Monotype Viability Rankings

[Dece1t]

Avalugg for B-rank.
The fact that this Pokemon is in S-rank is actually preposterous. Literally the only niche it has is that it has Rapid Spin...and it can't even spin on special attackers without basically sacrificing itself, assuming it can even survive the attack in the first place. Sure, it can survive boosted attacks from physical attackers, and this may seem impressive and all...until you consider that it can barely do enough damage to half of these Pokemon to warrant it being S-rank. Scizor sets up for days on it, as do a plethora of other Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados. Sure, you can forgo a coverage move to run Toxic, but that just makes Avalugg a sitting duck for even more threats in the metagame. Not to mention if the opposing Pokemon runs Substitute or is immune to Toxic, Avalugg is just set-up fodder.

When playing an Ice-monotype team, one of the first things the opposition will try to do is use Stealth Rock. Since Avalugg is the spinner on Ice-monotype, it will usually always be at 75% when it comes in. Because of this, it is actually a lot less impressive than it is made out to be. For example,
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 274-324 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even if Avalugg survives this attack and manages to KO Pinsir with Avalanche, it is unable to spin, leaving the Ice-monotype team to struggle with Rocks on their side of the field for the remainder of the game. Another calc that may seem impressive at first is the following:
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 164-195 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This seems amazing...until you realize Avalugg will be at 75% from Stealth Rock and cannot actually switch in to Iron Head. Even if the Ice-monotype user sacrifices a Pokemon and brings in Avalugg, it will be forced to Recover. One problem with this is that Iron Head has a 30% flinch chance, and the other problem is that Avalugg is so weak to Special attacks that if the Excadrill-user switches to a Special attacker, the Avalugg-user will be forced to either switch out or sacrifice Avalugg in order to Rapid Spin. Because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that Avalugg is the Rapid Spin-user on Ice-monotype teams, it cannot switch in to many physical attackers, meaning that it cannot truly 'counter' anything.

I personally cannot comprehend how this Pokemon is not in B-rank, let alone in S-rank. It is an option for Ice-monotype teams to use, but there is no way that it should be considered a staple of the playstyle. Not to mention....you're telling me Avalugg is a Pokemon that defines the metagame? Really? Avalugg? Really?????

I disagree with you. Avalugg is an amazing asset to ice, and it's THE most viable physical defensive wall ice has. For Mono, the ranks play different because it really depends on how much the mon itself benefits for the type, which in Avalugg's case, is a lot. Every Ice mon is weak to SR, with the exception of Pilo and Mamoswine, making Rapid Spin a highly viable niche. In a lot of cases, it's ice's only defense to a lot of threats, for example Mega Lopunny, Terrakion, Heracross, ect. As for Excadrill, ice just gets full blown swept by it, there isn't a lot it can do. Ice has a lot of situations where there isn't a lot of options, because it is a very challenging type to play with. This is why the tiering perspective is different than it is in OU, it depends on how the mon itself benefits the type. Avalugg benefits a shit ton.

 

[Anttya]

Avalugg for B-rank.
The fact that this Pokemon is in S-rank is actually preposterous. Literally the only niche it has is that it has Rapid Spin...and it can't even spin on special attackers without basically sacrificing itself, assuming it can even survive the attack in the first place. Sure, it can survive boosted attacks from physical attackers, and this may seem impressive and all...until you consider that it can barely do enough damage to half of these Pokemon to warrant it being S-rank. Scizor sets up for days on it, as do a plethora of other Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados. Sure, you can forgo a coverage move to run Toxic, but that just makes Avalugg a sitting duck for even more threats in the metagame. Not to mention if the opposing Pokemon runs Substitute or is immune to Toxic, Avalugg is just set-up fodder.

When playing an Ice-monotype team, one of the first things the opposition will try to do is use Stealth Rock. Since Avalugg is the spinner on Ice-monotype, it will usually always be at 75% when it comes in. Because of this, it is actually a lot less impressive than it is made out to be. For example,
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 274-324 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even if Avalugg survives this attack and manages to KO Pinsir with Avalanche, it is unable to spin, leaving the Ice-monotype team to struggle with Rocks on their side of the field for the remainder of the game. Another calc that may seem impressive at first is the following:
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 164-195 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This seems amazing...until you realize Avalugg will be at 75% from Stealth Rock and cannot actually switch in to Iron Head. Even if the Ice-monotype user sacrifices a Pokemon and brings in Avalugg, it will be forced to Recover. One problem with this is that Iron Head has a 30% flinch chance, and the other problem is that Avalugg is so weak to Special attacks that if the Excadrill-user switches to a Special attacker, the Avalugg-user will be forced to either switch out or sacrifice Avalugg in order to Rapid Spin. Because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that Avalugg is the Rapid Spin-user on Ice-monotype teams, it cannot switch in to many physical attackers, meaning that it cannot truly 'counter' anything.

