Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Anduril]

I was the one who submitted the Arcanine + Normal typing and SD on this slate, and I think that SD is maybe too good for this 'mon. I originally though that just the Normal-typing wasn't good enough for Arcanine, as its SR weakness and not-so-amazing stats would limit its use, but now I'm starting to think that anything with STAB E-Speed, a boosting move, and solid coverage options can be potentially overcentralizing. Removing SD would make Arcanine way less powerful, as its only boosting option would be Howl, but it'd still have its STAB E-Speed and great movepool.

So my suggestion is: If the Arcanine submission is deemed too broken, change it to just Arcanine + Fire/Normal Type

It still doesn't have the greatest attack stat and speed tier, and mach punch/aqua jet is a thing, and azumarill and conkeldurr can take a hit if necessary. It's definitely a great mon, but it's not broken.

 

[Tressed]

It still doesn't have the greatest attack stat and speed tier, and mach punch/aqua jet is a thing, and azumarill and conkeldurr can take a hit if necessary. It's definitely a great mon, but it's not broken.

?

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 399-472 (99.5 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 347-409 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Neither of these stop Arcanine at +2. Conk has to run an inferior EV spread for a chance to get OHKOed after rocks, while Azu just straight up dies. In either case, you can't actually get off an attack due to Extremepeed's higher priority bracket.

 

[Anduril]

?

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 399-472 (99.5 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 347-409 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Neither of these stop Arcanine at +2. Conk has to run an inferior EV spread for a chance to get OHKOed after rocks, while Azu just straight up dies. In either case, you can't actually get off an attack due to Extremepeed's higher priority bracket.

Wow, okay I didn't realize that it was that powerful. After doing some calcing (shoulda done this first) I found out that nothing can switch in without getting 2HKO'd with the appropriate move.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 247-292 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 231-273 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 212-251 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Slowbro: 199-234 (50.5 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Don't recall the M-Bro spread off the top of my head)

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 129-152 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

Everything else just dies. Of course you can revenge with a full health Excadrill, Mega Aerodactyl, or a Scarf Tyranitar, but those are going to be taking a ton from E-Speed (68-80% for Exca 60-70% for Aero, 44-52% for Tyranitar). So Arcanine would be a top-tier threat for sure, but one that I'd prefer not to add to OU. Sorry for not calcing before speaking, I feel really dumb now...

 

[G-Luke]

Ok. I'm personally not liking any of these pokes, but I guess I'll speak of them.

DDance Luxray : I always wanted Luxray to be OU, but just slapping on DDance just isn't gonna cut it. Its speed tier is lacking for a sweeper, its only good STAB does recoil, and it overall is outclassed. Sure it doesn't fuk bout status, but Intimidate is arguably the better ability to improve its bulk and force switches, so nah. Should of done what you have to Thundy-T. And give it Sucker Punch.

Thunderus-T electric/dark : Oh the forgotten Therian. I love Dark Electric, and is my 2nd fav submission. I personally see almost nothing wrong, barring its Awkward speed tier.

E-Killer Arcanine : I realise that Espeed is becoming the go to way of buffing shit, as there is currently 3 viable ones in OU. Unfortunately Arcanine might get the BOOT, but I'm still voting regardless.

Dragon/Ghost Mega Latios w/ Analytic : Ur really trying hard to be better than Latios r u? There has been speed attempts, Adaptable attempts. And now it tries to be like Gira. Sad.

And since when did Megagross run Hasty? I run jolly. Fuk slowbro.

 

[GnralLao]

Now that my summer job is over, it's finally time I discuss the present slate starting with Luxray.


Luxrayquaza + Dragon Dance: With a nice base 120 Atk stat, I initially thought it would be somewhat good, but the combination of sporting mediocre defense and speed stats really doesn't help it. Firstly, after one DD, Luxray is still outsped by those sitting at base 130 and above (not to mention Scarf users and anything with priority moves), which means they will need to be disposed of before it can attempt a sweep since most of them can KO Luxray after one DD without being damaged whatsoever:

Calcs

252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 408-480 (135.5 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Scarf Excadrill outspeeds it even if it's Adamant)

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 396-468 (131.5 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 259-306 (86 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed OHKO after SR and toxic/burn damage)

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 428-506 (142.1 - 168.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 82-97 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 265-313 (88 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 258-304 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 289-342 (96 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after toxic damage)

248 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 272-320 (90.3 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 464-548 (154.1 - 182%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 325-384 (107.9 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 282-333 (93.6 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 270-318 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

Secondly, some mons are bulky enough to withstand Luxray's power before OHKOing it:

Calcs

+1 252 Atk Guts Luxray Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 260-307 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Ice Fang OHKOes though...)
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 326-386 (108.3 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Guts Luxray Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 226-267 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

252 Atk Guts Luxray Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 169-199 (44.2 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Guts Luxray Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 316-372 (82.7 - 97.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (not every Luxray will carry Ice Fang...)
0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 360-426 (119.6 - 141.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Guts Luxray Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 173-204 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Luxray: 228-270 (75.7 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage

Finally, I feel like Luxray absolutely needs Guts for that extra damage output that'll help it perform its sweeping role better (which means it'll be easily worn down by its own status and Wild Charge recoil) because it would certainly be outclassed by other DDers and specifically Salamence as an Intimidating DDer since it has better stats across the board and we all know how Salamence is outclassed by pretty much every other DDer in OU for this role.

