Metagame NP: RU Stage 11: Dernière Danse (Medicham up to OU and Abomasnow and Slowking back in RU!)

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Molk

Godlike Usmash
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I have no issue with this suspect test of Venomoth. But....
The way this is phrased makes it sound like suspecting has become a scheduled undertaking we do rather than a necessity when something(s) become too far removed from the meta as a whole. And that this suspect was for some Pokemon, but there was no specific issue that caused the suspect. That Venomoth just became the target after a talk of who would be a likely one to try, not a needed one.

I suspect (no pun intended) that this was just phrased wrong and the test had reason to come about. Just wanted to voice how this sounded.... problematic.

But this is my concern: if we're suspecting for the sake of it and we have a history of banning everything tested then I'm afraid we will merely go on witch hunts to find the next broken Pokemon even if it's not broken, even if it's just the best or most notable Pokemon - which it could be without being broken.
Just wanted to let everybody know that this is not the case. Suspect testing has not become some sort of scheduled undertaking, and Venomoth was chosen for a test because it's been thought to be a legitimately problematic Pokemon in the metagame by people both in and outside of the council for a little while now, not just for the sake of it. In fact, i can 100% assure you that not a single Pokemon in the history of Gen 6/ORAS RU has been suspected just for the sake of a test, and the council, atomicllamas, and i, actually work very hard to make sure that this isn't the case and that the witch hunts that hilarious described don't happen, especially during relatively stable stages of the metagame. Sorry if the way the OP was worded sounded that way x.x.
 
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Venomoth is one of those weird Pokemon for me. It's pretty ridiculous on paper, but in practice it's a little bit less...magical is the word I guess. By all means though it's still a pretty ridiculous Pokemon for the RU tier as I've played. As long as Sleep Powder doesn't miss, it has a free turn to Quiver and already be at a hard to stop +1 in Sp.Att/Sp.Def/Speed. Offensively, there are Pokemon that I say hold Venomoth at bay, with the tier full of Pokemon like Delphox, Mega-Steelix, Houndoom, Sigilyph, Fletchinder is pretty cool, as well as a multitude of optional Choice Scarf users too that don't have much problems getting a OHKO on Venomoth, or having to have SR on the field to do so, if they aren't that strong. Defensively however, I dare say there's a little pool of switch in potential that gives Venomoth way too much leverage to do its job in the tier. Amoonguss does a fair job since immune to sleep powder, but sub sets can take advantage of it fairly easily to set up. Golbat can do a decent job too as long as it's not the target of sleep powder, it'll force it out as long as you remember your Brave Bird. Escavalier and Mega-Steelix can do a decent job, though they can easily be worn down due to their lack of recovery options. Luckily, most often times, just getting it out once is good enough if you can take back the momentum and keep it on.

Against good offensive teams that know how to keep momentum, I find Venomoth has some struggles, but with it's pretty great speed tier (90 is fairly great in this tier) managing a sleep and then quivering up usually leads to easy wins if it happens because most offensive types are frail, and post 1 Quiver, the offensive Pokemon capable of handling it shrinks by a large margin. With the pretty cool Poison/Bug typing, it has a lot of ease coming in to set up on the various bulky defensive types that becomes easy fodder for it. It's usually set dependent on what you cover for these sometimes, but Veno doesn't have too much of a hard time fighting Balanced or Defensive teams because it can use many common types to set up on. Though as a negative, there's several common offensive Pokemon types it can't use to set up on, that are all over the tier, including stuff with that carry auxiliary moves that are super effective against Bug types. Really I find that a lot of handling in Venomoth play comes from you almost needing to have something out at all times that can handle it in certain cases when it comes to the point it could come in and set up after a death, so you really can't give it that ability to do so. Realistically I think it's something that can be handled, but all it needs is one set up shot, and it can inflict devastating damage to teams with relative ease as a match has progressed, easily picking off some of the more weakened things, and some of the better checks being kept in fairly good health over the course of a match can be tough if it's required to be used. All in all, I'm supportive in seeing it gone.

