actually a very good stealth rocker, capable of threatening mega sableye out with moonblast and the primary defoggers (latis) lose to it 1 v 1. It also prevents togekiss from defogging, so you can beat those horrendous shedinja/sab/togekiss stall teams.

Diancie is relatively bulky as well. With a spread of 252 HP | 88 def | 168 spdef relaxed, Diancie is able to wall many threats and prevent itself from being dead weight with TR, SR, or even with its fairly good coverage of moonblast + diamond storm. Some calcs if you're interested:

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 129-153 (42.4 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
76 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 73-87 (24 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 103-122 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Diancie is even capable of taking super effective hits:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Diancie: 192-226 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Diancie: 198-234 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And i know its probably the norm here to provide replays if you're supporting an unranked pokemon to rise up the ranks so here are two of my latest games where Diancie does work coming in numerous times during the match to take a hit, set up rocks, set up TR, attack back with moonblast/diamond storm:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-264742651
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-264745907

Diancie spread i use which i feel is the most effective in the metagame atm (sr + tr + explosion is complete ass imo):

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP | 88 Def | 168 SpDef
Relaxed nature
- Stealth Rock
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm

 

[Dratios]

Unranked ---> C- Rank

Galvantula is an underrated monster. Now don't get me wrong, it's really not /that/ great, but I'm just finding myself using it more and more and realizing its potential. Let me preface this post with something you're all thinking: Sticky Web. No, you don't use Galvantula for Sticky Web, you use it for all of its other useful qualities; Sticky Web is just a nice perk it has. I've been running LO with Bug Buzz / Thunder / Sticky Web / Energy Ball to great effect. Due to Compound Eyes, Galvantula can afford to run Thunder, versus Thunderbolt. Here's an example of its power difference:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 193-228 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 191-226 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is with 91% accuracy, mind you. The secondary STAB, Bug Buzz is actually quite useful. Hitting the likes of Latias, Hoopa-Unbound, and Tyrantiar for solid damage. Bug Buzz even 2HKOes Tyranitar, so that's pretty cool if you ask me! Galvantula's role in the metagame is finding its way onto offensively orientated teams as an Electric-type attacker with a few unique perks. Sticky Web is, honestly, not that amazing in the current metagame, but it has its select uses and if your team can capitalize that, then you're in good hands.

However, Galvantula has some glaring flaws. Most notable its weaknesses, Stealth Rock being a problem, and how overall lackluster it truly is. Sticky Web is great and all, but removing it and even avoiding it is way too easy. It faces insane competition for a teamslot, and it's overall hard to justify using. Although it does have one of the most powerful Electric-type attacks, it also does not have perfect accuracy, nor does it work well versus Mega Charizard Y (Sun cuts Thunder's accuracy by a lot). It's very high risk, high reward as a Pokemon. The flaws it have should not be over-exaggerated, but I also can't underestimate them. Despite its numerous flaws, I feel that Galvantula has enough perks, a distinct niche in the current metagame, and the overall effectiveness to be ranked. C- Rank is where I would personally place it, but I can also see arguments for D Rank.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-264673855 - Versus bludz that shows Sticky Web being useful because Weavile is able to be outsped by Mega Pidgeot and KOed. Ended up sacking it on accident, but still showed it putting some work in.

I'm still testing and improving this team, but it showcases some underrated threats (namely Galvantula, Mega Pidgeot, and Sylveon.) that I have been quite liking. Maybe I'll make a post for Sylveon soon, but for now, I'd like to see Galvantula ranked.

Will provide more replays soon, I have to leave now and couldn't complete getting them. Hopefully one will demonstrate it a bit!

Oh my God I've been waiting for someone to say this. Galvantula should definitely be ranked. unfix covered most of the reasons, but another thing I've found useful is running HP Ice- it allows it to anti-lead stuff like Garchomp, Lando, etc. I'm currently running Sticky Web / Volt Switch / HP Ice / Thunder, but I'm thinking of removing Volt Switch for Bug Buzz as it hasn't helped. Definitely support this nomination. Bring Galvantula to C!