Anyway, that's all I have to say for now about Luxray (appart from the fact that it probably won't get my vote). I'll write about the others tomorrow/during the week.

 

[canno]

Dragon Dance Luxray: Dragon Dance seems kind of random, but ok. I don't think Dragon Dance is enough to make Luxray viable - its simply outclasses in the role of Dragon Dancing. Intimidate and Guts are cool abilities to help set-up, but its just too slow, not to mention Burn still hampers it because its main STAB have recoil on it, wearing it down very quickly. The only real merit I see to Dragon Dance Luxray is that it can't be paralyze, which would be a great asset except that Luxray is already slow even at +1. Overall I don't think Dragon Dance is enough.

Electric / Dark Thundurus-T: Electric / Dark is a very cool typing both offensively and defensively - for one, it can wall Bisharps that lack Low Kick. It's also really killer offensively - Dark and Electric pair with each other very well. It can probably use ether Nasty Plot or Agility - maybe even both, considering its STAB combo, although I'd run one or the other so I can fit HP Ice. It can also use a pivot set very well with Volt Switch shenanigans. Overall a cool Pokemon.

Fire / Normal Arcanine + Swords Dance: Broken. Not only does Arcanine have the bulk to set-up an SD, but it also has the power to destroy anything in its path with STAB ExtremeSpeed. Not only that, but its speed is just fast enough to outpace bulkmon that could potentially take an ESpeed and annihilate them with a Flare Blitz. Defensively it also gains an immunity to Ghost in exchange for a Fighting weakness, which isn't that note-worthy imho. To make matters worst, it can run shit like Wild Charge and Close Combat to bypass would-be answers such as Heatran and bulky waters (although even bulky waters don't want to take an ESpeed - +2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arcanine Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 207-244 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock). To top it all off, it's immune to burns, so you can't even cripple it that way. The best you can do is either Paralyze it (with something that doesn't instantly die) and hope for hax or toxic it and stall it out.

Dragon / Ghost Mega Latios + Analytic: This one is pretty cool, if a bit odd. Dragon / Ghost alone would give Mega Latios a nice niche as an offensive spinblocker - something that only Gengar can really do right now. Unlike Gengar though, Mega Latios actually has some bulk to it to go along its high power and speed, and some cool moves like Defog and Roost. I think it would of been better off with Levitate, but Analytic is cool too. Not much wants to switch into an Analytic boosted Draco Meteor except for Fairies. This one is probably my favorite, just because it gives us another cool spin blocker with an interesting type, and it makes Mega Latios good which is always nice. now to post a Mega Latias for the next slate to match this hehehe

 

[pika pal]

Before I go over these, am I the only one that feels Thundurus is more Dragonic and Luxray a better fit for Electric/Dark? This is purely flavor, not viability.

Fire/Normal Arcanine + SD: Not too bad. Factoring Intimidate, Arcanine is one of the bulkier Fire types in OU in terms finding set up chances at least. Might step him out of being the E-Rank answer whenever we get a ridiculously strong Steel or Fairy type added to the tier by actually giving him STAB on what is his best move. One thing that I have to credit is that STAB Extremespeed gives Arcanine a move that is not only strong, not only priority, but also a no drawback move: Flare Blitz and Wild Charge have Recoil, Close Combat has the defense drops (though these aren't as problematic with Priority), and Crunch is weak on a neutral target. Typing doesn't quite help defensively since the only Ghost type attacks in OU are paired with Focus Blast anyway, and it adds a Fighting Weakness as well. There's also the continued Hazard weakness to consider. Not quite sure this would put Arcanine too big in OU, but it's a pretty surprising improvement.

Luxray + DD: I can't muster too much excitement for this, which is a pity because I love Luxray. DD is a pretty nice buff, but Luxray's bulk is still pretty mediocre, and he doesn't have too much in the way of a Physical movepool, be it wide coverage or spammable STAB, the way other DD users do like Zard-X, Altaria, or even Mega T-Tar. Paralysis Immunity (not just T-Wave, but Paralysis in case of a stray Glare) is phenomenal for a DD sweeper (or any sweeper really), but Luxray's stuck in between issues with different abilites: It needs Guts to discourage Burn Spams (but the Scald damage will still wear him out over time), but without Intimidate setting up on anything but the most passive mons is almost impossible. Luxray's hard to stop with the typical Status means, but compared to other DD, he doesn't have the same "battering ram" momentum after that first boost.