As for the drops of Smeargle and Goth, don't have much to say about goth, especially with a mon like Houndoom and Skuntank seen fairly frequently at least for me, but it'll probably be a decent-ish....??? Pokemon. Smeargle is going to be interesting. Hazard stacking and awesome support moves? Spore, Webs, SR, lack of amazingly good hazard removers in this tier? Highly useful. Not to mention all the fun and weird gimmick sets I expect to see because of it's wide movepool.
 
FINALLY.
Venomoth
was
fucking
broke

Venomoth was a god. Its Ability was amazing, Had alright stats and was an amazing sweeper after 1 Quiver dance. This thing dropped to RU as a baton pass clause was implemented (RIP) but this thing was surprisingly good without having baton pass. The amazing thing about venomoth is it doesn't require MUCH support to sweep, although it can help to make sweeping easier. The thing is actually SURPRISINGLY paired with spikes users such as qwilfish, it might seem odd at first but it works. Mons such as dugtrio with access to rocks and memento also work well with veno. Just set up rocks and memento into venomoth and then set up a quiver. The thing does have its downside like its weakness to rocks and weakness before quiver but apart from that its pretty amazing. It can outspeed scarf tyrantrum after 1 quiver even with a modest nature. It can also outspeed scarf cham but needs timid nature (RIP). So yeah basically what im trying to say this thing is pretty unhealthy for the meta and i hipe it gets banned :(.

And for smeargle and goth.
The meta could use smeargle (RIP Geopass) to set up stuff and goth's probably gonna drop to PU (RIP)
 
My thoughts: Venomoth is just grossly over-powered in this meta. Tinted Lens powered Bug Buzz means almost the entire tier is taking at least neutral damage from this one move alone. This makes things worse when its powered up by Quiver Dance, which causes Moth to do even more damage to every thing. The only thing that resist it is Togekiss (who is set-up fodder), Flechinder (who is 4x weak to Stealth Rocks), Emboar, and Golbat (who both get put to sleep with Sleep Powder or handled by the other 'mons). Speaking of Sleep Powder, this move gives Moth the chance to both take a mon out of commission as well as give it much needed set up opportunity. The only things that are immune to Sleep Powder are useless as Tangrowth and Rotom-C gets wrecked by Bug Buzz, Amoonguss and Roselia are set up fodder, and non-AV Esca takes a hefty chunk with Bug Buzz. With the Standard Bug Buzz, Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance set, a lot of people like to run Roost or Sludge Bomb. I prefer Substitute because that leaves me me immune to status, even more set up opportunity, and just lets me steamroll through teams with Moth. After a bit of thought, I will definately be voting ban and hopefully I can get the reqs to ban this monster.
 
I'm so happy Venomoth is being suspect tested, as it honestly just makes this meta boring and uninteresting to play. Beating this thing is a huge hassle, as there are very few Pokemon that can counter this thing, and the checks are extremely limited as well. Even if your team has a Venomoth check, you're basically forced to switch in a sleep fodder first, which grants Venomoth an easy Quiver Dance. From what I've seen, there's not many viable checks to this thing, and considering you're almost forced to run one in order to not lose this thing, teambuilding is greatly restricted. Offense has sort of started to run rampant in the tier, as the best way to deal with Venomoth is to keep up strong offensive presence through doubles and momentum-grabbing moves, allowing you to safely get a check in. I'll probably go for reqs on this and I'll see if my thoughts change by then, but for now I'm leaning towards a ban.
 
Venomoth: The onle Veno Set I really had trouble with is Sub Venomoth. The Sub Set always forced me to sack half of my team to break the Sub and get out Fletch, leading to Venomoth switching out and waiting for a chance to start sweeping again. The other were not that hard for me to deal with because they are easily checked by Fletch and other priority attacks. Still, getting the checks out is always the biggest problem with any set. And if that doesn't happen fast enough you can prepare for a sweep. I think Venomoth is not too strong but most of its checks are mons that are just not that good in the metagame otherwise like Golbat or simply loose the ability to check it after a few Quiver Dances (maybe we should just start using Ambipom). So I'll vote for ban.

Gothitelle: Very useless. Withot Shadow Tag it's just... bad. I don't think Gothitelle will be any good in RU. I may have good bulk, but is outclassed by Uxie, as it also has no recovery move and the same typing. The only things I can see Gothitelle doing stallbreaking with Trick and Taunt or working as a TR mons with Competetive so it can punish leads or switch-ins like Qwilfish/Hitmontop or teams that are build round sticky web... It could possibly work as an offensive core with Emboar/Scafty. But I think it will overshadowed by other Psychic-types due to the limited offensive coverage and defensive potential.

