VGC Like the wind

[hublo]

Hi guys, what's up? I want to show you the team I'm using to get into the vgc format. The teambuilding stage started of with a very solid core: hydreigon and aegislash and I had in mind a specs set for hydra and an aegi set with wide guard. I had a weakness to landorus and I was looking for a water type, at the beginning rotom-wash, then replaced with suicune for tailwind support and breloom was added as a check to rotom-wash and kangaskhan. I picked the evergreen kangaskhan as my mega, supporting the team with fake out, in return she benefits a lot from tailwind. Choice scarf Landorus-T was chosen for speed control and for intimidate support

team at a glance​

team description​

Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 244 HP / 96 Atk / 12 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Fake Out

return is basic STAB, sucker punch for handy priority , PuP for setup and fake out to support the team (giving a free turn to hydra to fire off a draco or to setup tailwind with suicune; sometimes I wish I had protect to save the attack boosts gathered with PuP, but I'm not sure if it's worth giving up utility).

The moveset is pretty standard the EVs are not, so let me explain. The investiment in bulk allow me to survive a close combat from a -1 ( thanks to lando's intimidate) life orb jolly terrakion, a draco meteor from specs modest hydreigon. Evs in speed allow me to outspeed smeargle, the rest goes into attack. I tought that a very bulky spread would help kang to setup with PuP under tailwind, but the problem now is it really needs the attack boosts to get going.

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Tailwind

The set is directly taken from smogon strategy dex. Tailwind is the move that saves games, mandatory STAB scald is nice for fishing for burns and for hitting heatran (the pokemons that hit it super hard are hydra and lando but they are choice-locked, so very easy to take advantage of, and breloom needs the sash to kill it) and ice beam for OHKOing salamence and lando. Protect over snarl because I really need it alive to get clutch tailwinds off.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Protect

Basic moveset basic EV spread. Spore is both a blessing and a curse, since random safety goggles are a royal pain in the arse and now I am paranoid, lol XD. bullet seed to fight bulky waters like suicune and rotom-wash, mach punch and protect are self explanatory. It is generally a good idea to lead this with suicune, protect+tailwind first turn and then start a sleepover with spore, otherwise lead kang and breloom to shut down thundurus which annoys the team with t-wave, swagger, etc...

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power

Draco meteor and dark pulse for STABs, ground and fire for coverage against steels, flamethrower over fire blast because with the specs I went for accuracy.

The EV spread is basic, yet I would like something more fancy, but I don't know which benchmark I could use. I was thinking about being 3HKOed by modest zard-y heat wave if possible, also it could be tailored to survive some physical super-effective attacks courtesy of intimidate. I think it also should be able to outspeed base 80's, but I'm not really confident with the speed tiers in vgc, so do whatever, time to unleash your creativity!

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 188 HP / 244 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Remember when I was talking about ramdom safety goggles? Yeah, I once run into a breloom and I realized I have no ways to take it out, the original item was actually life orb. HP EVs allow me to take less damage from burns, 76 speed Evs to outspeed base111's under tailwind (read:thundurus) and the rest is dumped into sp.atk. king's shield is mandatory on aegislash and wide guard was literally the reason why I put it on my team. Shadow ball for nice STAB, flash cannon to counter fairies.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

No team is a real team if it doesn't have a landorus. jk, anyways adamant+choice for maximum offensive potential. earthquake is the move you would hardly ever click unless you have hydreigon on the field, but I'm not sure if the team can be re-arranged to include a levitator or a flying-type, anyways, it's not a big deal since most of the time you want to click rock slide and if you have hydreigon on the field dark pulse to flichhax your oppenent to oblivion

quick calc

the odds of flinching is 100-( 100%-70%)*(100%-20%)=44%, not sky-high but not bad

u-turn for pivoting and superpower for hydras, ferros, kangaskhans...

Threats​

Thundurus: I would consider running a quick guard terrakion, but then rotom-wash would have field day against my team. It can t-wave everything and just be a real bastard with taunt.