 

[cyberpunkbanana]

---> C+
Hi, just dropping by to say that Mega Houndoom should drop down a rank to C+. It has a bunch of common checks to the point where it's tough to find a balanced or stall build that Mega Doom really gives trouble. I think it rose to B- around the time Sableye stall was big (or was it B then? idk but doesn't matter too much) and that kind of stall isn't too big anymore. Even if you forgo Taunt for WoW there's still a large percentage of checks that dgf about getting burned. I mean even something like Torn-T could handle Mega Doom in a pinch. Add in the fact that people are more aware of Dark resists due to Hoopa-U's presence and I think Houndoom is just worse off in the current meta. I also think that it is much more along the lines of Pidgeot or Ampharos in terms of viability, if not worse. Sunny Day+Solarbeam sets aren't that bad tho they can lure some stuff.

I have to disagree with this nomination. After testing houndoom quite a bit, I've actually found it to be a very potent threat in this metagame. Besides the obvious reasoning that dark pulse spam is incredibly hard to switch into, something that has convinced me is the fact that stab sucker punch from even a zero attack naive houndoom is very useful priority to have. It surprises the hell out of would-be checks such as an alakazam (ohkos) and a weakened torn (AV torn has a chance to die after rocks, fireblast, and sucker). Factor in that houndoom pairs extremely well with bisharp in blowing through dark resists, and it seems to fit very well in the B rankings. It does face competition with hoopa and less so with weavile, however hoopa has the problem of being slow af and weavile hits on the physical side which has its advantages and disadvantages.

Obviously the dog requires a decent amount of team support to function, but its really not that terrible. Also, just because people are more aware of dark resists now doesn't make dark spam less threatening, its still hard to find good resists besides Tar.

 

[Martin]

As someone who has tried and tried again to get this thing to work well, I see literally zero reason why Galvantula should be in C. Seriously, this thing is currently unranked due to the combination of Sticky Web's impotency in the metagame, the fact that Shuckle is a better layer on virtually every team and the fact that Galvantula is the epitome of an outclassed Pokémon in the metagame. As an offensive electric, it is outclassed by Raikou - which is faster, bulkier and has the luxury of holding an item that isn't Focus Sash. Hell, its more powerful if it holds a Life Orb or Choice Specs, and its coverage and utility options are both easier to fit onto the set and more customisable to the team's needs - unlike Galvantula, which can't do jack sh*t with Volt Switch due to its lacking bulk and needs all of Thunder, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and HP Ice to not just lose v.s. lead X. As an offensive bug, you are much better off with Volcarona due to it having bulk, the ability to set up and access to reliable recovery. As a sticky web user, it is outclassed by Shuckle, which has the bulk to set it up multiple times throughout the match, can also set up rocks and has the luxury of holding either Mental Herb or Custap Berry.

It suffers from the fact that Sticky Web is basically worthless against balance and other slower builds such as bulky offense and semi-stall, which isn't very helpful even after you consider how offensive the meta is due to Hoopa-U, and it becomes literally dead weight v.s. any Fake Out lead. If I see a Galvantula and I have something like Mega Lopunny or rocks Infernape on the team, I will lead with it so that I can break its sash and KO it on the following turn, leaving the field webless and the opponent down 6:5.

The only reason to use this thing is role compression, as what you are doing with Galvantula is done better by other Pokémon outside of role compression. As a hazard layer, it suffers from suicide-lead-syndrome; as a result, if you carry Galvantula, you effectively have no choice but to run both Bisharp and a spinblocker in order for the webs to be retained as it can't set them up again v.s. a somewhat competent player. This means that using Galvantula is very restrictive towards teambuilding, as it leaves three slots open for you to use. (On a side note, if I were building the team, it would be filled by an FWG core.)

While I could see it in D at a stretch for its ability to perform role compression (although I have a lean towards unranked because Galvantula has Espeon syndrome), C is most certainly too big a stretch for such a mediocre pokemon.

 

[skies]

As someone who has tried and tried again to get this thing to work well, I see literally zero reason why Galvantula should be in C. Seriously, this thing is currently unranked due to the combination of Sticky Web's impotency in the metagame, the fact that Shuckle is a better layer on virtually every team and the fact that Galvantula is the epitome of an outclassed Pokémon in the metagame. As an offensive electric, it is outclassed by Raikou - which is faster, bulkier and has the luxury of holding an item that isn't Focus Sash. Hell, its more powerful if it holds a Life Orb or Choice Specs, and its coverage and utility options are both easier to fit onto the set and more customisable to the team's needs - unlike Galvantula, which can't do jack sh*t with Volt Switch due to its lacking bulk and needs all of Thunder, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and HP Ice to not just lose v.s. lead X. As an offensive bug, you are much better off with Volcarona due to it having bulk, the ability to set up and access to reliable recovery. As a sticky web user, it is outclassed by Shuckle, which has the bulk to set it up multiple times throughout the match, can also set up rocks and has the luxury of holding either Mental Herb or Custap Berry.