I personally cannot comprehend how this Pokemon is not in B-rank, let alone in S-rank. It is an option for Ice-monotype teams to use, but there is no way that it should be considered a staple of the playstyle. Not to mention....you're telling me Avalugg is a Pokemon that defines the metagame? Really? Avalugg? Really?????

Avalugg is generally paired with Articuno who is able to Defog and tank a majority of Special moves safely. If the Stealth Rocker is Heatran, then the Ice user will either bring in Wallrien or Mamoswine as Rocks are set. That way, it can threaten it out, and potentially weaken the switch in to the point where its teammates can sweep. (Mamo sweeps once Ferrothorn / Skarmory is gone.) Toxic makes Avalugg set-up fodder, that is correct, but Roar is used more making it near impossible to set-up Physical attacks on it. You make good points with the calcs, however, nobody uses LO Excadrill on Steel as it is too slow to check fast Electric types. (5.5% usage). You are also forgetting that Pinsir will almost never have an opportunity to set up since everyone Pokemon has Ice STAB, and even then, Scarf Kyurem-B can tank a Quick Attack and Ice Beam it. You say Scizor can beat it, but the Ice user will have 1 of the 2 checks, Wallrein or Rotom-F. Yes, they might have to take Rocks damage but we're talking about one of the hardest types to use in the whole tier. They'll be able to either burn it, or do a huge chunk of damage with HP Fire. There is more to say, but I cannot be bothered to spend this much time explaining why the only viable Pokemon with Rapid Spin would be good on an Ice monotype.

I thank you for caring and wanting to contribute but unfortunately, you do not understand the tier enough. If you ever need help, come to the Monotype room on PS! or check the stats page before making near pointless calcs. http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html I'm sure, everyone will be glad to have you there.

Also, if you ever want to learn from skillful Ice users, please check out users: CrazyClown94 or SWL Boreas. They are excellent Ice users, and you'll make an excellent student.

Thank you, and have a nice day :)

 

[Acast]

Avalugg for B-rank.
The fact that this Pokemon is in S-rank is actually preposterous. Literally the only niche it has is that it has Rapid Spin...and it can't even spin on special attackers without basically sacrificing itself, assuming it can even survive the attack in the first place. Sure, it can survive boosted attacks from physical attackers, and this may seem impressive and all...until you consider that it can barely do enough damage to half of these Pokemon to warrant it being S-rank. Scizor sets up for days on it, as do a plethora of other Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados. Sure, you can forgo a coverage move to run Toxic, but that just makes Avalugg a sitting duck for even more threats in the metagame. Not to mention if the opposing Pokemon runs Substitute or is immune to Toxic, Avalugg is just set-up fodder.

When playing an Ice-monotype team, one of the first things the opposition will try to do is use Stealth Rock. Since Avalugg is the spinner on Ice-monotype, it will usually always be at 75% when it comes in. Because of this, it is actually a lot less impressive than it is made out to be. For example,
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 274-324 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Even if Avalugg survives this attack and manages to KO Pinsir with Avalanche, it is unable to spin, leaving the Ice-monotype team to struggle with Rocks on their side of the field for the remainder of the game. Another calc that may seem impressive at first is the following:
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 164-195 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This seems amazing...until you realize Avalugg will be at 75% from Stealth Rock and cannot actually switch in to Iron Head. Even if the Ice-monotype user sacrifices a Pokemon and brings in Avalugg, it will be forced to Recover. One problem with this is that Iron Head has a 30% flinch chance, and the other problem is that Avalugg is so weak to Special attacks that if the Excadrill-user switches to a Special attacker, the Avalugg-user will be forced to either switch out or sacrifice Avalugg in order to Rapid Spin. Because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that Avalugg is the Rapid Spin-user on Ice-monotype teams, it cannot switch in to many physical attackers, meaning that it cannot truly 'counter' anything.

I personally cannot comprehend how this Pokemon is not in B-rank, let alone in S-rank. It is an option for Ice-monotype teams to use, but there is no way that it should be considered a staple of the playstyle. Not to mention....you're telling me Avalugg is a Pokemon that defines the metagame? Really? Avalugg? Really?????

I see where you're coming from, but there is no way I would put Avalugg lower than A rank. It is honestly Ice's only viable way of getting rid of Stealth Rock unless you want to mess around with Defog Articuno. That in and of itself is enough to define Ice's place in the metagame. Without Avalugg, Hyper Offensive Ice would literally be the only viable option, because applying enough pressure to prevent rocks going up would be the only reasonable way of keeping the hazards off the field.

Avalugg may not define the entire metagame, but it certainly defines Ice teams, which is at least enough to place it as an A rank Ice pokemon. I would never consider putting it lower than that.

TL;DR If everyone really thinks S is too high, just compromise and place it at A rank. It's way too valuable for B rank.

EDIT: Anttya sniping me and telling it like it is. That is why she runs this thread.