Gardevoir: aegi is the counter but if it faints then I have to guess whether it is heavily invested in bulk with trick room or is a faster variant

Sylveon: it's quite like gardevoir but I have no fear sporing it to death

Ferrothorn: preserve hydreigon

mega charizard-y: hits super-hard and is near impossible to switch in. usually something dies to give lando a clean switchin.

importable

Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
EVs: 244 HP / 96 Atk / 12 Def / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch
- Fake Out

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Tailwind

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power

Aegislash @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 192 HP / 240 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

replays

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-262267026
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-265372536
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-243530329
​

 

[Draconid997]

This is a really nice team :) love that kang spread and safety goggles aegislash
Just a few really nitpicky things:

- A spread on landorus-t of:
12 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 148 Spe (Adamant Nature) may be more optimal as it can survive bisharps +1 life orb sucker punch :)

- A suicune spread that i have seen a lot of usage is:
252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SpA / 116 SpD / 20 Spe
(Calm Nature)

Some damage calcs:

• +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Suicune: 223-263 (107.7 – 127%) — 3.9% chance to OHKO
• +1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Suicune: 177-208 (85.5 – 100.4%) — 6.3% chance to OHKO
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Suicune: 182-216 (87.9 – 104.3%) — 18.8% chance to OHKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Suicune: 140-166 (67.6 – 80.1%) — guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
• 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Suicune: 176-210 (85 – 101.4%) — 6.3% chance to OHKO
• 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Suicune: 116-138 (56 – 66.6%) — 35.2% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
• 252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 116+ SpD Suicune: 72-85 (34.7 – 41%) — guaranteed 4HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
• 100 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 168-200 (98.8 – 117.6%) — 93.8% chance to OHKO
• 100 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 156-184 (91.2 – 107.6%) — 43.8% chance to OHKO (Guaranteed after Double-Edge recoil).

244 HP may be better if using sitrus berry, as it will activate after a super fang (its an even number)

- You asked about a hydreigon spread, an interesting one thats more bulky and a little slower (you have tailwind though) is:

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 60 HP / 180 Def / 132 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
– Draco Meteor
– Dark Pulse
– Earth Power
– Flamethrower

This will outspeed positive base 70s like bisharp, as well as KOing 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile with flamethrower/earth power. It also survives adamant lando t's superpower :]

- Double-Edge may be more optimal over return on kangaskhan to do as much damage as you can under tailwind, its up to you though :) return/frustration gives you staying power but has smaller damage output. Also low kick/double-edge would give you more immediate power under tailwind. Running 176 Speed may also be useful on kangaskhan to outpace base 70s to nail bisharp before tailwind. Max attack would be good on a tailwind team, as although the bulk investment is nice, your team has two switch-ins to terrakion, so re-investing its defensive bulk back into Atk would be wise :] a good spread for under tailwind is:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
– Fake Out
– Double-Edge
– Low Kick
– Sucker Punch


Hope this helps :)

 

[Serapis]

EDIT: I really like your team as it currently is. Unlike most teams in the RMT section you don't really have any of the minor errors that I usually see. Because of that, I'm focusing around bringing options to your attention that you may not have thought of yourself. Point being, consider what I'm offering but remember that your team is just fine as it is. Consider your options and go with what you feel comfortable with.

Okay, so I have a decent bit to go over here. First, though, I would like to address the suggestions made by Draconoid997. I agree with all of it, especially the part about Kangaskhan, however on the note of Hydreigon you might want to keep it fast so that you're not quite as dependent on Tailwind, which I'll go into more in a bit. Before moving directly into the team members I have one last comment, that being I feel you should at least consider Assault Vest Landorus-T. Not only was it the set that won Worlds, but it also fits extremely well with a Tailwind oriented team. What truly brought on the suggestion wasn't either of those points though, it was your team's horrible EQ synergy. Your Landorus can Earthquake safely next to one of your Pokemon (Hydreigon). I mean, I get that Aeg has Wide Guard but that means you can't attack with one of your Pokemon each turn that you EQ. Since AV allows you to switch moves, that issue is greatly lessened. So, let's go down Pokemon by Pokemon!

I already stated my thoughts on this one in the intro. Tailwind Kang is best served by the Double Edge/Low Kick combination allowing it to hit for massive damage right off of the bat. Running a faster Jolly or Adamant set (252 Speed) would give you more to work with if you fail to get Tailwind up and the extra bulk is kinda wasted when Double Edge recoil goes and screws up all of your calcs so the extra speed is nice.

Here is where I have the most thoughts. Let's start with Tailwind. As it stands, your team is extremely dependent on setting up Tailwind in order to pull off a sweep. Failure to set up Tailwind or utilize it properly will almost certainly result in defeat against a skilled player. Because of this, I feel you should either make your team less reliant on Tailwind or give yourself a second/better way to set up Tailwind. To that end, my first thought was:

Talonflame effectively has Prankster Tailwind with Gale Wings, and it can move before even the fastest Thundurus/Whimsicott that would try to Taunt you. With a set of Brave Bird/Overheat or Flare Blitz/Tailwind/Protect with the Life Orb as the item you can almost guarantee getting Tailwind up. Furthermore, Talonflame pairs very well with Breloom partially because of the Tailwind support but also because of the double priority in Mach Punch and Brave Bird to eliminate threats before they can move. Even more than that, Talonflame gives you a Fire type STAB that you are currently lacking. Hydreigon is your only real answer to Ferrothorn at the moment, and having a better way to hit it would be nice. (It's also one of Breloom's worst nightmares)

However, with all that said, Suicune fills a very important role on your team as a bulky Water type and simply removing it would be a bad idea. In that regard I see two real choices.