It suffers from the fact that Sticky Web is basically worthless against balance and other slower builds such as bulky offense and semi-stall, which isn't very helpful even after you consider how offensive the meta is due to Hoopa-U, and it becomes literally dead weight v.s. any Fake Out lead. If I see a Galvantula and I have something like Mega Lopunny or rocks Infernape on the team, I will lead with it so that I can break its sash and KO it on the following turn, leaving the field webless and the opponent down 6:5.

The only reason to use this thing is role compression, as what you are doing with Galvantula is done better by other Pokémon outside of role compression. As a hazard layer, it suffers from suicide-lead-syndrome; as a result, if you carry Galvantula, you effectively have no choice but to run both Bisharp and a spinblocker in order for the webs to be retained as it can't set them up again v.s. a somewhat competent player. This means that using Galvantula is very restrictive towards teambuilding, as it leaves three slots open for you to use. (On a side note, if I were building the team, it would be filled by an FWG core.)

While I could see it in D at a stretch for its ability to perform role compression (although I have a lean towards unranked because Galvantula has Espeon syndrome), C is most certainly too big a stretch for such a mediocre pokemon.

This post shows me your lack of knowledge as to how Galvantula works. You don't lead with it, nor do you have a Focus Sash. Ever. You bring it when it can be brought, hopefully set Sticky Web if you can, or just flat out attack. It's that simple. You're forgetting a big thing: Galvantula doesn't need Focus Blast to break Hippowdon. Having Energy Ball is actually a very nice perk!

Another thing I've seen is how people think that HP Ice is necessary. While it's nice, I find myself almost always using Energy Ball since you are going to be doing a lot to TankChomp, Lando-T, and Hippowdon anyways. You just won't be OHKOing the first and last one; and you miss out on 2HKOing the second one.

I will be getting to a computer in about uhh 3 hours I believe, and I'll begin to compile replays.

 

[bluegrass]

This post shows me your lack of knowledge as to how Galvantula works. You don't lead with it, nor do you have a Focus Sash. Ever. You bring it when it can be brought, hopefully set Sticky Web if you can, or just flat out attack. It's that simple. You're forgetting a big thing: Galvantula doesn't need Focus Blast to break Hippowdon. Having Energy Ball is actually a very nice perk!

Another thing I've seen is how people think that HP Ice is necessary. While it's nice, I find myself almost always using Energy Ball since you are going to be doing a lot to TankChomp, Lando-T, and Hippowdon anyways. You just won't be OHKOing the first and last one; and you miss out on 2HKOing the second one.

I will be getting to a computer in about uhh 3 hours I believe, and I'll begin to compile replays.

I don't think Galv deserves to be ranked. I could maybe see D if enough people are for it, but tbh Galv is pretty much outclassed by every other electric type you would use in OU. Sticky Web, even if your team isn't built around it, is just not enough of a justifiable niche to be ranked. So many OU pokemon don't give a fuck about it, and Bisharp and Serperior actually benefit from it. A lot of Mega Evolutions are safe from its effects the before they mega evolve, like Charizard-X, Mega Alt, Mega Gyarados, Mega Diancie, and Mega Metagross, and there are so many levitating or flying pokemon in OU.

On to Galv itself, having a secondary STAB in Bug Buzz is nice, but honestly I'd rather use something like Heliolisk if I wanted two STABs on my electric type. It has much better coverage, a sweet water immunity, and it outspeeds Keldeo. Neither of them hit the juicy 110 speed tier though, which Raikou, Thundurus, and Mega Manectric outspeed. Is a 91% accuracy Thunder even worth it?

252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 191-226 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Galv can't even be used as a pivot, due to his terrible bulk and weakness to stealth rock, and the fact you have to give up one of thunderbolt, energy ball, or hidden power ice to run volt switch. The most damning part in my eyes is the fact that you can't check Talonflame even without rocks up, which is one of the biggest perks to having a fast electric type on your team.

tl;dr Sticky Web isn't worth it most of the time, Galv is outclassed by other electric types, and it can't even check Talonflame.