 

[Chleg]

Slowking for B/A Rank. (For Water)

Explanation: Slowking has a niche of being 3HKO'd by Venusaur with Assault Vest and able to 2HKO with Psychic or remove with Future Sight. Slowking also has the ability to learn powerful Fire moves, useful for removing Pokemon that resist Psychic like Ferrothorn, Celebi and Shiftry. It's ability Regenerator is especially useful for constantly restoring health without the use of Slack Off, most notably most useful to take another hit from Mega Venusaur. With Assault Vest, Slowking can be a threat to a lot of Grass teams if used correctly. However, Slowking is not useless in the rest of the matchups with its overall SpDef being incredible and still be able to regenerate health with its ability. However, its typing makes it weak to Dark moves, most notably Knock Off and Pursuit. Additionally, its speed is dreadful which makes it easy for super effective Physical moves or extremely powerful Special moves to force Slowking out.

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Fire Blast

Set Details: Slowking's most useful move is Psychic/Psyshock. Psychic is more useful for its extra damage to dish out on to Mega Venusaur since most Venusaurs are defensive. However, Psyshock can also be used to dent Cradily or other SpDef walls. Scald is nice for a reliable spammable move and a chance to burn which is always helpful. Future Sight is used to force out Venusaur and retaliate the opposing Pokemon switching in with Fire Blast or even a free switch in into a Pokemon. Fire Blast as said before is to force out Venusaur with Future Sight and if possible, remove it with Fire Blast. However, Power Gem can also be used to take out Mega Charizard Y or Ice Beam to dent Flying types in general. If you have lots of trouble having a match up with other Water teams, you can also run Grass Knot on Slowking if needed.

Why B/A rank: Slowking is a way of removing Mega Venusaur offensively without being dead weight to most other matchups.

 

[Thimo]

Shedinja for A rank [Ghost]

Explanation: Shedinja is a Pokémon that works well with Mega Sableye. The Core walls many pokemon together. Shedinja alone walls many Pokémon like Mega Gardevoir, Manaphy, Azumarill without Knock Off and many more. The ones I listed threathen Mega Sableye, what makes this Pokémon really viable on Ghost. Mega Sableye is usually used on Ghost so that makes Shedinja a good Pokémon. Hazards and Status are good against Shedinja, but since Mega Sableye should be used with it, you got yourself a Check for those Pokémon.

Shedinja @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 21 SpD / 10 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Sneak

Set details: This should look like your average Shedinja set. Safety Goggles is the Item of choice because of the Sand and Hail Weather conditions. The Item also helps countering some lesser used Pokémon like Venomoth. The EV's are the to maximize the Attack Stat to make Shadow Sneak deal as much Damage. Lonely Nature decreases the Defense Stat, which helps against Ditto's but always scout their move first with Protect. 252+ Atk Shedinja Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Shedinja: 308-366 (102.6 - 122%) (Calculated with 0 Defense IV's and a Base 48 HP stat). 21 Special Defense IV's makes Porygon2 and Porygon-Z get an +1 Attack Boost when it comes in with Download, making the switch in to Mega Sableye much safer, if it happens to have Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball. The 10 Speed makes you underspeed Slowbro, so Baton Pass is slower and you can safely press Baton Pass without worrying of getting burned by a possible Scald coming your way. Will-O-Wisp burns opponent's switching in or staying in. The drop in Attack helps Mega Sableye switch in much safer. Protect is to scout moves. Baton Pass helps for Momentum and can let you switch in a good matchup against whatever switches in. Shadow Sneak is for priority and is your main attacking move.

Why A rank: Shedinja can fit on almost every Ghost team, mainly because Mega Sableye is used alot on Ghost, Mega Sableye is easy support for Shedinja, proving worthy for A rank.

 

[ShinyPoke25]

As a primary Mono-Bug type player and someone who doesn't look at this ranking thread much, I have a few questions to learn more.

Is Mega Pinsir really that amazing, and the best of the Bug megas? When I click on his name it sends me to a post about why he should be A rank. I wast just curious the reasons he is the best of the best. I would've assumed Mega Scizor to be right up there with him. You can argue that the ability to still use regular scizor lowers the viability of mega zor, but Mega Scizor is just so easy to setup with compared to M-Pinsir as both will be your primarily sweeper that will usually (not always of course) be saved towards the end of the game. I believe the x4 to fire is much easier to work around compared to the x4 rock weakness because of SR. Just want some more info on the topic, as I dont doubt M-Pinsir can be a S-rank bug, just curious of the reasons, and why M-Scizor isn't right there with him.

Another question I had is why Crustle is left off the list completely. Is it due to Armaldo completely outclassing it? I would think with the ability to run both Stealth Rocks and Spikes on a bug team, a unique trait on Bug, combined with a great ability with Sturdy would mean something. Plus, theres the Shell Smash set that, again, with Sturdy is pretty deadly and I think deserves atleast a C-D ranking for Crustle.

Lastly, I was curious why is Vivillion B rank. Volcarona is a must on Mono-Bug teams, and I just don't think stacking both of them on one team is smart. I think having a reliable sleep as basically the sole reason to use it on mono-bug just doesn't justify a B ranking, but I want to hear if i'm missing something. Please go easy on me i'm just trying to learn.