Electric/Dark Thundurus: Interesting change, to say the least. Having access to a second STAB move besides HP is an immediate benefit for him, and allows the usage of Boltbeam or at least an alternate 2-move combo for Double Dance. One thing people noted is gaining a Ground and Spikes vulnerability. I don't think this is as bad as people think, though. Thundurus-T didn't beat a lot of OU Ground types as it were: Hippowdon could take HP Ice well; Excadrill didn't care too much about HP Ice and could smack with Rock Slide or even with Resisted Iron Head because of Thundy's low defenses; Lando-T and Gliscor are even less likely to switch in since HP Ice would be almost a guarantee now, and both are outsped without something like Lando-T's Scarf set, which would beat or exploit Thundurus anyway; The only ones he really loses out on are already somewhat niche stuff like Seismitoad, or he already lost to to begin with like Swampert (without Grass Knot). As for the hazard weakness, what should be considered is losing the SR weakness, since it takes at least 2 hazards (SR and 1 Layer of Spikes) to match the damage he took from SR alone, and he either threatens or can set up on Spike setters like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, or Klefki thanks to not fearing T-Wave like most offensive mons. So far probably my favorite of the bunch.

Dragon/Ghost Mega Latios + Analytic: Losing Spikes immunity is probably a bigger issue here than for Thundurus, since it's outright gaining ore hazard vulnerability rather than something of a trade-off. Not sure how useful Analytic would be to Mega Latios. Unlike the other fast Analytic user (Starmie), Latios has to rely more on raw power than coverage to force switches, though there are occasional mons like unboosted Serperior or +1 Volcarona that he can afford to underspeed and still nail. Losing Psyshock hurts fighting things like the Blobs, though Shadow Ball is a much more spammable STAB option than what it had before since it lacks a drop and isn't immediately stopped by Steels: Pursuit Trapping Bisharp doesn't quite like switching into this with Hazard support.

(Given 160 SpA since calc I used doesn't have Mega Latios)

252 SpA Analytic Latios Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 123-146 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latios Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 95-112 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 154-182 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

Min rolls would be an OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil, or 1 Round and a Layer of Spikes, if not just going for a straight 2HKO with Draco.

Defensively, it doesn't solve the weakness to Pursuit Trapping and such, but does allow Latios to Spin Block, being less exploitable by Reflect Type Starmie (who becomes weak to Shadow Ball) without being forced to Draco Meteor it. Also gains resistances to Bug, Poison, Fighting and Normal Immunity, at the cost of a Psychic neutrality now. All around, Latios makes out like a bandit in terms of defensive typing.

This one's all over the place, and at the very least would play very differently than base Latios, which is the main demotivator for it right now. Whether or not it's incentive enough to use is another matter, but it's different now at least.

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

Dragon Dance Luxray: I'm not impressed, to be honest. Sure, if allowed to get going, it can destroy an unprepared team, but it is still slow enough for certain unboosted threats to catch it at +1, and simply having Scarf Landorus-T makes it possible it revenge kill it with ease. Sure with Guts, it is basically immune to the drawbacks of burn, and its typing gives it an immunity to paralysis, but it is frail without intimidate, and it wears itself down very fast, guaranteeing that one meaningful hit will cut its sweep short. Not a bad submission, but just not up to par with the others.
Electric / Dark Thundurus-T: This is my favorite submission simply because that 101 speed tier means that he can just outspeed all of the base-100 cuties and hit them supereffectively (Except shaymin) with STABs because almost all of them are part Psychic type and the most viable one that isn't is a water type. Thundy-T gains a few ugly weaknesses, but he also loses a few uglier weaknesses, which rounds it out on the defensive side. Offensively, Electric/Dark has amazing coverage on top of being extremely unique. This definitely boosts Thundy-T's viability and takes him out of the shadow of Thundy-I. If only we could do the same with Torn-I...
Fire / Normal Arcanine + Swords Dance: There aren't any ghost types allowed in OU that can stop this thing from killing everything with Extremespeed. Even Jellicent, who resists Fire and is immune to Espeed is still 2HKO'd by a +2 Flare Blitz. However, it is not impossible to revenge kill. ScarfTar can kill it after taking an Extremespeed. Scarf Lando-T can also revenge kill it this way. However, having 2 not switch in checks doesn't mean that this isn't too strong. I'd probably vote for this if there are some reasonable answers to it.
Dragon / Ghost Mega Latios + Analytic: Definitely not Latios, but not really an obvious improvement either. I'd need to see more discussion on this.

 

[Salemance]

Before I go over these, am I the only one that feels Thundurus is more Dragonic and Luxray a better fit for Electric/Dark? This is purely flavor, not viability.

Fire/Normal Arcanine + SD: Not too bad. Factoring Intimidate, Arcanine is one of the bulkier Fire types in OU in terms finding set up chances at least. Might step him out of being the E-Rank answer whenever we get a ridiculously strong Steel or Fairy type added to the tier by actually giving him STAB on what is his best move. One thing that I have to credit is that STAB Extremespeed gives Arcanine a move that is not only strong, not only priority, but also a no drawback move: Flare Blitz and Wild Charge have Recoil, Close Combat has the defense drops (though these aren't as problematic with Priority), and Crunch is weak on a neutral target. Typing doesn't quite help defensively since the only Ghost type attacks in OU are paired with Focus Blast anyway, and it adds a Fighting Weakness as well. There's also the continued Hazard weakness to consider. Not quite sure this would put Arcanine too big in OU, but it's a pretty surprising improvement.