This isn't an attack on the entire Sticky Web play style, just on Galvantula :)

 

[thesecondbest]

As someone who has tried and tried again to get this thing to work well, I see literally zero reason why Galvantula should be in C. Seriously, this thing is currently unranked due to the combination of Sticky Web's impotency in the metagame, the fact that Shuckle is a better layer on virtually every team and the fact that Galvantula is the epitome of an outclassed Pokémon in the metagame. As an offensive electric, it is outclassed by Raikou - which is faster, bulkier and has the luxury of holding an item that isn't Focus Sash. Hell, its more powerful if it holds a Life Orb or Choice Specs, and its coverage and utility options are both easier to fit onto the set and more customisable to the team's needs - unlike Galvantula, which can't do jack sh*t with Volt Switch due to its lacking bulk and needs all of Thunder, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and HP Ice to not just lose v.s. lead X. As an offensive bug, you are much better off with Volcarona due to it having bulk, the ability to set up and access to reliable recovery. As a sticky web user, it is outclassed by Shuckle, which has the bulk to set it up multiple times throughout the match, can also set up rocks and has the luxury of holding either Mental Herb or Custap Berry.

It suffers from the fact that Sticky Web is basically worthless against balance and other slower builds such as bulky offense and semi-stall, which isn't very helpful even after you consider how offensive the meta is due to Hoopa-U, and it becomes literally dead weight v.s. any Fake Out lead. If I see a Galvantula and I have something like Mega Lopunny or rocks Infernape on the team, I will lead with it so that I can break its sash and KO it on the following turn, leaving the field webless and the opponent down 6:5.

The only reason to use this thing is role compression, as what you are doing with Galvantula is done better by other Pokémon outside of role compression. As a hazard layer, it suffers from suicide-lead-syndrome; as a result, if you carry Galvantula, you effectively have no choice but to run both Bisharp and a spinblocker in order for the webs to be retained as it can't set them up again v.s. a somewhat competent player. This means that using Galvantula is very restrictive towards teambuilding, as it leaves three slots open for you to use. (On a side note, if I were building the team, it would be filled by an FWG core.)

While I could see it in D at a stretch for its ability to perform role compression (although I have a lean towards unranked because Galvantula has Espeon syndrome), C is most certainly too big a stretch for such a mediocre pokemon.

Imagine a Raikou that can deal more damage because it can run thunder, hit hippo and latis harder that with a hidden power, and if all else fails, throw down webs. Webs doesn't have to be a play style you know. Volcarona requires far more team support. Webs is actually trashed on way too much- offense is just as common as balance and galvantula can threaten most defoggers. And role compression is a legit reason to rank galv. If 2 a- mons are better than it, it can still go to C, and I don't see why it should not.

 

[AM]

The way you guys hype such a terrible mon to begin with just amazes me.

 

[Martin]

This post shows me your lack of knowledge as to how Galvantula works. You don't lead with it, nor do you have a Focus Sash. Ever. You bring it when it can be brought, hopefully set Sticky Web if you can, or just flat out attack. It's that simple. You're forgetting a big thing: Galvantula doesn't need Focus Blast to break Hippowdon. Having Energy Ball is actually a very nice perk!

Another thing I've seen is how people think that HP Ice is necessary. While it's nice, I find myself almost always using Energy Ball since you are going to be doing a lot to TankChomp, Lando-T, and Hippowdon anyways. You just won't be OHKOing the first and last one; and you miss out on 2HKOing the second one.

I will be getting to a computer in about uhh 3 hours I believe, and I'll begin to compile replays.

The reason that I said Sash is necessary is because, personally, I have never seen LO Galv actually accomplish anything that couldn't have been done by Sash. Maybe you have, but I haven't myself. What always happens from my experience is that it gets off an attack or two, maybe webs if it gets lucky, and dies against anything other than passively-oriented builds (which offense kinda rips through anyway - with or without Galvantula). I just mentioned HP Ice in my post as it allows it to accomplish its job more effectively (beats chomper and means that Lando doesn't use you as setup fodder), but personally I wouldn't ever use it on a serious team as, like you mentioned, it benefits way more from Energy Ball (which Hippo can actually stall out vs. sash variants, which is basically the only use I've found for LO v.s balance as of yet - although it just dies v.s. anything faster that can get in before its webs go up or is levitating/flying).