 

[Acast]

Shedinja for A rank [Ghost]

Explanation: Shedinja is a Pokémon that works well with Mega Sableye. The Core walls many pokemon together. Shedinja alone walls many Pokémon like Mega Gardevoir, Manaphy, Azumarill without Knock Off and many more. The ones I listed threathen Mega Sableye, what makes this Pokémon really viable on Ghost. Mega Sableye is usually used on Ghost so that makes Shedinja a good Pokémon. Hazards and Status are good against Shedinja, but since Mega Sableye should be used with it, you got yourself a Check for those Pokémon.

Shedinja @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 21 SpD / 10 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Sneak

Set details: This should look like your average Shedinja set. Safety Goggles is the Item of choice because of the Sand and Hail Weather conditions. The Item also helps countering some lesser used Pokémon like Venomoth. The EV's are the to maximize the Attack Stat to make Shadow Sneak deal as much Damage. Lonely Nature decreases the Defense Stat, which helps against Ditto's but always scout their move first with Protect. 252+ Atk Shedinja Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Shedinja: 308-366 (102.6 - 122%) (Calculated with 0 Defense IV's and a Base 48 HP stat). 21 Special Defense IV's makes Porygon2 and Porygon-Z get an +1 Attack Boost when it comes in with Download, making the switch in to Mega Sableye much safer, if it happens to have Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball. The 10 Speed makes you underspeed Slowbro, so Baton Pass is slower and you can safely press Baton Pass without worrying of getting burned by a possible Scald coming your way. Will-O-Wisp burns opponent's switching in or staying in. The drop in Attack helps Mega Sableye switch in much safer. Protect is to scout moves. Baton Pass helps for Momentum and can let you switch in a good matchup against whatever switches in. Shadow Sneak is for priority and is your main attacking move.

Why A rank: Shedinja can fit on almost every Ghost team, mainly because Mega Sableye is used alot on Ghost, Mega Sableye is easy support for Shedinja, proving worthy for A rank.

Thimo, you really are an insanely good battler, so please don't think that what I'm about to say is an insult towards you.

Just because you somehow find a way to make a dreadful pokemon work in competitive battling and somehow get all the way to #3 on the ladder using it, does not mean that particular pokemon is good in general. Trust me, I will be using Shedinja for myself now that you've brought this up, but there is no way Shedinja is A rank material. It forms an interesting core with Mega Sableye, but you need amazing prediction skills to be 100% certain that all status and hazards stay miles away from Shedinja. If you slip up even once, Shedinja is literal dead weight, especially since there is no viable way for Ghost teams to remove hazards once they're already on the field. Yes, I know you use Defog Drifblim along with Sableye+Shedinja, and it somehow works for you, but it just doesn't work for everyone else.

I'm sorry if this seems blunt. Again, I don't mean this as an insult to you at all. Just the fact that you're able to make these pokemon work is impressive, but there is no way I can support Shedinja for A rank. The absolute highest I would rank it is C, and I'm even hesitant to do that since Cofagrigus is down in D rank (btw, Cofa should be raised to C imo).

These rank definitions are a little over-quoted sometimes, but I think it's especially relevant in this case.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have S rank qualities, but need support (which can be easily given) in order for them to be successful. These Pokemon can play a role against most type matchups, but they may be hard walled by 1-2 types. However, these Pokemon are mostly used for one or two of their sets meaning that they can be predictable. These Pokemon influence the Metagame.

Shedinja only fulfills 1 of the qualities listed in this description. The part about support being easily given. There is no way Shedinja has "S rank qualities". As far as I know, it doesn't "play a role against most type matchups". I may be wrong about that, but I can't imagine Shedinja walling that many pokemon considering Fire, Dark, Ghost, and Rock moves are so common, and Flying moves are seen occasionally as well.

TL;DR Shedinja is a niche pokemon that forms a very interesting core with Mega Sableye that I will be using for myself in the near future to test it out. It has a use, but there is no way Shedinja influences the metagame, and therefore there is no way that it's suitable for A rank.

 

[Thimo]

Thimo, you really are an insanely good battler, so please don't think that what I'm about to say is an insult towards you.

Just because you somehow find a way to make a dreadful pokemon work in competitive battling and somehow get all the way to #3 on the ladder using it, does not mean that particular pokemon is good in general. Trust me, I will be using Shedinja for myself now that you've brought this up, but there is no way Shedinja is A rank material. It forms an interesting core with Mega Sableye, but you need amazing prediction skills to be 100% certain that all status and hazards stay miles away from Shedinja. If you slip up even once, Shedinja is literal dead weight, especially since there is no viable way for Ghost teams to remove hazards once they're already on the field. Yes, I know you use Defog Drifblim along with Sableye+Shedinja, and it somehow works for you, but it just doesn't work for everyone else.

I'm sorry if this seems blunt. Again, I don't mean this as an insult to you at all. Just the fact that you're able to make these pokemon work is impressive, but there is no way I can support Shedinja for A rank. The absolute highest I would rank it is C, and I'm even hesitant to do that since Cofagrigus is down in D rank (btw, Cofa should be raised to C imo).