Luxray + DD: I can't muster too much excitement for this, which is a pity because I love Luxray. DD is a pretty nice buff, but Luxray's bulk is still pretty mediocre, and he doesn't have too much in the way of a Physical movepool, be it wide coverage or spammable STAB, the way other DD users do like Zard-X, Altaria, or even Mega T-Tar. Paralysis Immunity (not just T-Wave, but Paralysis in case of a stray Glare) is phenomenal for a DD sweeper (or any sweeper really), but Luxray's stuck in between issues with different abilites: It needs Guts to discourage Burn Spams (but the Scald damage will still wear him out over time), but without Intimidate setting up on anything but the most passive mons is almost impossible. Luxray's hard to stop with the typical Status means, but compared to other DD, he doesn't have the same "battering ram" momentum after that first boost.

Electric/Dark Thundurus: Interesting change, to say the least. Having access to a second STAB move besides HP is an immediate benefit for him, and allows the usage of Boltbeam or at least an alternate 2-move combo for Double Dance. One thing people noted is gaining a Ground and Spikes vulnerability. I don't think this is as bad as people think, though. Thundurus-T didn't beat a lot of OU Ground types as it were: Hippowdon could take HP Ice well; Excadrill didn't care too much about HP Ice and could smack with Rock Slide or even with Resisted Iron Head because of Thundy's low defenses; Lando-T and Gliscor are even less likely to switch in since HP Ice would be almost a guarantee now, and both are outsped without something like Lando-T's Scarf set, which would beat or exploit Thundurus anyway; The only ones he really loses out on are already somewhat niche stuff like Seismitoad, or he already lost to to begin with like Swampert (without Grass Knot). As for the hazard weakness, what should be considered is losing the SR weakness, since it takes at least 2 hazards (SR and 1 Layer of Spikes) to match the damage he took from SR alone, and he either threatens or can set up on Spike setters like Ferrothorn, Skarmory, or Klefki thanks to not fearing T-Wave like most offensive mons. So far probably my favorite of the bunch.

Dragon/Ghost Mega Latios + Analytic: Losing Spikes immunity is probably a bigger issue here than for Thundurus, since it's outright gaining ore hazard vulnerability rather than something of a trade-off. Not sure how useful Analytic would be to Mega Latios. Unlike the other fast Analytic user (Starmie), Latios has to rely more on raw power than coverage to force switches, though there are occasional mons like unboosted Serperior or +1 Volcarona that he can afford to underspeed and still nail. Losing Psyshock hurts fighting things like the Blobs, though Shadow Ball is a much more spammable STAB option than what it had before since it lacks a drop and isn't immediately stopped by Steels: Pursuit Trapping Bisharp doesn't quite like switching into this with Hazard support.

(Given 160 SpA since calc I used doesn't have Mega Latios)

252 SpA Analytic Latios Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 123-146 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latios Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 95-112 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 52 SpD Bisharp: 154-182 (56.8 - 67.1%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

Min rolls would be an OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil, or 1 Round and a Layer of Spikes, if not just going for a straight 2HKO with Draco.

Defensively, it doesn't solve the weakness to Pursuit Trapping and such, but does allow Latios to Spin Block, being less exploitable by Reflect Type Starmie (who becomes weak to Shadow Ball) without being forced to Draco Meteor it. Also gains resistances to Bug, Poison, Fighting and Normal Immunity, at the cost of a Psychic neutrality now. All around, Latios makes out like a bandit in terms of defensive typing.

This one's all over the place, and at the very least would play very differently than base Latios, which is the main demotivator for it right now. Whether or not it's incentive enough to use is another matter, but it's different now at least.

Oh yah, but tried Luxray as a Electric/Dark befor in the old thread so didnt try resubmitting that one (as even new STAB didnt fix a lot with it). Was fun tho but just done before so thought id try something else.

 

[GnralLao]

As promised, I'll now talk about the other submissions.


Thundurus-T + Electric/Dark-typing: I find this nomination pretty interesting. Getting STAB on Dark Pulse and losing only 1/8 of his max HP from SR come in pretty handy. I can already see a Scarfed set that could be quite efficient (now that his SR weakness is gone) and fun to use:

Thundurus-T @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn / Volt Switch

Thunderbolt and Dark Pulse are mandatory STABs. Focus Blast has nice coverage alongside Dark Pulse hitting everything bar Fairies, (Mega) Heracross and Toxicroak for neutral damage and helps it deal with Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Kyurem-B, Tyranitar and more. HP Ice can be used instead to obtain the infamous BoltBeam combo and deal with mons that are x4 weak to Ice or that resists all his other move like Garchomp, Landorus-T, Gliscor and others. For his last moveslot, either U-turn or Volt Switch could work to gain momentum and safely bring a teammate, but I personally prefer U-turn since it can be used on potential Ground-type switch-ins. Using a Choice Scarf alongside a Modest nature unables Thundurus-T to outspeed numerous fast threats (everything below 451 speed) while dealing a great amount of damage to them:

Calcs

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 442-522 (122.4 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Adamant Scarf Exca would've OHKO, but gets OHKOed first. Jolly variants outspeed and OHKOes him though...)