The lead scenario I used was because Galvantula is going to have a hard time setting up webs if it doesn't lead. If you don't lead with Galv, it gets flawed by VoltTurning moves, Healing Wish/Memento or any other way of grabbing momentum, as it means you can get into a faster 'mon to ruin its day, as well as rocks turning any hit it may be able to just about take into a move it can't take (seriously, its really difficult to get this thing in on anything other than a faint or a slow VoltTurn.

I have nothing against it being in D. I misread the post and thought you had said C, but I've just looked at it again and saw it said C-. That was why I was so adamant about it tbh. Sorry about that XD. I could see C-, but I personally think D would be better as it does need a lot of support to function (iirc, assuming you use the LO set that you are using for your reasoning, it needs an entire team built around it to both retain its webs and give it safe ways of getting onto the field) and I really can't see it above Chandy as its niche is just so small that it is not worth it on the vast majority of teams imho.

I don't think Galv deserves to be ranked. I could maybe see D if enough people are for it, but tbh Galv is pretty much outclassed by every other electric type you would use in OU. Sticky Web, even if your team isn't built around it, is just not enough of a justifiable niche to be ranked. So many OU pokemon don't give a fuck about it, and Bisharp and Serperior actually benefit from it. A lot of Mega Evolutions are safe from its effects the before they mega evolve, like Charizard-X, Mega Alt, Mega Gyarados, Mega Diancie, and Mega Metagross, and there are so many levitating or flying pokemon in OU.

On to Galv itself, having a secondary STAB in Bug Buzz is nice, but honestly I'd rather use something like Heliolisk if I wanted two STABs on my electric type. It has much better coverage, a sweet water immunity, and it outspeeds Keldeo. Neither of them hit the juicy 110 speed tier though, which Raikou, Thundurus, and Mega Manectric outspeed. Is a 91% accuracy Thunder even worth it?

252 SpA Life Orb Galvantula Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 191-226 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Galv can't even be used as a pivot, due to his terrible bulk and weakness to stealth rock, and the fact you have to give up one of thunderbolt, energy ball, or hidden power ice to run volt switch. The most damning part in my eyes is the fact that you can't check Talonflame even without rocks up, which is one of the biggest perks to having a fast electric type on your team.

tl;dr Sticky Web isn't worth it most of the time, Galv is outclassed by other electric types, and it can't even check Talonflame.

This isn't an attack on the entire Sticky Web play style, just on Galvantula :)

TBH, running Galv without using both STABs like the set you mentioned at the bottom of your post is definitely not worth it. Honestly, I'd never run either HP Ice or Volt Switch on a serious team. While I agree that an electric that loses to Talon is not a good sign, you have argubly missed more about Galv than I did in my first post.

Firstly, your comparison to Heliolisk is both unfair and a rather poor one. First, to cover unfair; Galvantula is a little more powerful than Heliolisk when it comes to the power behind its electric STAB. Galvantula's Thunder is 7.325622152% more powerful than Heliolisk's Thunderbolt is if you take Life Orb into account (its about the same if you don't) unless I performed the wrong calculation, and the Electric-type STAB is the one that they use the most. In addition, STAB Bug Buzz is more useful for Galvantula than STAB Hyper Voice is for Heliolisk as it allows for super effective coverage on stuff like Tangrowth as opposed to a neutral hit without having to resort to Hidden Power. Now, for the fact it is a poor comparison. If you were to take Galvantula into all of its separate roles like I did in my first post, it is outclassed in individual roles. If you take it as a unique role, which it is when all of its roles are combined, Galvantula and Heliolisk don't do the same thing for the team. Galvantula has the potential to support, but Heliolisk is just there to wallbreak. The power over other electrics (it isn't there v.s. specs Raikou) isn't worth the lost speed tier most of the time, but it fills a niche on some teams - which is why I have nothing against D.

Secondly, you don't necessarily lay the webs down every match. If you lead with it, it isn't necessarily so you can do lead webs. V.S. a lot of teams, it will be to get off a few strong hits and go down. If you don't lead with it, you are probably using balanced VoltTurn without Volt Switch on Galv (as it is awful). Galv lays sticky web in favorable matchups - not every game.
=======================================================================================================
Anyway, when I was looking for something to say "I can't see Galvantula above X" for, I noticed Smeargle was in D. All I have to say about that is this:

WHYYY?!