These rank definitions are a little over-quoted sometimes, but I think it's especially relevant in this case.
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have S rank qualities, but need support (which can be easily given) in order for them to be successful. These Pokemon can play a role against most type matchups, but they may be hard walled by 1-2 types. However, these Pokemon are mostly used for one or two of their sets meaning that they can be predictable. These Pokemon influence the Metagame.

Shedinja only fulfills 1 of the qualities listed in this description. The part about support being easily given. There is no way Shedinja has "S rank qualities". As far as I know, it doesn't "play a role against most type matchups". I may be wrong about that, but I can't imagine Shedinja walling that many pokemon considering Fire, Dark, Ghost, and Rock moves are so common, and Flying moves are seen occasionally as well.

TL;DR Shedinja is a niche pokemon that forms a very interesting core with Mega Sableye that I will be using for myself in the near future to test it out. It has a use, but there is no way Shedinja influences the metagame, and therefore there is no way that it's suitable for A rank.

Then put it in B :p. I don't really care, aslong it's on there.

 

[Acast]

Then put it in B :p. I don't really care, aslong it's on there.

The absolute highest I would rank it is C, and I'm even hesitant to do that since Cofagrigus is down in D rank (btw, Cofa should be raised to C imo).

I appreciate the flexibility of your opinions, but would you be satisfied with C? :x (keeping in mind that my opinion isn't the final decision of course. Anttya and Sae get the final say)

 

[Vid]

Overall I'd Like to Spark a little discussion on Bisharp (Dark) Should it Stay A Rank or Move up to S. Overall this thought came to me on how Bisharp is considered a staple on majority of Dark teams. I'd aso noticed that this Pokemon helps a great deal with dark vs fairy Dark's worst matchup although it does not do much very fighting I feel as if the fairy matchup is harder for dark to beat than the fighting.

Let me Break Down Bisharp in a list fashion

Good Moves

Top 4 are most useful plus items that are useful with moves
Knock Off (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Iron Head (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Sword Dance (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Sucker Punch (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Pursuit (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf) Most viable on Choice Scarf
Taunt (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Stealth Rock (Focus Sash/ Leftovers? (focus sash is better)
Thunder Wave (Focus Sash)
Psycho Cut (Choice Scarf)

Good Items

Life Orb
Lum Berry
Black Glasses/Dread Plate (They do exact same thing so whichever one you think is cooler)
Focus Sash
Choice Scarf

Defiant

This Pokemon's Attack is raised by 2 for each of its stats that is lowered by a foe.
Defiant is useful vs
Sticky webs (Vs Bug Teams sometimes vs electric, normal, rock teams)
Intimidate users (EX: Lando-T Gyra etc)
Random drops (EX:Shadow Ball SpDef drops etc.)
Defog (punishes users for defogging EX: Zapdos/Latios/Latias/Mandibuzz/Skarmory/Mew etc.)

Arguments for S

Dark's best way to deal with fairy and it does well vs Bug as well.
Can Run 3 sets
You have to sometimes guess about item
After 1 SD it becomes a devastating late game cleaner
Helps vs sticky web teams (Bug teams and very rare normal)
It needs close to no support to function right
Good priority in Sucker Punch
Its "Staple on Dark"
Knock Off Punishes 2 S Rank Pokemon (P2, Chansey) by making them lose their Eviolite

Why A Rank

4 Times weak to Mach Punch
Pretty much useless vs fighting matchup
The stealth rock set is outclassed by Tyranitar
Faces competition from the faster Weavile

Overall I feel like this can go either way and will spark a very good discussion about where Bisharp should be ranked on Dark either A or S cause i feel it is a very solid Pokemon and is on the borderline between A and S.

 

[Acast]

As a primary Mono-Bug type player and someone who doesn't look at this ranking thread much, I have a few questions to learn more.

Is Mega Pinsir really that amazing, and the best of the Bug megas? When I click on his name it sends me to a post about why he should be A rank. I wast just curious the reasons he is the best of the best. I would've assumed Mega Scizor to be right up there with him. You can argue that the ability to still use regular scizor lowers the viability of mega zor, but Mega Scizor is just so easy to setup with compared to M-Pinsir as both will be your primarily sweeper that will usually (not always of course) be saved towards the end of the game. I believe the x4 to fire is much easier to work around compared to the x4 rock weakness because of SR. Just want some more info on the topic, as I dont doubt M-Pinsir can be a S-rank bug, just curious of the reasons, and why M-Scizor isn't right there with him.

Another question I had is why Crustle is left off the list completely. Is it due to Armaldo completely outclassing it? I would think with the ability to run both Stealth Rocks and Spikes on a bug team, a unique trait on Bug, combined with a great ability with Sturdy would mean something. Plus, theres the Shell Smash set that, again, with Sturdy is pretty deadly and I think deserves atleast a C-D ranking for Crustle.