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 360-424 (100.8 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 384-452 (118.8 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (oooh look! A powerful Thunderbolt OHKOes Keldeo! But seriously, in a 1 vs 1 scenario, Specs Keldeo could mispredict a boosting set or whatever, so that's why I'm still showing this calc (Scarf Keldeo still OHKOes it though...))

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 288-338 (95.6 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR or one previous LO recoil, but Scarf variants can outspeed and OHKO it with Draco Meteor)

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 288-342 (95.6 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR ---> pretty darn cool!)

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Alakazam: 324-384 (129 - 152.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (watch out for MegaZam Tracing Volt Absorb!)

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 392-464 (151.3 - 179.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Starmie: 392-464 (121.3 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Thundy-T switches into Reflect Type:
252+ SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Starmie: 350-412 (108.3 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 412-488 (102.2 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if support variants are OHKOed, then Scarf variants are too, not mentioning they're also outsped by him)

However, with his new typing, he gains new weaknesses to Ground-, Fighting-, Bug- and Fairy-type moves, making it weak against key moves like Earthquake, Mach Punch and U-turn, and is now vulnerable to (Toxic) Spikes. With that said, Thundurus-T will only attack Earthquake users (or, at least, Ground-type moves users) if it gets a guaranteed KO against them to not put his own life at risk, Mach Punch has a really poor distribution (Breloom, Conkeldurr and Infernape being the only mons worth using in OU), Scarfed Thundy-T is faster than every legitimate U-turn users bar Scarf Lando-T, meaning it'll never get hit by U-turn unless he directly switches into one (which will never happen due to its frailness), and entry hazards didn't stopped some mons to become top threats due to the existence of spinners and defoggers, which would also be the case of Thundy-T (I'm not saying he'd be a top tier threat, but I'm pretty sure he'll do a great job in OU). Anyway, this will probably get my vote unless there's more convincing discussion about M-Latios.

Well, this took much longer than I expected, so I'm gonna leave it at that for today and I hope I'll be writing about the other two during the week. I'm back!

Anyway, onto the next candidate!

Arcanine + Fire/Normal-typing + Swords Dance: holy crap that thing looks scary strong! In all seriousness, after a single SD, Arcanine would be able to KO major OU threats (and less relevant ones) with ease due to Intimidate forcing switches, softening physical hits and making it easier to set up a SD. Being a Fire-type greatly helps it too as it won't be bothered by burns. In fact, it won't be that much bothered by paralysis too since its main weapon of destruction is Extreme Speed, which has a +2 priority, and that will still make it go first even against other priority users (unless it's another Extreme Speed user). The only mons that could stop Arcanine at +2 would be those that are faster than it, resistant/immune to Extreme Speed and that can OHKO it back: Bisharp with a Defiant boost (isn't realistic since Arcanine won't be switching into Bisharp anytime soon, but then again, Arcanine can mess up with it by using Extreme Speed instead to avoid its Sucker Punches), M-Diancie, Jolly/Scarf Excadrill, Hippowdon (not resistant to ES, but it can take a hit before OHKOing Arcanine with Earthquake) MegaGross, Gengar, Skarmory with Counter (not faster, but if Sturdy is intact, Skarm wins), Scarf T-Tar, M-Aerodactyl, Rotom-W (not resistant to ES, but it can take a hit after SR before OHKOing Arcanine with Hydro Pump), Kabutops and Omastar in the rain, Terrakion, both Unaware users (Arcanine learns Iron Tail and Solar Beam though...) and Scarf Tyrantrum. That's 16 mons from S to B- (I probably forgot some of them, but it's still a tiny portion of OU) with more or less specific sets that can stop this monster (not to mention there are basically no safe switch-ins to Arcanine after a SD). Also, since Arcanine is the fastest OU Extreme Speed user, it would therefore only be outsped by Fake Out users such as M-Lopunny and Infernape (if it chooses to carry it), which are both OHKOed by a +2 Extreme Speed. If you were wandering what set I was using for getting those results, here it is:

Arcanine @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat / Wild Charge

The top three moves are pretty self-explanatory. Close Combat gives it a way to deal with Heatran, and non-Scarfed T-Tar (and probably others, but I forgot them) while Wild Charge unables it to 2HKO M-Slowbro (Crunch is useless since all of its targets are already OHKOed/2HKOed by ES or FB). Final verdict: yeah, that thing is definitely broken :( .

 

[Dratios]

GnralLao keep in mind that you can run Modest on the Scarf set too- the power boost is pretty noticeable and it's really nice, allowing you to OHKO Mega Meta after rocks, etc.

 

[GnralLao]

GnralLao keep in mind that you can run Modest on the Scarf set too- the power boost is pretty noticeable and it's really nice, allowing you to OHKO Mega Meta after rocks, etc.