Smeargle: Now not being able to Baton Pass setup-moves effectively, hazard-stacking will probably be it's only role. Given the bad stats and the circumstances, it is very predictable. It will be used as a lead with entry hazards, Spore and a Focus Sash. That makes Smeargle easy to set up on. Overcoat mons, Grass types or any mons that set up behind a Sub can use Smeargle for their advantage and put a lot of pressure on opponents right at the beginning. Not to mention priority and multi-hit moves (man...Ambi and Cinncino are so good). I think it will mostly be a wasted team slot, because it has no other purpose than stacking hazards. And there are better mons for stacking, that can do more than just that and don't die instantly after one/two attacks.
 
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Natural Talent

Don't die trying to live..
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Now That I have reqs. I just want to say :

Venomoth: Fuck this ugly bug. The amount of times i got swept by this makes me sad. It's really good on most teams and having it on your team usually makes the team better. Tinted Lens makes me cringe as it helps it beat what's supposed to check it. Life Orb sets denting teams and outright sweeping them or Sub QD sets slowing setting up on sleep turns and long term sweeping is just as good. Only thing that outright checks this bitch is Golbat, and that mon isn't to great tbh. Not really much to say about it since it does one thing really well and even though you know what it does you can't do anything about it. You over prepare for this mon and lose to a bunch of other stuff ._., it puts immense hassle on building as there is only a few "checks" to it and you probably need to carry at least 2 checks since one is bound to be slept if you aren't carrying Escavalier. Leaning Towards Ban.

Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz


Venomoth @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz


Gothitelle: Do I see a poor man's Meloetta? Only possible niche would be competitive to punish defogs i guess. Outclassed to be honest.

Gothitelle @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball / Shadow Ball
- Trick


Smeargle: This thing is really over centralizing. It being the one thing to revive webs is pretty dank though. It's versatility is amazing. Being able to set up entry hazards, Trick Room and can even carry endeavor or memento to be followed up by a set-up sweeper. It's an incredible support mon. It's Frail though, so it won't be used in battle long term and more of just being a lead. Just because it can use spore and lay up hazards makes it really good for the tier. Wouldn't say it's too good for the tier with hazard removal such as Flygon, Togetic, Hitmonlee and Golbat. Ambipom and Cincinno really bone it and whenever I see it i scream in terror.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 1
Serious Nature
- Spore
- Trick Room
- Dragon Rage
- Endeavor


Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Sticky Web / Spikes
- Magic Coat / Taunt / Memento
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
 
If I get the reqs, I'm definitely going to be voting ban. Since Venomoth has been around, every one of my teambuilding sessions has started with Escavalier. Unequivocally. If that's not overcentralisation, I don't know what is. Venomoth is now the single biggest threat in RU (one that came down from BL, not UU or BL2) thanks mainly to its great setup move and the great big shit it takes on resistances. There's barely even a debate on this, and for good reason. It needs to get gone.
 

Euphonos

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As much as I loved Venomoth's great potential (because I used it since BW UU), I'm thinking that the RU tier is somehow not ready to take on numerous Bug Buzz onslaughts, be it not very effective thanks to Tinted Lens. It seems like there should always be a Mega Steelix or a bulky Steel-type to absorb much punishment and KO it easily, or a Pokemon with various priority moves (Fletchinder's Gale Wings Acrobatics, Houndoom's somehow unreliable Sucker Punch, Mega Glalie's Ice Shard, among others) to take out Venomoth before it could even make a move. Sometimes, Sleep Powder can miss and can get away with the sweep, but that alone can't stop Venomoth from being unhealthy in this tier, so I'm leaning towards ban once I get the requirements.
 

QueenOfLuvdiscs

Tier 3 Audino sub
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
how am I supposed to get free wins if it gets banned? ;_;

The fact I'm having to use Bastiodon (the only counter I could actually find to it) on stall to just not lose to it is just disgusting. Its ability to set up most of the defensive pokemon or just put something slower to sleep to get a free boost along with having a pretty good defensive typing is honestly so good. Whilst this itself doesn't make it appear to be broken, the part that does is that it also gets access to Tinted Lens meaning its dual STAB has perfect coverage for the tier on top of all its already amazing positive traits. I personally would be voting banned as I really don't see how its healthy for to stay in RU.
 