Lastly, I was curious why is Vivillion B rank. Volcarona is a must on Mono-Bug teams, and I just don't think stacking both of them on one team is smart. I think having a reliable sleep as basically the sole reason to use it on mono-bug just doesn't justify a B ranking, but I want to hear if i'm missing something. Please go easy on me i'm just trying to learn.

Mega Scizor isn't as common on Bug teams mostly because regular Scizor is just as viable and mostly plays the same role, just with less bulk. Pinsir on the other hand is a dreadful pokemon if it isn't going to mega evolve, so you need it to be your mega if you want to take advantage of it at all. You can essentially have a powerful Bullet Punch user and powerful Flying type priority user if you go with Mega Pinsir, but you can only have the Bullet Punch user if you go with Mega Scizor. Mega Scizor is amazing, but it's better to have 2 amazing pokemon, even if one of those two is slightly less amazing.

Mega Heracross is a great mega as well, but it's not as common as Pinsir because it needs support to actually sweep. Mega Pinsir and Mega Scizor can sweep mostly on their own, but Mega Heracross needs Sticky Web support or a Baton Pass from Scolipede to outspeed anything.

Crustle is not on the list simply because no one has nominated it yet. It's not bad. It's just that no one has gotten around to writing something for it.

I had to go back to Vivillon's nomination post because I honestly couldn't remember why it was ranked so high. It's because it's the only pokemon that gets Sleep Powder and Compound Eyes besides Butterfree. Compound Eyes makes Sleep Powder 97.5% accurate, which is amazing for a sleep move. Hurricane becomes 91% accurate as well, so it has a very powerful STAB move to take advantage of once it Quiver Dances. It's still completely walled by Steel so I think B rank might be a bit too high for Vivillon in all honesty, but it is one of the best butterflies out there.

 

[Vid]

Venomoth D Rank (Poison) and Unlisted or D for Bug

Overall with the baton pass clause being implemented into monotype the Pokemon has lost its viability and other pokemon preform its niche better or this Pokemon does not fit on Poison and Bug Teams and it is not even worth running on monotype teams anymore.

Also reminder for Anttya to remove Charizard-X (Fire) from Viability ranking on fire because it is ban from Monotype

 

[Dece1t]

Overall I'd Like to Spark a little discussion on Bisharp (Dark) Should it Stay A Rank or Move up to S. Overall this thought came to me on how Bisharp is considered a staple on majority of Dark teams. I'd aso noticed that this Pokemon helps a great deal with dark vs fairy Dark's worst matchup although it does not do much very fighting I feel as if the fairy matchup is harder for dark to beat than the fighting.

Let me Break Down Bisharp in a list fashion

Good Moves

Top 4 are most useful plus items that are useful with moves
Knock Off (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Iron Head (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Sword Dance (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Sucker Punch (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Pursuit (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf) Most viable on Choice Scarf
Taunt (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Stealth Rock (Focus Sash/ Leftovers? (focus sash is better)
Thunder Wave (Focus Sash)
Psycho Cut (Choice Scarf)

Good Items

Life Orb
Lum Berry
Black Glasses/Dread Plate (They do exact same thing so whichever one you think is cooler)
Focus Sash
Choice Scarf

Defiant

This Pokemon's Attack is raised by 2 for each of its stats that is lowered by a foe.
Defiant is useful vs
Sticky webs (Vs Bug Teams sometimes vs electric, normal, rock teams)
Intimidate users (EX: Lando-T Gyra etc)
Random drops (EX:Shadow Ball SpDef drops etc.)
Defog (punishes users for defogging EX: Zapdos/Latios/Latias/Mandibuzz/Skarmory/Mew etc.)

Arguments for S

Dark's best way to deal with fairy and it does well vs Bug as well.
Can Run 3 sets
You have to sometimes guess about item
After 1 SD it becomes a devastating late game cleaner
Helps vs sticky web teams (Bug teams and very rare normal)
It needs close to no support to function right
Good priority in Sucker Punch
Its "Staple on Dark"
Knock Off Punishes 2 S Rank Pokemon (P2, Chansey) by making them lose their Eviolite

Why A Rank

4 Times weak to Mach Punch
Pretty much useless vs fighting matchup
The stealth rock set is outclassed by Tyranitar
Faces competition from the faster Weavile

Overall I feel like this can go either way and will spark a very good discussion about where Bisharp should be ranked on Dark either A or S cause i feel it is a very solid Pokemon and is on the borderline between A and S.

You make some rly good points vid, I too am pretty unsure where Bisharp lies. Going off of usage and the fact that it's dark's best defense to fairies, I wouldn't mind s rank tbh.

 

[Gnief Fiar]

As a primary Mono-Bug type player and someone who doesn't look at this ranking thread much, I have a few questions to learn more.