Hmmm, you're actually right. I didn't think about that. Considering that you're only outsped by Jolly Scarf Exca, Scarf Lando-T and Scarf Kyurem-B (the others being already problematic for the Timid variant), Modest should indeed be the nature to go with that set. Thanks for catching that! Editing. Edited!

 

[Froggyboy]

+ Dragon Dance:
Seems pretty mediocre to be honest, even with Intimidate your bulk is pretty meh, sure Guts is a nice status deterrent but if you ever do get burned, you are killing yourself even harder with Wild Charge recoil + burn damage each turn, or even LO, which Luxray needs otherwise it just doesn't hit hard enough.

+ Dark typing:
Not bad. Not only now do you serve as a soft check to things like Latias, getting a usable secondary STAB is pretty nice, and not being weak to Rocks is always nice, especially for a Scarfer or LO sweeper. Though with Fairies being more popular, not too sure how well this thing would do right now.

+ Normal Typing and Swords Dance:
Oh boy is this scary. Not only do you now have STAB E-Speed coming off of 110 Atk, you can now abuse Arcanine's good coverage combined with Swords Dance. And setting up shouldn't be too difficult even with a rocks weakness, as with Flash Fire you can set up on Fires, and with Intimidate, can possibly set up vs. weaker physical attackers.

 

[GnralLao]

Before I write my thoughts about our last candidate, I'd like to say that I'm sorry if my analyses have taken a lot space/posts, but my schedule has been weird during the last few days and lots of unexpected things happened, so I had to write them on and off from one day to the other. Next time, I'll try and write all my thoughts into a single post. Anyway, here's what I think about M-Latios:

M-Latios + Dragon/Ghost-typing + Analytic: well, that's a tough one to say the least. This seems like a nice way to differentiate it from its vanilla counterpart, unabling it to hit stronger on opposing switches/faster mons, become an offensive spinblocker while resisting both U-turn and Volt Switch. Speaking of spinblocking, that strategy won't work as much if your opponent has a Defogger instead to get rid of entry hazards. Let's see how well M-Latios would perform against them (using a CM + Roost + STABS set):

Calcs

252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 456-536 (151.4 - 178%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR or one previous LO recoil)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latios: 471-556 (156.4 - 184.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(winning the speed tie is all that matters here)

+1 252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 189-223 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 93-109 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- 53% chance to 3HKO
(even though that M-Scizor variant is rare, M-Latios still fares pretty well against it)

252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 396-468 (124.1 - 146.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latios: 398-471 (132.2 - 156.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(pretty much the same as with regular Latios)

252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Mew: 224-266 (55.4 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mew Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- 76.4% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Mew Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latios: 84-99 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(in return, Mew can only Taunt or burn M-Latios)

+1 252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 207-244 (62.1 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 72-85 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 93.9% chance to 4HKO
(Skarmory can Whirlwind it away, but that's about it)

+1 252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 189-223 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)
+1 252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 306-360 (79.8 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Latios: 90-108 (29.9 - 35.8%) -- 31.9% chance to 3HKO
(watch out for Toxic though...)

+1 252 SpA Mega Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 348-409 (82.2 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Latios: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(just don't switch into it and you'll be fine)

As you can see, M-Latios performs really well against most defoggers too.

Now that I'm already tired, instead of doing some research to answer my own questions I had in mind, I'm just gonna ask them here to spark a little discussion about M-Latios:

- Could pairing it with another potential Mega prove to be an effective strategy to lure some mons in particular? Which one would it be paired with? Which one would it lure?

- Could a slower/bulkier spread work effectively considering it sports nice defensive stats (80/100/120) and Analytic that will boost its SpAtk more consistently if it's slower? What would such spread look like? What would be its purpose?


Good night everyone! See ya tomorrow morning! (or should I say later today...)

 

[Isa Simple]

- Could a slower/bulkier spread work effectively considering it sports nice defensive stats (80/100/120) and Analytic that will boost its SpAtk more consistently if it's slower? What would such spread look like? What would be its purpose?

I mono attacking Sub CM set with max Physical bulk and Shadow Ball would be nice perhaps.
The potential boost of Analytic makes up for no LO a bit, so you would have more bulk than Latios and more power than Mega Latias. Also Shadow Ball is probably better than Psyshock on a mono attacker, and Stored Power takes more time to get going.

 

[GlassVeins]

I won't say that I regret voting for protean hydregion, but it surely is an absolute monster, as is kyu-n. I bring this up because I feel that Arcanine could be another OP monster we don't need. I also feel that M-latios is a far cooler buff, tbh. sounds like Gira-o but with worse defenses. my take on this:

Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse

Anyways, on to the others:

luxray+dd: tbh, this just isn't going to be enough IMO. Not enough power, and not enough SPEED!

Thundy-T I like this idea a lot. Dark typing is a really sweet typing for a mon with that s.atk, and it would rid him of that pesky rocks weakness.
I have more to say, but the computer lab i'm in is freezing cold, so i'm gonna wrap this up for now. It's good to be back!