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Mew2

Sex is overrated
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
how am I supposed to get free wins if it gets banned? ;_;

The fact I'm having to use Bastiodon (the only counter I could actually find to it) on stall to just not lose to it is just disgusting.
What about Golbat?

Imo Specially defensive Golbat is the best answer to Venomoth atm, getting 3HKO by the worst variant:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 130-153 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venomoth: 320-380 (113.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of course you can also run Quagsire, Cradily and Mega Audino, etc. but honestly I see them as "soft counters" because they lose to X or Y variant. Honestly saying that Stall auto loses to Venomoth is a lie and even if it was true is wouldn't be a strong point considering that Stall auto losses to another certain pokemon that has never been considered for a suspect test *cough* Exploud *cough*
 
considering that Stall auto losses to another certain pokemon that has never been considered for a suspect test *cough* Exploud *cough*
tehy r u alive?

Also, I wouldn't consider Mega Audino as a 'soft counter' for Venomoth, seeing as Veno can just set up all over it or use Substitute without minding Dgleams (unless you run that lordly offensive HWish ofc). And yes, Venomoth does have certain things that can deal with it such as Mega Camerupt, SpDef. Megalix, and Golbat (which all OHKO with STABs while the last one doesn't really mind substitute all thanks to Infiltrator) but it becomes shaky once hazards are up or said Pokemon are slightly worn down or hit by Sleep Powder.

I'm pretty sad Gothitelle is outclassed as a Psychic-type attacker. Competitive really had me hyped up. I find one off the biggest issues regarding Gothitelle is the lack of any sort of coverage to hit Dark-types super effectively, which Meloetta, Delphox, and Sigilyph have. I guess it could find some sort of niche in Trick Room in the case webs are up or as a Defog punisher. Other than that, I don't see any reason to use it.
 
I'm pretty sad Gothitelle is outclassed as a Psychic-type attacker. Competitive really had me hyped up. I find one off the biggest issues regarding Gothitelle is the lack of any sort of coverage to hit Dark-types super effectively, which Meloetta, Delphox, and Sigilyph have. I guess it could find some sort of niche in Trick Room in the case webs are up or as a Defog punisher. Other than that, I don't see any reason to use it.
hey you can always use mean look gothitelle with CM resto chesto, im not even joking iv'e tried it before, i didn't have much success with it but at least its something that gothitelle alone as a psychic type can do which Can work against stall but that would probably be rare for it to work with great success.

I think im more Pro Ban to venomoth for the suspect, venomoth amazing poke with great sweeping potential against most of the meta with a variety in moves and types of quiver dance sets it can run like mono attack Sub, or LO dual STABS, etc with tinted lens is amazing and so overwhelming if it sets up with few "counters" to reliably stop it.
 
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Veno don't deserve a suspect, just a quickban. The mindgame created by Sleep Powder with his good speed, decent bulk and tinted lens give him incredible amount of viable options in 4th slot. In fact, Veno doesn't even fit in the rank of broken but manageable threat. When he is on the field, the game is over.

'Scuse my ladies, you don't have good ears about french songs. Without an once of doubt Indila has no talent, next time chose a better song.
Not Kyo - Dernière Danse
Jacques Brel - La valse à mille temps (The danse with thousand steps)
 

QueenOfLuvdiscs

Tier 3 Audino sub
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
What about Golbat?

Imo Specially defensive Golbat is the best answer to Venomoth atm, getting 3HKO by the worst variant:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 130-153 (36.8 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Golbat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venomoth: 320-380 (113.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of course you can also run Quagsire, Cradily and Mega Audino, etc. but honestly I see them as "soft counters" because they lose to X or Y variant. Honestly saying that Stall auto loses to Venomoth is a lie and even if it was true is wouldn't be a strong point considering that Stall auto losses to another certain pokemon that has never been considered for a suspect test *cough* Exploud *cough*
You're also assuming with golbat, the defogger, will not be taking 25% every time it wants to do its thing, making the +1 sludge have a 95.3% to 2hko. Quagsire also get 2hko'd unless max spdef and since when is a weak fairy type the answer to a poison type? I'll admit Cradily may be able check it but it needs to be at full and use stone edge other buzz kills it.