Is Mega Pinsir really that amazing, and the best of the Bug megas? When I click on his name it sends me to a post about why he should be A rank. I wast just curious the reasons he is the best of the best. I would've assumed Mega Scizor to be right up there with him. You can argue that the ability to still use regular scizor lowers the viability of mega zor, but Mega Scizor is just so easy to setup with compared to M-Pinsir as both will be your primarily sweeper that will usually (not always of course) be saved towards the end of the game. I believe the x4 to fire is much easier to work around compared to the x4 rock weakness because of SR. Just want some more info on the topic, as I dont doubt M-Pinsir can be a S-rank bug, just curious of the reasons, and why M-Scizor isn't right there with him.

Another question I had is why Crustle is left off the list completely. Is it due to Armaldo completely outclassing it? I would think with the ability to run both Stealth Rocks and Spikes on a bug team, a unique trait on Bug, combined with a great ability with Sturdy would mean something. Plus, theres the Shell Smash set that, again, with Sturdy is pretty deadly and I think deserves atleast a C-D ranking for Crustle.

Lastly, I was curious why is Vivillion B rank. Volcarona is a must on Mono-Bug teams, and I just don't think stacking both of them on one team is smart. I think having a reliable sleep as basically the sole reason to use it on mono-bug just doesn't justify a B ranking, but I want to hear if i'm missing something. Please go easy on me i'm just trying to learn.

Mega Pinsir is good. It can sweep Grass, as well as Fighting. While being the best of the Megas is debatable, it's certainly very strong. I personally use Mega Scizor which is also just as good. Of course, base Scizor can do the same jobs as Mega Scizor, but Mega Scizor has more bulk. In short, the two Megas are around an equal level of viability.

I believe the reason for Crustle being Unlisted at the moment is because no one's thought to make a post on it yet. It is outclassed by Armaldo for hazard setting, but it can use Shell Smash which is what most people use Crustle for.

Finally, as for Vivillon...uh...I'm not completely sure. It might be because of Sleep Powder+Quiver Dance, but in my eyes (my Compound Eyes, that is), it's definitely not B Rank.

 

[Wish9]

Overall I'd Like to Spark a little discussion on Bisharp (Dark) Should it Stay A Rank or Move up to S. Overall this thought came to me on how Bisharp is considered a staple on majority of Dark teams. I'd aso noticed that this Pokemon helps a great deal with dark vs fairy Dark's worst matchup although it does not do much very fighting I feel as if the fairy matchup is harder for dark to beat than the fighting.

Let me Break Down Bisharp in a list fashion

Good Moves

Top 4 are most useful plus items that are useful with moves
Knock Off (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Iron Head (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf)
Sword Dance (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Sucker Punch (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Pursuit (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash/Choice Scarf) Most viable on Choice Scarf
Taunt (Life Orb/ Dread Plate/Black Glasses/Lum Berry/Focus Sash)
Stealth Rock (Focus Sash/ Leftovers? (focus sash is better)
Thunder Wave (Focus Sash)
Psycho Cut (Choice Scarf)

Good Items

Life Orb
Lum Berry
Black Glasses/Dread Plate (They do exact same thing so whichever one you think is cooler)
Focus Sash
Choice Scarf

Defiant

This Pokemon's Attack is raised by 2 for each of its stats that is lowered by a foe.
Defiant is useful vs
Sticky webs (Vs Bug Teams sometimes vs electric, normal, rock teams)
Intimidate users (EX: Lando-T Gyra etc)
Random drops (EX:Shadow Ball SpDef drops etc.)
Defog (punishes users for defogging EX: Zapdos/Latios/Latias/Mandibuzz/Skarmory/Mew etc.)

Arguments for S

Dark's best way to deal with fairy and it does well vs Bug as well.
Can Run 3 sets
You have to sometimes guess about item
After 1 SD it becomes a devastating late game cleaner
Helps vs sticky web teams (Bug teams and very rare normal)
It needs close to no support to function right
Good priority in Sucker Punch
Its "Staple on Dark"
Knock Off Punishes 2 S Rank Pokemon (P2, Chansey) by making them lose their Eviolite

Why A Rank

4 Times weak to Mach Punch
Pretty much useless vs fighting matchup
The stealth rock set is outclassed by Tyranitar
Faces competition from the faster Weavile

Overall I feel like this can go either way and will spark a very good discussion about where Bisharp should be ranked on Dark either A or S cause i feel it is a very solid Pokemon and is on the borderline between A and S.

I completely agree with Bisharp rising to S rank since it IS the best check to Fairy that Dark has and you can't really make a serious Dark team without it most of the time. You may think Drapion is a good check to Fairy on paper. However not only does Drapion struggle to tank fairy moves but it also is incredibly weak, none of the fairies in particular aside from Whimsicott are even ohkoed while it takes a shit ton in return even with AV. Everything else I would like to say to support Bisharp rising has already been said so I'm not going to repeat anything. Meta Knight
Bisharp for S Rank!