 

[Dilasc]

Arcanine +Normal & Sword Dance feels like a better version of a mon we already added a while back. What was it... oh right, Defiant Entei!

I know it's a forbidden taboo to bring up past theorymons, but do we really want to just overshadow something else almost entirely.

Let's compare:

Over Arcanine, Entei has Sacred Fire and Stone Edge. Nifty, I guess.

Arcanine has Close Combat, STAB on Espeed, and the ability to control when it gets to +2. Why burn when you can outright kill?

I again apologize if this is against the rules, but I just can't help but notice.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Arcanine +Normal & Sword Dance feels like a better version of a mon we already added a while back. What was it... oh right, Defiant Entei!

I know it's a forbidden taboo to bring up past theorymons, but do we really want to just overshadow something else almost entirely.

Let's compare:

Over Arcanine, Entei has Sacred Fire and Stone Edge. Nifty, I guess.

Arcanine has Close Combat, STAB on Espeed, and the ability to control when it gets to +2. Why burn when you can outright kill?

I again apologize if this is against the rules, but I just can't help but notice.

The thing is, arcanine has stab, like you mentioned, and intimidate, meaning that setting up isn't difficult. It's also got an attack stat that's almost on par w/ arceus. It is almost as broken, imo, as Ekiller Arceus. And you can't even check it by out-prioritizing it, since it has the fastest Espeed in the tier, bar linoone, but, lol (speaking of which, scrappy linoone? y/n), if it runs a jolly nature. Entei creates pressure and is an animal if the opponent plays poorly, but it doesn't just choose "well, I think I'm gonna sweep now." Arcanine is stupid. Just plain stupid.

 

[Mega Slutbunny]

You know, the more I think about it, the better I feel about Ghost/Dragon M-Latios

That added ghost typing is actually pretty nifty. While it doesn't do anything to solve the pursuit weakness the Latis have, it gives M-Latios the ability to lure bulky psychics

Wall of calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 88+ SpD Celebi: 190-226 (47.1 - 56%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 242-288 (54.5 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 182-216 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 88+ SpD Celebi: 254-302 (63 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Slowbro: 192-229 (48.7 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Slowbro: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's a pretty big difference, shifting a 3HKO to a 2HKO, and this is without the Analytic boosts from switching.

I'd honestly even consider running two mega stones and choosing which pokemon to M-Evo depending on the battle, because non-mega Latios is also pretty self-sufficient in it's own right, and the Latiosite helps feign a Choice item, as well as reduce Knock-Off damage

You could probably run something like


Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate --> Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Roost/Defog

Alternatively, you could potentially use M-Latios' newfound immunity to Seismic toss to break stall

Something like


Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate --> Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball/Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Heal Block/Refresh Substitute

With Heal Block, you'll be able to force switches for fat mons who rely on recovery , and Analytic punishes those switches severely. Moves are a "pick your poison". Choose what you want to get walled by. Or just run Ice beam or any other special attacking move

Mega Latios seems like he has tons of potential, I'd like to see how he does

fuck protean hydreigon though

 

[JTD783]

Gonna give some quick thoughts:

Luxray + DD: This seemed promising when I first looked at it, but unfortunately I think it's cons still outweigh its pros. It has less speed than mega Tyranitar's DD set and will have trouble getting enough speed to really shine. Some DD'ers in OU can get around this by having the bulk/recovery to boost multiple times, but Luxray is too frail to succeed in a bulky DD role. It's still considerably strong and could be worth using on specifically-made teams but it will likely fall short too often.

Arcanine + Normal Typing and SD: Well, it's definitely threatening. I see it taking the role of either max/max in attack and speed for a purely offensive SD'er or a spread with enough speed for whatever and the rest in bulk. I think enough has been said about how dangerous this thing would be, but personally I'm not interested in seeing this in OU because it would force the meta into a playstyle that I don't think I'd enjoy. There's enough fat grounds and waters already, thank you. Oh yeah, it can't be willo'd as well. That sure sounds healthy for the meta.

Thundurus-T + Dark Typing: This seems promising. It gives it a better STAB to work with since the best it had previously was HP flying and removes the rock weakness. However, it's typing becomes much worse defensively and now has issues with both forms of spikes and the seldom-used sticky web. I think it makes for a more promising scarfer and a very cool double-dancer, but most of all I'm glad to see it with a real niche over its incarnate form. This would probably be my vote if it weren't for...

Mega Latios + Ghost Type and Analytic: As I mentioned with Thundurus, I really like this suggestion because it gives Mega Latios something different than the base form. It helps make up for the lack of the life orb with Analytic, making it much more difficult to find a switchin. Ghost typing gives it a better matchup versus the Pokemon that checked its base form and allots it several new resistances. I will probably be voting for this over Thundurus because this change doesn't really give it any negatives, aside from removing one or two arbitrary resistances. Besides, a purple Mega Latios makes a lot more sense as a ghost type, so there's the flavor argument for you.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

I just want to say, arcanine is basically bs. It's just too much. Its Espeed is, as I mentioned before, nearly as powerful as Ekiller Arceus, which is even considered incredible by ubers standards. Plus it has a useful ability and can't be burned. I love arcanine, but this is too much. Something like drought would be sick- it compliments morning sun, gets rid of its weakness to water, and gives it offensive presence as well as the above defensive boosts.