1.) Keep Suicune. You're very Tailwind dependent as I've already said and having two Tailwind users would certainly help. Not only would it allow you to chose the one best suited to any specific matchup but bringing both could allow you to set up Tailwind two or even three times.

2.) Switch Suicune out for Milotic. Your team's main Tailwind attackers (one again with Hydreigon as the exception) are all physical and so Intimidate can be an issue. If you look at the three Intimidate users in the format (Landorus-T, Salamence, Arcanine) they all lose to Milotic. While you lose the secondary Tailwind, Competitive would be a great addition to your team that deters Intimidate and allows your physical sweepers to operate without fear of opposing Intimidate (well, less fear anyway).

So, those are the two options for the Suicune slot. So what about Talonflame? Well, that's much less cut and dry. Simply eyeballing your team I'd drop Aegislash for it, however Aegislash's Steel typing is incredibly valuable. The main reason I'd remove it in particular is because it isn't the biggest fan of Tailwind and subsequently being forced to take attacks in Blade form. With the Talonflame suggestion you should either drop whichever Pokemon you feel benefits your team the least or simply keep everything pretty much as it is now.

Breloom on a Tailwind team. Not terribly much to say here, everything is pretty simple. One thing I will mention is that you should consider Adamant over Jolly. I admit that Jolly is by far the more common nature, but take a look at it. What Pokemon does Jolly really let you outspeed? The answer is really only things creeping Bisharp like Rotom and Arcanine, things that you have a kinda meh matchup against anyway with Breloom but a good matchup against with the rest of your team. The damage increase allows you to make the most of your Tailwind turns when you can't Spore anything else and remember, once Tailwind goes up Jolly doesn't do anything that Adamant doesn't because even without the boosting nature you outspeed Mega-Alakazam/Mega-Aerodactyl and that one kid who thinks Infiltrator Ninjask is the bomb. With all of that said, this is a matter of personal preference; you should test both options and go with the one you find yourself more comfortable using.

This thing is almost easier to cover than Breloom. Yeah, there's the bulk v speed issue, but I already covered that. Besides that I don't see much of an issue with Hydreigon. I will point out that Choice Specs Volcarona can perform a similar role with additional speed and coverage on similar Pokemon (the main thing that Hydreigon can hit and Volc can't being Heatran, which Lando-T, Kang, Breloom and Suicune are happy to deal with). Just for show:

252 SpA Choice Specs Volcarona Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 171-202 (94.4 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcarona Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 187-222 (103.3 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You do lose some physical bulk, but that's what Intimidate is for. The 4x Rock weakness also sucks, but your team has Wide Guard and everything for that. Plus, Flame Body is hilarious against Kang. All that said, I have nothing against Hydreigon and I like it on your team. I merely mentioned Specs Volcarona because I doubt you even considered it and you may want to test it.

And now, Mr. Typing of the Year Award! Well, Aegislash is definitely good as a switch in for your team and it also does wall Breloom with Safety Goggles, but my issue is that I don't feel Aegislash can really perform on Tailwind teams. Aegislash's low speed is one of the things that makes it amazing by allowing it to make full use of Stance Change and while moving first allows it to get off quick damage, you often end up getting less overall damage because Aeg can't take a hit in Shield form. So, what do I suggest? Well, as always, if you're comfortable with it, keep it. However, there is another Pokemon that also has the Mr. Tying of the Year Award, being tied with Aegislash for the same number of resistances. What is this thing?

The big disadvantage here is the added Fighting weakness (which, if you add Volcarona, isn't actually much of an issue because you trade one weakness for another). You also lose Wide Guard, however I'm not 100% certain why your current team needs it. Honestly, if you keep Aegislash and don't add Volc I'd advocate for using a Substitute Aegislash set. Back on topic though. Magnezone has awesome Dual STABs and doesn't lose all of it's bulk just because Tailwind gets set up. It has similar switching ability to Aegislash, so that shouldn't me much of an issue either.