 

[Thimo]

I appreciate the flexibility of your opinions, but would you be satisfied with C? :x (keeping in mind that my opinion isn't the final decision of course. Anttya and Sae get the final say)

C is too low in my opinion. You really underestimate the power of Shedinja. :x

 

[Wish9]

C is too low in my opinion. You really underestimate the power of Shedinja. :x

Thimo, I respect you as a fellow competitive battler, but Shedinja requires far too much support to be considered anywhere higher than C Rank. Sure, Mega Sableye can keep hazards off the field with Magic Bounce but one screw up can and will cost you the game. There's also the fact that no defoggers or spinners on Ghost leave Shedinja useless since hazards will stay on your side once they get set up. And trust me, I'm not underestimating Shedinja at all.

 

[Acast]

C is too low in my opinion. You really underestimate the power of Shedinja. :x

I can't support a pokemon that becomes useless the moment any kind of hazard is on the field. It seems to be too much of a liability to me, and the Sableye/Drifblim support core isn't a good enough reason for me to change my mind. Since we disagree, I'll just wait for Anttya or Sae's ruling on this one.

 

[thesecondbest]

Sheddy is huge as it walls some common things, like kingdra who is seeing a comeback on ss water, and it can wilowisp stuff and baton pass out of any bad matchup. That being said, it requires a lot of team support. It is certainly effective, but not splash able.

 

[Vid]

Magnezone(Steel) B --->A Rank
Overall Magnezone is a very great Pokemon on steel which is as type with very few hard hitting special attackers this Pokemon deserves a higher rank.

options it has on steel?

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flash Cannon
Specs is same set but with modest nature

Trapper set although not as useful in Monotype
On scarf replace hp ice with hp fire and change ability to magnet pull
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon

Why B-->A
Overall with steel's limited options in special attackers this is probably steel's best special attacker. The other purpose it serves is as a check to the dangerous Landrous-I with sturdy on choice specs and outspeeding it and killing it with choice scarf with hp ice. The trapping set provides a way to trap annoying Pokemon like klefiki and making it so types like fairy and steel don't get screen support. Overall this Pokemon is just too good of a special attacker on a type that has limited amounts of special attacker and also being able to steel's biggest threat. This Pokemon is just too valuable on steel team to be B rank. So Magnezone (Steel) B-->A Rank

 

[thesecondbest]

Or AV Mirror Coat Analytic Flash cannon Volt Switch and HP fire/ice, that set is cash imo
but yeah magnezone is one of the few steel special attackers, the other one being tran but this gets to pivot which is really nice when you have scizor. I think this isn't a bad nom per se

 

[scpinion]

An observation: I see a ton of suggestions for 'mons that should rise in the rankings, but very few for 'mons that should fall. Inflating these rankings dilutes their effectiveness.

I skim this thread once or twice a week to make sure I'm keeping up w/ how things are going and there have been 3-4 (mostly irrelevant) suggestions for drops (Volbeat, Gorebyss, Avalugg, maybe another?) since the massive shift w/ Zapdos/Gene/M-Gallade/CharX.

Zapdos is a metagame defining 'mon that influences most type's building. M-Gallade has a bigger effect on its own type, but is really good nonetheless. What 'mons have become less viable as a result of Zapdos and M-Gallade entering the tier?

For example, Mega-Medi is S-rank on Psychic. It is an awesome 'mon, but there is no way it warrants S-rank when it is generally considered to be outclassed by M-Garde and M-Gallade.
Where do you guys think Mega-Medi should fall to?

 

[Dece1t]

An observation: I see a ton of suggestions for 'mons that should rise in the rankings, but very few for 'mons that should fall. Inflating these rankings dilutes their effectiveness.

I skim this thread once or twice a week to make sure I'm keeping up w/ how things are going and there have been 3-4 (mostly irrelevant) suggestions for drops (Volbeat, Gorebyss, Avalugg, maybe another?) since the massive shift w/ Zapdos/Gene/M-Gallade/CharX.

Zapdos is a metagame defining 'mon that influences most type's building. M-Gallade has a bigger effect on its own type, but is really good nonetheless. What 'mons have become less viable as a result of Zapdos and M-Gallade entering the tier?

For example, Mega-Medi is S-rank on Psychic. It is an awesome 'mon, but there is no way it warrants S-rank when it is generally considered to be outclassed by M-Garde and M-Gallade.
Where do you guys think Mega-Medi should fall to?

Tbh, it's by no means outclassed. It's still an exceptional physical wallbreaker, compared to gallade who would usually need to set up first to do significant damage. I feel it should stay s ranked.

 

[Freeroamer]

Yeah I'm not gonna lie, I really don't think outside of exceptional circumstances any type should have more than 2 or 3 at most mons in S. Why does Psychic have 8 mons there for example ?_? I'll go through S and detail what I think should drop and maybe some rises later.

 

[Thimo]

I can't support a pokemon that becomes useless the moment any kind of hazard is on the field. It seems to be too much of a liability to me, and the Sableye/Drifblim support core isn't a good enough reason for me to change my mind. Since we disagree, I'll just wait for Anttya or Sae's ruling on this one.

Just saying, Mega Sableye is all the support it needs. Mega Sableye bounces hazards and status. In other words: The best Shedinja teammate.