Lux is cool, but the flavor is kinda weird and it will still pretty much suck.

Latios is really weird. Like, tf? Analytic is cool, and it lets it spinblock well, but it's just... Weird. That typing just doesn't really make sense. How is Latios ghost-like? At all? Idk, maybe I'm alone here.

Thundy is the only one that I don't dislike in this slate, either because the others are outclassed or just weird. This one has awesome flavor as well as viability. The offensive typing is awesome for its sweet neutral coverage, which is practically unresisted in the entire meta, it pairs well with thundy T as an electric check and the other half of a voltturn core that works well against others of the same archetype, and the dark typing goes really well with both the whole djinn idea and just thundy T in particular. It doesn't sound like as crazy of a boost as the others, but it is honestly a REALLY good change. It gives it a niche which it really lacked before, and makes it really cool. This is what everyone should vote for, imo. It is the most viable yet balanced of the slate, and has the best flavor by FAR.

Just my thoughts, feel free to ignore them, tbh.

 

[Akumeoy]

You know, the more I think about it, the better I feel about Ghost/Dragon M-Latios

That added ghost typing is actually pretty nifty. While it doesn't do anything to solve the pursuit weakness the Latis have, it gives M-Latios the ability to lure bulky psychics

Wall of calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 88+ SpD Celebi: 190-226 (47.1 - 56%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 242-288 (54.5 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 182-216 (40.9 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 88+ SpD Celebi: 254-302 (63 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Slowbro: 192-229 (48.7 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Latios Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Slowbro: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's a pretty big difference, shifting a 3HKO to a 2HKO, and this is without the Analytic boosts from switching.

I'd honestly even consider running two mega stones and choosing which pokemon to M-Evo depending on the battle, because non-mega Latios is also pretty self-sufficient in it's own right, and the Latiosite helps feign a Choice item, as well as reduce Knock-Off damage

You could probably run something like

View attachment 48712
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate --> Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Roost/Defog

Alternatively, you could potentially use M-Latios' newfound immunity to Seismic toss to break stall

Something like

View attachment 48711
Latios (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate --> Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball/Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Heal Block/Refresh

With Heal Block, you'll be able to force switches for fat mons who rely on recovery , and Analytic punishes those switches severely. Moves are a "pick your poison". Choose what you want to get walled by. Or just run Ice beam or any other special attacking move

Mega Latios seems like he has tons of potential, I'd like to see how he does

fuck protean hydreigon though

I think Substitute would be flatly superior to Refresh on the stallbreaker set, since precious little in Stall's toolbox can get status off on it before it sets up a Substitute anyways. It also gives Mega Latios another option against offense, whereas Refresh is pretty much only good against teams whose primary way of dealing with Mega Latios is status.

Really, the utility granted by a second spinblocker in OU with both defensive and offensive prowess makes me more inclined to vote for Ghost/Dragon + Analytic Mega Latios. It's an open general niche that could certainly use filling; it just didn't occur to me at first, because I rarely give spinblocking a thought during teambuilding.

 

[G-Luke]

The more I think about it, the more Mega Lat appeals to me.

Prior to this, I didn't know Arcanine's attack stat, but now that I know, Its BAF!!

I already stated why Luxray still sucks.

While I love Electric/Dark and I wonder why GF didn't make it, I think it goes against the forces of nature's theme and flavour, and if you changed this, you would have to change the typings of the other therians.

Mega Latios fills the niche of being a reliable offensive spinblocker in OU. With Gengar being the only other OU ghost type ( and having horrid bulk and defensive typing), Mega Lat won't have much competition. It can also switch in on Tentacruel and can beat Excadrill and Starmie 1v1. The only spinner that beats it 100% of the time is Donphan. Analyctic also makes it incredibly hard to switch into. So I take back what I said, Mega Latios gets my vote!

 

[heritage]

You all know what time it is!

Time for voting! Please remember to bold your votes so it makes it easier to add up!
Here are your options:

+ Dragon Dance (Credit to Salemance )

+ Electric / Dark typing (Credit to Dratios )

+ Fire / Normal typing and Swords Dance (Credit to Pappali the Piper )

+ Dragon / Ghost and Analytic

Here are the list of honorable mentions you can vote for!

I believe this list is correct...

- Infernape + Prankster
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Noivern + Nasty Plot
- Umbreon + Unaware
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Glalie + Dragon Dance
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Umbreon + Magic Bounce
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Jolteon + Spikes
- Ghost / Fighting Mega Banette + Drain Punch
- Camerupt + Desolate Land
- Thick Fat Gogoat

Have fun and good luck to the submissions!

(my vote)
Thundurus-T + Electric / Dark typing

Honorable Mention: Jolteon + Spikes

 

[Tressed]

Mega Latios + Dragon / Ghost and Analytic

Honorable Mention: Jolteon + Spikes