Assault Vest Landorus-T is the one change that I'd really fight for. While it cements your Tailwind dependence, I feel that with your team as it currently is fighting that wouldn't help you much. I believe you're best off trying to set up Tailwind in every game unless you have a specific reason not to, and your team can and should reflect that. The switching potential of AV Landorus is awesome, and that's just a bonus. Above all, the thing that I hate about Landorus-T is that both of it's STABs are difficult to use. For it's Flying STAB it has literally no moves to use (OG POWER HERB FLY LANDORUS) and for it's Ground STAB, considering it is usually Choiced, it can only lock itself in by either condemning it's teammates or having a team that was specifically built around it which yours isn't. At the moment, I would say that your Landorus-T has no reliable STAB move which is pretty terrible. AV's ability to switch between moves removes that entirely by allowing you to stop using Earthquake whenever you want without having to switch out and lose all of the momentum that you've built up until that point.

So, I do believe that's about everything. I hope the helped or was eye opening in some ways; good luck with your team and have a great day!

 

[Draconid997]

Talonflame effectively has Prankster Tailwind with Gale Wings, and it can move before even the fastest Thundurus/Whimsicott that would try to Taunt you.

Awesome rating Serapis :)
Just a quick note, standard adamant 4/252/252 talonflame underspeeds most whimsicott and timid max speed thundurus. Talonflame would have to be jolly to outpace both which wouldnt be the best nature for a tailwind set :/ however, whimsicott is quite rarely seen and most thundurus opt for a more bulky set with little speed which underspeeds talonflame, so if you choose to use talonflame i would recommend this spread:

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Def / 12 SpA / 176 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Overheat
- Tailwind
- Protect

- No recoil (aside from life orb) when targeting ferrothorn with overheat over flare blitz
- beats standard adamant 4/252/252 talonflame 1-on-1 (survives the hit and OHKOs back with Brave Bird (guaranteed after LO recoil)
- Outspeeds Kangaskhans sucker punch by one point
- if you want to run flare blitz, investing back the special attack into speed will allow you to outspeed max speed garchomp and max speed thundurus-therian etc

Hope we helped :)

 

[hublo]

Guys, thank you very much for the awesome rate :D now I'm on mobile I'll leave my toughts on the changes asap

 

[hublo]

okay, I'm here, thanks again for the rates!

all your suggestion are extremely helpful. I'm changing the spreads of my pokes,specifically kangaskhan, talonflame and breloom thanks for catching that.

about the changes: I'll try milotic over suicune, even if I'm not really sold on that. Indeed when I fought against them they turn out to be a liability if they don't receive a competitive boost but I've actually never ever used it so hopefully it's going to be a nice surprise :) . At this point I'm implementing talonflame and the optimal choice I think is getting rid of hydreigon, since they share a "similar" (this is a bit of a stretch, I know) role on the team, they offer fire coverage, they can check charizard y and they share a ground immunity. Magnezone is gonna replace aegislash but I have no idea on the set, maybe specs? Air ballon? finally I'll make landorus av but again its spread should look like?

Sorry but I'm not updating the RMT, I'm too lazy :P

 

[Draconid997]

okay, I'm here, thanks again for the rates!

all your suggestion are extremely helpful. I'm changing the spreads of my pokes,specifically kangaskhan, talonflame and breloom thanks for catching that.

about the changes: I'll try milotic over suicune, even if I'm not really sold on that. Indeed when I fought against them they turn out to be a liability if they don't receive a competitive boost but I've actually never ever used it so hopefully it's going to be a nice surprise :) . At this point I'm implementing talonflame and the optimal choice I think is getting rid of hydreigon, since they share a "similar" (this is a bit of a stretch, I know) role on the team, they offer fire coverage, they can check charizard y and they share a ground immunity. Magnezone is gonna replace aegislash but I have no idea on the set, maybe specs? Air ballon? finally I'll make landorus av but again its spread should look like?

Sorry but I'm not updating the RMT, I'm too lazy :P

Im not too sure about a magnezone spread (I'll leave it up to Serapis :) ), but an av landorus-t spread that does a lot of stuff is one scott glaza made that saw Aaron Traylor win the St Louis regional. Here it is:

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 140 HP / 140 Atk / 12 Def / 108 SpD / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
– Earthquake
– Rock Slide
– Superpower
– Knock Off

Here's what Aaron says it does (from the article 'Timequake!' on Nugget Bridge):

"140 Attack allows it to knock out Bisharp 15 out of 16 times, while the HP and Defense EVs let it take a Defiant-and-Life Orb-boosted Sucker Punch. The Special Defense EVs give it great survivability, as Landorus-T can take two Hyper Voices from Choice Specs Sylveon and a sun-boosted Overheat from Charizard. The Speed EVs allow it to outrun Jolly Tyranitar, Adamant Bisharp, and Speed creepers in that range."

Link to the article:
http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/timequake-1st-place-missouri-regionals-team/