I'll admit my wording may have been a bit exaggerated but your choice of pokemon as 'soft counters' is poor.

Edit: How tf is LO moth the worst set lol, that's the reason it just 2hkos everything.
 

Mew2

Sex is overrated
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Honestly I'm not going to enter the "what if rocks are in the field" because I always saw it as the most situational and weak argument plus it can always go both ways, it's not like Venomoth enjoys taking SR damage am I right? Now regarding my "poor" choice of soft counters: SpDef Quaggy and even Cradily are more viable that Bastidon lol and Mega Audino was clearly a mistake (I meant Mega Steelix, not sure why I said Audino).

Edit: How tf is LO moth the worst set lol, that's the reason it just 2hkos everything.
I never said that Lo is the worst set lmao, I said that it's the worst set FOR Golbat aka worst case scenario.
 

atomicllamas

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Honestly I'm not going to enter the "what if rocks are in the field" because I always saw it as the most situational and weak argument plus it can always go both ways, it's not like Venomoth enjoys taking SR damage am I right? Now regarding my "poor" choice of soft counters: SpDef Quaggy and even Cradily are more viable that Bastidon lol and Mega Audino was clearly a mistake (I meant Mega Steelix, not sure why I said Audino).


I never said that Lo is the worst set lmao, I said that it's the worst set FOR Golbat aka worst case scenario.
Golbat is a defogger, if rocks have been set up at all by the opposing team, Golbat has taken rocks damage, its very likely it is coming in at 75%, unless your opponent is letting Golbat come in, defog, and roost all for free (aka they aren't that great). But, sure, lets assume rocks are up on both sides, Moth switches in and has taken 25%, but it can still sleep the opponent and set up a quiver dance (or force a switch and QD, then sleep powder the next thing). Venomoth doesn't need to be at full health to sweep the opponent's team, it needs to be at x0% where x is the number of LO attacks it has to use in order to win the game. Golbat, on the other hand, needs every HP it can get in order to actually wall Venomoth.

As for the second thing I thought you were implying LO was the worst set as well, "Imo Specially defensive Golbat is the best answer to Venomoth atm, getting 3HKO by the worst variant:" doesn't quite read the way you intend it too .-.

The worst case scenario for Golbat would be a LO Psychic Venomoth that came in on Aromatisse or Alomomola, or w/e stall mon it can set up (since there are multiple) and hasn't used Sleep Powder, with either Psychic or Sludge Bomb and a 3 turn sleep Golbat still loses to Venomoth.

Honestly saying that Stall auto loses to Venomoth is a lie and even if it was true is wouldn't be a strong point considering that Stall auto losses to another certain pokemon that has never been considered for a suspect test *cough* Exploud *cough*
Yes, its a huge exaggeration to say stall "just loses" to Venomoth, because it doesn't but Moth isn't just being suspected for its performance against Stall, after one boost the only things capable of consistently revenge killing Moth are Fletchinder and Scarf Delphox, and the only counter to it that fits moderately well on Balance - Bulky Offense is Escavalier.

And can we cut it with the "stall auto loses to Exploud" bullshit, the only set of Exploud's that actually auto wins against stall is Work Up LO 3 attacks and no one runs that cause its outclassed by Choice Specs when facing anything except 6 passive mons (and Registeel probably still counters if it runs t-wave). Venomoth is absolutely better against stall than Specs Exploud is because you really only need to run 1 counter to Exploud + a second normal resist (depending on your counter and how many mons that give Exploud free turns you may not even need this), where as you need 2 counters to Venomoth unless you are running sleep talk Golbat or something as it can just put one to sleep and wear it down till it wins.
 