With the new Baton Pass clause, the only thing Smeargle can do is act as a suicide lead, and it is a bad suicide lead. Seriously, role compression is all well and good until you realise that it can't even do that effectively because of its mediocre speed and bulk and its susceptibility to Taunt. Sure; Magic Coat alleviates Taunt to an extent, but a misprediction means that Smeargle is down to its sash having not even layed a hazard down, and its not exactly hard to outpace a Smeargle or hit it with priority. If it runs Spore over Dark Void, it becomes switch-in fodder for grass-types; once something's asleep it becomes setup fodder as it lacks any way of stopping it unless it carries Endeavor, which means it needs to sacrifice either a hazard or Magic Coat. Overall, Smeargle is just... awful. It is so easy to abuse and is ruined by anything which is faster, has Fake Out, has priority, has a setup move or any combination of those (and, if it uses Spore, anything which is Grass-type). If I have ChestoRest Rotom-W, I'd lead with it, eat my Chesto Berry, break its sash and kill it before it does anything. It is honestly so easy to play around that it isn't even funny.

 

[skies]

The way you guys hype such a terrible mon to begin with just amazes me.

... but Galvantula isn't terrible. Just bad. Hence low rankings.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

I think when we get to the point where we have to discuss just how bad a nomination is, saying its not completely horrible, its just horrible!, that it might be a sign for us to move on.

Just how I see it.

 

[kumiko]

Update:

Mega Pidgeot C+ -> B-
Thundurus-Therian C+ -> B-
Mega Houndoom B- -> C+
Conkeldurr B- -> C+
Bronzong B- -> C+
Nidoking C- -> C+
Metagross C -> C+
Entei C -> C+
Hoopa-C B- -> C
Blissey C -> D
Cloyster D -> C-
Shedinja Unranked -> D
Pangoro C- -> D
Crobat Unranked -> D

Things that didn't move

Starapator
Rhyperior
Mega Ampharos
Mega Absol
Cofagrigus
Sylveon
Mega Camerupt
Krookodile
Mienshao
Sableye
Emboar
Diancie
Galvantula

New Discussion Slate:

Mega Altaria S -> A+
Mega Gyarados A+ -> A
Heatran A+ -> A
Mega Alakazam A -> A+
Weavile A -> A+
Starmie A -> A-
Smeargle D -> Unranked

 

[AM]

trc and BKC are being replaced by dice , sugarhigh , and Tesung for official ranking team.

Edit: Rank changes done

 

[p2]

: Yeah Weavile is great, it only has 1 consistent switch in on offense in Klefki, everything else dies to one of its coverage options or gets worn down really easily. Its rock weakness sucks, but hazard removal is common enough. Dark and Ice STABs are still the best things ever. idk what else to say but its still a really great mon and it thrives in the more offensive meta we have now. A+ is reasonable.

: I've been saying this for a while, and honestly, I don't think Starmie is that great anymore. Well, at the moment anyway. Its a frail Psychic type in a tier pretty much run by Dark types and 3/4 the best ones commonly run Pursuit. I feel that its offensive set completely lacks longevity, meaning it can only spin a very limited amount of times a game, while its defensive set is just so passive. It still does what it does though and its solid enough as its the most consistent spinner in the tier as Excadrill feels really mediocre as a spinner now, but whatever. It's definitely been affected by recent metagame trends (Weavile, Torn-T, Hoopa) a drop to A- really couldn't hurt.

: Nah, Tran is perfectly fine in A+. It fills a bunch of roles for teams and can be quite unpredictable. Its one of the more solid rock setters in the tier, its a nice scarfer, its a solid go-to Stallbreaker. It has awful weaknesses, but ground immunities aren't hard to come by in OU and there are plenty of Water resists available. It's still among the best mons in the tier and it blanket checks so much shit. It always seems underwhelming on paper, but its something that must always be taken into account when building because this thing punishes unprepared teams so much (I guess you can apply this for nearly anything in the tier, but its something that definitely holds true for Heatran). I'd keep it in A+, nothing much as changed for it and its still really good.

: PLEASE UNRANK THIS GARBAGE

give suicune to a- discussion point please :(