Mew2

Sex is overrated
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Venomoth is absolutely better against stall than Specs Exploud is because you really only need to run 1 counter to Exploud + a second normal resist
Please tell me 3 Exploud counters that are in the A/S ranks (I can only think of AV Meloetta who has no recovery and gets pursuit trapped by Doom/Tomb) and most of the normal type resists are easily trapped by Dugtrio. While Exploud doesn't exactly auto win against a well built stall team, he severely restricts team building for the after mentioned play style just like Venomoth.
 

atomicllamas

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Please tell me 3 Exploud counters that are in the A/S ranks (I can only think of AV Meloetta who has no recovery and gets pursuit trapped by Doom/Tomb) and most of the normal type resists are easily trapped by Dugtrio. While Exploud doesn't exactly auto win against a well built stall team, he severely restricts team building for the after mentioned play style just like Venomoth.
So my counters for Exploud have to be S/A rank for Exploud and yet you are using Golbat as your example of a Venomoth counter. Please go to the viability ranking thread and tell me where Golbat is ranked, and have a lovely day n_n.
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
Exploud has an obscene amount of counterplay, it's effectively neutered by Knock Off and will be limited to one kill max, if even that, if it takes a Toxic as it swaps into w/e. It's also prone to being worn down while being relatively easy to RK. The same cannot be said for Venomoth b/c a) it's immune to Toxic B) it can actually switch in on certain defensive mons and not get worn down too quickly because of its typing and access to roost and c) not any relatively faster, stronger mon can take it out b/c of Quiver Dance boosting its Speed. Venomoth is more difficult to deal with because it requires specific checks, while you can usually handle Exploud through indirect means in tandem with a sturdy normal resist. Saying Exploud is more difficult to handle, even for stall, is ludicrous. Venomoth clearly requires you to take the extra mile in order to beat it, whereas Exploud doesn't.
 

Mew2

Sex is overrated
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So my counters for Exploud have to be S/A rank for Exploud and yet you are using Golbat as your example of a Venomoth counter. Please go to the viability ranking thread and tell me where Golbat is ranked, and have a lovely day n_n.
I never said that Venomoth was balanced did I? I said that, like Venomoth, Exploud is a restrictive pokemon for stall. Honestly at this point I'm going to drop the argument because you obviously can't mention 3 viable Exploud counters because they simply don't exist.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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I never said that Venomoth was balanced did I? I said that, like Venomoth, Exploud is a restrictive pokemon for stall. Honestly at this point I'm going to drop the argument because you obviously can't mention 3 viable Exploud counters because they simply don't exist.
Cradily, Registeel, A well played Mega Steelix, SpD Virizion (ty based tewmew), Bronzong (heatproof if you want to super counter but lol), idk those are just ones I can think of off the top of my head. You never said Venomoth is balanced but you are under the incorrect impression that Venomoth is worse against stall than Exploud which is only the case if you don't understand counter play and only think about counters. Spirit's post above sums this up nicely. Exploud isn't ban worthy, nor is it even close to suspect worthy, and yes its a restrictive Pokemon for stall, I never disagreed with that, just not to the extent where its actually necessary for it to be looked into for a suspect test.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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Just got reqs so I suppose I'll make my opinion post on exploud venomoth. I think it says something when half of the ones I faced on ladder tried to set up on me turn 1 and it's still a threat (although I felt like the ladder definitely got better since the pangoro+moltres suspect tbh). It might not have a ton of setup opportunities vs offense, but it only needs one mon to be a massive problem that you always need to keep in mind, and it can almost steamroll bulkier teams. I don't wanna play a moth meta, it's manageable purely for really heavy offense and makes bulkier teams really hard to run. I don't see a reason to keep it around. That being said, if somebody comes up with some solid anti-ban arguments here I'd be willing to listen to them, because it definitely is possible to manage, and I feel like a lot of the sentiment comes from simply not enjoying playing against moth, because it's pretty much impossible. Oh and thanks for the team galbia.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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I wonder if what I have done is enough to vote, or have to keep fighting.
I do not understand how to calculate the B value XD.
And besides, points and / or coil come down over time?
You're fine, you have the required COIL of 2800 or greater, so you don't need to play any more games on that account. What you need to do now is wait until an identification thread is posted and post a screenshot there(I'd imagine that thread will be announced here when it happens.)

B value is a constant number established at the start of the test, in this case 9. You don't need to worry about it, all it does is affect how COIL is calculated.

ELO can decrease over time due to decay, but COIL should not decrease.
 
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